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Offline trainstamp  
#1 Posted : 31 March 2015 03:41:20(UTC)
trainstamp

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Joined: 31/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Springfield, VT (born in Philadelphia, PA
The subject says it all. I just purchased this used Trix Mikado but it didn't come with an instruction manual. This is my first foreign loco so I am not at all familiar with it. I really need to find out, first, where I can get the manual. I don't even want to risk running it without knowing if it has a dual voltge decoder. It is supposed to have a sound decoder but the former owner sad he didn't hear any sound so I hope someone on this forum can provide a link, (in English please) for either a hard copy or download for the manual. Thank for your help. I'm a new member.
Offline mike c  
#2 Posted : 31 March 2015 04:41:48(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
http://medienpdb.maerkli.../2/pdf/22802_betrieb.pdf
(You may have to right click and select "open in new tab")

Regards

Mike C
Offline trainstamp  
#3 Posted : 31 March 2015 07:38:43(UTC)
trainstamp

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Joined: 31/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Springfield, VT (born in Philadelphia, PA
Mike C.
Thank you very much. You have provided me with the exact manual I was hoping for. I'm wondering if you have this model and if so what do you think of it. Is it a nice quiet runner?
Richard
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 31 March 2015 08:31:46(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Richard!
Originally Posted by: trainstamp Go to Quoted Post
I'm wondering if you have this model and if so what do you think of it. Is it a nice quiet runner?
I have a UP Mikado from Märklin and it is excellent.
It's from the good old times when they still used motors with bell-shaped armatures for many locos. Good runner and very quiet.

Nowadays they use "a penny saved is a penny earned"-motors with many of their models ...
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline jvuye  
#5 Posted : 31 March 2015 09:49:01(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: trainstamp Go to Quoted Post
Mike C.
Thank you very much. You have provided me with the exact manual I was hoping for. I'm wondering if you have this model and if so what do you think of it. Is it a nice quiet runner?
Richard


Very quiet and smooth engine.
Probably in the top five Märklin steam locos designs... if not the best from a mechanical standpoint.
Sound decoders on the other hand are not at par with most of the competition....
But you should enjoy this one.ThumpUp
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 31 March 2015 10:39:20(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Sound decoders on the other hand are not at par with most of the competition....
Are you sure? I heard Trix Mikados came with ESU LokSound while Märklin Mikados came with Märklin's home-made mouse-piano sound decoders.
And the loco manual does suit an ESU LokSound decoder.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline GLI  
#7 Posted : 31 March 2015 11:04:54(UTC)
GLI


Joined: 28/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 82
Location: Lithgow NSW Australia
Hi Richard

I have a friend who has the same locomotive as you. It is a superb runner and the sound is excellent; it probably does have a Loksound decoder.

This very loco was reviewed in Model Railroader when it was released, and the reviewer said it was the best locomotive he had seen. I don't believe you will be disapointed with your purchase.

Geoff
Offline trainstamp  
#8 Posted : 31 March 2015 17:11:52(UTC)
trainstamp

United States   
Joined: 31/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Springfield, VT (born in Philadelphia, PA
Thanks guys for giving me such great inputs on this Trix loco that I just purchased. Now I will not hesitate to put it on the tracks to give her a maiden run. I am anxious to see how she goes. The ebay seller had a 100% rating but did not give out enough detail about this engine to suite me. I decided to take a chance on it, based on positive reports I had heard about and also because I was able to win the bidding at a very low price. I will let you know more about it after I run it. I am also hoping that it does infact have a Loksound decoder in it because I have read some good reports but never actually listened to one first hand. With regard to a smoke unit for this engine, I read where one can be added but I have no experience with the Seuthe smoke unit. I haven't removed the boiler yet so I may be surprised to find that the previous owner has installed one already.
Offline jvuye  
#9 Posted : 31 March 2015 23:19:07(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Sound decoders on the other hand are not at par with most of the competition....
Are you sure? I heard Trix Mikados came with ESU LokSound while Märklin Mikados came with Märklin's home-made mouse-piano sound decoders.
And the loco manual does suit an ESU LokSound decoder.



