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Offline thomasm  
#1 Posted : 02 April 2015 13:14:09(UTC)
thomasm

Norway   
Joined: 14/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 78
Hi,

I've recently acquired and old pre-build k-track layout from a second hand store. This layout consist of K-tracks and my main problem at the moment are electrical. It seems that I'm not getting any power around the track. mostly on the center-connector. This might be caused by the fact that this layout has been buildt in the 70ies and been stored for several years.

When i use a multimeter to measure the voltage, or just to check for connection, I have to scratch the center line to get connection, so it seems I need to clean or polish/grind the tracks.

Any recommendations on how to do so, without destroying the tracks? One suggestion i've tried, are mildly soaped hot water, but it didn't seems to do the trick...


.thomas
Märklinist, hobbyist and collector. || Trains are meant to be driven.
Offline kimballthurlow  
#2 Posted : 02 April 2015 23:56:16(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,655
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi Thomas,
The centre collectors have oxidised over the storage period.
There is only one way to remove the oxidation, and that is by abrasion.
In order to minimize the damage to the track, you need to use a very fine grit sandpaper.

You can buy fine sandpaper (or grit paper) at a hobby store, but you may be able to get it at a hardware store.
I use 1200 grade grit to regularly clean my centre pukos.
I would not use any coarser grit unless you are unable to get 1200.

Something like 600 grit will leave fine scores in the surface of the pukos, and is not recommended.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline Tom Jessop  
#3 Posted : 03 April 2015 02:19:59(UTC)
Tom Jessop

Australia   
Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 800
Location: Newcastle NSW Australia


Someone on this forum used a small piece of "Masonite" using the rough side of the timber composite to clean the stud's. Not sure if the Masonite was attached to a wagon or used freehand where it would need to be attached to another block so that it could be held when in use . I obtained a very old "M" track layout about 8 years ago & tried the method of Kimball's except I used Wet&Dry paper as used in automotive panel shops , used dry & found that it cleaned the studs well . In my experimental period [ read stupid ] I tried a Dremel wire brush tool but found that it also took of paint along with other damage to the body shell of the track . Good luck with what method you end up using 7 remember to clean up the resulting mess & apply some Trackmagic solution when finished cleaning . Trackmagic is a UK product & may be available in your local hobby shop , there are some other messages in this great forum regarding track cleaning, just use the search function above .

Cheers Tom in Oz
Offline river6109  
#4 Posted : 03 April 2015 03:32:55(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
if you have a Dremel drill you can use the polishing disk and remove the oxidization from the connecting lugs, the centre studs, I use a fine diamond grid plate and I formed it into a slider attached it to a ruler and this enables me to get into tunnels etc etc, another one I've made is again in the form of a slider and soldered a screw onto its back drilled a hole in a small wooden block and this wooden block is wide enough to stretch across both tracks, all in all you can adjust the height of the wooden block by drilling the whole the same size as the screw, the end of the screw I've attached a plastic dowel and this also is screwed in a.) you can hold onto, b.) it holds the block of wood tight.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
Offline NZMarklinist  
#5 Posted : 03 April 2015 09:23:00(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Hello Thomas,

It is indeed unfortunate that your track has degraded to this state !Sad

However 1200 grit sandpaper or even a finer grade if you can find some, would be the most likely thing for the job of cleaning up the centre contacts. !
If you search this forum, there are a few threads about it, I just did a quick search but there is too much to wade thru to find the answer I was looking for. So I went to youtube and found this from list member "Schwipple" altho we haven't heard from him in a while Scared



However your problem isn't dirt or oil, so being rust, I would substitute the microfiber cloth shown in the video for "Crocuss Cloth" which is an old abrasive cloth I remember my Father having, but I am not sure it is available anymore, these days ! So my suggestion is to glue or fasten somehow, the 1200 grit or finer sandpaper to the pick up shoe, or slider, of a small wagon as in the video, and by hand slowly run it over your tracks, maybe going back and forward a little bit over small sections of the track at a time ! Even put some of that Labelles 108 oil on the sandpaper if you have some Unsure

Rubbing the sandpaper on the studs with your fingers is too imprecise and your likely to be rubbing the rails as well which is a big no - no Scared

