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Offline SAK  
#1 Posted : 19 February 2015 08:07:17(UTC)
SAK

United States   
Joined: 19/02/2015(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: Texas, Southlake
Being new to using Marklin Digital, I am wondering if there is any reason why I should, or shouldn't use a 66185 power supply (spec 20.8 Vdc 18VA - 110vac input) with the Mobile Station 2?

I would only need this to run, at most, 3 or 4 small 4 wheel locos with lights, possibly Telex couplers, and sound, should it be available. This would be on a small layout, no more than 30 feet of K track. I believe the 66185 was supplied in US market starter sets for use with the MS 1. I keep having Marklin dealers tell me I need at least 30-40 VA. Yet I have read some comments from users indicating the 66185 worked fine for smaller layouts with 3-4 locos using the MS 2.

What I don't understand by the recommendations of a power supply of at least the size (36VA) that is supplied in the current starter sets using the MS 2 is:
1) Why so much more power? Is this Marklin system so inefficient that it really needs twice the current capability of the earlier MS 1? Or DCC?

2) I am running 4-6 locos (most 0-4-0 Porters) with sound and lights, plus lighted cars on a DCC On30 layout of similar size using an 18VA MRC Tech II Railpower 1400 power pack with no problems. While I was surprised when I could easily run more equipment than I could keep up with as a sole operator, I'm having a hard time imaging why Marklin dealers are telling me that 18VA is not enough. Well, unless of course the real reason is to try to sell me another $70 - 120 transformer that I probably don't need, or could make for less than $20.00.

I already have a 66185 that I have been using with a simple 67025 Delta controller to test locos I previously bought only for display. So has anyone used this transformer with the MS 2?

Of course I also wonder why one couldn't use some other DC power supply of 18-22 v, such as a conventional, "clean" DC power pack that doesn't have pulse.

My only realistic alternative if I must have at least 30 VA seems to be buying a 29478 starter set for the Mobile Station 2, connector and power supply (230 v), and sell the train and track. Buying the 60653 and 60113 from most sources.
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 19 February 2015 08:25:52(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi,
Welcome to the forum.

The MS2 (well, the trackbox actually) can handle an output current of 1.9 A. That's the point when the overload protection of the MS2 goes on stop.

With a power supply for 1 A only, it could be that the power supply switches off if you run too many trains before the MS2 goes on stop.

And 3 or 4 trains may, depending on the locos/trains used, require more power than the 1 A coming from your transformer.

It's easy to find a universal DC power supply with a plug that fits into the MS2 trackbox (polarity does not matter, the MS2 also works with AC (do not exceed 16 V AC). Usually these power supplies do not have the toy sign and I wouldn't give them to children to play with them.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline SAK  
#3 Posted : 19 February 2015 19:26:23(UTC)
SAK

United States   
Joined: 19/02/2015(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: Texas, Southlake
Hi Tom,

Thanks for the quick and detailed response.

If I fully understand the explanation, this leaves open several options:

1) the only reason I couldn't use a 66185 18VA power supply is if it simply didn't have the capacity to operate the motors, something I think is unlikely to be an issue, given my prior experience with DC/DCC, and testing locos using the Delta controller with the 66185.

2) Any Marklin AC power supply or transformer sounds like it would work, provided the AC voltage is <16 Vac, one doesn't ever trigger the reverse and send a spike through the system, and has the proper plug.

3) A Lionel AC power supply sounds like it would work with the correct plug if set to below 16 Vac.

4) Any simple DC power pack made for HO or G that does not have pulse or momentum electronics of less than 36-40 VA sound like they would also work. (The G power packs I have have max outputs of 17 to 21 Vdc and as little as 12 VA to 30VA. My largest HO pack puts out 13VA and 14Vdc. Note that I made a typo earlier. The DCC system running up to 6 locos with sound and lights is working well with only 13VA, not 18VA. Given your information, I'm having a still harder time thinking I would need more than the 66185 18VA to run 3-4 small locos with Marklin proprietary DCC Mobile Station 2.)