Hi Tom and all....
Didn't know the Trix version was outfitted with an ESU decoder...
Can only be good news in this case...
Cheers 🍻
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline trainstamp  
#10 Posted : 01 April 2015 00:43:45(UTC)
trainstamp

United States   
Joined: 31/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Springfield, VT (born in Philadelphia, PA
All I can say is WOW what an amazing engine and congrats to the Trix engineers for designing this fine locomotive. This afternoon I fired it up with my Digitrax DCC system. It started up right away with awesome sounds. It had already been programed with the 4-digit loco number. Just like each of you said it is very quiet and smooth running. I am absolutely delighted with it. The next step will be to print out the manual that Mike C. from Montreal sent to me today. (Thanks again Mike.) The only thing I might change is to reduce the amount of momentum that was previously programmed into it. I don't think it has a smoke unit because looking down the stack with power on I can see light down there from the head light. If any one has experience adding a smoke unit, I would appreciate hearing form you with the details on how to install one. I am guessing that it does in fact have a Loksound decoder because the sound is stunning. Excellent whistle, very nice sounding bell and great sounding chuff along with the other random sounds. I couldn't be more pleased with it.
Offline mike c  
#11 Posted : 01 April 2015 03:32:47(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
I am glad that you are pleased with it. My collection is almost exclusively Swiss electric post 1965. I have a few steam (3000, 3005 and 3029) that I inherited, but my focus is on the trains that I have seen or ridden on (pulled by) during my various trips to Switzerland. The single exception is the DB BR 103 but that has also since come into Switzerland, so it gained an exemption.

Regarding your Mikado, would these coaches go with it?
http://www.rapidotrains.com/sclcoach.html#nyc

Regards

Mike C
Offline trainstamp  
#12 Posted : 01 April 2015 05:32:32(UTC)
trainstamp

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Joined: 31/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Springfield, VT (born in Philadelphia, PA
Mike,
In the steam era, the Mikado was basically a freight loco, although some were built for dual service. So the Rapido cars in your link are most likely too modern for this engine. I do have several sets of NYC heavy weight cars that could be put behind this loco. Again I am very grateful to you for your help.
Offline mike c  
#13 Posted : 01 April 2015 07:19:13(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
I know that New York Central used to have lines from Utica to Montreal via Valleyfield and from Syracuse to Massena/Huntingdon/Kahnawake which connected to the CP line to Montreal. Those lines are currently operated by CSX. I don't think there ever was passenger service to or from Montreal on those lines. I remember the Delaware Hudson "Laurentian" and "Montreal Limited" (later the Adirondack) (via Plattsburgh) and the CN/CV/NH "Montrealer" (later the "Vermonter") via St. Alban's.

Regards

Mike C
Offline trainstamp  
#14 Posted : 01 April 2015 17:24:31(UTC)
trainstamp

United States   
Joined: 31/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Springfield, VT (born in Philadelphia, PA
Would any one know how to reprogram the momentum CV on this engine?
Offline H0  
#15 Posted : 01 April 2015 22:14:28(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
CVs 3 and 4, see page 27 of the PDF manual.

Setting CV 8 to 8 restores the factory defaults.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline trainstamp  
#16 Posted : 01 April 2015 23:47:27(UTC)
trainstamp

United States   
Joined: 31/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Springfield, VT (born in Philadelphia, PA
Thanks Tom. Another question for anyone. I plan on adding a smoke unit. After reading all the do's and don'ts, it appears to me that the #20 Seuthe smoke unit can only be operated on DC current and if you wish to run it on DCC, the smoke unit has to be removed. This seems to me to be a big pain in the butt. So then if this engine is run mostly on DCC I would either have do without smoke or use a smoke unit that is compatible with DCC and set the Cv's (#29) so that it won't run on DC. Does this sound correct? Also, is there a smoke unit that runs safely on DCC? I can't help but wish that Trix had gone the route of BLI or MTH steam engines, in this regard. One other way would be to hide a small disabling switch underneath that would cut out the smoke unit if it were to be run on both DC and DCC. Having to remove the smoke unit each time it is operated on DC would not be very user friendly.
Offline H0  
#17 Posted : 02 April 2015 08:25:15(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Märklin and Trix locos are usually wired such that a Seuthe #20 can be used for analogue and digital operation. And you may even get too little smoke with DCC, not too much.

