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Online H0  
#51 Posted : 04 March 2015 11:28:33(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,251
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
We all agree that there is no place in today's world for Racism, Xenophobia and Jingoism, and yet we keep hearing the same comments as soon as the word "China" is written on a box. We can rise above those feelings, surely?
Märklin managers talked so often about shifting production from China to Europe, about bad quality coming from China, about the bad state of moulds coming back from China, that some Märklin fans did believe that Märklin was completely "Made in EU".

Apple want to make sure that none of "their" Chinese workers have to work more than 60 hours a week. They didn't achieve that yet.

It is bad if people work 60 hours a week making toys, or clothes, or whatever without earning enough money for food and rent.

Here's a video about people making clothes:
http://www.aftenposten.no/webtv/#!/video/21032/sweatshop-ep-1-how-many-will-die-here-every-year

Without Racism and Xenophobia there are reasons to be sceptical about production in Far East.
Maybe I should ask Piko, Liliput, and Märklin how many of their Chinese workers have to work more than 60 hours a week. Same for Acer, Asus, Dell, Samsung and many other companies.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Online H0  
#52 Posted : 04 March 2015 11:40:01(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,251
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Did Marc and Tom swap characters?
I just try to be fair - according to my subjective interpretation of the situation.

If people over-emphasize the positive aspects, you will find me mentioning the negative aspects.
If people over-emphasize the negative aspects, you will find me mentioning the positive aspects.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline RayF  
#53 Posted : 04 March 2015 12:01:39(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
There are sweat shops everwhere in the world, not just in China. I saw a disturbing News report recently about sweat shops making clothing within the UK, but labelling them as if they had been produced in third world countries.

The way some people pick out Chinese production for special attention goes beyond any real arguments about pay levels and conditions, or even about the quality of the products. As soon as they see the word "China" all they see is a red flag and their worst prejudices are provoked.

This is not an argument I'm going to win, sadly. There is too much prejudice in the world still.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Mark_1602  
#54 Posted : 04 March 2015 13:02:45(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
Do you really believe that some models are entirely made in Germany right now?
Do not forget that the 400 Göppingen workers that remained after the insolvency 2009 have job guarantees until 2019.

Entirely made in Germany? Probably not. Rumours say the decoders are assembled in Germany, but the parts for the decoders come from all over the world. And current motors probably come from different countries, too.

I visited the factory in 2012. They were making metal loco bodies, they were painting them, they were assembling and testing complete locos and put them into boxes.
Due to the job guarantees I have no reason to believe things are different now.
I believe some Märklin locos are 90+ % "Made in Germany". Do American forum members sometimes see "Made in Germany" stickers on their locos?

Maybe I am wrong and the loco frames I saw had been assembled in Hungary.

But when Märklin folks say that some locos are made completely in Göppingen I take "completely" to mean "90+ %" and I believe that.
Not long ago you said the Märklin managers were no liars. Did you change your mind?

I still think they need a few hundred new European workers to pull out of China completely.


Hi Tom,

400 workers, but how many of them work in final assembly of the products that are shipped to customers? I believe what you say about 2012, but things might be a little different now. Why do you think that this year's Big Boy is 50 euros cheaper? That's unprecedented! Assembly in Hungary saves money in general. Why does Märklin have some free space for the museum within the factory building in Göppingen now?

I said that the new owners (not the managers) were more honest than the previous ones. I don't believe a word of what Mr B., co-CEO, says. One year ago five-pole motors [edit] didn't fit into steam locomotives, but this year there will be one in the new Bavarian Br 18. I've said before that I don't trust Mr B., but I've changed my mind about the China production. They can't pull out of China because in a shrinking market they would soon have capacities and workers that they wouldn't need.

Edited by user 04 March 2015 20:56:49(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
Offline Mark_1602  
#55 Posted : 04 March 2015 13:28:39(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Did Marc and Tom swap characters?
I just try to be fair - according to my subjective interpretation of the situation.

If people over-emphasize the positive aspects, you will find me mentioning the negative aspects.
If people over-emphasize the negative aspects, you will find me mentioning the positive aspects.


Hi Tom,

You just try to be fair to Märklin fans? This is the joke of the year! LOL
When you quote Märklin fans, 'correct' their posts and label them as naive because they like their brand, you are being FAIR! Very good!! LOL LOL LOL

In reality, you behave more like a state prosecutor here, but you forget that there are a few errors in your posts as well, e.g. regarding the history of Märklin. I think I'm not the only one who mistakenly believed that Märklin wanted to pull out of China. So what? The new Nohab and the S 2/6 are still great models, no matter where they were made. Cool
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
Online steventrain  
#56 Posted : 04 March 2015 14:21:56(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,594
Location: United Kingdom
I email question to Marklin and answer from him.

Quote:
Yes, we get a lot of projects from the Far East to Europe
and we will produce again in the future more in our own company. But this can
not happen overnight and it makes no sense for example for ongoing projects in
the amount of money, that has been invested, to change the production site,
since otherwise the delivery date is shifted very far into the future and the
cost is multiplied. There are still individual components and small, special
product segments that will actually be developed by us, but must still be bought
externally to be competitive with other brands on the market.

