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Roco 69151 ICN released
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Offline mike c  
#1 Posted : 05 August 2010 13:33:33(UTC)
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mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
Hello,

I just received confirmation from my dealer that my Roco 69151 SBB ICN (AC Digital) is in stock and is being shipped across the pond this week. I am looking forward to receiving this item and will post a review once it is safely here in Canada. The photos that Roco posted in their August release bulletin have got me anticipating the arrival of this item that shows all the signs of being a gem.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline river6109  
#2 Posted : 05 August 2010 13:37:47(UTC)
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river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,715
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Mike,

Who produces the sound ?

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline TimR  
#3 Posted : 05 August 2010 14:10:14(UTC)
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TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
This looks to be an interesting model,
especially since no other manufacturer except Roco makes it AFAIK,

Keep us posted...
Now collecting C-Sine models.
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Offline David Dewar  
#4 Posted : 05 August 2010 14:56:46(UTC)
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David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
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Location: Scotland
Look forward to your review.

dave
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline mike c  
#5 Posted : 05 August 2010 22:33:25(UTC)
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mike c

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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
river6109 wrote:
Mike,

Who produces the sound ?

John


CORRECTION

This model includes an Zimo Sound decoder. I presume that they have sampled the sounds of the ICN. I will have to test it when it gets here to see how many sounds are available and if additional ones are accessible using the Motorola 2nd code feature. For those who are not familiar, some decoders allow you to assign the adjacent number to the one selected for the decoder, which then allows you to select sounds that normally could not be accessed using the 6021 and possibly MS as well. CS would likely be able to access all sounds directly.

Regards

Mike C

Edited by user 17 August 2010 10:56:59(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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Offline mike c  
#6 Posted : 05 August 2010 22:41:29(UTC)
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mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
TimR wrote:
This looks to be an interesting model,
especially since no other manufacturer except Roco makes it AFAIK,

Keep us posted...


A small production of this trainset was manufactured by HUI Modellbau. The HUI model was assembled using the components from a Fleischmann ICE-T. That model included the Fleischmann tilting mechanism, which incorporated a design to keep the pantograph level while the train tilted. The HUI model was very costly and required the purchase and delivery of a 7 unit ICE-T Set for conversion.
The Roco model does not have a tilting feature, but is much less expensive than the HUI model. I think that I will be very happy with the Roco model.

Here is some more info from Roco about the model:
http://www.roco.cc/filea...att_08_2010_Roco-Net.pdf

Regards

Mike C
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Offline gachar001  
#7 Posted : 06 August 2010 00:27:52(UTC)
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gachar001

India   
Joined: 29/04/2008(UTC)
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Location: Chennai
Nice looking train
Gautham
Atlanta, GA USA
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Offline nevw  
#8 Posted : 06 August 2010 02:01:01(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
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Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Mike looks good. Is there internal lighting Fitted??

N
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline TimR  
#9 Posted : 06 August 2010 02:04:33(UTC)
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TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
Hi Mike,
Would this Roco ICN would be able to tackle Marklin R1?

Another model that I would be keen on would be the SBB RABe 514 double decker trainsets that was based on the Siemens Desiro.

I think one of the smaller manufacturers would release this model for H0 this year (not sure which one), but I'll wait till one of the bigger manufacturers jumped on the scene.
Now collecting C-Sine models.
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Offline mike c  
#10 Posted : 06 August 2010 05:24:21(UTC)
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mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
TimR wrote:
Hi Mike,
Would this Roco ICN would be able to tackle Marklin R1?

Another model that I would be keen on would be the SBB RABe 514 double decker trainsets that was based on the Siemens Desiro.

I think one of the smaller manufacturers would release this model for H0 this year (not sure which one), but I'll wait till one of the bigger manufacturers jumped on the scene.


