Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline Johnvr  
#1 Posted : 02 January 2011 22:57:09(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,269
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
I have been wanting to build a Randomised Train Router for some time. The upcoming Model Railway Convention in Cape Town scheduled for April 2011 presents a good opportunity for me to embark on my holiday job – designing and building the Randomised Train Router – which I shall hopefully display at the convention.

The Randomised Train Router works on this principle :
the route of the train is determined by a number of independent flashing lights, flashing alternately between Green and Red.
For each turnout on the track, there is a circuit of flashing lights, flashing between Green and Red.
There is also a Marklin Contact Track section preceeding the turnout, which is connected to the flashing light.
When the train makes contact at the contact track, the router checks the colour of the flashing light. If the flashing light is Green, then the turnout is set to straight and the train takes the main-line route. But if the flashing light is Red, then the turnout changes to curved, and the train takes the branch line route.
You don’t know beforehand whether the train will take the route straight ahead or take the curved route until you see the colour of the flashing light.
The proportion of Green flashes to Red flashes can be adjusted by turning a dial, similar to a speed control know on a Marklin transformer. So that you can set 50/50 for example main-line to branch line, or 70/30 main-line to branch-line if you prefer, or any combination you want to.
Here are pictures of my first trial : notice the Marklin contact track section connected to the router.

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

Here is the constructed prototype, showing the Green light and the Red light.

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

The following picture shows the locomotive approaching the contact track section, about to decide whether the light is flashing green or red, and the turnout will make its decision based on these circumstances.

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

I had my first trial run today using 3 of the routers connected to 3 turnouts. The system worked exactly as I had intended. The train followed the routing according to a randomized route pattern. Sometimes it follows the outer main-line circuit for up to 10 consecutive circuits, then it changes to the branch-line, then back again, and so on. It's just impossible to predict which way the locomitve will go when it comes to the turnout !

My next step will be to introduce signaling systems so that multiple trains can follow randomized traffic routing.

Hoo-boy – I can’t wait !! This is going to keep me nice and busy for my holidays, and hopefully by the time the convention comes in April 2011, the randomised train traffic router will make an interesting display !!
Offline Webmaster  
#2 Posted : 02 January 2011 23:30:22(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
I really like this approach... ThumpUp

I immediately think of another application area - randomized hidden stations (ladder yards)...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline DaleSchultz  
#3 Posted : 03 January 2011 00:09:53(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
Juhan,

why would randomization be interesting in hidden areas? You can't see the difference, by definition.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline Webmaster  
#4 Posted : 03 January 2011 00:11:07(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
I want to be surprised about what train comes up from the dark...BigGrin
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline DaleSchultz  
#5 Posted : 03 January 2011 00:28:31(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
so you need random starts then, not random switching....
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline Oscar  
#6 Posted : 03 January 2011 08:55:32(UTC)
Oscar


Joined: 25/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 783
Location: ,
Great idea!!
Offline Joseph Meiring  
#7 Posted : 03 January 2011 08:58:56(UTC)
Joseph Meiring

South Africa   
Joined: 27/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,157
Location: Western Cape Cape Town
Well done John!....looks VERY interesting, this will keep you busy!...(do you know where I can get a UPS in Cape Town area?-see my thread under general, erratic house voltage)
M track Joe
Offline nevw  
#8 Posted : 03 January 2011 09:10:36(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Joe Meiring wrote:
Well done John!....looks VERY interesting, this will keep you busy!...(do you know where I can get a UPS in Cape Town area?-see my thread under general, erratic house voltage)
M track Joe

Joe , most good computer shops.

NN
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline Joseph Meiring  
#9 Posted : 03 January 2011 09:29:37(UTC)
Joseph Meiring

South Africa   
Joined: 27/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,157
Location: Western Cape Cape Town
nevw wrote:
Joe Meiring wrote:
Well done John!....looks VERY interesting, this will keep you busy!...(do you know where I can get a UPS in Cape Town area?-see my thread under general, erratic house voltage)
M track Joe

Joe , most good computer shops.