5) A power transformer, preferably with a bridge rectifier and the proper plug in a safe enclosure.
It sounds like even a Powerstat or a regulated DC power supply would work, except for the fact that my Powerstat can put out over 7 Amps and would be way too easy to accidentally to turn the voltage up. I also have a regulated DC power supply, variable 6-15 v, but it is for much higher current, 35 Amps. I've even testes the motor from a trolling motor with it. The Powerstat and the large regulated power supply are probably, at best, risky, and at worst, would possibly fry something before the protection circuits could work.

With the overload set at 1.9 amps, it sounds like there would be no point in having a power supply capable of over the one supplied in the starter kit of 36 VA.

If I missed something here, please tell me.

Since I already have the proper plugs, several power transformers, though most are 12v, bridge rectifiers, several Lionel, HO and G (many for Z, all to weak for this) power packs, and certainly all the hardware and cases, should I bother building one, I just have to ask,

what are the safe voltage ranges that the Mobile Station 2 will function on? If I had to, I would rather assemble one than use the 230V and my step down transformer and commonly available power transformers have secondaries of 12 or 24 v. I don't remember seeing them in 18v.
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 19 February 2015 20:11:25(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
When using a Märklin transformer, connect the MS2 to yellow and brown for constant 16 V AC.

Right, no point getting more than 2 A (e.g. 36 VA at 18 V) for the MS2. I wouldn't go above 22 V DC or below 18 V DC.

When you use the 66185 then IMHO the only thing at risk will be the 66185 - and most likely nothing will get damaged.
I didn't find the 66185 in the product database. I presume it's a simple power supply like the 66181 from European starter sets, not a switching mode power supply. When on overload, the track voltage will drop considerably and trains may behave funny (trains slowing down, sound malfunctions).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline SAK  
#5 Posted : 19 February 2015 23:05:27(UTC)
SAK

United States   
Joined: 19/02/2015(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: Texas, Southlake
Hi Tom,

The best information I found on the 66185 is that it was placed in US starter sets that had the 1st gen Mobile Station, so I would think it would have the same output.

It sounds like it should be fine for running the 2 - 4 small locos I anticipate running at any one time on this display.

Thanks for clearing this up.
Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 20 February 2015 08:03:45(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: SAK Go to Quoted Post
It sounds like it should be fine for running the 2 - 4 small locos I anticipate running at any one time on this display.
Locos typically draw 0.2 A through 0.6 A. Four small locos in the 0.2 A range should work (theoretically).
0.6 A was found with a steam loco with light bulbs, sound, smoke generator on. 0.2 A was a loco without sound, without smoke generator and with LEDs on.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline trainbuff  
#7 Posted : 28 February 2015 21:22:50(UTC)
trainbuff


Joined: 26/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 507
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Originally Posted by: SAK Go to Quoted Post
Hi Tom,

The best information I found on the 66185 is that it was placed in US starter sets that had the 1st gen Mobile Station, so I would think it would have the same output.

It sounds like it should be fine for running the 2 - 4 small locos I anticipate running at any one time on this display.

Thanks for clearing this up.


FYI - I use the 66185 with an MS2 and it works fine (it came with a starter set and a now retired MS1). I run no more than two or three trains at a time with sound and a couple of lighted carriages and the MS2 only draws around 0.5A. I also have a 66361 and have used it with a wall adapter plug and the 120V we have here in US. But I went back to using the 66185 because I needed the adapter plug for other accessories. I didn't notice any difference between the two power supplies and the MS2. Accessories, such as switch motors, are on their own power supply. Good Luck with yours.
Offline akerstdi  
#8 Posted : 01 March 2015 01:43:44(UTC)
akerstdi

United States   
Joined: 29/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 82
Evening everyone,
I was wondering, would the 60055 supply the MS2 with the power to be able to run 3-4 loks at a time with sound and lights? Has anyone used one of these before?
Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 01 March 2015 08:24:48(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: akerstdi Go to Quoted Post
I was wondering, would the 60055 supply the MS2 with the power to be able to run 3-4 loks at a time with sound and lights?
The answer is "definitely maybe".
We don't know which locos you will be using and how fast you will run them, but three sound locos at medium speed should work.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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