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Offline gachar001  
#1 Posted : 22 October 2009 20:13:22(UTC)
gachar001


Joined: 29/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,365
Location: Atlanta, GA
I received my used M* 37780 ICE 3 with add on car 43747 yesterday.
This unit does not reverse and the seller had stated that.
Yesterday I tried it. The train only goes forward. When I select reverse on the CS2, I hear a relay click. But the train continues to go forward only when I turn the CS2 knob.
Couple of members mentioned to me earleir to check if the power connections between cars is good. How do I ensure that?
They also asked me to check if the relay is working. Since I can hear it click, I am guessing that it works fine.
Also, the horn sound is just a short peep (nothing like my other locos). Is it normal? The speaker is not shot as the door sound is fine.
Surprising thing is that the restaurant car is the driving car. Not the front car.
Any help would be appreciated.
Gautham
Atlanta, GA USA
Offline old toot  
#2 Posted : 22 October 2009 21:05:45(UTC)
old toot

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 488
Location: christchurch, canterbury
Hullo Gautham if it is a analogue unit check the reverse unit spring is there, if it is missing the reverse change unit won't work as should, or also if it is there check it may be too little tension on it,( the bar to which the spring attaches should be normally at right angles to the reverse unit) which is also not making the change happen. The other problem could be that the wire that runs from the reversing unit has what we call in the electronics game a "dry joint" ie it looks contected but under the solder it is not actually connected so it only connects one way through the motor, if you have a multimeter just check that the voltage is getting through from contact to reverse unit, then from there to motor just work it through systematically, other wise if you have a local marklin owner who is considered the local tech guru get them to look at it
but then 37780 should have a digital decoder so it may be that is faulty decoder
regards bryan
were we pickit, packit and postit
Online H0  
#3 Posted : 22 October 2009 22:55:02(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
Hi, Gautham!

The click comes from the relais that shall always switch to the pickup shoe in front.
The direction change is controlled by the decoder.

You should also hear a relais when you turn on the lights.

With an isolated section you can try if the train always uses the front pickup or if the relais switches between them.
But I'm not sure if that helps to solve the problem.

The couplers have AFAIK 4 leads - I don't know what happens if one of them is bend or broken off. Have you looked at them?

ICE 3 always has a powered restaurant. Problem: only two powered axles (with a prototypical 8-piece train the wheels slip easily).

The sound comes from the 43747 coach with a separate decoder.

Have you tried a different controller?
I once had a M* loco that reversed with a CU 6021, but not with MS or Intellibox.

I presume it's a decoder malfunction.
Regards
Tom
---
Happy customer of Roco, Piko, Fleischmann, ESU, Brawa, Liliput, Rivarossi, Lima, ... - and will happily continue to buy locos that run well out of the box. I'm also happy with 95% of my Märklin items, but will avoid a few cost-optimized items made 2011 or later.
Offline TimR  
#4 Posted : 23 October 2009 10:07:59(UTC)
TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
If I'm not mistaken, the decoder on this model is a custom-made 6090x type that has to fit the entire length of the restaurant car; and fitted with two light bulbs at one end.

This is now out of stock btw..

Your easiest option is to get the restaurant car PCB from the new 37786 and a 21-pin decoder of your choice. The only difference is that the PCB comes with white LED interior lights instead of light bulbs.

Here's the good part;
Marklin seem to forgot putting the spare part number of the PCB in the manual or their sparepart database...

But I'm pretty certain they should have it in stock.
Now collecting C-Sine models.
Offline Ross  
#5 Posted : 23 October 2009 11:18:16(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 24/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 505
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Gautham,

I wrote a tip called "ICE 3 Running Improvements" on my pages under tips which may be of interest to you.