Tim:

At a length per coach of 310mm, I doubt that the Roco ICN will be able to cope with R1, especially not if catenary masts, signals, tunnel portals and such are very close to the tracks. Additionally, the old M Track switch indicators would likely cause the trainset to derail. I decided a long time ago to replace my original M Tracks with the larger radii K and now C Track. It is not too difficult to do if you have the space. One concept that I have seen on a few layouts is to have a large radii oval around the layout which would represent a modern mainline and then keep the interior (original) layout as a local line with shorter and local trains.

There was a model built for Siemens of the RABe 514. The manufacturer was a small Austrian company called Gollwitzer. I have heard reports that the model might be available from selected dealers in Switzerland for around 1000CHF. I doubt that any of the larger companies will make a model of the RABe 514.

I am waiting for a model of the new Stadler Flirt-based RABe 511 double deck S-Bahn train, which was recently delivered to the SBB. The SBB did not contract any additional trainsets from Siemens and ordered the Stadler version instead. I am guessing that the most likely producer of such a model would be Roco, Liliput or Hag.

Here is a link to a photo of the new Stadler trainset (R. Reiss) http://www.reissweb.net/ select "News" and then "Juni 2010" or here:
http://www.stadlerrail.com/ specifically: http://www.stadlerrail.com/en/vehicles/dosto/

Regards

Mike C
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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#11 Posted : 06 August 2010 06:14:54(UTC)
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5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,865
Location: CA, USA
Mike- VERY EXCITING!

Please post photos!
SBB Era 2-5
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Offline TimR  
#12 Posted : 06 August 2010 06:46:48(UTC)
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TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
mike c wrote:

Tim:

At a length per coach of 310mm, I doubt that the Roco ICN will be able to cope with R1,

Darn,
I'd actually prefer ICN - it looks more Swiss,
but for now, a Marklin TGV would have to do (SBB version, please)! BigGrin

mike c wrote:

There was a model built for Siemens of the RABe 514. The manufacturer was a small Austrian company called Gollwitzer. I have heard reports that the model might be available from selected dealers in Switzerland for around 1000CHF. I doubt that any of the larger companies will make a model of the RABe 514.

At 1000CHF, that was too expensive.

In any case, the Stadler-built RABe 511 double-decker doesn't look that much different to Siemens-built RABe514 (for my needs and taste), so should the bigger manufacturers picks up either of these two, I'd be quite happy.
Now collecting C-Sine models.
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Offline mike c  
#13 Posted : 06 August 2010 23:47:50(UTC)
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mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
The first detailed photos from Swiss dealers were posted today. Check suter-meggen.ch or bahnorama.ch to look at the photos. I was really impressed with the level of detail of the roof wires, inscriptions and am really looking forward to getting my hands on this model.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline Hemmerich  
#14 Posted : 10 August 2010 01:38:53(UTC)
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Edited by user 19 November 2010 01:44:39(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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Offline mike c  
#15 Posted : 10 August 2010 02:58:06(UTC)
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mike c

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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
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Location: Montreal, QC
Hemmerich wrote:
The "detail of the roof wires" on an ICN is really impressive (especially on those shown steering coaches)! LOL LOL LOL


If Lutz would have read the post correctly, he would have seen that the post also referenced a link to Swiss dealer "Bahnorama" in Bern, where a photo of the 5 units of the Set could be viewed, including the details of the roof wiring on the coaches could be seen. For those who are interested, I have provided the direct link to that photo below:

http://www.bahnorama.ch/...og/images/Roco%20ICN.jpg

Regards

Mike C
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Offline supermoee  
#16 Posted : 10 August 2010 13:35:53(UTC)
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supermoee

Switzerland   
Joined: 31/05/2007(UTC)
Posts: 534
TimR wrote:
This looks to be an interesting model,
especially since no other manufacturer except Roco makes it AFAIK,


Hello Tim,

there is another manufacturer who is offering this train since years. look here:

http://www.kus-prog.com/...llbau09/index3.php?id=43

Even with workin tilting tecnology

but I think you would not want to pay for it.BigGrin

mike c wrote:
I was really impressed with the level of detail of the roof wires


yes, really impressive. Particularly the buckled wire of the restaurant car looks very ugly. Seems to be another case of inserted plastic parts coming off that needs some glue to be fixed ThumbDown
I hope these are pictures of the prototype and not of the serial train