In general, we
make no statement to the production location of individual items because ALL of
them have to be checked and approved our products according to the same very
high quality standards. Regardless of where a product is made, the entire
development process (documentation, construction, electronics, model design ...)
should be promoted and administered by our staff in Göppingen, so the Märklin
product philosophy is reflected in the model.

Sincerely yours,

Your
Maerklin Customer Service
Frank Mayer
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline biedmatt  
#57 Posted : 04 March 2015 15:40:06(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
"...ALL of them have to be checked and approved our products according to the same very high quality standards..."

This is the only thing that matters to me. My expectation is a quality product. Whether that product is sourced in Germany, Hungary or China, is irrelevant.

What that level of quality is another discussion that I do not choose to involve myself. It will mean different things to different people. If the quality is not what I expect, I simply will not buy it.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline mjrallare  
#58 Posted : 04 March 2015 19:26:30(UTC)
mjrallare


Joined: 14/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 560
I can think of many reasons not to buy from China. Has nothing to do with racism, but everything to do with democracy, human rights and militarism.

Sadly I don't always live as I preach. A lot of my wonderful Olympus m4/3 equipment is made in China. Some of the lenses are superb! So good stuff surely comes out of China.

But it makes a big difference who owns the factories and where the persons who make up the local management comes from.

I don't want my Märklin locos to be made in China! It's not rational, it's emotional. It's not a problem if parts are made in different countries, but if it's 100% made in China it's a definite no. It's just not Märklin anymore to me...

We will never agree and everyone has to make their own purchasing decisions.

Anyway, many thanks to the thread starter for posting. For me it's very important information.

/Torbjörn
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Online H0  
#59 Posted : 05 March 2015 11:32:40(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,251
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
Why do you think that this year's Big Boy is 50 euros cheaper?
Same price as the unweathered Big Boys 37993 and 37994. They add €50 for the weathered version. This year's Big Boy has the same RRP as its unweathered predecessors.

Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
That's unprecedented!
They didn't reduce the price for the Big Boy when they downgraded the motor, but they reduced prices for the GG-1 and V 200 when they downgraded the motors. While this year's Big Boy is not a case of price reduction, there were other cases.

Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
Why does Märklin have some free space for the museum within the factory building in Göppingen now?
I think they have a lot of space since 2009 when they drastically reduced the workforce. I think they just have to move some departments inside the building to get a nice and accessible museum outside the factory gates ("workers only").

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Mark_1602  
#60 Posted : 05 March 2015 20:16:21(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Hi Tom,

I paid the same price for the 37994 than for the 37995 at two different shops, but now I remember that the second M* dealer gave me a bigger discount. So it might be made in Germany after all. Nevertheless, I wonder which models are really assembled in Göppingen now. Obviously not the Nohab or the S 2/6, and the new G 5/5 is assembled in Hungary. On Märklin TV they briefly showed the assembly of the G 5/5, and I recognized one worker who had also appeared in the video about the new extension in Györ.
I just buy the models I personally like now, even if they are made in China.

I still find it strange that there's suddenly free space in the factory. The assembly department must be much smaller now than before 2009. (There have been two extensions of the factory in Hungary since then.) If that free space in Göppingen had been there a few years ago, they could have moved the museum there to save money. Those free rooms were mentioned shortly after the new extension in Györ opened, so there might be a connection. If Märklin won't tell me that a given model is made in Germany, I assume it's not. It's no use buying something because it's supposedly a "premium" model. They won't sack any staff in Göppingen, but are those workers who retire still replaced now? Who knows?

Vintage is easier to assess because any problems associated with a model are well-known by now. No bad surprises as long as you find a model that's mint, no problems with electronic components or decoders, and the old stuff was made in Germany.

Regards, Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
Online H0  
#61 Posted : 06 March 2015 08:44:46(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,251
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
I still find it strange that there's suddenly free space in the factory.
Suddenly?
The Märklin-Museum was there until 1979 and from 2005 until 2006.
They had space in 2005 - and they fired workers since 2005, so there should be more space now.

IIRC they were showing several layouts in the factory during the days of open doors - maybe it was 2013. That room looked big enough for the museum as it is now.
At the current Museum they also have a shop, the "Fundgrube" (selling items with small damages) and rooms for seminars. Maybe they cannot move all that to their old factory. Maybe they can if they compact and re-arrange the shrunken departments inside the factory.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Mark_1602  
#62 Posted : 07 March 2015 07:39:09(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
I still find it strange that there's suddenly free space in the factory.
Suddenly?
The Märklin-Museum was there until 1979 and from 2005 until 2006.
They had space in 2005 - and they fired workers since 2005, so there should be more space now.

IIRC they were showing several layouts in the factory during the days of open doors - maybe it was 2013. That room looked big enough for the museum as it is now.
At the current Museum they also have a shop, the "Fundgrube" (selling items with small damages) and rooms for seminars. Maybe they cannot move all that to their old factory. Maybe they can if they compact and re-arrange the shrunken departments inside the factory.


Hi,

I agree that they must have had some space in Göppingen in 2005 because about 40 per cent (or more?) of the total production came from China then according to some estimates, and they had sacked a lot of workers between 2003 and 2005.

