Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline jvuye  
#1 Posted : 23 May 2012 18:04:06(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
I have just spent a couple of days railfanning on the Gotthard line.
The weather wasn't too cooperative for great pictures...nevertheless I share some since they offer here and there ideas for train compositions and decoration.

An Am 843 in Immensee (at Zuger lake) with a short freight from Arth-Goldau
UserPostedImage

DB 185 110 from Olten with a 1300 tons coils train to Italy. From Erstfeldt on, she'll get the assistance of a little sister to bring the heavy load to Chiasso.UserPostedImage

Re 4/4 II 11194 with an InterRegio from Locarno to Bern and Basel
UserPostedImage

Re 620 047 and an empty freighter to Olten.
Note the catenary switching aggregate and the 4 languages "Do no cross" sign

UserPostedImage

Meet in Immensee: the GTW (left ) is bound to Luzern, the NPZ has just arrived from the same destination.
UserPostedImage

Erstfeld:
An Re 10/10 MU is taking a quick rest after bringing the heavy Northbound container train "over the hump" from Chiasso
On the Southbound track, a similar train is ready to do the reverse trip, behind a pair of MRCE Dispoloks TAURUS (barely visible on the pocket track at the end of the platform)
UserPostedImage

Unlikely that the pretty snowplough parked "at the ready" in Erstfeld will see any more duties this season...but one never knows!
UserPostedImage

An Re 6/6 comes out the Northportal of the Wattinger tunnel near Wassen!
Note the difference in ballast color?
The uphill track is "cleaner", as only the downhill side receives copiuos amount of brake dust.
A little detail to reproduce on the layout, no?

UserPostedImage

Same place, different angle of view, an Re 620 069 and an Re 4/4 II colleague hard at work, braking down the heavy 1300 tons container train
UserPostedImage

Action!
An ICN to Zürich zooms out of the Wattingen tunnel.
The restaurant car passengers certainly appreciate the "tilting" that keeps food and drinks in their respective containers while the train negotiates the many twists and turns at full speed!Blink
UserPostedImage

An ICN to Chiasso passes through Göschenen, before disappearing in the 10 miles/16 km Gotthard Tunnel
UserPostedImage

A Crossrail MU led container train arrives in Göschenen
UserPostedImage

Bellinzona. a TILO FLIRT to Locarno passes under the old fortifications
UserPostedImage

Hopefully, you'll enjoy this virtual trip through the most magnificent 1:1 gauge layout in Europe

Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 20 users liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline bmcrae  
#2 Posted : 23 May 2012 18:08:41(UTC)
bmcrae

Canada   
Joined: 17/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 970
Location: Okanagan Valley, BC
Thank you Jacques, looks like some nice locations!
Offline steventrain  
#3 Posted : 23 May 2012 18:11:31(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,594
Location: United Kingdom
Great pictures, I like the Re6/6.ThumpUp
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline NewMB  
#4 Posted : 23 May 2012 20:14:37(UTC)
NewMB

Germany   
Joined: 26/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 668
Location: Erftstadt
Looks really lovely!!
Offline rbonet  
#5 Posted : 23 May 2012 20:26:00(UTC)
rbonet

Spain   
Joined: 01/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 139
Location: Barcelona, Spain
Jacques, thanks for sharing your pics.

Rafael
Collecting Era I, II & III, mainly German, French & Spanish RR, some USA
Offline Western Pacific  
#6 Posted : 23 May 2012 20:44:55(UTC)
Western Pacific

Sweden   
Joined: 19/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 841
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post


An Re 6/6 comes out the Northportal of the Wattinger tunnel near Wassen!
Note the difference in ballast color?
The uphill track is "cleaner", as only the downhill side receives copiuos amount of brake dust.
A little detail to reproduce on the layout, no?

UserPostedImage


Hopefully, you'll enjoy this virtual trip through the most magnificent 1:1 gauge layout in Europe

Cheers


I have for sure enjoyed the virtual trip - thanks a lot!

A question though, could it not just be the case that the uphill track has been re-ballasted more recently?
Offline jvuye  
#7 Posted : 23 May 2012 21:03:08(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Western Pacific Go to Quoted Post
...

