Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline Goofy  
#1 Posted : 01 January 2015 12:47:22(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Good day!
I have seen Märklin´s new locomotives do have pickup shoe which you just clip on under the frame of the body.
But the problem occurs sometimes with bad contact.
Even ESU do have sometimes problem with that.
So simple question...do you prefer pickup shoe with the wire soldered?
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Purellum  
#2 Posted : 01 January 2015 14:12:40(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

I have seen a member here, who recommends spring clamps for the digital system;
because soldered connections often makes worse contact.

Maybe Märklin has read that recommendation and now follows this advice ???

https://www.marklin-user...l-system.aspx#post431892

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Purellum
Offline Goofy  
#3 Posted : 01 January 2015 18:46:14(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

I have seen a member here, who recommends spring clamps for the digital system;
because soldered connections often makes worse contact.

Maybe Märklin has read that recommendation and now follows this advice ???

https://www.marklin-user...l-system.aspx#post431892

Per.

Cool



It´s difference between pickup shoe and spring clamps.
Pickup shoe do vibration on the track and do have sometimes bad contact on the underframe of the locomotive,while spring clamps is for installation.
Yours attitude is not even good respons from you,as usual.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Purellum  
#4 Posted : 01 January 2015 19:14:35(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Spring clamps is also for installation in places with vibration, we use the a lot in wind turbines.

The pickup shoe is also a spring, so there is no significant difference.

Your attitude is to try to find whatever negative you can about Märklin, now giving the funny result,
that when you recommend to avoid soldering and use spring clamps, you find it good;
but when Märklin does exactly the same, you find it bad.

This is what you wrote about soldering:

Quote:
I did mistake before by soldering the wires, but solder makes sometimes worse contact for the digital system.
Just pure copper connect at once to all.


Flapper

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Purellum
Offline Goofy  
#5 Posted : 01 January 2015 19:41:20(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

Spring clamps is also for installation in places with vibration, we use the a lot in wind turbines.

The pickup shoe is also a spring, so there is no significant difference.

Your attitude is to try to find whatever negative you can about Märklin, now giving the funny result,
that when you recommend to avoid soldering and use spring clamps, you find it good;
but when Märklin does exactly the same, you find it bad.

This is what you wrote about soldering:

Quote:
I did mistake before by soldering the wires, but solder makes sometimes worse contact for the digital system.
Just pure copper connect at once to all.


Flapper

Per.

Cool


Pickup shoe as spring clamp with soldered wire is better than without wire to have safety contact on the stud contact.
Pickup shoes do vibration a lot on Märklins tracks with stud contacts while you drive.
It´s solder that makes lesser contact,while pure copper do better contact for the digital system.
But for the locomotives you don´t have possible in other ways than to solder wires.
You must understand,that small parts like locomotives models do have manefacturing of the preform,so pickup shoe as spring clamp without the wire is not good always since there is sometimes default.
Yes i do find Märklin´s trainmodels is bad to often.
Sometimes i do find derailment with electronic too.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Webmaster  
#6 Posted : 01 January 2015 20:04:41(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
My Württemberg C loks have a spring-clamped pickup slider. They run perfectly in digital...

Not even copper in the clamp that is holding the slider in these models.... I think we are splitting hairs regarding reliability vs easiness of replacement here... Wink

Copper connection blades will oxidize over time if not "scrubbed", so frequent use of locos is recommended.... BigGrin

My older locos have soldered wires to the slider, they work great too - so is this really a problem?
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by Webmaster
Offline Purellum  
#7 Posted : 01 January 2015 20:07:47(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

I'm sorry; but this doesn't make any sense at all:

Quote:
Pickup shoe as spring clamp with soldered wire is better than without wire to have safety contact on the stud contact.
Pickup shoes do vibration a lot on Märklins tracks with stud contacts while you drive.
It´s solder that makes lesser contact,while pure copper do better contact for the digital system.
But for the locomotives you don´t have possible in other ways than to solder wires.
You must understand,that small parts like locomotives models do have manefacturing of the preform,so pickup shoe as spring clamp without the wire is not good always since there is sometimes default.
Yes i do find Märklin´s trainmodels is bad to often.
Sometimes i do find derailment with electronic too.


"Soldered wire is better than without wire" ?? Yes, it's not a wireless system ! LOL

A spring clamp system will work just as well on a miniature locomotive as on a wind turbine.

