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Offline Harvey  
#1 Posted : 22 September 2010 03:13:40(UTC)
Harvey

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Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 358
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
I am currently setting up separate passenger and freight lines. Initially both will be powered from one transformer and controlled with a CS2. I will be using a booster to power the turnouts and other accessories. I will most likely (in the future) isolate the passenger and freight lines and use a MS or another booster to power. The engine yard will be within the freight region (powered) and so passenger engines will cross over the isolation track.

My question is wiring the S88. I have two. Do I need the reeds on the freight line connected to 1 S88 and the passenger line connected to the other. Does the ground coming from the T plug have to also be aligned as such.

I think the answer to both questions is no. The CS2 will 'sense' each reed, which ever track line and the signal is not going through the tracks. The ground for each line can be a common ground. Likely not phrasing this well.

Thanks,

Harvey
Offline nevw  
#2 Posted : 22 September 2010 04:01:02(UTC)
nevw

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as far as I know you are correct.
However using a booster to power turnouts and othr accessories is a bit of a waste. Use anothr Power supply/transformer to do that.
NN
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Offline GSRR  
#3 Posted : 22 September 2010 04:54:43(UTC)
GSRR

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Harvey,

What brand of S88 are you using?
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Offline Harvey  
#4 Posted : 23 September 2010 02:10:09(UTC)
Harvey

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Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
GSRR wrote:
Harvey,

What brand of S88 are you using?


I am using Marklin's S88. Would this make a difference?

Regards,

Harvey
Offline Harvey  
#5 Posted : 31 October 2010 20:44:44(UTC)
Harvey

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Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 358
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Need some help.

I have made some progress in setting up my layout. But I am not having success with reed switches and the S88.

I set up the CS2 to operate two main tracks (passenger lines, freight lines). As I am still building and testing, I use 1 transformer with the CS2 to power both, with power feeds to the tracks every two meters. I have successfully tested operating switches (via K83) and turning power on/off to blocks (K84) - all down via both the keyboard and layout options of the CS2. This was so easy to set up!

I purchased reed switches - both Marklin and from the English firm others have suggested. I tested this in analogue, while waiting for my CS2.

From the S88 manual,I followed the forth option on pg 11 (both wires go to the S88). The wire to the T plug on the S88 is connected to the ground wire returning to the CS2. When setting up memory, I initially used Manual Operation. Ran a loc slowly over the reed, pulling a freight car with a Marklin magnet. The switch did not work. I entered Memory and 'pressed' the S88 symbol and the switching track was activated. Tried two magnets and passed over the reed - still no success.

The switched to Manual and Automatic Operation (on the Memory screen). I saved and then watched the CS2 cycle through every few seconds. Any switching track not aligned to what I had in memory was changed (switched). After the switching track was changed how I have programed in memory, I changed the setting and again watched memory cycle through all settings. It changed the switch track to what was programmed in memory.

So, it seems the CS2 is scanning the settings and working correctly. But I am not sure if I have wired the S88 correctly and no idea what I have done wrong.

One other related question - the S88 manual (figure 4 again), two black triangles (arrows). The arrow on the wire from the T connection suggests currently coming from the T and returning to connection 1. But is not the T the ground or return?

Of course, appreciate any suggestions,

Regards,

Harvey

Offline Pavle  
#6 Posted : 31 October 2010 23:14:36(UTC)
Pavle


Joined: 21/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 206
Location: Netherlands
Harvey wrote:


When setting up memory, I initially used Manual Operation. Ran a loc slowly over the reed, pulling a freight car with a Marklin magnet. The switch did not work. I entered Memory and 'pressed' the S88 symbol and the switching track was activated. Tried two magnets and passed over the reed - still no success.

The switched to Manual and Automatic Operation (on the Memory screen). I saved and then watched the CS2 cycle through every few seconds. Any switching track not aligned to what I had in memory was changed (switched). After the switching track was changed how I have programed in memory, I changed the setting and again watched memory cycle through all settings. It changed the switch track to what was programmed in memory.




Harvey,

I am not sure about what you are doing, but I make a mistake every time that I set up new routes:

The memory screen has 4 rows of 8 symbols (for 8 routes). On the right hand side of EACH row there is a symbol for Manual or Automatic operation. By default this is "manual", but if you use reeds (or any other S88-device) it has to be set to "Automatic" (which I always forget...). When it is "manual", you can only operate the routes manually, the reeds don't work. When it's "automatic", the reeds should work - and you can still do it manually if required.
Another thing I sometimes forget: the route should have the correct S88 contact number...