I have for sure enjoyed the virtual trip - thanks a lot!

A question though, could it not just be the case that the uphill track has been re-ballasted more recently?


Thanks for the comments!
I was actually thinking like you (newer ballast) in the beginning, but ... I am now positive about the cause of the difference in rust+ dust on the ballast: it is the same all along the line, South and North ramp alike and has been like that ever since I've been roaming these tracks (i.e: since 1953...)
I have hundred of pictures that supports this!
And my friend the SBB engineer based in Erstfeld also confirmed it.
I believe it is a great topic of discussion for the friends who'll be visiting the layout.
Cheers



Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#8 Posted : 23 May 2012 21:24:59(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,861
Location: CA, USA
WOW!!! Thanks so much for sharing Jacques!! More Inspiration for when I have space some day!!!

SBB Era 2-5
Offline mike c  
#9 Posted : 23 May 2012 22:35:16(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post


Re 4/4 II 11194 with an InterRegio from Locarno to Bern and Basel
UserPostedImage



Jacques,

it seems like you had a nice trip and those are some nice photos. One slight correction regarding the photo above, the IR from Locarno is likely heading to Luzern and then on to Olten and Basel. There are AFAIK no trains from the Gotthard that go to Bern. Passengers to Bern must transfer in either Luzern or Olten.

I had never before noticed the difference in colour of the ballast. I will have to go through my photo library and books to see if it is visible there.
Last trip (2004), I spent some time around the Arth-Goldau station, which I chose because the Basel/Luzern and Zurich lines meet there on the way to the Gotthard.

Regards

Mike C


Offline Oliver SBB-CFF-FFS  
#10 Posted : 23 May 2012 22:49:48(UTC)
Oliver SBB-CFF-FFS

Sweden   
Joined: 22/06/2011(UTC)
Posts: 544
Thank you so much for sharing the pictures Jacques! Switzerland is a really nice country with wonderful scenes. Also seeing the trains and locos in their natural environment is just awesome! They fit in so well. Your pictures once again remind me of why I am so fond of swiss models.

Oliver
SBB Era IV - VI
Offline Jeremy Palmer  
#11 Posted : 23 May 2012 23:39:45(UTC)
Jeremy Palmer

Barbados   
Joined: 15/04/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,464
Location: St. Michael, Barbados
Thank you Jacques, great photos - thanks for posting them,

Jeremy.
Jeremy.

1). If at first you don't succeed, bungee jumping mightn't be for you.
2). The early bird may get the worm, but it's the second rat that gets the cheese.
Offline river6109  
#12 Posted : 24 May 2012 08:20:28(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,614
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Jacques, the same here.

I know we never satisfied what we get for free but are there anymore more, tiny few more pictures available ?

When it comes to photos from Switzerland and Austria I can never get enough.

regards.,

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline nevw  
#13 Posted : 24 May 2012 08:35:21(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Thanks Jacques, Lovely photos

N
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline kimballthurlow  
#14 Posted : 24 May 2012 11:21:53(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,640
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Western Pacific Go to Quoted Post
...

I have for sure enjoyed the virtual trip - thanks a lot!

A question though, could it not just be the case that the uphill track has been re-ballasted more recently?


Thanks for the comments!
I was actually thinking like you (newer ballast) in the beginning, but ... I am now positive about the cause of the difference in rust+ dust on the ballast: it is the same all along the line, South and North ramp alike and has been like that ever since I've been roaming these tracks (i.e: since 1953...)
I have hundred of pictures that supports this!
And my friend the SBB engineer based in Erstfeld also confirmed it.
I believe it is a great topic of discussion for the friends who'll be visiting the layout.
Cheers





Hi Jacques,

Beautiful photos, I enjoyed them very much. Thank you for sharing.

In my experience, the whiter coloured ballast is always on the up hill line, and it is because of the sand that is used to gain traction for the locomotive wheels. This phenomenon was also widely observable in the days of steam.

Dried sand is stored on the locomotives purely for this purpose. I may be wrong as regards Europe, but even modern electric locomotives here in Australia and elsewhere, require this facility.