Do not over do it as you will take too much material off the pukos !!.
This will leave your studs clean but liable to rust again at the slightest onset of moisture in the air, even heavy breathing with the excitement of your trains running on the layout will be enough Scared Wink
So to counteract this I would apply a slight smear of petroleum jelly (Vaseline) to all the sliders of your loks and wagens and run them around the layout and that should leave a small enough coating on the studs to prevent the rusting again, and keep reapplying the petroleum jelly from time to time, but I am talking about just the finest smear with your finger !
I used to do this with my childhood M track layout to reduce wear on the sliders and never had any problem after long periods of disuse ThumpUp I also intend to use this on my new K Track layout I am building !!
If too much jelly builds up on the studs, but it shouldn't OhMyGod Go back to the video and repeat those steps exactly !
And just btw, I use a smear of Labelles 108 oil (as shown in the video) on all my sliders of my Loks after running on my current C Track "test layout" and before returning Loks to their boxes, I should probably apply it before as well, but it is recommended as a rail cleaner ! but as I said, I am intending to use Vaseline on the sliders for running on my K Track layout. Only a very fine smear is required, just the slightest trace is all it needs to protect the metal of the pukos or studs !
Best of luck with getting your layout running ThumpUp
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by NZMarklinist
Offline cookee_nz  
#6 Posted : 03 April 2015 09:24:42(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,949
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: thomasm Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

I've recently acquired and old pre-build k-track layout from a second hand store. This layout consist of K-tracks and my main problem at the moment are electrical. It seems that I'm not getting any power around the track. mostly on the center-connector. This might be caused by the fact that this layout has been buildt in the 70ies and been stored for several years.

When i use a multimeter to measure the voltage, or just to check for connection, I have to scratch the center line to get connection, so it seems I need to clean or polish/grind the tracks.

Any recommendations on how to do so, without destroying the tracks? One suggestion i've tried, are mildly soaped hot water, but it didn't seems to do the trick...


.thomas

Hi Thomas, are we talking about an original factory layout?, maybe something like this....

https://www.marklin-user...bmc/displaylayouts/0923/

Can you post a picture or two?

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline Tom Jessop  
#7 Posted : 04 April 2015 07:54:07(UTC)
Tom Jessop

Australia   
Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 800
Location: Newcastle NSW Australia


I purchased a "SCHINEN_BOY" track cleaner on Epay a few years ago , a heavy monster made out of brass which could be towed behind a engine to clean tracks .. The previous owner had also made a modification to body to enable it to also clean Catenary . The part that did the track cleaning was free floating & all its weight was on the track , a piece of well used 2000 wet & dry was attached by screws to the base with a additional piece of copper strip in the centre to clean the pucko's . On paper you would think it would do a good & easy job on the tracks but it was very different in real life , the drag was quite high causing the pulling engine to have difficulty to move , the coupler kept being pulled out of its box on the bogie . I found it easier just to use the track cleaning block by hand before I ran trains , then I would use one of the "M" felt pad equipped wagons to lay a light coat of Track Magic on the newly clean surface . A few photos below .

Cheers Tom in Oz
Tom Jessop attached the following image(s):
20150404_161640[1].jpg
20150404_161814[1].jpg
20150404_161735[1].jpg
20150404_161655[1].jpg
Offline Dangermouse  
#8 Posted : 08 April 2015 00:00:36(UTC)
Dangermouse

United Kingdom   
Joined: 01/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 115
Location: Wales
Buy a specific track cleaning block rather than using sandpaper.

These are made from a very fine abrasive mixed with rubber, aren't that expensive to buy and last for years. I'm still using a Peco one I bought at least fifteen years ago. It's basically a hand-held version of the cleaning blocks under the track cleaning wagons you can buy.
You can never have too many Silberlinge
Offline baggio  
#9 Posted : 11 April 2015 04:10:17(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
I don't think a "track" cleaning wagon would do you. What you want to clean are the studs and the wagon would only clean the tracks. Having said that, perhaps cleaning the track itself would help a lot in letting the current flow.

I bought recently. one such wagon from Marklin for the tracks (46049), not the studs, and I got good results. I started doing this after one loco got junk on it from the tracks and was wobbling. Now it runs perfectly again. BigGrin

I like getting the pads wet with rubbing alcohol (Isopropyl) before I run the wagon around the track. After I have run the wagon many times, I then clean the pads with a cloth wet with Isopropyl and run the wagon again. The wagon comes with two more sets of pads but you should not discard the first pair until it clearly is too dirty. I am still on my first pair. My local dealer says these pads last a very long time.

Again, this has to do with cleaning the tracks.

As for the studs, then I would use sand paper. I have never done it yet and it should really not be a problem in normal operation because the shoe itself normally cleans the studs. Your case may be different.