Hope this helps...
Peter
Offline Harvey  
#7 Posted : 31 October 2010 23:24:39(UTC)
Harvey

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Posts: 358
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Peter,

Thanks for responding. When I set it to automatic, it seems the CS2 is cycling through each reed I have attached and it activates any switch not set in the position in memory. But the reed does not pick up the (respond to) magnet when it passes over the reed. I am guessing that the cycling part is that the CS2 is checking (sending a signal?) but the S88 may not be connected correctly. So, my 'error' is likely how I have set up the wires from the reed to the S88 and to the CS2. Yet, I followed diagram 4 in the manual.

Well, hopefully others will have ideas on what I should check.

Thanks again.
Offline GSRR  
#8 Posted : 01 November 2010 00:56:54(UTC)
GSRR

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Harvey wrote:
Peter,

Thanks for responding. When I set it to automatic, it seems the CS2 is cycling through each reed I have attached and it activates any switch not set in the position in memory. But the reed does not pick up the (respond to) magnet when it passes over the reed. I am guessing that the cycling part is that the CS2 is checking (sending a signal?) but the S88 may not be connected correctly. So, my 'error' is likely how I have set up the wires from the reed to the S88 and to the CS2. Yet, I followed diagram 4 in the manual.

Well, hopefully others will have ideas on what I should check.

Thanks again.



Harvey,

have you taken a lose magnet and passed it over the reed switch? It is possible the magnet you are using is to weak or placed to high up on the wagon to not trigger the reed switch?

Do you have either a contact or circuit track connected to either S88 at least as a test?


Regards,


Thomas


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Offline Pavle  
#9 Posted : 01 November 2010 01:30:33(UTC)
Pavle


Joined: 21/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 206
Location: Netherlands
Harvey wrote:
Peter,

Thanks for responding. When I set it to automatic, it seems the CS2 is cycling through each reed I have attached and it activates any switch not set in the position in memory. But the reed does not pick up the (respond to) magnet when it passes over the reed. I am guessing that the cycling part is that the CS2 is checking (sending a signal?) but the S88 may not be connected correctly. So, my 'error' is likely how I have set up the wires from the reed to the S88 and to the CS2. Yet, I followed diagram 4 in the manual.

Well, hopefully others will have ideas on what I should check.

Thanks again.


Sounds like the CS2 is thinking that all reeds are activated - some kind of shortcut.
My reeds are connected with one long wire to the S88, and a very short wire to the ground-connection of the track. I do not use the T-plug on the S88 (was needed on CS-1, seems no longer needed on CS-2).
Could you try that? That is, disconnecting the T-plug on S88, but connecting the wires that come back from the reeds to the ground wire to CS-2? And then try to activate one of the reeds by getting a magnet over it?
Peter
Offline Harvey  
#10 Posted : 01 November 2010 01:52:20(UTC)
Harvey

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Posts: 358
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Thomas,

I had also tested with 2 Marklin magnets. So I think that is not the cause/solution.

Peter,

I will try (tomorrow) disconnecting the T connection and ground to the track. I had this set up when I tested analogue and it worked. I have seen other advice regarding using the T connector. The S88 instructions show both setups and so it is confusing.

Thanks for the suggestions. As others have said, this is a great website for help and information!BigGrin
Offline GSRR  
#11 Posted : 01 November 2010 02:30:08(UTC)
GSRR

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Location: USA
Harvey wrote:
Thomas,

I had also tested with 2 Marklin magnets. So I think that is not the cause/solution.

Peter,

I will try (tomorrow) disconnecting the T connection and ground to the track. I had this set up when I tested analogue and it worked. I have seen other advice regarding using the T connector. The S88 instructions show both setups and so it is confusing.

Thanks for the suggestions. As others have said, this is a great website for help and information!BigGrin




Harvey,

How about taking a new unused reed switch, don't cut the ends, connect it to the S88 and test.

marklin-users.net forum » General topics » Digital » s88

http://www.marklin-users...aspx?g=posts&t=15726


and I see you wired it as per figure #4 as suggested by Peter.


http://www.majhost.com/g...odeltog/Maerklin/s88.jpg


Might need some stronger magnets?


Check Peter's posts #3, 6, and 8 here.

http://www.marklin-users...aspx?g=posts&t=12222



Regards,


Thomas




Edited by user 01 November 2010 02:51:30(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline Harvey  
#12 Posted : 02 November 2010 03:28:03(UTC)
Harvey

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Posts: 358
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Here is an update.