NN

thanks Neville...off to the shops now....getting worried with all those erratic readings from my transformer!
Offline hxmiesa  
#10 Posted : 03 January 2011 11:04:04(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,520
Location: Spain
I can definatly recommend including the random element. I have found that it keeps me almost hypnotized wathcing the trains run.
As I use a PLC, I just start a seconds-counter at the turn ON of the system. Then, when it´s the moement to start a train from one of the shaddow-stations, this counter determines which track is given green light.
I dont use random swtiching, but branchline-able train ARE "coded" with a magnet (for reeds), which will make the PLC switch it from the mainline (shadowstations are there) to the branchline... MAYBE (in reality; if branchline is free at the moment), otherwise the train just continues on the mainline. (Trains running the branchline loop, are eventually returned to the mainline again.)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline DaleSchultz  
#11 Posted : 03 January 2011 20:06:20(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
in my world, I don't have goods trains stopping at passenger stations. Also planned, is that electric powered trains do not run on track without catenary. My ICE is not to run up the branch line to the S-Bahn station and only S-Bahn trains should run through my underground S-Bahn station.... so sending trains on random paths would not be a good sight on my system in general.

Selection of sidings is done based on optimal length of siding and train.

Essentially randomization proves a level of uncertainty from the observer's point of view. If they are not sure where the train is going it adds some excitement and variation. The more trains are running the more complex the routing becomes and also less predictable by the observer.

I use random locations on the departure boards for origins and destination for trains that have come from, or are going to, a hidden station. I have a set of European city names that are used.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline Mikael  
#12 Posted : 03 January 2011 20:22:56(UTC)
Mikael

Denmark   
Joined: 10/09/2004(UTC)
Posts: 959
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Very nice idea John. The concept behind it isn't complicated, but getting the idea in the first place, is. I just hope you don't have any trains with an extra pickup-shoe (for lights), or you just might have an accident waiting to happen BigGrin
Offline gachar001  
#13 Posted : 03 January 2011 20:31:15(UTC)
gachar001

India   
Joined: 29/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,391
Location: Chennai
Nice project John. But I don't see much practical use in a layout. Like Dale, I too have limitations on which trains can go on which route.
And what holidays do you guys have in SA now while the rest of us are back at work BigGrin
Gautham
Atlanta, GA USA
Offline Joseph Meiring  
#14 Posted : 03 January 2011 21:06:41(UTC)
Joseph Meiring

South Africa   
Joined: 27/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,157
Location: Western Cape Cape Town
And what holidays do you guys have in SA now while the rest of us are back at work BigGrin

Well, I suppose some folk would say Cape Town is so laid back we're always on holiday
Seriously tho, this is our long Christmas/New Year holiday break-most folk go back to work 17 Jan, schools only start up 19 Jan, or even later!
Joe
Offline Johnvr  
#15 Posted : 03 January 2011 21:17:56(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,269
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Dale,
I agree with you that this has limited application in a layout such as yours (I viewed to your website and you have developed some incredibly advanced applications to go with your fantastic layout - great stuff), but it it started out with me wanting to learn more about electronics. I am actually an electronics novice, and this is the first project that I have really worked on, getting the circuit board to work, etc. Actually I first became interested when a fellow enthusiast made electronic sounds to add to his layout. I was so impressed that I decided to buy some components, but it has been a while before I got this to work.

Mikael,
Thanks for the note. As you point out, my ICE train has 2 pickup shoes, one in the leading motorised unit, and another in the tail un-motorised unit, but the second one is for tail lighting. I have to remove the trailing unit with the second pickup shoe, or else there will be !@#$%^&* when the train gets de-railed !

Gautham,
yep we have summer holidays in January. My children are at University and they begin their next term in February. I like to take my annual vacation from work break in summer because my favorite sport is wind-surfing, and we get good consistent south-easterly winds in Cape Town at this time of year, ideal for wind-surfing in the bay with Table Mountain as the backdrop.