To test your problem of only working in one direction only, switch to catenerary operation on the restaurant car (don't connect any other coaches) and provide a temporary ground/masse wire connection as shown in my article and supply power to the pantograph. Test the running directions and if it works in both directions the problem is in the wiring of the other cars or the connectors on the restaurant drive unit. If it still runs only in one direction then the problem is in the decoder pcb and you should get it repaired.
Ross
Offline gachar001  
#6 Posted : 23 October 2009 15:47:28(UTC)
gachar001


Joined: 29/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,365
Location: Atlanta, GA
Thanks all for your help. I will try these suggestions this weekend.
Any other tips and suggestions are welcome.
Gautham
Atlanta, GA USA
Offline gachar001  
#7 Posted : 24 October 2009 17:41:55(UTC)
gachar001


Joined: 29/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,365
Location: Atlanta, GA
I managed to do some testing yesterday. Here is what I found.
I removed the add on car and the rear end car. Then I clicked on the reverse arrow on the CS2. I heard the relay click. Then I added the rear end car. The train went in reverse. However this was not consistant. Sometimes it still went forward.
So I guess the decoder is fine.
Now with the add on car also attached, if I click on reverse, the relay does not click but just hums. If I hit the stop bar on the CS2 and start again, then the relay clicks (but the train still goes forward). I am guessing the the relay is faulty or it is not getting enough power to switch.
What do you think?
If the relay is faulty, what is the part number and would it still be available?
Looking forward to your responses.
Gautham
Atlanta, GA USA
Offline Marius in Africa  
#8 Posted : 25 October 2009 06:12:07(UTC)
Marius in Africa

South Africa   
Joined: 05/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 346
Location: Boksburg, Gauteng
Hello Gautham

I have looked at the original parts list which was supplied with my 37780 set. It does not show the relay specifically as a part, it only shows the complete PCB as a part (no. 602512). On this board all the electronic bits & pieces are mounted including the relay.

If you open the restaurant couch and look on the relay itself you will see the relay manufacture's info. Why don't you try at a quality electronics shop, they might be able to find an equivalent part for you. The datails on the relay in my restaurant coach shows that it was made in Japan by NAiS. With numbers DS4E-ML2-DC12V and AG224344.

Good luck with the repair.
Marius in Africa

HO, ECoS 2, Märklin C-track, any country, any design, any era & any brand which i like.
Offline gachar001  
#9 Posted : 25 October 2009 22:02:08(UTC)
gachar001


Joined: 29/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,365
Location: Atlanta, GA
Marius,
I was able to find the relay and ordered. It does not look like an easy task to replace the relay. Hopefully replacing it will fix the problem.
Thanks.
Gautham
Atlanta, GA USA
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#10 Posted : 22 February 2011 10:12:57(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 13,735
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: TimR Go to Quoted Post
Here's the good part;
Marklin seem to forgot putting the spare part number of the PCB in the manual or their sparepart database...



Tim, would this be part no 123361 - Decoder mfx o.Sound Progr? For 37783 the part no seems to be 222586.

I have a 34780 ICE 3 that would be nice to convert to a Loksound.

Edited by user 22 February 2011 10:33:37(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline TimR  
#11 Posted : 22 February 2011 11:47:57(UTC)
TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post

Tim, would this be part no 123361 - Decoder mfx o.Sound Progr? For 37783 the part no seems to be 222586.

I have a 34780 ICE 3 that would be nice to convert to a Loksound.


I think this is just the MFX decoder - though the diagram is pointing at the PCB.

Back in the days of 37780/1/2/3 this main pcb and decoder is the same part.
Because Marklin reused the old diagrams instead of making new one (where is their photoshop?), there are quite a few discrepancies.
Model 37786 is still showing that it has light bulbs as interior lighting - they're actually warm white LEDs.

I haven't asked the Service center for the correct part number yet btw..
(been busy with Era III)
Now collecting C-Sine models.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#12 Posted : 22 February 2011 19:57:14(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 13,735
Location: New Zealand
Thanks Tim. I guess I could always email the service centre myself.