Here are some quotes from the June 2013 edition of 'Unternehmer Edition", a German business magazine, that had a cover story about the way Mr Pluta saved Märklin during the insolvency.

Mr Pluta: "Es war ein absolut desolat geführtes Unternehmen. Viele Mitarbeiter machten, was sie wollten. Unsere Hauptaufgabe bestand darin, dieses Chaos zu ordnen."
Translation: The company was in a desperate condition due to very poor leadership. A lot of staff members did whatever they wanted to. Our main task consisted in getting rid of this chaos to restore order.

So some of the 120 staff members who were sacked during the insolvency must have been unproductive. Another quote from the same article actually suggests that output in Göppingen actually increased during the Pluta years:

"Zudem griffen die neuen Verantwortlichen auch in die Produktion ein: Die Fertigung in China wurde stark reduziert, zugunsten der Standorte Göppingen und Györ in Ungarn. Die Qualität der Produkte aus Asien entsprach nicht mehr den Vorstellungen der Schwaben. Zudem hielten es die Chinesen mit der Liefertreue nicht so genau: "Wir hätten 5 Mio. Umsatz mehr machen können, wenn sie das geliefert hätten, was sie versprochen haben." Druck was das Mittel, das die Chinesen dann verstanden. Pluta setzte ihnen genaue Termine für die Lieferung, ansonsten hätte er die Ware nicht mehr abgenommen. "Sie glauben gar nicht, wie sehr die sich angestrengt haben zu liefern." Dazu kam ein weiteres Problem, mit dem viele Mittelständler, die in China produzieren lassen, zu kämpfen haben: Jedes Jahr klettern die Löhne dort um bis zu 20%, und doch ist die Produktion nicht immer gesichert. Häufig kommt nach Chinese New Year nur noch die Hälfte der Mitarbeiter wieder in den Betrieb zurück. Die Suche nach neuen Angestellten gestaltet sich dann schwierig. In der Insolvenz mussten in Göppingen 120 von 610 Mitarbeitern das Unternehmen verlassen. In Györ mussten vor allem Leiharbeiter gehen. Heute beschäftigen die Göppinger dort 700 Mitarbeiter."

I've translated this for those forum members who do not speak German:

In addition, the new bosses introduced changes in manufacturing. Production in China was significantly reduced in favour of the factories in Göppingen as well as Györ in Hungary. The quality of those products which were made in Asia no longer met the expectations of the Swabians [i.e. Märklin]. Furthermore, the Chinese could not be relied on to deliver goods on time. [Pluta]: "Total sales would have been 5 million [euros] higher if they [i.e. the Chinese] had delivered everything that they had promised to." Pressure was the means that the Chinese eventually understood. Pluta set precise deadlines for delivery and made it clear that he would refuse to accept those goods for which they were not met. [Pluta]: "You won't believe how hard they tried to deliver [on time]." In addition, there was another problem that a lot of companies that have goods manufactured in China face: every year, salaries rise by up to 20% over there, but nevertheless, production cannot always be guaranteed. What often happens is that after the Chinese New Year [holiday], only half of the workers return to their factories, and the subsequent search for new employees is difficult. During the insolvency, 120 out of 610 staff members were dismissed [at Märklin's factory] in Göppingen. In Györ, most staff members who lost their jobs were seasonal workers; nowadays, Märklin employs 700 workers there.

So the factory in Göppingen must have been quite busy during the Pluta years. Between 2010 and 2012, Märklin TV often showed us goods being produced in Göppingen, and those were not just the pilot series, but also final assembly. Now, Märklin TV doesn't show us much about production in Göppingen, except for metal parts. The factory in Györ was extended in 2011 as well as in 2014, so I suppose that assembly takes place there for most products. On the other hand, some newly-designed models are produced in China now, so there seems to have been a shift in the company's strategy recently. Mr Pluta thought that China had been a mistake.

To get back to the free space at the factory in Göppingen, I would guess that they need less room for assembly there now, but according to what this article says and what we have been shown on Märklin TV, more locomotives used to be assembled in Göppingen during the Pluta years. It's a well-known fact that Mr Pluta tried to cut costs; if he had had enough space inside the factory building in 2010 or 2011, he would have moved the museum there to get rid of the other building. He fired Mr Gaugele, so it's clear that he tried to save money in that department. The new owners often talk about metal parts being produced in Göppingen (for those items which are made in Europe) and about assembly in Hungary, but they they hardly ever mention assembly in Göppingen.

For me personally, all the staff members in Göppingen who designed, produced and assembled goods in the past embodied the Märklin company. That's all changed now, old Märklin is gone for good and new Märklin is a different company.

Regards,
Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
Online H0  
#63 Posted : 07 March 2015 09:22:28(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,251
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
Mr Pluta tried to cut costs; if he had had enough space inside the factory building in 2010 or 2011, he would have moved the museum there to get rid of the other building.
In 2006 the museum moved from the headquarters to its current location. There is a post on Stummi's Forum from 2006 that says back then they had plans to move the museum back to headquarters two or three years later.
While this idea may be new for Herr F. Sieber, it's not entirely new.