If you have a close look at the photos that indicate different colouring, you will see that the underlying ballast is actually the same colour on both uphill and downhill tracks. Uphill track has the very noticeable white coating of sand dust on and around the rails.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline tiono  
#15 Posted : 24 May 2012 13:48:14(UTC)
tiono

United States   
Joined: 09/02/2010(UTC)
Posts: 234
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post

Dried sand is stored on the locomotives purely for this purpose. I may be wrong as regards Europe, but even modern electric locomotives here in Australia and elsewhere, require this facility.

regards
Kimball


Finally, somebody solved "the ballast color mystery".
That is true that locomotive carry sand, which will be sprayed in front of the wheels to increase traction during demanding situation.
Further explanation can be read here: http://science.howstuffworks.com/transport/engines-equipment/diesel-locomotive3.htm

Offline BrandonVA  
#16 Posted : 24 May 2012 17:54:04(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Jacques - for a moment I thought I was there. Thank you very much for the pictures!
Offline mike c  
#17 Posted : 24 May 2012 19:33:22(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
I have been following the ballast coloration issue in this topic and would like to add one piece of information to the puzzle. While the two tracks of the Gotthard route appear to be divided into a northbound and southbound track, the line in fact consists of two separate tracks that can be operated in either direction and which is controlled by blocks, so it is possible to see trains running in the opposing direction to the the Swiss norm of left hand operation. The majority of traffic likely still does operate according to the Swiss norms.

As far as sand dispersion by locomotives, I do not know whether this is constant (a little bit released all the time as the lok climbs) or whether this is only used when starting on a ramp or when entering an inclined section or when a loss of traction is detected.

Regards

Mike C
Offline petestra  
#18 Posted : 24 May 2012 20:45:45(UTC)
petestra

United States   
Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 5,824
Location: Leesburg,VA.USA
Thanks for sharing the great photos, Jacques. PeterThumpUp Smile
Offline jvuye  
#19 Posted : 24 May 2012 23:10:26(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Thanks all for the nice comments, it is just a good feeling to know I can share my fascination with this spectacular railroad line that has been the matter of all my rr fantasises ever since I saw a CCS 800 in the Märklin 1949 catalog...Smile

To answer Mike C : indeed the Gotthard line is "banalised", which means that trains can run on either track in any direction... this was indeed the case when there where significant difference in train speeds and when faster trains were given the opportunity to do "flying" overtake of slower ones.
I remember seeing a Ce 6/8 II back in the late 1950's (must have been '58 or '59) , going uphill on the right track in the Wassen station, with a rather short freight, at what seemed to be a very slow speed, being overtaken by a shining brand new Ae 6/6 with a fast passenger train, passing on the left track.

But today, there is only a 5 km/h speed difference between "freights" and "passengers", and no need for flying passes anymore.
Running on the "false track" is rather the exception today and as far as I have observed, only happens when there are maintenance works performed along the track or in tunnels, causing one side being occupied by the work train, or when major disruptions occur like snow drifts and the likes.

In fact the scheduling of trains is always done trying to balance the tonnage going uphill and downhill, as to use mainly the power recovered from the regenerative braking of the downhill trains to lift the uphill trains.
The Re 460's, Re 482's, Taurus and the like can in fact generate more braking HP going downhill than traction HP going up....

It is a fun occurence as one will often see 4 or 5 huge trains in both directions, following at very close interval.
Cool Not a coincidence, it's planned that way!

It is of course only possible when trains have a clear track ahead, which is best accomplished keeping uni-directional tracks all the way.

Today, there is very little use of sand: modern locomotives have very effective anti-slip systems, and sanding the track is practically a thing of the past.
And sand creates all kind of other problems, as it is ingested in the forced ventilation/cooling systems of locos and coaches, causing all kinds of troubles.

It is positively the combination brake rust + dust that is the main cause of discoloration of the (predominantly) downhill tracks...

Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline river6109  
#20 Posted : 25 May 2012 01:45:34(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,614
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Hi everyone,

Have to have a look at my layout and see the difference between the uphill and downhill trackFlapper

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline jvuye  
#21 Posted : 26 May 2012 08:04:24(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Hi everyone,

Have to have a look at my layout and see the difference between the uphill and downhill trackFlapper

John


Right!
And the verdict is...?
Time to pull out the aerograph aka airbrush and some rusty color! BigGrin
Cheers.