I disconnected all reeds except 1 Marklin reed. I connected this following diagram 3 in the S88 manual (not using the T ground). It worked!. I will try connecting 2 Marklin reeds another time.

I next tried a non-marklin reeds, using diagram 4 (using the T ground). Initially, I left the Marklin reed connected and the CS began cycling through and reset the marklin reed. The non marklin reed did not respond to 1 or 2 magnets. I disconnected the Marklin reed and tested again. No success. I tried several non marklin reeds and no success. I received the insider magazine and so I will take a break. I will retest non marklin reeds in analogue to assure they work. I had done this when I first built them and so assume they still work. The way I build the reeds was to use two pointy nose pliers to bend the stiff wire (I only broke 1) and drilled holes in the M track. I used shrink wrap insulation. I soldered regular (Marklin) wire to the reed stiff wire. Again, as this worked in analogue, I feel my problem is not the reeds.

So far,it seems one can not mix marklin and non-marklin reeds as once I connect to the T ground, the CS begins to cycle through and reset to what is in memory. This seems odd. Suggesting something else is wrong.

Well, my thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I will keep trying and update this string.

Regards,

Harvey
Offline David Dewar  
#13 Posted : 02 November 2010 11:36:59(UTC)
David Dewar


Joined: 31/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,028
Location: Scotland
I see Thomas found my thread on this. I decided to give up reeds and used the 24995 contact tracks. Not of course ideal for everything you want to do but I did find them more reliable.

dave
Offline Harvey  
#14 Posted : 03 November 2010 02:16:44(UTC)
Harvey

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Posts: 358
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Here is a partial update.

I used the universal remote 7245 to test the non-marklin (and 1 marklin) reeds. All worked (except 1 non marklin reed). I attached one reed to my layout, using diagram 4 of the S88 manual and no reaction when I rolled a freight car with 2 magnets. I then confirmed current was reaching the S88 (attached a bulb to the return loop wire (brown) and the red loop wire (from the CS2). In my prior testing I know a signal reaches the S88 (when I hooked up only 1 Marklin reed with diagram 3, it worked).

So, my situation remains that non-marklin reeds are not working with S88 with diagram 4 (tomorrow, I will try diagram 3). And, if I use a marklin reed with diagram 4, the CS2 automatically activates the memory.

I assume others use both Marklin and non Marklin reeds. Do you use only one of the suggested methods of wiring?

I will be forwarding this thread to Dr. Tom Catherall.

(Now, onto FIRST Robotics with my wife).

Harvey
Offline river6109  
#15 Posted : 03 November 2010 08:33:33(UTC)
river6109

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Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Harvey,
Another issue has been mentioned with reed contacts is, don't bend the wire, apparently it looses voltage and this is one thing you can try, what is the voltage.

John
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Offline Pavle  
#16 Posted : 03 November 2010 18:24:42(UTC)
Pavle


Joined: 21/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 206
Location: Netherlands
Harvey wrote:


I assume others use both Marklin and non Marklin reeds. Do you use only one of the suggested methods of wiring?



Hi Harvey,

Correct: I use both Märklin and Viessman reeds. I never use the T-bone on the S88, so I guess that makes it "diagram 3" (don't know where I put the S88-documentation, so I can't see these diagrams).

And I must say: they work perfectly, never any problems.

Good luck with further testing.
Peter
Offline GSRR  
#17 Posted : 03 November 2010 19:05:59(UTC)
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Offline dntower85  
#18 Posted : 03 November 2010 19:48:00(UTC)
dntower85

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Some one please correct me if I am wrong, but when using the Ground (T) but I thought I remember reading it is best to run a ground wire to the other (T) so the circuit did not have to be complete through the entire S88 system.
Confused
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail

era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
Offline GSRR  
#19 Posted : 03 November 2010 19:52:46(UTC)
GSRR

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Harvey wrote:


I will be forwarding this thread to Dr. Tom Catherall.


Harvey




Harvey,

Have you heard back?



r/Thomas


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Offline Harvey  
#20 Posted : 03 November 2010 22:43:54(UTC)
Harvey

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Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 358
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Below is what I sent to Tom and his response. I just arrived home and so not time for additional testing. My next steps are to
1. trace all wires from CS2 to S88, checking alignment of cable connectors (I doubt this is issue as marklin reed works)
2. not sure how to, but test voltage drop across non marklin reeds as I did bend the wires (but these work with blue transformers in anologue)
3. try different wiring combinations. Puzzling that when I connect non Marklin and Marklin, the Marklin malfunctions. Sounds like I have a wiring issue.
4. Maybe I bought the wrong reeds. Farnell part number 1079468 10W. Could be, could a member send me the part number they ordered from Farnell.