Which digital controller do you use? You may have to add an MM dummy loco or fiddle with address #0 to get enough smoke from the Trix loco.
If you get too much smoke you can still reduce the power using some CVs (that are not mentioned in the Trix brochure, but you can get the complete ESU LokSound 3 manual from www.esu.eu). There even is a smoke generator mode for the function output that produces more smoke while the loco is driving.

I have some Seuthe #20 that do not smoke as expected and gave up buying those. I only fit smoke to locos that need a Seuthe #10 - those work better and more reliable in my experience.


Update: I just checked the loco manual again. It has the usual MäTrix obscurity level.
It does not say that smoke can be controlled digitally.
If smoke cannot be controlled digitally then you may need a Seuthe #24 for digital operation if your track voltage is above 16 V.
So forget what I wrote before the "Update:" and check how the smoke unit is wired. If it gets power permanently from both rails without decoder in-between, then #24 may be an option (but I would expect this to be documented in the manual).
Manual also writes that smoke generator must be removed for programming - this probably means it has a direct connection to the rails; if it was connected to a decoder output it would not interfere with programming.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline trainstamp  
#18 Posted : 02 April 2015 15:39:27(UTC)
trainstamp

United States   
Joined: 31/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Springfield, VT (born in Philadelphia, PA
This certainly is more complicated than I imagined. In order to install a smoke unit I need to know the current limit of the decoder but the manual doesn't give this information so this leaves me having to make a guessiment which in turn could lead to decoder burnout. Not good. I just looked at the esu link but it is in German which I can't read so I will try to find an American esu site. I like this engine but I don't like that Trix does not give out the decoder specifics.
Offline H0  
#19 Posted : 02 April 2015 15:45:24(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
English ESU site:
http://www.esu.eu/en/start/

Decoder manuals:
http://www.esu.eu/en/dow...anuals/digital-decoders/

Loksound 3 manual:
http://www.esu.eu/en/dow...manuals/former-products/

Current draw is only an issue if you change the wiring of the loco.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline trainstamp  
#20 Posted : 02 April 2015 16:07:42(UTC)
trainstamp

United States   
Joined: 31/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Springfield, VT (born in Philadelphia, PA
Tom,
Thank you for the English ESU sites but I still don't know which decoder Trix used in the 2-8-2. Do you have any idea?
Richard
Offline H0  
#21 Posted : 02 April 2015 18:07:01(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Most likely LokSound 3. Could also be LokSound 3.5, but differences are small.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline jvuye  
#22 Posted : 02 April 2015 18:46:36(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: trainstamp Go to Quoted Post
Tom,
Thank you for the English ESU sites but I still don't know which decoder Trix used in the 2-8-2. Do you have any idea?
Richard


Tom has already given you the right answer ( V3.0 or V3.5 ) but in any case, to know for sure, when you get your Lokprogrammer, it will read the info on the decoder in your Mikado and identify it for you.

Re: Smoke generators : older decoders had sometimes trouble delivering enough juice for smoke generators (Seuthe are known for a wide spread in electrical characteristics within the same type...Wink ) which is why TRIX probably wired the smoke generator socket directly to the power supply, and Tom is right that it shouldn't be present when you try to program the loco.
Once you know which decoder is present, you can retrieve the corresponding users manual from ESU website (free) .
Then you'll be able to determine if the (physical) AUX 1 or AUX 2 functions outputs are still available, and you could consider rewiring the loco and re-mapping the function inputs, so that the generator will be supplied/ controlled by the decoder.