Incidentally, you can also clean the tracks manually with a lint-free cloth and Isopropyl. Obviously, before the track is laid down. Doing it manually afterward would be a big job, unless your layout is very small.

Below is a picture of the wagon I bought.

Hope this helps.

baggio attached the following image(s):
46049 - vagone pulisci binari.jpg
Offline thomasm  
#10 Posted : 13 April 2015 20:33:09(UTC)
thomasm

Norway   
Joined: 14/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 78
Hi all,

Lot of great suggestions here. I think ill try the sandpaper on centerstud-trick first. I belive the rails are ok. Atleast it looks like it when i use the multimeter. My biggst problem at the moment is time, so just be patience ;)

I think this is a preformed layout from NOCH dated back to the mid-70ies.

.thomas

Edited by moderator 14 April 2015 02:32:47(UTC)  | Reason: Added photos resized

thomasm attached the following image(s):
IMG_20150413_193817.jpg
IMG_20150413_193834.jpg
1-IMG_20150413_193817.jpg
2-IMG_20150413_193834.jpg
Märklinist, hobbyist and collector. || Trains are meant to be driven.
Offline baggio  
#11 Posted : 13 April 2015 21:02:54(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
VERY nice layout!
Offline rorosha  
#12 Posted : 13 April 2015 23:11:28(UTC)
rorosha


Joined: 06/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 57
Location: MECHANICSBURG PA USA
Originally Posted by: thomasm Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

Lot of great suggestions here. I think ill try the sandpaper on centerstud-trick first. I belive the rails are ok. Atleast it looks like it when i use the multimeter. My biggst problem at the moment is time, so just be patience ;)

I think this is a preformed layout from NOCH dated back to the mid-70ies.

.thomas


Looks like a Noch 8065 "Brünnstein".

Tack plan is available on the Noch Site - http://www.noch.com/pict...ene/8065_Bruennstein.pdf (If the link doesn't work, as many here do not, look under discontinued track plans.)

Personally, I do love those Noch layouts. I've got both Z gauge Cortina and Tessin, just need the energy to build them.

Edit by Mod: Updated link for trackplan (19/07/2015

http://media.noch.de/fil...3661_4d746a76168fed6.pdf

Edited by moderator 19 July 2015 09:52:34(UTC)  | Reason: Updated link

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Offline cookee_nz  
#13 Posted : 14 April 2015 02:39:38(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,949
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: rorosha Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: thomasm Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

Lot of great suggestions here. I think ill try the sandpaper on centerstud-trick first. I belive the rails are ok. Atleast it looks like it when i use the multimeter. My biggst problem at the moment is time, so just be patience ;)

I think this is a preformed layout from NOCH dated back to the mid-70ies.

.thomas


Looks like a Noch 8065 "Brünnstein".

Tack plan is available on the Noch Site - http://www.noch.com/pict...ene/8065_Bruennstein.pdf (If the link doesn't work, as many here do not, look under discontinued track plans.)

Personally, I do love those Noch layouts. I've got both Z gauge Cortina and Tessin, just need the energy to build them.


I agree, they are the next-best thing to the Marklin factory-built ones, (or maybe that should be next best to a personally built-from-scratch layout?).

What I particularly like about many of the Noch layouts is the extension modules that you can add to many of them, including this one of Thomas'. Lots of opportunity to add to the play-value.

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by cookee_nz
Offline cookee_nz  
#14 Posted : 14 April 2015 06:06:04(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,949
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: thomasm Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

Lot of great suggestions here. I think ill try the sandpaper on centerstud-trick first. I belive the rails are ok. Atleast it looks like it when i use the multimeter. My biggst problem at the moment is time, so just be patience ;)

I think this is a preformed layout from NOCH dated back to the mid-70ies.

.thomas


One other thought, I'd go easy on any abrasion method, you don't want to overdo it.

Personally, I'd set a couple of locos on their way around the layout and just see how clean the studs come up from the action of the pickup shoe, especially if it's only light surface rust on the tops of the studs.

You want your heaviest loco with the best inertia for the job - ie one that if there is a break in the connection due to poor stud contact, the momentum of the loco will carry it past that short section. I find a 3021 perfect for the role, or you could always double-head a pair of locos which are reasonably well-matched in speed. Analogues locos are best, anything with high-efficiency and certain motor designs (worm-gear drive) will stop dead.

Let the loco's run for a good half hour, their performance when they've warmed up will improve considerably and their momentum will improve noticeably.

