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Offline Ken Mitchell  
#1 Posted : 12 January 2015 22:28:19(UTC)
Ken Mitchell

Australia   
Joined: 06/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 67
Location: Berry, NSW
I have a Br 003-160-9 locomotive that has a habit of tipping on it side in the curves, primarily on m track 5100. It is on my temporary running track. My solution presently is to incline the curves inward using a 3 mm spacer. This is my N scale background coming out.

Anyway, general question is what the thoughts with inclined curves when using marklin set track layouts?

Regards

Ken
Offline kimballthurlow  
#2 Posted : 13 January 2015 09:00:35(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,639
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi Ken,

Do you use a 3mm packing under the outer edge of the curve?

Model trains (just like the real ones) benefit from elevation of the outer rail in a curve, to compensate for centrifugal force.
Model trains look better for it.

It is called super-elevation, and if you work in a range of 6-9 inches (150mm - 225mm) elevation of the outer rail, you will have it right.
That is 1.75mm to 2.55mm in HO scale. 3mm is OK.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline RayF  
#3 Posted : 13 January 2015 10:50:20(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Superelevation is common practice on high speed main lines, but maybe not so common on a branch line winding it's way through the countryside.

Ken, what speeds are you running your Br003? It could be that you need to slow the train somewhat, as well as introducing superelevation.

In my opinion running a model train at about half speed looks "about right", whereas running it at full speed looks rather frantic!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by RayF
Offline kiwiAlan  
#4 Posted : 13 January 2015 10:56:24(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Ken Mitchell Go to Quoted Post
I have a Br 003-160-9 locomotive that has a habit of tipping on it side in the curves, primarily on m track 5100. It is on my temporary running track. My solution presently is to incline the curves inward using a 3 mm spacer. This is my N scale background coming out.

Anyway, general question is what the thoughts with inclined curves when using marklin set track layouts?

Regards

Ken


I suspect the one or both bogies are jamming when attempting to turn in the chassis. It definitely shouldn't be doing this.

It needs to be something REAL heavy like a DA800 or one of the others in that series to tip off a 5100 curve at high speed.

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline Ken Mitchell  
#5 Posted : 13 January 2015 12:10:28(UTC)
Ken Mitchell

Australia   
Joined: 06/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 67
Location: Berry, NSW
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Hi Ken,

Do you use a 3mm packing under the outer edge of the curve?

Model trains (just like the real ones) benefit from elevation of the outer rail in a curve, to compensate for centrifugal force.
Model trains look better for it.

It is called super-elevation, and if you work in a range of 6-9 inches (150mm - 225mm) elevation of the outer rail, you will have it right.
That is 1.75mm to 2.55mm in HO scale. 3mm is OK.

regards
Kimball


Hello Kimball,

Yes, the packing is on the outer edge of the curve. I use the same arrangement on my n scale layout. You are right the HO size trains look particularly good on the inclined curves.

Regards

Ken
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Ken Mitchell
Offline Ken Mitchell  
#6 Posted : 13 January 2015 20:02:13(UTC)
Ken Mitchell

Australia   
Joined: 06/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 67
Location: Berry, NSW
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Superelevation is common practice on high speed main lines, but maybe not so common on a branch line winding it's way through the countryside.

Ken, what speeds are you running your Br003? It could be that you need to slow the train somewhat, as well as introducing superelevation.

In my opinion running a model train at about half speed looks "about right", whereas running it at full speed looks rather frantic!


Hello Ray, i am running the Br003 at around 1/3 tranformer dial setting. The locomotive is very free running and appears to increase its speed over time which is probably why it derails after a time of running. My other engines, DA800, Br01 , 3000 all need about 1/2 transformer dial setting to obtain the same speed. Presently cannot run the Br003 with the other engines on the same controller. Regards Ken
Offline Ken Mitchell  
#7 Posted : 13 January 2015 20:06:57(UTC)
Ken Mitchell

Australia   
Joined: 06/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 67
Location: Berry, NSW
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Ken Mitchell Go to Quoted Post
I have a Br 003-160-9 locomotive that has a habit of tipping on it side in the curves, primarily on m track 5100. It is on my temporary running track. My solution presently is to incline the curves inward using a 3 mm spacer. This is my N scale background coming out.

Anyway, general question is what the thoughts with inclined curves when using marklin set track layouts?

Regards

Ken


I suspect the one or both bogies are jamming when attempting to turn in the chassis. It definitely shouldn't be doing this.

It needs to be something REAL heavy like a DA800 or one of the others in that series to tip off a 5100 curve at high speed.



Thankyou for the suggestion, will have a look. This Br003 has a very free running gear, compared to all other marklin locomotives, such as a DA800, Br23, Br01.
Offline RayF  
#8 Posted : 14 January 2015 11:41:21(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Ken Mitchell Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Superelevation is common practice on high speed main lines, but maybe not so common on a branch line winding it's way through the countryside.

Ken, what speeds are you running your Br003? It could be that you need to slow the train somewhat, as well as introducing superelevation.

In my opinion running a model train at about half speed looks "about right", whereas running it at full speed looks rather frantic!


Hello Ray, i am running the Br003 at around 1/3 tranformer dial setting. The locomotive is very free running and appears to increase its speed over time which is probably why it derails after a time of running. My other engines, DA800, Br01 , 3000 all need about 1/2 transformer dial setting to obtain the same speed. Presently cannot run the Br003 with the other engines on the same controller. Regards Ken


OK, thanks for the extra info.

I gather you are talking about a Marklin 3085 loco? Mine is also quite fast, but not so fast it's uncontrollable. I converted mine to digital some time ago which helps.

I have over a hundred Marklin locos and each one runs at a different speed for a fixed controller setting. Additionally the analogue ones or digital locos without load control all seem to accelerate after running for a few minutes. I see you also experience this.

I guess theres nothing else I can add, except that you'll have to keep a closer eye on that speed dial for this particular loco.

Good luck!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Ken Mitchell  
#9 Posted : 14 January 2015 12:05:42(UTC)
Ken Mitchell

Australia   
Joined: 06/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 67
Location: Berry, NSW
Thankyou gentleman for your thoughts and suggestions. Ken
Offline Ken Mitchell  
#10 Posted : 23 January 2015 06:13:21(UTC)
Ken Mitchell

Australia   
Joined: 06/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 67
Location: Berry, NSW
Originally Posted by: Ken Mitchell Go to Quoted Post
I have a Br 003-160-9 locomotive that has a habit of tipping on it side in the curves, primarily on m track 5100. It is on my temporary running track. My solution presently is to incline the curves inward using a 3 mm spacer. This is my N scale background coming out.

Anyway, general question is what the thoughts with inclined curves when using marklin set track layouts?

Regards

Ken


Hello folks,

Just thought i would follow up with the outcome of mr tipping over Br 003 loco. After further investigation it appears the screw. Holding the front boggie to the body has been working loose and allowed the front of the boggie to disengage from its mounting slot thereby increasing the lateral play, hence sending off the rails at this one set of points on my temporay track. Anyway, it appears to be happily running with re assembly completed and no derailments for the last running session. Still runs extremely quick but constant monitoring is sorting out that issue.

Thankyou fir your assistance, much appreciated.

Regards ken
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Ken Mitchell
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