It takes time and money to prepare rooms in the headquarters for the museum. That will save money in the long run, but not at short terms. Not illogical that Herr Pluta left the museum in the rented place where it still is if other areas allowed higher and/or immediate savings.
We don't know how much rent they pay for the museum and can only speculate how much money they would save.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Mark_1602  
#64 Posted : 07 March 2015 10:13:10(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

We don't know how much rent they pay for the museum and can only speculate how much money they would save.


That's right, we can only speculate about the museum, but the evidence I have quoted suggests that Märklin probably assembled more locomotives in Göppingen during the insolvency years than they do now, and that was the point I was trying to make. On the other hand, the production of die-cast metal parts in Göppingen has increased in the last few years because part of the production has been brought back to Europe, and Mr Sieber has specifically pointed that out in interviews.

I suppose that some locomotives are still assembled in Göppingen, but Märklin TV should show that, as they did between 2010 and 2012. My impression is that Göppingen specialises in design, die-casting and the production of pilot series because that's what's mentioned in interviews and on Märklin TV now.

Best regards,
Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#65 Posted : 07 March 2015 14:01:56(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post


So some of the 120 staff members who were sacked during the insolvency must have been unproductive. Another quote from the same article actually suggests that output in Göppingen actually increased during the Pluta years:



There is nothing like the threat of losing ones job to concentrate the mind on the work at hand ... Blink BigGrin

Offline PhillipL  
#66 Posted : 07 March 2015 14:18:45(UTC)
PhillipL

United States   
Joined: 24/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 123
Unfortunately, today's business model seems to be make it the cheapest way with quality falling by the side. This is not just in the model train industry but nearly every industry, even customer service representatives are now off shore. As far as downsizing goes, I experienced it personally and the reductions were made in the following manner, first the employees not up to the task, then the workers who just did what they had to do, and finally they fired the most expensive (most experienced) workers. The remaining workers were pressured to do two or three times the normal amount of work and were rewarded with unpaid mandatory overtime. China is currently the cheapest place for manufacturing, once another cheaper location is identified, the jobs will be moved there. It is sad that businesses only look for short term profits these days and don't realize that there loyal customer base will disappear in the process. I guess the "investors" will just move on to another company once they finish squeezing out the last drop of profit from their current company.
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Offline Mark_1602  
#67 Posted : 07 March 2015 15:51:20(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Hi Phillip,

Unfortunately that's the way things often work, though I think that Märklin has been lucky to find some serious investors who are unlikely to leave soon. They've simply invested too much money into the whole venture, so they can't give up, and they can't make a fast buck with Märklin either. Cool Mr Pluta had to make some painful cuts because the company was losing 1.7 million euros every month when he took over. Obviously Märklin is no longer the company that it used to be, but it has survived a disastrous decade.

I have one new Nohab that's probably made in China, but I must say that it's very good. Actually, it reminds me of the traditional Märklin models, all metal and user-friendly. It's the type of locomotive that Helmut Kilian, the chief designer at the Märklin company from the early 1960s to the 1980s, would have built if he'd had today's technology.

Best regards,
Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
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Online H0  
#68 Posted : 07 March 2015 18:07:31(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,251
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
They've simply invested too much money into the whole venture, so they can't give up, and they can't make a fast buck with Märklin either.
Little do we know for sure.
Shortly after insolvency began, Herr Pluta was looking for an investor with €100m.
Months later he was looking for an investor with at least €60m.
The Siebers bought years later when Herr Pluta had already reduced Märklin's debts a good deal.
So how much did the Siebers pay for Märklin?

Since they bought Märklin made about €10m profit each year. Sounds like a quick return of investment, assuming they paid much less than €60m for the company.
Time will tell. Job guarantee for Göppingen ends 2019.

I estimate they will need hundreds of additional European workers to end production in China completely.
They never committed themselves to end production in China. They just make a big fuss about every product line they transfer from China to Hungary - enough fuss to make some people believe they gave up production in China long ago and for good.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Mark_1602  
#69 Posted : 07 March 2015 21:07:50(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
They've simply invested too much money into the whole venture, so they can't give up, and they can't make a fast buck with Märklin either.
Little do we know for sure.
Shortly after insolvency began, Herr Pluta was looking for an investor with €100m.
Months later he was looking for an investor with at least €60m.
The Siebers bought years later when Herr Pluta had already reduced Märklin's debts a good deal.
So how much did the Siebers pay for Märklin?

Since they bought Märklin made about €10m profit each year. Sounds like a quick return of investment, assuming they paid much less than €60m for the company.
Time will tell. Job guarantee for Göppingen ends 2019.

I estimate they will need hundreds of additional European workers to end production in China completely.
They never committed themselves to end production in China. They just make a big fuss about every product line they transfer from China to Hungary - enough fuss to make some people believe they gave up production in China long ago and for good.


Hi Tom,

Since they bought Märklin, the profit they make has remained a company secret, so you can't know how much money they made. Märklin is losing customers, and don't forget the large amount of unsold locomotives from the last two years (because discount sales of unpopular models have been ended). Mr Sieber has said that earnings are stable, but no figures have been provided. Are they still as profitable as before 2013? We don't know.

Let's suppose they paid 60 million or a little less. Sales are falling, and many customers are unhappy about one thing or another. It won't be so easy for them, especially 5 or 10 years from now ...