"pickup shoe as spring clamp without the wire is not good always since there is sometimes default" ???? Spring clamp without wire ??

"Sometimes i do find derailment with electronic too" ??? Even Google translate derails quite often.

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline RayF  
#8 Posted : 01 January 2015 21:12:43(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I'm sorry, I've read this thread three times and I still can't make any sense of it.

Wireless pickups?....

Electronic derailments?....
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 6 users liked this useful post by RayF
Offline Purellum  
#9 Posted : 01 January 2015 21:24:50(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Probably one of these in the digital system again LOL

.



Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Purellum
Offline kiwiAlan  
#10 Posted : 02 January 2015 00:09:40(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I'm sorry, I've read this thread three times and I still can't make any sense of it.

Wireless pickups?....

Electronic derailments?....


Me too - I suspect it is a reliance on Google Translate again ... Confused

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline Goofy  
#11 Posted : 02 January 2015 03:34:06(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Severals of Märklin´s locomotives do have in another way to open the body.
You must remove off pickup shoe with spring clamp first before to open the body,by doing service inside of the locomotive.
This is not good for the contact between pickup shoe and the underframe with contact to the PCB,when you shall open the body often.
That´s way i prefer to have pickup shoe with wire.
Not wireless pickup shoe.
I did created this topic to find and help with customer who do have same problems.
ESU do have same problems with the pickup shoe without wire.
Some customer do or did had problems with the pickup shoe as spring clamp.
I´m very dissapointed to see how an member do start troll fight by jokes.
It don´t helps when somebody don´t respect topic.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Goofy  
#12 Posted : 02 January 2015 04:28:04(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
It is enough with a few tenths of a millimeter,to make it lag between skid and bottom nest.
It´s easy by doing design flaws as results.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Goofy  
#13 Posted : 03 January 2015 10:34:00(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Here is one picture i show up.
When i notice how spring clamp pickup shoe are produced like that,i notice there is two weak points.
The first is the snap mount that device.
The second is copper contact under the pickup shoe due to the underframe.
I believe an wire soldered on the pickup shoe do better work with safety contact to the PCB.

Goofy attached the following image(s):
DSC_0028.JPG
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Goofy
Offline Purellum  
#14 Posted : 03 January 2015 12:52:09(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

In that case you should solder all the plugs you have on your computer, your stereo and in the rest of your house.

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline Goofy  
#15 Posted : 06 January 2015 15:28:49(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

In that case you should solder all the plugs you have on your computer, your stereo and in the rest of your house.

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Per.

Cool


As usual you are dane with sovereignty.
I did wrote an mail to Märklin and they did answered back the next day.
They told and said,it´s unnecessary.
But they didn´t verified if there was problems.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Purellum  
#16 Posted : 06 January 2015 21:20:53(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

In that case you should solder all the plugs you have on your computer, your stereo and in the rest of your house.

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Per.

Cool


As usual you are dane with sovereignty.
I did wrote an mail to Märklin and they did answered back the next day.
They told and said,it´s unnecessary.
But they didn´t verified if there was problems.



Did you really ask Märklin about that? LOL

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline hxmiesa  
#17 Posted : 07 January 2015 12:41:12(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
Just wanted to add, that NOW Google translate "ström spikningar" as "power spike solutions".
No more detonations... :-)
¿An improvement?

Goofy; Please do NOT rely on Google for your translations!

Also, -as a dane- I feel obligated to ask you to refrain from danes-bashing too.
(Or at least; that is what I *think* you were trying to do here;
Quote:
As usual you are dane with sovereignty.
)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline Goofy  
#18 Posted : 10 January 2015 11:34:09(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
I did created an topic and asked nice.
Not to see troll with **** comments!

Angry
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Purellum  
#19 Posted : 10 January 2015 14:49:06(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Quote:
I did created an topic and asked nice.
Not to see troll with **** comments!


And I replied nicely, with a link to your own topic, where you recommend spring clamps instead of soldering.