I do not like this train, but this depends from the real train and not from the model. Already the real one I find it not very estetic, despite off that I have done a lot of dynamic calculations of it when I was a younger design engineer

rgds

Stephan
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Offline mascagni  
#17 Posted : 10 August 2010 17:50:26(UTC)
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mascagni


Joined: 25/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 826
Location: Tallahassee, FL USA
Stephan: This is really pricey!! Even worse given the recent rise in the CHF!! I hope it's due to the tilting technology, but wow.--MM
Michael Mascagni, Tallahassee
If I weren't a Mathematician, I'd be a Violinist.--Albert Einstein
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Offline supermoee  
#18 Posted : 10 August 2010 18:21:19(UTC)
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supermoee

Switzerland   
Joined: 31/05/2007(UTC)
Posts: 534
Hello Michael,

this is a small series builder. You can compare them with a Micro Metakit. That's causing the high price.

The tilting tecnology they realised by taking and adapting Fleischmann parts. The other parts are nearly hand made.

I have seen one of them at a shop here near to me. The train looks really fantastic with all detail on.

rgds

Stephan
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Offline mike c  
#19 Posted : 11 August 2010 06:35:57(UTC)
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mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
Regarding my Roco ICN, I received the parcel number today, and the parcel has been processed for overseas shipping in Germany. Next stop JFK and then it enters the black hole that is the United States Postal System. If all goes well, it will appear at my office in three or four weeks.

Regarding the HUI model. At over 4000 CHF and not including the cost of the 7 unit Fleischmann ICE-T that they will convert into the ICN, it is a rather expensive model. In fact, HUI is now advertising only two units left in stock, starting at 4800CHF, which I guess includes the Fleischmann model at this price.

August/September is looking to be a good albeit expensive month with the Roco ICN, LSM SBB Coaches and likely the 37360 Ae 610 all being charged to my credit card at around the same time.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline Hemmerich  
#20 Posted : 11 August 2010 23:36:33(UTC)
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Hemmerich


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Edited by user 19 November 2010 01:45:17(UTC)  | Reason: Removed references to another member.
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Offline mike c  
#21 Posted : 12 August 2010 00:58:41(UTC)
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mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
Hemmerich wrote:
supermoee wrote:
The train looks really fantastic with all detail on.

Another Swiss train masterpiece from this small company can be expected to be seen -first time- in October at the Bauma exhibition. They for example also produce a swiss

The ROCO ICN is by no means comparable to that (barely anybody knowing this train real life, especially by top view, could ever be excited about such lousy roof wires ...Edited by Webmaster...). Internally the ROCO model looks similar "weird".


Another cryptic message from the master... ...Edited by Webmaster...

Here's my question: The Roco ICN is a mass production model with a retail price of under 500 EUR. The HUI model is a hand made small production model assembled from parts taken from a Fleischmann ICE-T trainset and combined with a plastic shell manufactured using SPS technology as developed by AGRU and Dornbierer & Partners in Switzerland. The total cost of the HUI train is around 5000 Swiss Francs or around 3500 EUR. To compare the two would be the same as comparing a Lima RBe 540 with the Lemaco model.

When the time (and my set) comes, I will provide my review of this model. I have not had the chance to examine the Roco Set from the top down, so I cannot comment on possible discrepancies in detail between the model and the prototype. Additionally, I have not seen the prototype "Graf Zeppelin" named trainset that the model reproduces. If Lutz or anyone else receives their set and would like to review it, I am sure that it would be welcomed here.

You have got to love the fact that the Roco model is criticized for having some minor detail differences when ...Edited by Webmaster... similar criticism of a Maerklin model.