This afternoon I had another look at all the Märklin TV episodes that have been published since autumn 2013, and here's what those videos show about the production:
Dm3 + E 93 (die-cast bodies/pilot series/Göppingen), Lint 37738 (painting/Györ), G 5/5 (assembly/Györ), gauges Z, N, G (production/Györ/new building), Eurofima coaches (design/Györ). No mention of assembly at Göppingen at all. That's the opposite of what Märklin TV filmed in 2011, when they proudly announced that the 50.4 was made in Göppingen.

I believe that there has been a shift in the company's strategy. That's only my guess, but the new owners have excellent connections in China and make most of their toys there. Is it likely that they will give up their business model that has worked for all of their toy companies? China is probably part of their strategy for Märklin. In 2011 Löbich announced on Märklin TV that they had pulled out their tooling, but now they're going back in. I can buy models made in China as long as they're good, such as the Nohab or the S 2/6.

Regards,
Mark

Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
Offline shannon  
#70 Posted : 08 March 2015 06:03:12(UTC)
shannon


Joined: 27/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 337
Location: Taipei,
Thanks for the information. I have never heard BR50.40 was made in Germany, but " Germany made " cannot delight me at all as this locomotive had the seriously assembled fault that i have ever bought.

https://www.marklin-user...s&t=22038#post330003

I agree wth you i just concern how the quality is not where the country made.

Except for Mercedes Benz, BMW, Audi, porsche or Siemens trainsets, I almost cannot buy any german branded products made in Germany in my country if i care about whether the products come from Germany or not.
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Online H0  
#71 Posted : 08 March 2015 09:27:48(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,251
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
Let's suppose they paid 60 million or a little less. Sales are falling, and many customers are unhappy about one thing or another. It won't be so easy for them, especially 5 or 10 years from now ...
They stopped "emergency sales" (dumping unsold sets onto the market at drastically reduced prices) to prevent the brand from damage.
IMHO they continue to damage the brand in other ways. We will see where it will lead them.


Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
I believe that there has been a shift in the company's strategy.
There surely was a shift in their Märklin TV strategy: frequency of episodes was drastically reduced and they show much fewer pictures of items that are being produced.
Märklin TV is advertising, Märklin Museum is advertising. They save money.

Yes, there may have been a shift in strategy. More co-operation between Göppingen and Győr maybe, with more manual work done in Győr now.
Many older episodes show a lady with the name Esperanza assembling steam locos in Göppingen. Haven't seen her on Märklin TV for ages now.
Just speculation, no facts I am aware of.

It doesn't matter where it is made, as long as it is good quality.
Four items from the last 8 MäTrix items I bought had problems. Fixed one myself, sent three to Göppingen. Two had to go to repair service twice.
Ratio was not always that bad.
Too often I have to take MäTrix items apart to remove grates that should have been removed at the factory. Cursing
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Mark_1602  
#72 Posted : 08 March 2015 11:24:03(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Hi Tom,

Finally we agree on a few things.

I've had to send back five locomotives in the last three years, one of them twice:
37012 (scratches/replaced by dealer), 36339 (handrail insufficiently painted/not assembled correctly), 2x 37679 (Strukton Nohab/both had scratched handrails), and now 37942 (broken decoder).
One of the Strukton Nohabs was sent to Göppingen twice, and I'm still waiting for my 37942 to be repaired.

I haven't bought that many locomotives in the last two years, so in my case the rate of returns is much higher than Märklin's official average of 2%.
Between 1990 and 2011, I only had about three new locomotives with defects: 37412 (slight problem with a mirror), 37033 (paint defect/noticed in the shop and got another one), and 37623 (visible scratch on the roof). For two of those, I only noticed the problem years later, so I couldn't send them back.

Ironically, the new Nohab that's supposedly made in China (39671) is one of the best Märklin locomotives I've had in years. It's only my guess, but I think that Märklin will gradually phase out assembly in Göppingen (except for pilot series of 50 locomotoves each) as it's too expensive. Did you notice the remark that was made about the machines in the new building in Györ on Märklin TV? It was said that some, but not all the machines in the new extension are new. Where could the old machines come from? They only have one other factory, right? (Alternatively, the machines might come from another building in Györ or from another Simba Dickie factory.) Old machines in a brand new extension in Györ, free rooms in Göppingen, no more images of assembly in Göppingen ... all of that looks suspicious to me. I wouldn't care about assembly in Györ if I hadn't had so many returns recently; I know that the stuff I buy would be much more expensive if everything were assembled in Germany. That video is still on the Märklin website:

Györ Extension Märklin TV 67

Best regards,
Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
Offline Modelleisenbahnfan  
#73 Posted : 08 March 2015 12:09:14(UTC)
Modelleisenbahnfan

Germany   
Joined: 06/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 52
Hi Mark,

Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
Ironically, the new Nohab that's supposedly made in China (39671) is one of the best Märklin locomotives I've had in years.

Blink The new Nohab is so good that Wolfrad Bächle had said in the Märklin TV (Spielwarenmesse Nürnberg) that they had to rework ist. The sound is too weak and the issue with the trim line (?) is also in need of improvement.