> Tom,
>
> It may be easier to follow my questions if you look at Marklin-users.net under Help With Layout/ Model railroad wiring/S88
>
> I have both Marklin and non marklin reeds and have tested both with a universal switch (analogue). When I connect to my CS2 and S88 I incur the following:
>
> - with only Marklin reed, the S88/reed works if I use diagram 3 in in the S88 manual - 1 wire to track, 1 wire to S88. If I use diagram 4, I hear and see the memory cycle through and initiate any programmed instructions, independent of a magnet passing over the reed.
> - with a non-marklin reed I try diagram 4. It doesn't work. If I connect a marklin reed (diagram 3) along with a non-marklin reed (diagram 4) I encounter the problem described above.
>
> The Marklin-user members are stumped for the moment.
>
> Other things that may help. When I connect the non marklin reed (diagram 4) I use the T connector next to plug #1. Tomorrow I will try the other side, next to plug #16.
> I confirmed current flows back to the CS2.

Sorry,I can't help you with the non-Märklin reeds. There are so many different types of reeds, I don't know what you are using. There are some that are always closed and open when the magnet passes, there are some that latch when the magnet passes over and there are some that close when the magnet passes over.

I use reeds a lot with the CS2 and I connect to the ground on the s88, it doesn't matter which one, they are both connected together inside.
The other end of the reed then connects to one of the numbered sockets.

You can test the reed by putting a light bulb to the empty wire and to the yellow socket on a transformer. When the reed is closed the light should go on.

Offline GSRR  
#21 Posted : 03 November 2010 23:11:26(UTC)
GSRR

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Location: USA
Harvey,

it appears that you bought the same ones that Peter recommended.

http://uk.farnell.com/me...ed-switch-10w/dp/1079468

The Marklin 7555 has a max switching current of 2 amps. Compare that to the date sheet for the Farnell reeds.

Can you find some more Marklin 7555 reeds?


r/Thomas


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Offline Harvey  
#22 Posted : 03 November 2010 23:46:55(UTC)
Harvey

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Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 358
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Thomas,

I have not recently looked for 7555 as availability was limited several months ago and they are relatively expensive. However, if I don't resolve my issue I will need to buy them.

Thanks for confirming I bought the same part number as someone who has had success.

In thinking about one suggestion - not to bend the post. I wonder why that would cause a voltage drop or other issue. The post is no thinner or thicker than when straight. But electricity is a mystery.

Regards,

Harvey
Offline GSRR  
#23 Posted : 04 November 2010 00:25:30(UTC)
GSRR

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Harvey wrote:
Thomas,

I have not recently looked for 7555 as availability was limited several months ago and they are relatively expensive. However, if I don't resolve my issue I will need to buy them.

Thanks for confirming I bought the same part number as someone who has had success.

In thinking about one suggestion - not to bend the post. I wonder why that would cause a voltage drop or other issue. The post is no thinner or thicker than when straight. But electricity is a mystery.

Regards,

Harvey



Harvey,

Expensive is an understatement. I'm only guessing but I would say that people are bending the wire and placing stress on the inner core, breaking it. If you are going to bend the wire I would grab the wire flush to the inner core then bend the wire?

r/Thomas

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Offline GSRR  
#24 Posted : 04 November 2010 00:27:16(UTC)
GSRR

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dntower85 wrote:
Some one please correct me if I am wrong, but when using the Ground (T) but I thought I remember reading it is best to run a ground wire to the other (T) so the circuit did not have to be complete through the entire S88 system.
Confused




Quote from Dr. Catherall

I use reeds a lot with the CS2 and I connect to the ground on the s88, it doesn't matter which one, they are both connected together inside.
The other end of the reed then connects to one of the numbered sockets.


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Offline dntower85  
#25 Posted : 05 November 2010 16:48:26(UTC)
dntower85

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Dr. Catherall wrote:


Sorry,I can't help you with the non-Märklin reeds. There are so many different types of reeds, I don't know what you are using. There are some that are always closed and open when the magnet passes, there are some that latch when the magnet passes over and there are some that close when the magnet passes over.

I use reeds a lot with the CS2 and I connect to the ground on the s88, it doesn't matter which one, they are both connected together inside.
The other end of the reed then connects to one of the numbered sockets.