Yes, it is confusing, as the diagram for 37786 does indeed show bulbs instead of led's for the interior lights.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#13 Posted : 23 February 2011 01:42:46(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 13,735
Location: New Zealand
Tim, I think I may have found what we are looking for.


From http://www.stummiforum.d...amp;t=41947&start=25


"123 348 PCB € 14.95 (with LED for the end cars)
123 355 PCB € 14.95 (with LED for the trailer)
123 360 PCB mtc dining car ICE3 € 49.95

On the mtc-Interface you can attach the ESU Loksound + 20mm speaker and also has a loop back switch!

Would be added then two more times for the front lights:
123 346 PCB Lighting ICE € 14.95 (must also be rebuilt there, not compatible with the old)"
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
Offline mike c  
#14 Posted : 23 February 2011 02:17:42(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 4,959
Location: Montreal, QC
Gautham,

I was trying to follow this thread. You stated that the problem occurred when you connected the add-on coach. If you remove the coach and connect only the coaches that came with the original set, does the trainset operate and reverse as intended? If it operates fine, this is an indication that the problem is with the add-on coach. If the trainset does not reverse or continues to have issues, then the problem is likely within the trainset itself. The first thing that I would recommend is to put the trainset together with only the pilot coaches and the motor coach. If everything works fine, the problem is likely with the fourth coach or the add-on coach. Add the last coach from the set and test again. Do it again for the add-on coach.
To test the electrical connections between coaches, use a potentiometer to determine whether the appropriate pins at the end of the coach (connectors) are properly connected to provide through transmission from that coach to the next. If there is an error in wiring, this could cause performance issues.

Regards

Mike C
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#15 Posted : 23 February 2011 02:33:53(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 13,735
Location: New Zealand
Mike, I think Gautham opened a new thread dealing with his attempts to change the relay. I'll see if I can find it.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#16 Posted : 23 February 2011 07:25:03(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 13,735
Location: New Zealand
Marklin part no # 123360 is no longer available from the factory, and I suspect the others aren't as well. I also could not find any of them on ebay.

However, I found a link in Stummi's for a 3rd party board which has an 8 pin NEM socket for a Loksound decoder. Price seems reasonable at 59 EUR.


http://www.modellbahnwer...com/eigenentwicklung.htm


Stummi's thread here:


http://stummi.foren-city...ksound-led-beleucht.html
Offline NZMarklinist  
#17 Posted : 16 March 2011 23:50:17(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,308
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Marklin part no # 123360 is no longer available from the factory, and I suspect the others aren't as well. I also could not find any of them on ebay.

However, I found a link in Stummi's for a 3rd party board which has an 8 pin NEM socket for a Loksound decoder. Price seems reasonable at 59 EUR.


http://www.modellbahnwer...com/eigenentwicklung.htm


Stummi's thread here:


http://stummi.foren-city...ksound-led-beleucht.html



Hello David
A good find, I have an 8 pin ESU M4 I am intending to have fitted to my 37780 so this board here is the best way and saves me having to buy new boards for all 8 cars even tho I kind of prefer the results obtained with the 21 pin decoders where they'll fit. Dennis the train doctor does all my work btw, did he not save your CS1 with an idea about crumbs in the screen cavity I read somewhere. Sadly his CS1 is only half a controller and his second CS2 is at Marklin awaiting a replacement Angry
That said I just remembered he gets full screen when its ethernetted to his computor, but a bit hard to poke it in the right place for functions, however a good feature of CS1/Ecos is the screen capture BigGrin
Oops sorry, bit off topic againBlushing

Edited by user 19 March 2011 21:57:13(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#18 Posted : 27 May 2012 09:37:30(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 13,735
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
....did he not save your CS1 with an idea about crumbs in the screen cavity I read somewhere.



Sure did! ThumpUp


Just trying to do this conversion now, but there are scant details in the documentation that came with the board as to where the connection points for the motor wires are, and whether the violet AUX2 wire from the decoder needs to be connected.

The decoder registers on the Ecos, and I get lights and sound, but no motor control as yet!
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