Regards,RollEyes
John.
Offline dan67millie  
#16 Posted : 04 January 2011 15:28:48(UTC)
dan67millie


Joined: 09/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 202
Location: England Northamptonshire
Johnvr wrote:
I have been wanting to build a Randomised Train Router for some time. The upcoming Model Railway Convention in Cape Town scheduled for April 2011 presents a good opportunity for me to embark on my holiday job – designing and building the Randomised Train Router – which I shall hopefully display at the convention.

The Randomised Train Router works on this principle :
the route of the train is determined by a number of independent flashing lights, flashing alternately between Green and Red.
For each turnout on the track, there is a circuit of flashing lights, flashing between Green and Red.
There is also a Marklin Contact Track section preceeding the turnout, which is connected to the flashing light.
When the train makes contact at the contact track, the router checks the colour of the flashing light. If the flashing light is Green, then the turnout is set to straight and the train takes the main-line route. But if the flashing light is Red, then the turnout changes to curved, and the train takes the branch line route.
You don’t know beforehand whether the train will take the route straight ahead or take the curved route until you see the colour of the flashing light.
The proportion of Green flashes to Red flashes can be adjusted by turning a dial, similar to a speed control know on a Marklin transformer. So that you can set 50/50 for example main-line to branch line, or 70/30 main-line to branch-line if you prefer, or any combination you want to.
Here are pictures of my first trial : notice the Marklin contact track section connected to the router.

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

Here is the constructed prototype, showing the Green light and the Red light.

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

The following picture shows the locomotive approaching the contact track section, about to decide whether the light is flashing green or red, and the turnout will make its decision based on these circumstances.

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

I had my first trial run today using 3 of the routers connected to 3 turnouts. The system worked exactly as I had intended. The train followed the routing according to a randomized route pattern. Sometimes it follows the outer main-line circuit for up to 10 consecutive circuits, then it changes to the branch-line, then back again, and so on. It's just impossible to predict which way the locomitve will go when it comes to the turnout !

My next step will be to introduce signaling systems so that multiple trains can follow randomized traffic routing.

Hoo-boy – I can’t wait !! This is going to keep me nice and busy for my holidays, and hopefully by the time the convention comes in April 2011, the randomised train traffic router will make an interesting display !!

Hi can you stick some sought of diagram up with the parts neaded to make this item i very much like this item and will want something like it for the future cheers Dan.ThumpUp
Offline Johnvr  
#17 Posted : 07 January 2011 20:46:44(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,269
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Dan,

Thanks for your interest !

Ok, I have tried to draw some diagrams for you. You will find this very simple to construct, as only a few parts are required. And once you have done the basics, you will find other usefulness with these circuits. And best of all, the electronic parts are cheap !! For about 5 pounds, you will be able to get all the required items !!BigGrin BigGrin

To start with, the following parts are required :
1 x IC555
1 x IC555 connector (8 pin holder that is used to solder to the circuit board)
2 x 1 M Ohm resistors
2 x 470 Ohm resistors
2 x LED lights (Red and Green)
1 x Capacitor of 22uF
1 x Relay 12Volts
2 x 1 M Ohm Potentiometers (I'll explain why later)
Circuit Board, Soldering Iron, Wire connectors, etc

The IC555 is a wonderful little chip that allows you to set timings for any number of applications. You can set timings for anything from seconds to minutes. Start by examining the IC555 and get used to the 8 pin connections. There is lots of material on the Internet about the IC555 chip. I have drawn the IC555 chip here to show you how the 8 pins are labelled :

UserPostedImage

Next, construct the circuit to enable you to see the lights flashing Red and Green. The Green light will light up for about 30 seconds, and the Red light will light for 15 seconds.

UserPostedImage

If you want to adjust the flashing, use the 2 x 1 M Ohm Potentiometers replacing the 2 x 1 M Ohm resistors. The two potentiometers will allow you to adjust the total cycle time, as well as the proportion of Red or Green within the cycle time. You'll have to play with the potentiometers to get the timing that you desire.

