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Offline db ice3  
#1 Posted : 24 December 2014 10:03:25(UTC)
db ice3


Joined: 24/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 178
Location: uk
hello everyone

merry christmas eve to you all who celebrate it and hope everyone is having a nice time whatever your all doing.

model trains is my winter nov - feb hobby so im not a regular on these forums, ( just in winter! ) and a lot changes in the other 8 months every year!.

i have been reading a little and i see the odd article about marklin trains with the c sine motor.

can someone explain to me what it is and should they be recommended or avoided?

i only have a simple track at the moment and a central station and 1 train. i hope to expand with more trains soon, but thought id better ask about this motor before buying or avoiding trains with it.

many thanks everyone and thankyou for a great forum.
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Offline biedmatt  
#2 Posted : 24 December 2014 11:54:33(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Perhaps Marklins own description is the best place to start:
http://www.maerklin.de/millennium/teil3_4e.html
For reference, these are typically called "brushless motors".

I go out of my way to acquire lokos with the sinus drive motors. Just last week I bought all three era III versions of the V300 (39301, 39302, 39303). They are the smoothest and best running lokos Marklin has ever produced.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline RayF  
#3 Posted : 24 December 2014 13:04:29(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Merry Christmas to you too, Jay!

There are a couple of versions of the C-sine motor, the original large C-Sine and the compact C-sine. The early versions of the compact motor suffered from some problems with the driver electronics in the decoder occasionally causing jerky running in some conditions. The original large C-sine and the later compact motors marked "SDS" are excellent and you can buy them with confidence.

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#4 Posted : 24 December 2014 15:10:04(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Merry Christmas to you too, Jay!

There are a couple of versions of the C-sine motor, the original large C-Sine and the compact C-sine. The early versions of the compact motor suffered from some problems with the driver electronics in the decoder occasionally causing jerky running in some conditions. The original large C-sine and the later compact motors marked "SDS" are excellent and you can buy them with confidence.



The later compact motors are also known as 'soft-sine' with a sticker on the box. This name seemed to be given to them to get over the distaste many customers had for the original compact c-Sine motors, and to signify that this new motor was a step forward with improvements.
Offline db ice3  
#5 Posted : 25 December 2014 00:51:04(UTC)
db ice3


Joined: 24/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 178
Location: uk
thankyou biedmatt for the very detailed descriptions... that was a very informative read.

tayf - thankyou for the advice - so either be aware of the older large c sine motor or the much later compact c sine motor, but avoid models with the earlier smaller motor? - how do i know which models have the smaller early c sine motors so i can avoid them?

kiwialan - thanks too, is the soft sine signage on all the newer models boxes - or is there another way to know its the newer motor?

i guess before buying the next loco - i could ask on here for the motor advice?

im considering purchasing one of these ... would this have the more desireable motor?

loco im thinking of purchasing
Offline Shamu  
#6 Posted : 25 December 2014 00:56:54(UTC)
Shamu

Australia   
Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,068
Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
Hi Jay and merry Xmas,

You should be quite safe with that particular version, it has the later Soft-Drive-Sine motor.

All the best
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under .
Offline Jay  
#7 Posted : 25 December 2014 01:02:54(UTC)
Jay

South Africa   
Joined: 01/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 303
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Ho Yes ideeeed. Scouting for 1 myself.

Jay
Offline kiwiAlan  
#8 Posted : 25 December 2014 11:00:22(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: db ice3 Go to Quoted Post
thankyou biedmatt for the very detailed descriptions... that was a very informative read.

tayf - thankyou for the advice - so either be aware of the older large c sine motor or the much later compact c sine motor, but avoid models with the earlier smaller motor? - how do i know which models have the smaller early c sine motors so i can avoid them?


From memory the catalog describes them as 'compact c-sine'.

Originally Posted by: db ice3 Go to Quoted Post

kiwialan - thanks too, is the soft sine signage on all the newer models boxes - or is there another way to know its the newer motor?



The 'soft-sine' designation only ran for about a year or maybe two, to differentiate them from the earlier compact c-sine. It doesn't appear to be used anymore.

Originally Posted by: db ice3 Go to Quoted Post

i guess before buying the next loco - i could ask on here for the motor advice?

im considering purchasing one of these ... would this have the more desireable motor?

loco im thinking of purchasing


Go to the Marklin New Items brochures page and download all the brochures. Also at Lokshop New Items downloads page they have the Marklin and Trix ones all available languages for download. Lokshop also used to have a page with previous years NI brochures, but I can't see it now, they may have had to stop archiving the old ones.