For those who are curious as to what Swiss (model) HUI is going to display this fall, they are currently working on models of the RBDe 510 Mirage trainset. The final production models should be ready later this year. I am sure that Herr Hui is also working on some other projects as we speak.

Here are some photos of ICN trainsets from the main production series. Please elaborate on where the Roco model differs. I have also included a link to a photo of the HUI model for comparison. It seems to me that some of this criticism may be due to comparisons between the actual livery and the livery on the first delivered trainsets, like the one with the "Permettre le Futur" script on the top edge of the coach sides.

Roco model c/o Suter-Meggen:
http://www.suter-meggen....eiten_2008/frame_icn.htm

Prototype (Railfaneurope.net/Displayed photo with authorization of owner)
UserPostedImage
http://www.railfaneurope...e500/misc/090707-055.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope...misc/2007-06-23-0006.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.../RABe500/misc/ICN-_3.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.../RABe500/misc/ICN-_4.jpg

HUI Model:
http://www.kus-prog.com/...album/galerie4/icn00.jpg

The interior view of the Roco model and other photos and a YouTube video of the trainset on a C-Track layout can be found here:
http://www.forum.hag-inf...p;postID=61436#post61436
Direct link to YouTube:


Regards

Mike C

Edited by moderator 12 August 2010 21:31:38(UTC)  | Reason: Removed references to another member.
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Offline TimR  
#22 Posted : 12 August 2010 02:26:28(UTC)
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TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
mike c wrote:

You have got to love the fact that the Roco model is criticized for having some minor detail differences when ...Edited by Webmaster... similar criticism of a Maerklin model.


I do love it.
That is why my next new item purchase will not be from Marklin;
but rather be a first venture into other competing brands.
Goppingen can partly thank a certain "master" for his counter-productive advertising for having exactly the opposite effect on other members.

Edited by moderator 12 August 2010 21:34:22(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Now collecting C-Sine models.
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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#23 Posted : 12 August 2010 03:20:07(UTC)
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5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,865
Location: CA, USA
Guys,

Getting back on topic a quick question:

When any of you get your ICN with sound, can tell me if the sound is worth the premium? I'm planning on getting the full 7 car train, but funds are tight so might I might go cheap on sound if it sucks like the Marklin Gottardo. I'd love to see it with something like Marklin's GG1 level of sound quality or better.
SBB Era 2-5
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Offline mike c  
#24 Posted : 12 August 2010 04:55:36(UTC)
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mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
5HorizonsRR wrote:
Guys,

Getting back on topic a quick question:

When any of you get your ICN with sound, can tell me if the sound is worth the premium? I'm planning on getting the full 7 car train, but funds are tight so might I might go cheap on sound if it sucks like the Marklin Gottardo. I'd love to see it with something like Marklin's GG1 level of sound quality or better.


John,

if you check out the YouTube video, you can hear some of the sounds. The link I provided to the Swiss Hag Forum does provide a list of the sounds:

(Translated)
F0: Lights On/Off (Function)
F1: Sound
F2: Horn 1 (short)
F4: Horn 2 (long)
F5: Doors open/closing (sound)
F8: Announcement Solothurn
F9: Service Announcement
F10: Announcement Biel
F11: Boarding Announcement
F12: Announcement Olten

There is no detail as to what sounds are obtained when F1 is selected. The video seems to include some engine noise as well as squealing brakes.
It appears that the Roco model comes with a Zimo decoder and not an ESU Loksound, so I do not know anything about how sounds can be modified or adjusted and if this is possible with a 6021, MS or CS.

Regards

Mike C

Edited by user 12 August 2010 20:39:35(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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Offline supermoee  
#25 Posted : 12 August 2010 11:41:57(UTC)
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supermoee

Switzerland   
Joined: 31/05/2007(UTC)
Posts: 534
mike c wrote:


There is no detail as to what sounds are obtained when F1 is selected. The video seems to include some engine noise as well as squealing brakes.