This also will allow you to choose whether the smoke generator should be powered (or not) in analog, since the Lokprogrammer makes it easy for you to choose which functions are activated in analog mode.

When you start Lokprogrammer , a pop up window will ask you "what do you want to do? ", just select "Modify settings of an ESU decoder" (It takes about a minute to scan and get the answer)
Remember that you can change both the CV and the sound files, but these are different subroutines.
It is the best investment in user friendly model RR programming money can buy!
BTW, you can already download Lokprogrammer V4.0 from the ESU website (it's also free) so you can already familiarize yourself with the features.

(Note: I have currently no affiliation with ESU, except that I am a reasonably happy customer of theirs...)Smile

Cheers

Jacques
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline 3rail4life  
#23 Posted : 02 April 2015 18:49:07(UTC)
3rail4life

United States   
Joined: 23/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Northern California
Hi Richard,

Congratulations on winning the auction, a great buy, especially with the sound working.ThumpUp

I put a Seuthe #20 in one these and it worked fine, with no smoke function on the decoder in this model, there is really nothing to worry about decoder wise. I am pretty sure it an older ESU loksound made for Märklin.

Gordon

Offline trainstamp  
#24 Posted : 03 April 2015 03:19:34(UTC)
trainstamp

United States   
Joined: 31/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Springfield, VT (born in Philadelphia, PA
Hello Gordon,
You said you put a #20 Seuthe smoke unit in your engine. Was it the Trix 2-8-2? and did you run it on both DC and DCC without any trouble? If so, this is great news and I will get one ordered right away, as soon as you confirm this. That means that the ESU has enough current head room for the smoke unit so that it won't blow up.

Richard
Offline 3rail4life  
#25 Posted : 03 April 2015 06:11:51(UTC)
3rail4life

United States   
Joined: 23/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Northern California
Richard , Yes. it was a friends Trix NYC 4-8-2, looked like the same model as yours, it did not have decoder smoke function, and I only ran it on DCC with my MS2. I don't think there is any extra load on the decoder or anything to worry about with this configuration. It did work great, but is always on, which may result a shorter smoke unit lifespan in long run if you don't keep it filled with fluid.

I did not have a Lokprogrammer at the time I did the installation otherwise I might have been able to try something like what the good Dr. Eisenbahn mentioned with the function mapping and wiring the smoke to an aux output, If it another one comes my way I will give that a try.

If you are running it on analog DC the smoke may only work at higher speeds or not at all depending on your track voltage.

We enjoy steam engines that smoke, so we a have a pretty big investment in Seuthe products hereRollEyes.
Offline trainstamp  
#26 Posted : 03 April 2015 06:39:58(UTC)
trainstamp

United States   
Joined: 31/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Springfield, VT (born in Philadelphia, PA
Gordon, many thanks for your reply. I have to say that I am totally confused as to how to wire in the smoke unit, which by the way I just ordered. It won't get here for another week and a half. I think I am correct in saying that the ESU decoder has two aux. connections on it. Am I correct in assuming that I should connect the smoke unit to one of them? I think I will also find a location maybe under the cab and install a micro switch so the smoke can be turned off easily, like on the BLI engines.