I have tested the Nohab (39670); the motor respectively the transmission of this one was almost so noisy as the conventional märklin-drive. I don't know if there wasn't enough grease, however...

kind regards

Robert
Märklin, what else?
Offline Alsterstreek  
#74 Posted : 08 March 2015 12:09:22(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,664
Location: Hybrid Home
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
Hi Tom,
Finally we agree on a few things.


Yes, I noted that, too.

;o)

Offline Mark_1602  
#75 Posted : 08 March 2015 14:41:05(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: Modelleisenbahnfan Go to Quoted Post
Hi Mark,

Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
Ironically, the new Nohab that's supposedly made in China (39671) is one of the best Märklin locomotives I've had in years.

Blink The new Nohab is so good that Wolfrad Bächle had said in the Märklin TV (Spielwarenmesse Nürnberg) that they had to rework ist. The sound is too weak and the issue with the trim line (?) is also in need of improvement.

I have tested the Nohab (39670); the motor respectively the transmission of this one was almost so noisy as the conventional märklin-drive. I don't know if there wasn't enough grease, however...

kind regards

Robert


Hi Robert,

The motor of my 39671 is quiet, though the pickup shoe makes a little noise. The sound is loud enough for my taste. I don't believe a word of what Mr B. says and I think that the problem was not the sound, but the white horizontal line that had been badly printed on the 39670. They should have used a silent pickup shoe, but otherwise I have nothing to complain about, and I'm pretty fussy. Maybe there was no grease on the Nohab you tested, or it had a bad motor. Out of a thousand cheap DC motors, there'd probably be a few that don't perform well, and nowadays, the ultimate quality control is the customer who double-checks everything. That's new Märklin ...

Best regards,
Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
Online H0  
#76 Posted : 23 January 2016 22:32:33(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,251
Location: DE-NW
According to the sticker on the box, the S 2/6 was made in China.

It could be that construction and moulds where made in Korea:
http://korea-brass.com/n...ew&page=&seq=104
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Shamu  
#77 Posted : 24 January 2016 12:19:21(UTC)
Shamu

Australia   
Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,068
Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
Yes, Marklin 37015 video at the bottom of the page Cool
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under .
Offline RayF  
#78 Posted : 24 January 2016 12:31:16(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
According to the sticker on the box, the S 2/6 was made in China.

It could be that construction and moulds where made in Korea:
http://korea-brass.com/n...ew&page=&seq=104


Good detective work, Tom.

Based on this news that Korea-Brass actually built the S2/6 37015 for Marklin, I believe that Marklin should sub-contract more of their production to them.

They certainly know how to make a quality model loco! BigGrin

It also shows how misleading the "Country of origin" sticker can be! Korea is not China!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Online H0  
#79 Posted : 24 January 2016 12:52:32(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,251
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
It also shows how misleading the "Country of origin" sticker can be! Korea is not China!
Korean engineering, but most likely mostly made in China.

It's sad you cannot even be sure you get European engineering.
Even sadder if, as you say, the Korean engineering is better than the Märklin average.

A box with the Märklin logo can contain rolling stock from Fleischmann, Tillig, Hobbytrade, Korea Brass, Hornby, most likely also Jouef and others. And not everything is above market average.
The reseller Märklin damages the reputation of the manufacturer Märklin. Too many quality issues - and it does not matter who makes it or where.

Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Good detective work, Tom.
Accidentally found the link on DSO.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline danmarklinman  
#80 Posted : 24 January 2016 13:33:02(UTC)
danmarklinman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 18/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,377
Hi When Marklin was made I Germany, were they any better than were there made now? I don't think so myself. There is a lot more detail and tech in them for a start? They can't possibly make it all in Germany. It's got to be sauced from all over the place? Marklin is no more expensive than Others, to some extent. I by Marklin. Because if you use one brand with its own brand of track it works like a dream:-) and if parts are made on the other side of the World, I really don't care?
As long as I get a some train playing in and it couples together when I want, loads on the MM2 when I want and runs at a realistic speed with some sound and most of all? Runs for ages without stopping and starting(unlike the Brawa loco I bought) ps have you seen the price of Hornby locks these days? They to are expensive? And made I other parts of the World, what does it matter
Marklin and Piko era 4 SNCB , Marklin wagons
Wiking model car Fan
Faller fan including car system
Instagram: marklin1978
Wiking fan
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Offline Mark_1602  
#81 Posted : 24 January 2016 14:01:39(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: danmarklinman Go to Quoted Post
Hi When Marklin was made I Germany, were they any better than were there made now? I don't think so myself. There is a lot more detail and tech in them for a start? They can't possibly make it all in Germany.


Hi,

I collect Nohab/AFB diesel locomotives made by Märklin and own nearly every version that Märklin produced between 1964 and 2013. In the 1960s, quality was top, but in the 1970s, Märklin started cutting corners. The coat of paint was thinner and tends to flake off a few decades later. In the 1980s, the painting department didn't do a great job either: yellow and brown resp. green stripes intermingle a bit on the 3133 or 3134, and there were occasionally misprints like the 3066.3. In the 1990s, Märklin made a yelllow Danish My as part of a train set (28461); in nearly all of those locomotives, the black paint shines through the yellow one underneath the lamps. Back then, Märklin still had extra workers who were responsible for quality control, but there were some errors.