If you find that to be "**** comments", please remember that you wrote it yourself. LOL

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline SteamNut  
#20 Posted : 11 January 2015 04:33:55(UTC)
SteamNut

United States   
Joined: 11/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 488
I was always satisfied when Marklin used a screw to attach the slider always makes good contact easy to change. Snapping them in seems only to save Marklin the money of a screw and I suspect there will future problems of this method. On the steam loks I am not happy that put the slider on the tender which has caused me problems because the light weight of the tender compared to mounting it on the lok where there greater weight and better contact with the track and less derailments.
Offline Goofy  
#21 Posted : 11 January 2015 11:06:25(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Märklin did not verified if to snap pickup shoe do make default with contact too,due to design flaws.
I know it happens so.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Purellum  
#22 Posted : 11 January 2015 12:16:32(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Quote:
I know it happens so.


Can you tell us how or why you know this?

Given the record of what you previously has presented as "things you know", I would like to hear an argument.

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline RayF  
#23 Posted : 11 January 2015 13:41:11(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
The screw mounted sliders in my locos rely on contact between the lugs on the base of the slider and a brass plate on the bottom of the loco chassis. There is no soldered connection between the two, otherwise it would be difficult to swap sliders easily.

Most of my newer locos have the clip on sliders. I see no difference in performance between the two types.

As to the tender mounted sliders, this has been around since the 1970s, starting, I believe, with the good old 3085 and 3084. I've never had a problem with derailments, except for once when I forgot to put the weights back in after converting my 3085 to digital

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by RayF
Offline tulit  
#24 Posted : 11 January 2015 16:07:31(UTC)
tulit

Canada   
Joined: 20/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 400
Originally Posted by: SteamNut Go to Quoted Post
On the steam loks I am not happy that put the slider on the tender which has caused me problems because the light weight of the tender compared to mounting it on the lok where there greater weight and better contact with the track and less derailments.


I had this problem with one of my 03's. The tender is so light that it would derail when going over turnouts since the pukos are a bit higher and the springiness of the slider was enough to push it off.

It was an easy solve by adding some lead adhesive weights to the inside of the tender.

http://www.greathobbies....ctinfo/?prod_id=GPMQ4485
Offline amartinezv  
#25 Posted : 11 January 2015 19:15:20(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 320
Location: Madrid,
Hello

I had the derailment problem when I changed the electromecanical reverse unit in the 3082 for a 6080 decoder, then the tender derails sometimes over turnouts, add some lead, fix the problem.

This difference in weight between the reverse relais a decoder also give some problems on others loks, but these analog lok weren't designed to work with less weight, and it was easy to add some extra weight.

To add weight to loks and wagons I use two metods, the small leads used to balance tyres in cars and also I use modelling clay (plastelina).

In any case I haven't seen any difference in the behaviour of a loco equipped with slider with clip or screw, there's no difference for me.

I like märklin very much, and I am also I'm pretty critical of some of the brand guidelines, especially during the last years, but I recognize that making trains are the best, and I like.

I do not understand that being in a forum about marklin, someone insist on saying it's bad or defects they have, (there are, no doubt).

Best regards

Edited by user 12 January 2015 05:34:11(UTC)  | Reason: ortographic faults

Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
thanks 5 users liked this useful post by amartinezv
Offline db ice3  
#26 Posted : 02 February 2015 23:09:55(UTC)
db ice3


Joined: 24/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 178
Location: uk
do the sliders wear out and then need replacing?

how long does a slider last approximately?
Offline RayF  
#27 Posted : 03 February 2015 00:19:13(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: db ice3 Go to Quoted Post
do the sliders wear out and then need replacing?

how long does a slider last approximately?


Sliders last a long time in normal use, but sometimes they get mangled or bent from accidents and derailments, and then it's best to replace them.

I've never had one wear out, and I've been running my trains for many years, but I suppose if you run the same train every day for many hours then it could happen.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
Offline db ice3  
#28 Posted : 03 February 2015 00:27:19(UTC)
db ice3


Joined: 24/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 178
Location: uk
thanks RayF for clarifying that for me!

i really didnt know about the sliders / wear etc!
Offline mike c  
#29 Posted : 03 February 2015 05:39:44(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
In all of my collection, there are perhaps 4 Maerklin loks that have sliders with soldered on wire. Most of the locomotives that I have acquired since the 1970s have either screw on or clip-in sliders which make contact with a plate built into or attached to the underside of the bogie. I have not experienced any contact issues as a result of this. A few of the newer models might actually have clip-in sliders with soldered wire. I would have to check to be certain. Most of my Hag and Roco loks have a wire attached to the slider base.

Regards

Mike C
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by mike c
Users browsing this topic
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 1.138 seconds.