Regards

Mike C


Hello,

the running sound is clearly hearable in the first 15 seconds of the video. This is very well matching with the real train. This are the engines "singing"

rgds

Stephan
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Offline Hemmerich  
#26 Posted : 12 August 2010 16:11:34(UTC)
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Edited by user 19 November 2010 01:46:10(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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Offline supermoee  
#27 Posted : 12 August 2010 17:24:05(UTC)
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supermoee

Switzerland   
Joined: 31/05/2007(UTC)
Posts: 534
Hello Lutz,

that's exactly the reason why I wrote it, to answer to mike's question. As I can hear from the video, the running sound seems to be good. This may make people who never heard the original more confident about the sound



rgds

Stephan
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Offline mascagni  
#28 Posted : 12 August 2010 19:15:44(UTC)
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mascagni


Joined: 25/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 826
Location: Tallahassee, FL USA
I have ridden this model many MANY times, and it seems that the sounds are good. But seriously, it is an electric locomotive, so the operational sounds are pretty tame, and even when you ride the train, how many times do you actually hear the horn?

The horn sounds similar to the TGV horn. Are the ICN and TGV sisters, cousins, step-brothers?--MM
Michael Mascagni, Tallahassee
If I weren't a Mathematician, I'd be a Violinist.--Albert Einstein
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Offline mike c  
#29 Posted : 12 August 2010 20:49:12(UTC)
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mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
Hemmerich wrote:
supermoee wrote:
the running sound is clearly hearable in the first 15 seconds of the video. This is very well matching with the real train. This are the engines "singing"

Stephan, very true - but how could someone who has barely ever seen and experienced this train live know even that? LOL LOL LOL

BTW: The prototype was also running at some time in a different livery than reflected by the ROCO model. Wink


I must confess that I indeed have barely seen or experienced this train, especially not in Zuerich HB, nor on the route between Zuerich and St. Gallen nor between Zuerich and Solothurn and I barely have the photographs to show that.Blink LOL Flapper . Having heard the sounds mostly from the inside of the trainset, whereas the decoder should provide sounds as heard externally, I cannot tell whether it is exact or similar (say a Re 460).

The livery of the Roco model is supposed to be the current livery. It does not reflect the livery of the trainsets at delivery and does not have inscriptions at the top of the sides of the coaches, nor the Expo '02 markings that decorated some of the trainsets at that time.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline mascagni  
#30 Posted : 12 August 2010 20:57:06(UTC)
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mascagni


Joined: 25/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 826
Location: Tallahassee, FL USA
I have taken this train from Zürich to St. Gallen many times. And from Zürich to Lausanne/Geneve many times. It's a great train, but my impression is that it does not that much faster (if at all faster) on these lines than an Re460 pulling standard passenger wagons.

This post begins to be more about the prototype, sorry.--MM
Michael Mascagni, Tallahassee
If I weren't a Mathematician, I'd be a Violinist.--Albert Einstein
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Offline mike c  
#31 Posted : 12 August 2010 20:57:58(UTC)
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mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
Getting into more serious details about the model, can any of our experts please provide some information on the decoder included with the Roco model and it's compatibility with Maerklin's 6021, Mobile Station and Central Station. Which sounds can be controlled by which controller? Does this new Zimo decoder allow for 2nd Motorola Number for F5-F8 as does the ESU standard Loksound? Can functions (ie lighting (dimmer)) be adjusted using a Maerklin controller or is a Zimo controller required?
Can the Lok Address be set from a 6021/MS/CS?
Are other brands also getting away from ESU for OEM decoders? Are there advantages to the new Zimo or should we consider going for the non sound version and installing an ESU Loksound decoder ourselves?

Reply can be made here or in a new thread in the digital topic.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline mike c  
#32 Posted : 12 August 2010 21:04:50(UTC)
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mike c

Canada   
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Location: Montreal, QC
mascagni wrote:
I have taken this train from Zürich to St. Gallen many times. And from Zürich to Lausanne/Geneve many times. It's a great train, but my impression is that it does not (go) that much faster (if at all faster) on these lines than an Re460 pulling standard passenger wagons.