On average, though, quality was definitely better back then, but who would pay the price of 'Made in Germany' now? I've had about 10 warranty cases since 2012, but Märklin has kindly replaced all of those items. That's all right for me, though it cost them a lot of money. I hope they'll improve quality control and produce everything in Europe, but I know that won't happen in the near future. It's only my wish ...

Best regards,
Mark

Edited by user 24 January 2016 22:00:47(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
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Offline Gusaya45  
#82 Posted : 25 January 2016 14:03:24(UTC)
Gusaya45

Canada   
Joined: 14/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 34
Location: Ontario, Toronto
HI ,
to me i feel that ( i am from Argentina an i live in Canada so no racist but):
Marklin train made in china with very good quality doesn't matter.
Marklin to me is about the tradition of GERMAN TRAIN made in german.
marklin is the is or was the R Royce on train ,because quality and again TRADITION and prices.

Now to MY POINT OF VIEW i dont going to buy a R Royce made in china (sorry).
i don't like to pay the premium price for toy made in china sorry but to me is so sad.
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Offline RayF  
#83 Posted : 25 January 2016 15:35:08(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
The world is a very different place today to what it was like 50 years ago. We need to stop living in the past and embrace the changes there have been to manufacturing since then.

It is no longer financially viable to have toys hand made by workers who have spent the last 30 years doing that job. Manufacturing is now a global phenomenon, and we can't expect everything to be built in a country where wages are expensive and rents even more so and still retain prices which are affordable by all.

I think Marklin today are doing at least as good a job as other Model train makers, and we need to accept that they are trying to do the best they can while still staying solvent.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline river6109  
#84 Posted : 25 January 2016 16:04:19(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,614
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
it will go on for many years to come and there is nothing we can do about it, here in Australia, manufacturing doesn't exist anymore and everything you buy these days is made in China. it isn't about China but the products they are asked to produce and this comes from the buyer and not the people in China.
I can buy connectors for 10 for 1 A$ and free delivery, if I buy them here this will cost me 1 Australian dollar for 1 and the list goes on and on, companies ripping us off left right and centre and the internet will kill a lot of businesses because of the internet.

Germany today would like to produce everything homegrown and buying products from overseas is not in their interest.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline witzlerh  
#85 Posted : 25 January 2016 17:09:58(UTC)
witzlerh

Canada   
Joined: 25/09/2010(UTC)
Posts: 417
Location: Sherwood Park, AB, Canada
I was a machine builder and also dabbled in plastic molds to make plastic parts not that different from the parts you see in the rolling stock from Marklin.
In Canada, I would buy a German made punch press, replace the damaged analogue controls and put in digital controls. As this changed the value of the machine more than 40%, it was made in Canada....

I recently watched Back to the Future 2 and there was a scene where the 50's Doc was making fun of the 80's parts made in Japan. It was a reminder that people in the 50's made fun of Japanese quality....only to have them rule manufacturing and quality in the 80's but then they tank in 2000's due to the resultant high cost of living.

I see that the Chinese and other Asian countries are going through the same cycle. A lot of the quality I have seen coming out of China has gotten a lot better. I also know that good quality came with more than usual oversight.

India will probably be the next manufacturing powerhouse but already in my company, due to the size of the parts and the lower amount of orders, manufacturing is getting more localized as costs are getting more even around the world..

Just this last quarter, we are seeing a downturn in the Chinese market. I think that the rising costs are starting to hit them.

So I do not care so much now where it is made, just that it is well designed and made.

Remember the bad plastic C-track made before 2000 or so. It was due to a poor choice of plastic and hence an engineering error and nothing to do with manufacturing quality, regardless where it was made!

We all know that Marklin has been doing a very good job with design and quality, especially considering that they went through restructuring.

We hope that they continue to do the best job of getting us quality product that run well, on time, and at a low cost...sometimes they will miss the target but I rather wait for good product at low cost though....
Harald
CS2 DB & Canadian Era 3-6
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Offline mbarreto  
#86 Posted : 25 January 2016 19:38:22(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,251

I was told by one dealer that M is not going to produce more in China...
Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


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Online H0  
#87 Posted : 25 January 2016 20:24:07(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,251
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: mbarreto Go to Quoted Post
I was told by one dealer that M is not going to produce more in China...
No matter what that dealer says: I am sure Märklin will continue selling items made in China for years to come.
Publicly we have the Märklin CEOs with their perpetual China bashing, but behind the scenes they buy items from China and sell them in Märklin boxes that only show "Märklin, Göppingen, Germany" without any imprinted "Made in ...".

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Minok  
#88 Posted : 09 February 2016 07:11:14(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
My loco I just purchased, 37577, had similar sticker saying "Made in Hungary".
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#89 Posted : 09 February 2016 11:02:17(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,659
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Shamu Go to Quoted Post
Just wondering if there is a "free trade agreement" between the US and China.........


I'm fairly certain there is no FTA between the US and China. China was excluded from the recently signed TPPA.

New Zealand was the first country worldwide to secure a FTA with China, this happened in 2008.
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Offline Harryv40  
#90 Posted : 09 February 2016 23:29:52(UTC)
Harryv40

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 241
Location: Wilshire
Hi Guys
Just to add my five beans, I have just purchased a Marklin 36243, from Amazon.de and the box had made in China printed on it.
I did see this discussion was going off toward fair trade agreements but........