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline Tom Jessop  
#22 Posted : 26 May 2012 13:31:37(UTC)
Tom Jessop

Australia   
Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 800
Location: Newcastle NSW Australia
The company I work for in Newcastle have the most modern d/e AC locomotives in Oz ,we use 3 loco's on each train with a block coal load of 96 wagons load of 11712 tonnes. We usually have to refuel & sand each engine at least every 5 days if doing short haulage from the mines[100 km each way roughly] or more often if out to the far mine [250 + km each way]. I have had to put in over 1 1/2 tones of sand into 3 loco's sand boxes -24 boxes in total & these were not totally empty at the time. This is over 1/80 ruling grades in the most part so they are not significant hills in a ozzy sense where I have had to work 4500tonne trains over 1/33 & 1/30 grades every day when I worked at Lithgow hauling coal. The up grade was almost white in colour from the sand used compared to the down grade which was rust coloured from the cast iron brake shoes that used to be in use untill composite shoes were used to improve brakeing.

Tom in Oz.
Offline Tom Jessop  
#23 Posted : 26 May 2012 14:01:22(UTC)
Tom Jessop

Australia   
Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 800
Location: Newcastle NSW Australia
Originally Posted by: Western Pacific Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post


An Re 6/6 comes out the Northportal of the Wattinger tunnel near Wassen!
Note the difference in ballast color?
The uphill track is "cleaner", as only the downhill side receives copiuos amount of brake dust.
A little detail to reproduce on the layout, no?

UserPostedImage


Hopefully, you'll enjoy this virtual trip through the most magnificent 1:1 gauge layout in Europe

Cheers


I have for sure enjoyed the virtual trip - thanks a lot!

A question though, could it not just be the case that the uphill track has been re-ballasted more recently?


There is very new ballast on the up hill track. when looking at the next photo after this one you can see where the new ballast has been laid along the track edge & hasnt spilled over on to the edge of the older ballast.

Tom in Oz [Just back from laying 700 tonnes of ballast in real life]

Offline Alfa V8  
#24 Posted : 30 May 2012 21:00:54(UTC)
Alfa V8


Joined: 20/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 211
Location: , Mpumalanga, South Africa
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
I have just spent a couple of days railfanning on the Gotthard line.
The weather wasn't too cooperative for great pictures...nevertheless I share some since they offer here and there ideas for train compositions and decoration.


Thanks Jacques for sharing your pictures, I specially love the Re 4/4, 620 and 10/10ThumpUp but they are all nice

Hannes
Every day provides new opertunities. H0 mostly Marklin, still using my 6021, LGB in Gauge 1, live steam in larger gauges.
Offline Loadmaster  
#25 Posted : 30 May 2012 21:53:45(UTC)
Loadmaster

United States   
Joined: 03/02/2010(UTC)
Posts: 898
Location: So Cal
Question about the 1st and 5th pictures.
Is that a step along the edge of that short platform for boarding the trains?
Is that track higher in elevation than the track beside the station?

OK, I'm waiting for some good responses.

Rob
HOac and Z scale running SBB/BLS Era IV-V
Offline kimballthurlow  
#26 Posted : 31 May 2012 02:23:05(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,640
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: Tom Jessop Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post


An Re 6/6 comes out the Northportal of the Wattinger tunnel near Wassen!
Note the difference in ballast color?
.......


There is very new ballast on the up hill track. when looking at the next photo after this one you can see where the new ballast has been laid along the track edge & hasnt spilled over on to the edge of the older ballast.

Tom in Oz [Just back from laying 700 tonnes of ballast in real life]



Hi Tom,

Close inspection of the next photo (with the Class 620) appears to support your idea, and I suspect you are correct.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline Tom Jessop  
#27 Posted : 31 May 2012 05:37:41(UTC)
Tom Jessop

Australia   
Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 800
Location: Newcastle NSW Australia
Very good question, First thought is that it is a electrical duct but that gets hit on the head when looking at the end of the platform & there is no ground disturbance from new work, maybe a an additional safety barrier to stop staff walking on to the adjoining track when alighting from a train after doing cleaning ,but it's way too low for any safety benefit. It wouldnt be a step up to engines etc because it's only serving 1 side of the service walkway, maybe one of life's little mysteries which we will never know unless someone goes & makes enquires at the station.