Richard
Offline trainstamp  
#27 Posted : 12 April 2015 04:43:06(UTC)
trainstamp

United States   
Joined: 31/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Springfield, VT (born in Philadelphia, PA
It has been a few weeks since I last posted about my Trix NYC 2-8-2 and I've had a chance to run it several times on my friend layout which will draw out any problems. Two things that I have notice which need attention. One is that it stalls at slow speeds going over turnouts and the other has to do with the whistle. When the button is pressed on the throttle (Digitrax) to blow the whistle, the whistle will blow twice even though the button is only pressed once. Is there a way to change this so that it will blow only once and what should I do to eliminate the turnout stalling?
Richard
Offline foumaro  
#28 Posted : 12 April 2015 08:19:38(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,420
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
I have marklin Mikados 37973,37978,37989 and i never noticed problems on turnouts with slow or high speed.I do not think you can do anything with the sound,this is the way the decoder is programmed to work.Your choise is perfect,she is in my wish list,the marklin model of course.BigGrin ThumpUp
Offline H0  
#29 Posted : 12 April 2015 08:32:54(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: trainstamp Go to Quoted Post
Is there a way to change this so that it will blow only once and what should I do to eliminate the turnout stalling?
I don't have this loco, but some Fleischmann locos with ESU LokSound also have this "feature" - they play the sound when you activate a function and they play it again when you deactivate a function. With LokSound V3 this can be configured in the decoder.
CV 49, bit 7. If the value of CV 49 is greater than or equal 128 then reduce it by 128.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#30 Posted : 12 April 2015 12:43:26(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
The problem with stalling on turnouts suggests the pickups on the wheels need attention.

Does it have pickups on the tender wheels as well as the loco?

Do both bogies on the loco itself have pickups ?

If not adding these should help a lot.
Offline GLI  
#31 Posted : 12 April 2015 12:51:24(UTC)
GLI


Joined: 28/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 82
Location: Lithgow NSW Australia
Hello Richard

Before you attempt to alter the CVs, might I suggest that you try activating each function directly by their function number rather than using special function buttons such as the whistle button. I am not familiar with the Digitrax system, but I have noted on a number of occasions that European decoders do not always work as intended when used with American DCC systems. In other words, there is a degree of incompatibility that theoretically should not exist.

I do not have this loco (yet), but a friend does and though I have not seen it in operation for some months, I recall that it has two whistle sounds, a long sound which has to be turned on and off (I think it was function 3) and a shorter whistle that does not have to be turned off (I think this was function 6 or 7). I was using an NCE system and did not use the whistle function that I seem to recall that this system has (I use an ECOS or a Lenz system). The whistle functions worked perfectly when operated as outlined above.

If this does not work, then you will have to try altering the CVs as outlined by Tom.

Regards
Geoff
Offline trainstamp  
#32 Posted : 12 April 2015 17:07:05(UTC)
trainstamp

United States   
Joined: 31/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Springfield, VT (born in Philadelphia, PA
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: trainstamp Go to Quoted Post
Is there a way to change this so that it will blow only once and what should I do to eliminate the turnout stalling?
I don't have this loco, but some Fleischmann locos with ESU LokSound also have this "feature" - they play the sound when you activate a function and they play it again when you deactivate a function. With LokSound V3 this can be configured in the decoder.
CV 49, bit 7. If the value of CV 49 is greater than or equal 128 then reduce it by 128.
javascript:__doPostBack('forum$ctl03$PostReply','')


Thanks for the CV info. I look at the manual but it was very brief and didn't have much information about the whistle. I will try your suggestion.
Richard
Offline trainstamp  
#33 Posted : 12 April 2015 17:18:22(UTC)
trainstamp

United States   
Joined: 31/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Springfield, VT (born in Philadelphia, PA
Thanks to you all that posted about my latest two problems. I am finding it much harder to find detailed information about this Trix 2-8-2 than I do with my American locos. Maybe this is just because this is my first European made engine. With regard to the stalling problem on switches, could someone tell me what wheels on the engine itself pickup current? I know the tender wheels all have pickup contacts and the trailing wheels under the cab have contacts but how about the engine's drive wheels, are they supposed to pickup as well?
Richard
Offline trainstamp  
#34 Posted : 14 April 2015 04:00:47(UTC)
trainstamp

United States   
Joined: 31/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: Springfield, VT (born in Philadelphia, PA
I took Tom's advice and checked CV49 on my Trix 2-8-2. I started by putting the engine on the program track to see how it was set and CV49 was set on 37. Next I tried several different settings to see if I could get the whistle to blow only once but on each setting there wasn't any change. It always blew twice, once when I press the throttle button and then again when the button is released. It looks like that's the way it has to be but it's not very prototypical and I can't help wondering if Trix meant it to work this way in this age of prototypical modeling.
Richard
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