This post begins to be more about the prototype, sorry.--MM


The lines that the trainsets travel on have speed limits that are set by the railroad. The tilting technology enables the train to go at maximum permitted speed for most of the route. A locomotive pulled consist, even with a powerful Re 460 would likely have to slow down a little more when passing through stations/junctions and on certain other sections of the route. I think that the technology saves only a couple of minutes on the St. Gallen to Zuerich route compared to a Re 460 with EWIV or IC2000 pendelzug.

...and for the record. Discussing the prototype in a thread about the model is welcome. It still provides members with more information about the model (indirectly).

Regards

Mike C
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Offline Webmaster  
#33 Posted : 12 August 2010 21:43:52(UTC)
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Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
Regarding ...Edited by Webmaster...

Boys, I don't think you can read eachother's minds - so there is no need to assume what your "main opponent" in the argument thinks... Smile
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Offline Unholz  
#34 Posted : 12 August 2010 23:41:24(UTC)
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Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,392
Location: Switzerland
mike c wrote:

Can functions (ie lighting (dimmer)) be adjusted using a Maerklin controller or is a Zimo controller required?
Can the Lok Address be set from a 6021/MS/CS?
Are other brands also getting away from ESU for OEM decoders? Are there advantages to the new Zimo or should we consider going for the non sound version and installing an ESU Loksound decoder ourselves?


Although I am absolutely no digital expert, I can report that

a) Zimo (non-sound) decoders are currently also turning up in certain HAG locos due to ESU "supply shortages"
b) a Zimo decoder factory installed by HAG in one of my Ae 4/7's demonstrates superb running qualities
c) a friend of mine performed adjustments on a Zimo-controlled loco with an ESU ECoS command station, which leads me to the assumption that also a Marklin controller could be used.
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Offline David Dewar  
#35 Posted : 13 August 2010 01:31:27(UTC)
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David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
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Location: Scotland
I used Zimo decoders when running two rail many years ago and found them to be very good.
Nice to see HAG is now fitting them and although all HAG models (mine anyway) run very well I am sure Zimo decoders will continue to ensure HAG are among the best runners available.
I would have thought that Zimo would ensure their product will be compatible with Marklin controllers.

dave
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline supermoee  
#36 Posted : 13 August 2010 14:56:05(UTC)
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supermoee

Switzerland   
Joined: 31/05/2007(UTC)
Posts: 534
mascagni wrote:
I have taken this train from Zürich to St. Gallen many times. And from Zürich to Lausanne/Geneve many times. It's a great train, but my impression is that it does not that much faster (if at all faster) on these lines than an Re460 pulling standard passenger wagons.

This post begins to be more about the prototype, sorry.--MM


Hello Michael,

the tilting technology is bringing no advantage on straight lines (or with wides curves). The big advantage is coming on very curvy lines, where the tilting technology permits to run faster through narrow curves.

On development phase the ICN was meant to run on the Gottard line, where the max speed without tilting technology is 80km/h. The track saving Navigator system of the ICN bogies was engineeried for this narrow curves. But in the first years of service of the ICN the train ran only on the west-east lines of Switzerland, nearly in a plane and straight. What a waste for this expensive technology.

since nearly 2 years now the train is running finally on the south - north relation passing the Gottard, the line for what is was built for.

rgds

Stephan
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Offline Hemmerich  
#37 Posted : 14 August 2010 12:19:41(UTC)
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Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
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Edited by user 19 November 2010 01:46:42(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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Offline Hemmerich  
#38 Posted : 14 August 2010 12:36:57(UTC)
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Hemmerich


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Edited by user 19 November 2010 01:47:06(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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Offline David Dewar  
#39 Posted : 14 August 2010 14:17:36(UTC)
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David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,341
Location: Scotland
Hi Lutz. Does seem a pity that Zimo could not support our chosen system as I think the more manufacturers that are compatible with Marklin the better. From a post above they appear to run well with HAG but anyway I a happy with the present decoders fitted by Marklin and I very rarely change them.