Tom in Oz




quote=Loadmaster;339452]Question about the 1st and 5th pictures.
Is that a step along the edge of that short platform for boarding the trains?
Is that track higher in elevation than the track beside the station?

OK, I'm waiting for some good responses.

Rob


Offline Mark5  
#28 Posted : 31 May 2012 06:37:38(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Great photos and great discussion. Love to see all your heads banging against each other to come up with why the ballast is another colour.

So could it not be both, in this particular case? 1.) Discolouration from the brake dust rust as well as 2.) having the uphill ballast redone.

Once again, thanks so much for all your comments on the photos and thoughts on your observation over the years,
as well as the great shots.

Mark
ps. @Tom... I wonder why kind of colour patterns coal dust has on ballast leading to and from the mines.





DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
Offline Tom Jessop  
#29 Posted : 31 May 2012 08:29:29(UTC)
Tom Jessop

Australia   
Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 800
Location: Newcastle NSW Australia
Lovely photo's ,I thank all who post on here as it is just a little hard to drop over to Europe to take in the scenery from down here in OZ.
Coal [dust?] depends a lot on the type of coal being carried ,type of waggon it is being carried in & the geometry of the track. Present coal is mostly mined by longwall machines & is similar to fine gravel so becomes packed down in the waggons while travelling, in Oz most of the coal waggons are built with cross doors but we did have some built with bomb bay doors [3 doors running the length of wagon] .Most doors are fairly tight in their tolerances so do not allow leakage but those that do [mainly bomb bay ] leave a line down the centre of the tracks, main spillage occurs when going round corners if the load is above the tops of wagons & is vibrated off in travel. Depending on the size requirement of the contract from almost a dust to fingernail size or even bigger there can be quite a build up on the outside of the curve . I have seen doors open in transit which causes all sorts of problems & 100 tonnes of black stuff is spread for a 100 or so meters depending on speed of train. Derailments also leave a very large mess which can not be totally cleaned up [we even have used large super suckers mounted on road trucks to remove the last of the mess]. I can remember seeing photo's of men hand stacking large coal on the tops of wagons to try & stop spillage when coal was hand mined so there would have been much larger pieces falling down in travel. Newcastle where I work is the largest coal handling port in the world & we can turn a Panamax bulk carrier round in 24 hrs from start of loading. Check out on Google Earth to see the stockpiles with more being built now. GE shows a pic from 2006 ,there is another terminal finished & 1 more being built at present.

Wheat & other grains usually leave a fine trail down the track centre if there is leaking doors but sometimes you will see a large pile where a train may have stopped waiting for a signal.The birds have a smorgasboard doing the clean up.


I think this may have slightly hijacked the orginal thread sorry Jacques.

Tom in Oz


Mark
ps. @Tom... I wonder why kind of colour patterns coal dust has on ballast leading to and from the mines.





thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Tom Jessop
Offline jvuye  
#30 Posted : 31 May 2012 08:47:15(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Loadmaster Go to Quoted Post
Question about the 1st and 5th pictures.
Is that a step along the edge of that short platform for boarding the trains?
Is that track higher in elevation than the track beside the station?

OK, I'm waiting for some good responses.

Rob


Hi Rob

Apologies for the slow reply....(my excuse: I was playing with my trains...Blushing )

Glad you noticed that detail....(there are many others..)

The "step-up" was added many years ago to many low platforms in Switzerland.
The original platform height in Switzerland was lower (see for example the original Leichtstahlwagen of the 1940's which had a lower entrance threshold)

When the Swiss RR adopted the RIC spec, they adapted the height of most of their platform....and new coaches came with a higher
In station with very limited traffic, they simply saved money and added the "step-up"...

Nobody is complaining and it is for us a nice detail to add to a Swiss station.

As for the ballast color, I can once again confirm that the predominantly downhill track is darker because of brake dust + rust , it is exactly like that all along the N and S ramp, with the difference more pronounced on steeper sections.