Lastly, and only after succeeding with the flashing lights, then move into the final circuit which takes a 12Volt Relay, and link this to your Marklin Contact Track and the Turnout.

UserPostedImage

Please let me know if you have success with this ! I am exploring more opportunities, and it would be great to share these new ideas.

Regards,
John



Offline dntower85  
#18 Posted : 07 January 2011 21:49:54(UTC)
dntower85

United States   
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,218
Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
That IC Chip is cool,ThumpUp I could use that to run my LGB rail bus as a shuttle train, does the timing go faster or slower with more resistance?
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
Offline Johnvr  
#19 Posted : 08 January 2011 23:35:55(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,269
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
DT

To answer your question, the timing goes faster when the resistance is reduced.
In fact, by adjusting the resistance, you can achieve any level of timing that you want to.

Regards,Cool
John
Offline Johnvr  
#20 Posted : 19 January 2011 10:28:08(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,269
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
This is an update report for those of you who have followed the earlier thread. The content of this is written for Marklin Analog Control systems (eg, M Track, K Track and C Track but without Digital Turnouts or Signals), since Digital Routing and Memory systems can be purchased from Marklin.

My holiday project has been to develop Train Traffic Routing systems, using electronic circuits. It’s partly because I wanted to learn about electronics and micro-chips, but it’s also because it seems that watching trains go around and around could be made more interesting by random variations of routes, and because there is a Model Railway Convention in Cape Town in April 2011 and I have the idea that I would like to display this project at the Convention.

Since my earlier thread on this subject, I have been working on a new Router system which works as follows :
  1. The new Router has six Routes which can be selected,
  2. Each of the six Routes may contain several solenoid accessories, eg turnouts, signals, etc
  3. The Router scrolls through the six Routes sequentially, selecting each one for a period of about 10 seconds, before scrolling to the following one, according to the flashing yellow light
  4. When the train goes over the Contact Track section, it triggers the Router and selects whichever Route is lit up.
  5. That ‘Route’ is then set for the train to follow.


It’s like rolling a Dice, and the Dice decides what the train should do next.

Here you can see the six ‘Routes’ which are indicated by the LED lights connected to Relays :

UserPostedImage

The yellow light flashes every 10 seconds to scroll through the six ‘Routes sequentially :

UserPostedImage

The approaching ICE train is about to make contact with the Contact Track to select its Route. The previous train has selected the inside branch line :

UserPostedImage

One train has selected the inside branch line, but the next train may select a different route. (Note : if it is less than 10 seconds behind the previous train, then it will follow the same route !)

UserPostedImage

A view of the router next to the track :

UserPostedImage

It’s quite interesting to watch, actually. It’s hard to predict which route each train will follow. OhMyGod OhMyGod

I had great fun experimenting with 2 trains on the track, and one train chasing the next one, and seeing when they switch routes, then I could have a breather while one train was stationary on a route while the other train was circulating away, but only until the next time that route was selected, then I’d have to go again !!

An application that may be interesting is for the six routes to be connected to six turnouts and signals in a marshalling yard of six lanes. The approaching train would randomly select which of the six lanes in the yard it wanted to route to, set the train in the yard to go, and then stop itself in the yard, to wait for another cycle to commence.Unsure

Cost : The entire Router cost me financially about 100 South African Rands (about 8 Pounds). Of course quite a lot of experimenting, and holiday time, but that is what hobbies are for !!ThumpUp

My next task is to build the layout with the Routers which I have been working on, and display it at the Model Railway Convention in April 2011. There might be some people who may be interested !

Regards,Wink
John
Offline Mark5  
#21 Posted : 13 February 2013 05:49:58(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Beautiful work here John,

Is the randomizer you used for the recent layout with 3 ovals?

- Mark
DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
Offline Johnvr  
#22 Posted : 13 February 2013 07:36:51(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,269
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Mark,

Thanks for the note here.

No, the randomised routing shown here was not used in the 3 oval layout .. I am using the Memory to plan traffic routing.

Regards,BigGrin
John
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 1.109 seconds.