You can test the reed by putting a light bulb to the empty wire and to the yellow socket on a transformer. When the reed is closed the light should go on.



I did not know that there were different types of reeds, this is good to know. ThumpUp

I would like to find a reed that latches closed when the first magnet passes over it then opens when the second one passes, that way with one magnet on the loc and one on the last car it would work like a contact track that is as long as the train. Another benefit would be that if the cars came uncoupled the block would stay occupied.
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail

era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
Offline dntower85  
#26 Posted : 05 November 2010 17:02:10(UTC)
dntower85

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Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
dntower85 wrote:
Dr. Catherall wrote:


Sorry,I can't help you with the non-Märklin reeds. There are so many different types of reeds, I don't know what you are using. There are some that are always closed and open when the magnet passes, there are some that latch when the magnet passes over and there are some that close when the magnet passes over.

I use reeds a lot with the CS2 and I connect to the ground on the s88, it doesn't matter which one, they are both connected together inside.
The other end of the reed then connects to one of the numbered sockets.

You can test the reed by putting a light bulb to the empty wire and to the yellow socket on a transformer. When the reed is closed the light should go on.



I did not know that there were different types of reeds, this is good to know. ThumpUp

I would like to find a reed that latches closed when the first magnet passes over it then opens when the second one passes, that way with one magnet on the loc and one on the last car it would work like a contact track that is as long as the train. Another benefit would be that if the cars came uncoupled the block would stay occupied.


I found these http://www.meder.com/reed-switches.htmlThumpUp
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail

era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
Offline Pavle  
#27 Posted : 06 November 2010 00:52:17(UTC)
Pavle


Joined: 21/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 206
Location: Netherlands
dntower85 wrote:


I would like to find a reed that latches closed when the first magnet passes over it then opens when the second one passes, that way with one magnet on the loc and one on the last car it would work like a contact track that is as long as the train. Another benefit would be that if the cars came uncoupled the block would stay occupied.


Using a CS2? You might consider a contact rail, with two routes "attached" to it: one route for a train entering the contact rail, and one route for leaving it.
Does not work for the uncoupled cars though, but it's cheap.
Peter
Offline Harvey  
#28 Posted : 25 November 2010 00:17:04(UTC)
Harvey

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Posts: 358
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Well, I obtain some additional Marklin reeds and connected one wire to the S88 and the other to a common ground (not the T on the S88). And it works. I have tested by using an older loc (DB 151) pulling a caboose with a Marklin magnet. The switches and K84 work fine. BigGrin Then I changed loc to my BR 230 (39300) without the caboose and did more testing. On some reeds, the loc activates the S88 - activates switching tracks, turning current off. But the BR 230 does activate all my reeds, about 4/6 I passed the loc over.Confused. Obviously I do not want the loc to activate the reed. I have to test my other locs but assume I will have mixed results. I assume the BR 230 has a magnet relative low in its carriage. Not all locs would have the same placement. This makes automated running extremely complex. As best I can tell, the CS does not provide any settings that can be adjusted on the S88 (like it does for the K83 and K84).

I will see Jeff (Marklin) in a few weeks and ask him about this. Wondering if any members have encountered this?

Harvey
Offline Maxi  
#29 Posted : 25 November 2010 13:07:35(UTC)
Maxi


Joined: 28/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 757
Location: Wawa, Ontario
dntower85 wrote:
Another benefit would be that if the cars came uncoupled the block would stay occupied.


The only question is, how do you reset the switch manually when the system gets out of synch?

If there was a S88 with a memory for the inputs that can be reset with a command or a cycling of power then your idea would work with using traditional reed contacts.


Offline Harvey  
#30 Posted : 27 November 2010 14:32:54(UTC)
Harvey

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Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 358
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Update on post 28.

I have two locs that activate the reed/S88. 39302 and 39300. I tested both locs in my freigt and passenger yard and they activate some reeds. I swapped the problem ones and had other Marklin reeds that the locs did not activate. So, I have a work around. When the loc enters a track, it will not activate the first reed - the freight car or passenger car will activate the reed. This is what I want. That reed will shut current off, change setting to switching track. When I reactivate that track and the train leaves, it passes over a second reed. Here, the loc and the trailing car both activate the reed Confused . But this does not cause problems, as the command associated with that reed is to reset the switching track to allow another train to enter.

I have asked Jeff to contact the Marklin technicians. As you read through this set of postings, you will see I have had some interesting issues with reeds and S88. But now moving on BigGrin

Harvey
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