Thanks for watching

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline Unholz  
#31 Posted : 31 May 2012 08:49:33(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: Loadmaster Go to Quoted Post
Question about the 1st and 5th pictures.
Is that a step along the edge of that short platform for boarding the trains?
Is that track higher in elevation than the track beside the station?


It is. According to current Swiss legislation (namely a law which requires equal rights for physically disabled persons), one should be able to access low-level vehicles easily in wheelchairs. Thus, today's platforms should generally have a height of 55 centimeters, hereby enabling a level transition from the platform to the modern vehicles. However, if the railways were forced to entirely elevate all existing platforms even in smaller stations, this would be unaffordable. Thus the "compromise" with the long metal stepways which should facilitate access to the trains.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#32 Posted : 31 May 2012 11:01:57(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,659
Location: New Zealand
Great pictures, thanks for sharing Jacques.
Offline Johnvr  
#33 Posted : 31 May 2012 17:23:08(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,269
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Superb pictures, thanks you !

My brother-in-law lives on the opposite side of the lake from Immensee so I have had the opportunity to see this wonderful landscape in 1:1 scale. Absolutely perfect !

Regards,BigGrin
John
Offline Western Pacific  
#34 Posted : 06 June 2012 08:19:40(UTC)
Western Pacific

Sweden   
Joined: 19/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 841
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
Jacques and others,

The next two weeks there will be limited traffic on the Gotthard line due to a land/rock slide. Freight trains are diverted over the BLS line and for passengers there are bus replacement services.

For those of you who read German there is a news paper article and for others there are pictures, both from this slide and from one in March here. There are also two videos with interviews held in Swiss German and you must be very good in mastering German to get any of it.

The slide has a volume of between 2000 and 3000 m3 and another 500 m3 could very well follow in subsequent slides. Two workers were injured by the slide and one is missing. The search for the missing worker cannot start until geologists have inspected the site due to the fact that the mountain side is very instable and it must be deemed safe enough before any work can continue.
Offline Unholz  
#35 Posted : 06 June 2012 13:42:12(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
The interruption will continue until July 6th, 2012: http://www.sbb.ch/en/tim...traffic-information.html
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Unholz
Offline NZMarklinist  
#36 Posted : 06 June 2012 16:10:05(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Firstly, thanks Jacques for sharing your wonderful photo's with us, bought back memories and perhaps appetite for 2013 ?? Wink

Looking at the 9th photo with the close up of the 620 it is as clear as daylight to me that the dsiscolouration is caused by a deposit of rusty materials which has spread a good way up the side of the ballast mound of the neighbouring track.
On the tight corner with the ICN you can see the discolouration goes right up to the railhead of the ajoining track, yet over ther other side of that track the ballast is relatively clean. These effects Gentlemen and Aussies could not be caused by reballasting, unless it was done by hand which even I know it is not. ThumpUp Wink
QED

Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Tom Jessop Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post


An Re 6/6 comes out the Northportal of the Wattinger tunnel near Wassen!
Note the difference in ballast color?
.......


There is very new ballast on the up hill track. when looking at the next photo after this one you can see where the new ballast has been laid along the track edge & hasnt spilled over on to the edge of the older ballast.

Tom in Oz [Just back from laying 700 tonnes of ballast in real life]



Hi Tom,

Close inspection of the next photo (with the Class 620) appears to support your idea, and I suspect you are correct.

regards
Kimball
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline Tom Jessop  
#37 Posted : 08 June 2012 01:05:51(UTC)
Tom Jessop

Australia   
Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 800
Location: Newcastle NSW Australia
Good Morn all. Glen the original query was why the ballast varied in colour on the other track. The colour change is due to new ballast that has been laid lightly on the edge of the rail base. This ballast has not been tamped or had a ballast regulator run over it to give a clean finish look. If you have access to the May issue of NZ Railway Observer there is a article about crew vans which also has pictures showing plough vans & a XF? ballast truck which is similar to the design used in Europe for dispensing rock along the track. These trucks can drop a light or heavy application as they roll along in the train & the plough on the last wagon then spreads the ballast if a heavy application has been made. After this has been done a Tamper is run over the track which pushes the ballast down & under the sleepers & also lifts the track & corrects geometry . When this is finished a ballast regulator is then used to form up the edge of the embankment & also picks up excess ballast & places it where it may be needed in the work area. The colour of the ballast lower down the embankment is due to mud from below the formation being pumped up thru the ballast,brake dust , catenary wear, & general polution in the area. There are major track works in progress in the Newcastle /Hunter valley area at the moment & this continuing thru to Xmas ,I'll try to get some photos of these machines in operation .