dave PS sorry Mike a bit off topic.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline nevw  
#40 Posted : 14 August 2010 15:19:05(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Hemmerich wrote:
supermoee wrote:
As I can hear from the video, the running sound seems to be good. This may make people who never heard the original more confident about the sound

Hello Stephan,

my statement was that only people who know the sound(s) of this train in reality are actually able to judge how well it is reflected in a model. One fact of sound which I have for example recognized quite often is this "funny squealing" generated by the wheel motors just after start.

(see also my posting at DSO. I could even point to a particular picture back in 2009, which shows the prototype with a specific livery detail that is not reflected by the ROCO model - thus every model has also to be reviewed in comparison with the corresponding prototype revision date/period which it should reflect)

There is no doubt that others just think that a sound might be ok, but that's not related to facts; no different than certain believes that this model would be delivered with an ESU Sound decoder. ThumbDown

Lutzie Dearest,
Most of us have not had the experience/pleasure of hearing the Sound of the real Loco, so as long as sound that are generated are approximate it will do. for an electric loco there may be airxompressors blowing ogg. horn, brakes and Maybe a motor whine ,
If it is not 100% correct the majority could not care less . there may ne < tha t1% who would object,
Just give some sort of realistic sounds,

AS far as livery goes as long as it reflects the years tha tit depicts tha tis Ok.
Who carea only you and a few others.

NN


PS:
Have you received your food parcel from greece yet????

NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline nevw  
#41 Posted : 14 August 2010 15:22:54(UTC)
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nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
David Dewar wrote:
Hi Lutz. Does seem a pity that Zimo could not support our chosen system as I think the more manufacturers that are compatible with Marklin the better. From a post above they appear to run well with HAG but anyway I a happy with the present decoders fitted by Marklin and I very rarely change them.

dave PS sorry Mike a bit off topic.



Dave according to herr Hemmerich if it is not Marklin it is rubbish.
Jsst forget the (whar did Macca call him, a shriffled dick?) i will just say richard Cranuium
6 months in the sin bin

Nev!!! Behave!!! /Webmaster

Edited by moderator 27 August 2010 07:31:23(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline mike c  
#42 Posted : 15 August 2010 01:45:51(UTC)
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mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
Back to the model. For those members who have been wondering what variant in the livery a certain member was cryptically hinting at in several postings, it appears that for a certain time, the RABDe 500 ICN named "Graf Zeppelin" was equipped with a replacement fairing over the coupling mechanism where the white area extended below the line depicted on the Roco model in gray. The Roco model conforms to the current livery of the model and not to the limited period where the prototype trainset was different.
Upon examining the photos provided by Herr Hemmerich in Drehscheibe Online, is it possible that the trainset was involved in a mishap and required some repairs to the front? If not the result of repairs, I would also like to know if the altered livery affected only this one end of the trainset.
http://www.drehscheibe-f...1885,4942893#msg-4942893

Here are some other photos of RABDe 500 with nonstandard livery:
http://www.railfaneurope...500/Zuerich/13920025.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope...0/Zuerich/500_020_ZH.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.../Zuerich/ICN_500_021.jpg

Here is a comprehensive list of RABDe 500 including photos of most trainsets in their standard livery:
http://www.railsuisse.ch...rabde500listeduparc.html

Regards

Mike C
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Offline supermoee  
#43 Posted : 15 August 2010 16:04:45(UTC)
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supermoee

Switzerland   
Joined: 31/05/2007(UTC)
Posts: 534
Hello,

I visited yesterday a MRR Club and they had the Roco ICN running with sound. The train is awesome and very well done. The way better than the pictures seen above. even on the roof everything was ok.

