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Offline marklin61  
#1 Posted : 06 March 2015 06:16:32(UTC)
marklin61


Joined: 05/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 101
Location: Tuki Tuki Valley
Hi all,

I'm looking at installing ( maybe ) ball bearings in a selected number of my older loco's. But have some reservations on whether I will see any improvement in noise reduction and running characteristics. So I am interested in what others have experience by installing these bearings.
My second question is what type/ size of bearings are used and where does one purchased them from.
Appreciate any feedback, and apologises if this subject has been covered before . My googling seem to throw up more questions than answers...

Thanks steve
Steve...............

Life with Pinot Noir, Chocolate and Marklin trains..........
Offline NS1200  
#2 Posted : 06 March 2015 07:00:57(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
Steve,

I wonder where to find those bearings.
I never found them but perhaps i have not digged deep enough....

The strain put on the drive motor and wheelsets of a Marklin locomotive is soo low that i reckon no bearings are required,it is just bare metal on bare metal i believe.
The number of revs of the Marklin motor does not warrant the use of bearings.

There are miniture bearings for sale for RC airplanes and RC cars,where the strain is much higher.

I have a job as purchaser in shipping and buying ball bearings on a regular basis.
These bearings are used in high rev. applications such as drive motors for pumps and separators,where high revs.will cause undesired wear and generation of heat.
Running such motors without bearings will cause trouble within minutes.
Not so for the average Marklin locomotive.

Paul.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
Offline biedmatt  
#3 Posted : 06 March 2015 12:22:27(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Hello Steve,
You'll learn a lot here: https://www.marklin-user...parts--motor-shield.aspx
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline Modelleisenbahnfan  
#4 Posted : 06 March 2015 20:43:32(UTC)
Modelleisenbahnfan

Germany   
Joined: 06/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 52
Hello,

I've installed ball bearings in three locos yet. If it is an older loco, who's bearings are used al lot, a ball bearing will birng al lot of sucess, espcially in noise reduction.
Your loco makes noises a bit like a real diesel? Then try ball bearings!
Also they are a good for the gear box (they prevents wear).

The size of the ball bearings should be: 1.5 mm inner diameter; 4mm outer diameter and 2mm height.

I by them here, but this won't be useful for you, because it's a shop in Germany.

kind regards

Robert

P.S.: For installing ball bearings, your locos must have the "HLA", I don't know, if it's possible if they have older motors.
Märklin, what else?
Offline Janne75  
#5 Posted : 06 March 2015 21:49:13(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Hi,

I have installed ball bearings in around 100 locos with DCM (drum commutator motor) 3-pole or 5-pole. Ball bearings reduce that DCM motors "coffee grinder" noise, but not completely. Motor runs more freely, but the gears have also resistance and make noise so there will still be some noise after modification. DCM type motor without ball bearings needs often small drops of oil, but when there is ball bearings installed this lubrication need is almost non-existent. When I install ball bearings I put a very tiny drop of lightweight oil in their inner hole. Motor shield drilling must be done precisely in the middle. Original 1.5 mm hole is drilled first to 2.0 mm, then 2.5 mm, 3.0 mm, 3.5 mm and finally to 4.0 mm. Also the brush holders can be positioned incorrectly and cause some unwanted excessive noise as the brushes are not positioned then correctly 90 degrees from commutator.

I'm very happy with all my modifications Cool . I feel like my locos are more special when they have been modified. I must mention that in many older Märklin locos from 1940's and 1950's there is a brass bearing in their LFCM type motors. Those motors run also surprisingly quiet when all is ok otherwise in these (gears, wheels etc.).

I have also installed one ball bearing in all my C-Sinus motored locos (replaced that plastic bushing on the frame side with a ball bearing).

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Janne75
Offline Modelleisenbahnfan  
#6 Posted : 06 March 2015 21:57:03(UTC)
Modelleisenbahnfan

Germany   
Joined: 06/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 52
Hello,

for drilling the hole, you can also take a center (or centre) drill (1,6mm -> 4mm).

kind regards

Robert
Märklin, what else?
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Modelleisenbahnfan
Offline Modelleisenbahnfan  
#7 Posted : 06 March 2015 22:06:49(UTC)
Modelleisenbahnfan

Germany   
Joined: 06/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 52
Hello again,

in every case, you should use ball bearings closed on both sides, that the abrasion of the brushes don't go into the ball bearings.

kind regards

Robert

P.S.: Commonly, you haven't to oil the ball bearings, because they have grease enough. Oil could possibly damage more than help, I think.
Märklin, what else?
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Modelleisenbahnfan
Offline river6109  
#8 Posted : 10 March 2015 13:57:42(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,725
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
I thank the honorable member Matt for guiding the member Steve to my topic which I can see has had considerable success and followers.

Paul I can assure you. ball bearings do help the motor and there are several benefits associated with. drum collector armatures or any other type of motor has a plastic motor shield or brush plate and we can now confirm the friction is between metal and plastic. for instance if there is no friction on the back of the motor = metal to metal, why is there a provision to add oil, furthermore you may have heard from members or sellers who sell locos: the loco hasn't been used for years and the motor may need some oil as it could be ceased up, although it is a hint but it doesn't work in practice. the armature axle is made of a different metal than that of the motor housing and therefore oxidation can take place. you may have noticed in later years the back of the motor had a brass insert and later again a plastic insert.
The most important benefits are: a.) the brush plate needs no longer to be oiled and this prevents from oil going onto the brushes and the 3 or 5 pole segments, b.) the axle at the back again doesn't need to be oiled, c.) the running characteristics are smoother and especially at low speed and this helped further by following my discovery about the motor shield or brush plates construction and assembly in itself and its deficiency.

regards.,

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 7 users liked this useful post by river6109
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