Go the Wallabies

Tom in Oz
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Tom Jessop
Offline Mark5  
#38 Posted : 08 June 2012 07:27:50(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Originally Posted by: Tom Jessop Go to Quoted Post
... Glen the original query was why the ballast varied in colour on the other track. The colour change is due to new ballast that has been laid lightly on the edge of the rail base . . . [ . . . ] . . . When this is finished a ballast regulator is then used to form up the edge of the embankment & also picks up excess ballast & places it where it may be needed in the work area. The colour of the ballast lower down the embankment is due to mud from below the formation being pumped up thru the ballast,brake dust , catenary wear, & general polution in the area. ...


So you are saying the mixing of colour on the embankment is from regulator which forms the shape of the edge and picks up the dirty ballast and blends it into the sloping side of the embankment? Which means either way, that the answer seems to be in both causes, new ballast and discoloured track/ballast from brake rust and other pollutants.

I'd love to see your photos to compare the process, or even better, if any chance of a video of the regulators in action forming the embankment.
This would be very valuable to see.

Thanks for all the info.

- Mark


DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
Offline Unholz  
#39 Posted : 09 June 2012 19:39:17(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
Here's a picture that shows the current landslide scene: http://www.bahnonline.ch...-Gurtnellen-47825_01.jpg
Offline jvuye  
#40 Posted : 09 June 2012 20:18:14(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Here's a picture that shows the current landslide scene: http://www.bahnonline.ch...-Gurtnellen-47825_01.jpg


Looks like the Menzi-Mucks have their job cut-out for a while!Scared
Gurtnellen was already the site of another major landslide some years ago.
A rough spot!


Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline intruder  
#41 Posted : 09 June 2012 20:36:04(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,382
Location: Akershus, Norway
Thanks you very much, Jacques!

Fantastic photos.
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline jvuye  
#42 Posted : 09 June 2012 22:05:09(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: intruder Go to Quoted Post
Thanks you very much, Jacques!

Fantastic photos.

Thank you Svein.
Glad you liked it.


Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline jcrtrains  
#43 Posted : 24 February 2015 21:37:40(UTC)
jcrtrains

Canada   
Joined: 31/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 597
Location: Toronto, Ontario
With the new base tunnel starting, will Erstfield be the best place to watch trains?
Offline jvuye  
#44 Posted : 24 February 2015 22:54:40(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: jcrtrains Go to Quoted Post
With the new base tunnel starting, will Erstfield be the best place to watch trains?


Unfortunately not.
The entrance of the new tunnel is a couple of km north of Erstfeld, so trains transiting through it will no longer be seen in the station.
So I expect a significant decrease in traffic in Erstfeldt once the tunnel opens.
I haven't read anything specific on the intended operation model, but since the tunnel will be run at high speed I am expecting that daytime passenger traffic will have priority, and a good proportion of freight trains will still use the old line.
The SBB invested in upgrading the old line to ECTS, so one could reasonably expect that it will still be used for some time to come.
Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline NZMarklinist  
#45 Posted : 25 February 2015 03:09:59(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: Tom Jessop Go to Quoted Post
Good Morn all. Glen the original query was why the ballast varied in colour on the other track. The colour change is due to new ballast that has been laid lightly on the edge of the rail base. This ballast has not been tamped or had a ballast regulator run over it to give a clean finish look. If you have access to the May issue of NZ Railway Observer there is a article about crew vans which also has pictures showing plough vans & a XF? ballast truck which is similar to the design used in Europe for dispensing rock along the track. These trucks can drop a light or heavy application as they roll along in the train & the plough on the last wagon then spreads the ballast if a heavy application has been made. After this has been done a Tamper is run over the track which pushes the ballast down & under the sleepers & also lifts the track & corrects geometry . When this is finished a ballast regulator is then used to form up the edge of the embankment & also picks up excess ballast & places it where it may be needed in the work area. The colour of the ballast lower down the embankment is due to mud from below the formation being pumped up thru the ballast,brake dust , catenary wear, & general polution in the area. There are major track works in progress in the Newcastle /Hunter valley area at the moment & this continuing thru to Xmas ,I'll try to get some photos of these machines in operation .