Mike, I'm sure you will enjoy yours.

rgds

Stephan
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Offline mike c  
#44 Posted : 15 August 2010 22:35:18(UTC)
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mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
At least one dealer in Europe is reporting that the 63151 model (DC Digital with Sound) is also available. The models without sound should be available within the next few weeks.

@Stephan, thanks for the report about the ICN in action.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline Loadmaster  
#45 Posted : 16 August 2010 01:40:27(UTC)
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Loadmaster

United States   
Joined: 03/02/2010(UTC)
Posts: 898
Location: So Cal


Hello Tim,

there is another manufacturer who is offering this train since years. look here:

http://www.kus-prog.com/...llbau09/index3.php?id=43

Even with workin tilting tecnology

but I think you would not want to pay for it.BigGrin

yes, really impressive. Particularly the buckled wire of the restaurant car looks very ugly. Seems to be another case of inserted plastic parts coming off that needs some glue to be fixed ThumbDown
I hope these are pictures of the prototype and not of the serial train

I do not like this train, but this depends from the real train and not from the model. Already the real one I find it not very estetic, despite off that I have done a lot of dynamic calculations of it when I was a younger design engineer

rgds

Stephan



Thanks Stephan for the link to HUI. I have always liked "BT" but have had difficulty finding their coaches since it is now "SOB". I have been looking for either a lok or powercar with the paint scheme of cream along the windows and green below. I know that their last color scheme was green along the windows and cream below. I just need to contact him to see if his models are ac or dc. I have 4 HAG cars with the cream windows, and I'm trying to assemble a complete train.

Robert
HOac and Z scale running SBB/BLS Era IV-V
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Offline mike c  
#46 Posted : 16 August 2010 05:47:23(UTC)
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mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
Robert, I sent you a PM regarding the SOB/BT. I hope that the info is of use to you. You may also like to know that a SBB BDe 4/4 (Hag) with SBB+CFF marking plus SBB EWI coaches and an ABt pilot coach (AKU/Agru) used to run on the SOB line daily. Linking this conversation back to the thread, BT trains could often be seen from the RABDe ICN in St Gallen Station.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline SINCrazee  
#47 Posted : 16 August 2010 13:38:33(UTC)
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SINCrazee


Joined: 21/07/2010(UTC)
Posts: 309
Location: SIN , ICAO: WSSS
For those of you who would like to see how this train works , see here!!ThumpUp



It runs smoothly on Marklin track.. BigGrin
C-track carpetbahn, R1 ,R2,R3 with MS2 and a CS2 plus Marklin and HAG trains..
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Offline TimR  
#48 Posted : 16 August 2010 17:24:12(UTC)
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TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
SINCrazee wrote:
For those of you who would like to see how this train works , see here!!ThumpUp



It runs smoothly on Marklin track.. BigGrin

Very good video, thanks for the link!

This train looks great and runs very well;

though 1/87 true scale definately look quite a bit too long for my taste,
especially in the corners - although those would probably be R4-R5s.
amazing how a few centimeters in the length of the coach can give a very different impression,
but then again, maybe I'm just not so used to them.
Now collecting C-Sine models.
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Offline Hemmerich  
#49 Posted : 16 August 2010 17:34:07(UTC)
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Hemmerich


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Edited by user 19 November 2010 01:47:46(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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Offline mike c  
#50 Posted : 16 August 2010 21:23:02(UTC)
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mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,892
Location: Montreal, QC
Here are some photos of the trainset that Roco reproduced in HO scale, showing that the model does correspond to the prototype. During it's lifespan, the trainset will have (and already has had) some parts repaired, replaced, temporarily or permanently, which differ from the photos and the model as released by Roco. Not every dent, scratch or minor alteration needs to be reproduced in the model and it seems that most modellers appear to be very pleased with the model.

RABDe 500 040:
(Trainset in front)
Also: http://www.juergs.ch/jpg.../sbb/rabde500/n3962g.jpg

More RABDe 500 Photos here: http://www.juergs.ch/bah...orbild/sbb/rabde500.html

Regards

Mike C
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