Anyway more importantly Westham have just scored in the last minute of extra time to beat Liverpool in the FA Cup!!
For our American members that's with a round ball! But we cannot afford to have Beyoncé at half time singing!

Harry
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Offline Armando  
#91 Posted : 10 February 2016 05:23:59(UTC)
Armando

United States   
Joined: 21/07/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,350
Location: Houston, Texas
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Do American forum members sometimes see "Made in Germany" stickers on their locos?


Yes, indeed! My new 37117, the BR 18.1 that goes with the blue Orient Express set, bears the "Made in Germany" sticker. And, actually, I quite like that BigGrin

As a child, I used to remember the "Made in Western Germany" signs on every Märklin item.

I cannot bring myself to liking the idea of "Made in China" Märklin. Sorry, but I can't. Especially, when they are still asking the big bucks for those items manufactured in China. My most recent example is the 36332 SBB switcher double set made in China, but sold at an stratospheric USD 450.
Best regards,
Armando García

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Offline Minok  
#92 Posted : 10 February 2016 06:15:06(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Keep in mine the iPhone is made in China and it sells for an outrageous price.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Online H0  
#93 Posted : 10 February 2016 07:56:48(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,251
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
My loco I just purchased, 37577, had similar sticker saying "Made in Hungary".
There is no doubt that Märklin make locos in Göppingen. And they also make locos in Hungary.
For me there is no doubt they still buy and resell locos made in Far East.

Piko, Brawa, Liliput also sell locos made in China. It's no secret where they are made.
iPhones are made in China - and that's no secret either.

For European customers it is nearly impossible to find out where Märklin items are made. Many customers believe "Made in China" is all over for Märklin and some dealers increase the confusion.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline RayF  
#94 Posted : 10 February 2016 08:27:46(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
For my part I'm glad that they have done away with the old fashioned concept that manufacturing can only be good in one particular country. This only leads to expectations of quality that have no basis in reality.

The important thing in today's manufacturing world is to have a good system of quality control to minimise the number of returns due to defects. If Marklin (and virtually every other brand) finds that they can achieve good quality and at the same time lower the price for the consumer it is only right that they pursue such options.

China has achieved a huge mass of experience in manufacturing hi-technology items over the last 20 or so years, and there is no doubting the quality of, for example, Brawa locos, so why should Marklin stick to an outdated image of "Made in Germany" when they can achieve better results by going to the specialists.

So far I have had no problems with any of my recent Marklin locos, except for a motor that failed in my Kof III and was duly replaced at a modest cost. I think many, when they open a box that says "Made in China", automatically become super-critical, and pre-disposed to find errors and defects. I have no such prejudice.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline river6109  
#95 Posted : 10 February 2016 09:06:59(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,614
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
the main problem I can see, China produces products for almost nothing but firms who use Chinese manufacturers reaping in the profits, with other words firms want to get the best quality for more or less nothing.

I have products coming from China or Hong Kong and the cost is so minimal + free delivery the same item would cost me 10 times more if purchased in Australia.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Carim  
#96 Posted : 10 February 2016 10:21:59(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 648
Location: London
Soon the location of production is going to become irrelevant - I note that Humbrol (Hornby) intends to release a 3D printer in late 2016. So could model railway companies just become owners of intellectual property, sending out designs over the internet and then the customer prints out his new model in the comfort of his own home?

Carim
Offline RayF  
#97 Posted : 10 February 2016 11:02:29(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Carim Go to Quoted Post
Soon the location of production is going to become irrelevant - I note that Humbrol (Hornby) intends to release a 3D printer in late 2016. So could model railway companies just become owners of intellectual property, sending out designs over the internet and then the customer prints out his new model in the comfort of his own home?

Carim


BigGrin Now that would be progress!

However, I don't see Humbrol's 3d printer producing a complete HO locomotive with working decoder, motor, lights, and sound effects!

I can see that one could print out optional body parts and details. Maybe also complete plastic bodies for diesels and electrics, to be fitted with glazing, pantographs, etc.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline xxup  
#98 Posted : 10 February 2016 13:27:39(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,453
Location: Australia
I am remembering the poor state of the plastic triang parts after 40 years - I can't see the type of plastic used in contemporary 3D printers having the right chemistry to ensure a durable and UV-resistant product.
Adrian
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Offline RayF  
#99 Posted : 10 February 2016 13:57:05(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I inherited a few banana shaped Triang coaches from a cousin in the early seventies. I cannibalized them for their bogies and couplings which I used in some scratchbuilt wagons.

I can testify to what poor quality plastic can do!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline biedmatt  
#100 Posted : 10 February 2016 14:18:30(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Keep in mine the iPhone is made in China and it sells for an outrageous price.


Smart business practice. If a company is to survive, they must sell their products for what we are willing to pay, not just some simple percentage above manufacturing cost. Some products are more profitable than others simply because we are willing to pay more for it.

Is the iPhone X times better than the other smart phones? Probably not, but Apple has marketed themselves well and we will pay more for their phone.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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