Go the Wallabies

Tom in Oz


Seeing this thread has popped up again I will have a say on this as it bothered me some what at the time, but I bit my tongue Laugh

With respect Tom SBB, do a far better job of maintaining their tracks and way more methodically, and mechanically automated, than Aus or Kiwi Rail. Your statements have NO relevance here and are tantamount to saying Jacques doesn't know what he is talking about.
I have been there and indeed there is way more discolouration of the ballast on the downhill sections of the Gotthard because of brake use.
Just have a look at any youtube video on the subject Gotthard and it is clearly evident in these too. Just remember SBB drives on the left Glare
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by NZMarklinist
Offline jcrtrains  
#46 Posted : 27 February 2015 20:39:56(UTC)
jcrtrains

Canada   
Joined: 31/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 597
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Given the current unknown of operations, should I try Altdorf or move down south to Biasca or Bellinzona? I am looking for a good place to watch heavy freight and some passenger in an Alpine setting. Should I consider Brig as well? Planned trip would be spring 2016.

Thank you
Offline jvuye  
#47 Posted : 27 February 2015 22:47:09(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: jcrtrains Go to Quoted Post
Given the current unknown of operations, should I try Altdorf or move down south to Biasca or Bellinzona? I am looking for a good place to watch heavy freight and some passenger in an Alpine setting. Should I consider Brig as well? Planned trip would be spring 2016.

Thank you


Hi!
Relatively little freight traffic over the Simplon Tunnel compared to Gotthard.
2016 should still have a lot of freight over the historic line.
In fact everything at this point says that during daytime operation , most freight will still go over the original line, with passenger traffic going through the tunnel.
Biasca is a good place to see trains, but it's already beyond the Mountain line.
Definitely best place to watch traffic on the N. ramp is Wassen (try the little cemetery near the Church) , on the S. ramp is Airolo and Biaschina.
The distances are short: about an hour by car between Wassen and Bellinzona through the 11 miles road tunnel.
Check when you have final dates for your trip: I am there **several times** a year, we may just simply join and enjoy the spectacle together.
Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline jvuye  
#48 Posted : 27 February 2015 22:53:43(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: intruder Go to Quoted Post
Thanks you very much, Jacques!

Fantastic photos.

Thank you Svein.
Glad you liked it.




With hindsight, just remembered that our friend Svein left us since he posted his reply.
Just happy these pics gave him some pleasure.

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline foumaro  
#49 Posted : 28 February 2015 04:47:54(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,420
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
He is missing in all of us.
Offline jcrtrains  
#50 Posted : 03 March 2015 21:40:34(UTC)
jcrtrains

Canada   
Joined: 31/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 597
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jcrtrains Go to Quoted Post
Given the current unknown of operations, should I try Altdorf or move down south to Biasca or Bellinzona? I am looking for a good place to watch heavy freight and some passenger in an Alpine setting. Should I consider Brig as well? Planned trip would be spring 2016.

Thank you


Hi!
Relatively little freight traffic over the Simplon Tunnel compared to Gotthard.
2016 should still have a lot of freight over the historic line.
In fact everything at this point says that during daytime operation , most freight will still go over the original line, with passenger traffic going through the tunnel.
Biasca is a good place to see trains, but it's already beyond the Mountain line.
Definitely best place to watch traffic on the N. ramp is Wassen (try the little cemetery near the Church) , on the S. ramp is Airolo and Biaschina.
The distances are short: about an hour by car between Wassen and Bellinzona through the 11 miles road tunnel.
Check when you have final dates for your trip: I am there **several times** a year, we may just simply join and enjoy the spectacle together.
Cheers


Yes - I can't think of a better place to meet other forum members! I will keep you and the forum posted once I cement my itinerary.

Thank you for the advice to date.
Users browsing this topic
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 2.093 seconds.