Point your camera, cellphone etc and make us a video of it running :-)

Time... TIME??? - heck we're talking Märklin here, there's always time. Sleep is over-rated anyway, along with 'quality time' with the wife/kids/dog etc. You have to make your sacrifices!! Flapper
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline thomasm  
#15 Posted : 14 April 2015 09:18:19(UTC)
thomasm

Norway   
Joined: 14/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 78
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post


One other thought, I'd go easy on any abrasion method, you don't want to overdo it.

Personally, I'd set a couple of locos on their way around the layout and just see how clean the studs come up from the action of the pickup shoe, especially if it's only light surface rust on the tops of the studs.


I don't think this is only light surface rust. i have to use a sharp object to scrape the center studs only to get a reading on my multimeter. I've even tried to run a DHG-700 loco on a small section that I removed from the layout, without luck. It doesn't even light up its headlight...

I think I've found a nice solution for how I can abrasion the studs gently without ruining them. I've acquired an old and beaten up 4503 Low Side Wagon. This is a heavy little piece, that I hope to make something like the wagon "Schwipple" made.

Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post

You want your heaviest loco with the best inertia for the job - ie one that if there is a break in the connection due to poor stud contact, the momentum of the loco will carry it past that short section. I find a 3021 perfect for the role, or you could always double-head a pair of locos which are reasonably well-matched in speed. Analogues locos are best, anything with high-efficiency and certain motor designs (worm-gear drive) will stop dead.


I might have to check out ebay and get one of those lovely 3021s ;) There is something about the look of a V200. ;) Too bad I only have digital equipment right now...


Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post

Time... TIME??? - heck we're talking Märklin here, there's always time. Sleep is over-rated anyway, along with 'quality time' with the wife/kids/dog etc. You have to make your sacrifices!! Flapper

HEY! sometimes you have to prioritize! nowadays I prioritize work and money, so I can get even more Märklin ;)

.thomas

Märklinist, hobbyist and collector. || Trains are meant to be driven.
Offline thomasm  
#16 Posted : 14 April 2015 09:22:33(UTC)
thomasm

Norway   
Joined: 14/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 78
Originally Posted by: rorosha Go to Quoted Post

Looks like a Noch 8065 "Brünnstein".

Tack plan is available on the Noch Site - http://www.noch.com/pict...ene/8065_Bruennstein.pdf (If the link doesn't work, as many here do not, look under discontinued track plans.)

Personally, I do love those Noch layouts. I've got both Z gauge Cortina and Tessin, just need the energy to build them.


NICE :) Now I have a complete track plan.

I also notice that I might have to try finding 8095 and 8093 ;)

.thomas
Märklinist, hobbyist and collector. || Trains are meant to be driven.
Offline Dangermouse  
#17 Posted : 14 April 2015 12:54:10(UTC)
Dangermouse

United Kingdom   
Joined: 01/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 115
Location: Wales
Here's one of the cleaning blocks I was on about:

http://www.hornby.com/uk...ack-cleaning-rubber.html

Other manufacturers offer them too, they're a lot milder than sandpaper so won't leave scratches (which will collect more dirt later on).
You can never have too many Silberlinge
Offline MalinAC  
#18 Posted : 14 April 2015 13:19:37(UTC)
MalinAC

Ireland   
Joined: 29/05/2014(UTC)
Posts: 839
Location: DONEGAL, CARNDONAGH
I have used the same track cleaning block made by Roco for the last 20 years and it still has very little wear on it. It does what it says on the box. Take care Eddie Cool Cool
Offline thomasm  
#19 Posted : 18 July 2015 13:42:09(UTC)
thomasm

Norway   
Joined: 14/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 78
I've manage to make one train run on the layout! :D At least it moves;) Im currently rubbing down all the center-studs, and it is not only a boring task, it is also a time consuming job.

Pics and video will follow as soon as I have cleaned some more tracks ;)

.thomas
Märklinist, hobbyist and collector. || Trains are meant to be driven.
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Offline thomasm  
#20 Posted : 24 January 2016 21:26:54(UTC)
thomasm

Norway   
Joined: 14/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 78
ITS ALIVE!

The trains are running almost flawless on all the tracks. Now the only thing remaining are to build some kind of frame the layout can rest on, not just laying on the floor. And of course, the wiring, and lightning... but at least I now have a layout to test all my trains

.thomas
Märklinist, hobbyist and collector. || Trains are meant to be driven.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by thomasm
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