Offline ice 1  
#9 Posted : 31 December 2014 16:01:01(UTC)
ice 1


Joined: 30/12/2014(UTC)
Posts: 123
Location: IRELAND
Hi all happy new year
To me the C-sine type motors seem to be Marklins top end motor as all the top end models seem to have them.
They are maintenance free to think they were mainly designed for there steam loco range as they take up less space.
I personally pick the high efficiency motor as i just feel personally are these new C-Sine motors Marklin trying to cut production costs how much are they to replace as i dont see any on any Marklin dealer websites.
Even tough I ran a Marklin Taurus ref 39834 with the compact design C-Sine it looked to me when i removed the loco body like a cheap can motor some said Marklin couldnt use the larger C-Sine motor with the MFX decoders to me it doesnt make sense and after a little bit of a slow start as it was boxed for over 4yrs it flew around my test track the fastest ive seen a loco go.
Im putting in a layout and this is one of the Marklin locos i will use.All the best for 2015
Offline H0  
#10 Posted : 31 December 2014 16:53:57(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: ice 1 Go to Quoted Post
Even tough I ran a Marklin Taurus ref 39834 with the compact design C-Sine it looked to me when i removed the loco body like a cheap can motor
You have to take the motor apart to judge its quality.
The compact C Sine motor has ball-bearings and no brushes (the rotor is the permanent magnet).
Cheap can motors have no ball-bearings. Precision can motors have no ball-bearings either. Differences are with the brush holders and other internal details.

Originally Posted by: ice 1 Go to Quoted Post
some said Marklin couldnt use the larger C-Sine motor with the MFX decoders
Märklin used the large C Sine motor in three mfx models. Probably the motors were too expensive, but they can be (and have been) used with mfx decoders.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline RayF  
#11 Posted : 31 December 2014 17:46:55(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Apart from its cost I believe that Marklin replaced the large C-Sine because of it's large size. It would not fit in the boiler of any of the steam locos and had to fill the cab in the same way as the old DCM motors did.

Lately Marklin had been trying to keep the cab clear and were using small can motors, Maxon, Faulhaber or similar for their high end steamers. The evolution of the compact C-sine allowed them to use C-sine in these steamers without compromising the look of the loco.

Because of the technology involved I have no doubt these small C-sine motors became too expensive for Marklin to continue to use without hiking the price up considerably. Shame though, as they were probably the best motors they've made. Maybe they will reconsider and bring them back if the finances improve later.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Hackcell  
#12 Posted : 01 January 2015 18:46:30(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
Happy new year everybody!

Now a quick question: Is there any aftermarket non-marklin motors similar to the C-sine ones that I could purchase to digitalize old locos?

I'm looking for another (a better if possible) motor option than the 5 pole motors.
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
Offline torle  
#13 Posted : 01 January 2015 19:41:32(UTC)
torle

United States   
Joined: 05/06/2004(UTC)
Posts: 16
Location: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted by: Hackcell Go to Quoted Post
Happy new year everybody!

> Now a quick question: Is there any aftermarket non-marklin motors similar to the C-sine ones that I could purchase to > digitalize old locos?

There used to be a Swiss company that offered their version of a C-sine motor called a DsM. But it has gotten very quiet around their products - I haven't heard or read of anyone being able to actually get one of these conversion kits.
The idea sounded great and I was ready to convert my older DSM powered Märklin loks if the price was reasonable. The motors were to come with an adapter circuit board that would convert the output of any digital decoder to the format needed by their DsM which made it an attractive way to upgrade older Mä locos. But then it got awfully quiet around this company.

The still have a web page:
http://www.rail4you.ch/d...mente/Drehstrommotor.pdf

-=tom=-
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Offline ice 1  
#14 Posted : 02 January 2015 10:43:38(UTC)
ice 1


Joined: 30/12/2014(UTC)
Posts: 123
Location: IRELAND
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: ice 1 Go to Quoted Post
Even tough I ran a Marklin Taurus ref 39834 with the compact design C-Sine it looked to me when i removed the loco body like a cheap can motor
You have to take the motor apart to judge its quality.
The compact C Sine motor has ball-bearings and no brushes (the rotor is the permanent magnet).
Cheap can motors have no ball-bearings. Precision can motors have no ball-bearings either. Differences are with the brush holders and other internal details.

Originally Posted by: ice 1 Go to Quoted Post
some said Marklin couldnt use the larger C-Sine motor with the MFX decoders
Märklin used the large C Sine motor in three mfx models. Probably the motors were too expensive, but they can be (and have been) used with mfx decoders.


Hi
Thanks for your feedback i knew it wasnt a can motor but it just looked way cheaper than the larger C-sine Motor that was in ref 39833 and 832 which is attached to a chassis block also.
One quick question how much do these C-sine Motors cost to replace in a loco eg the Compact C-sine and and the larger one thats in 39833.
As im just thinking it might be handy to have one or 2 as spares for whenever they do go as i dont see any on the dealer websites only high efficiency conversion kits.
Has many people needed to replace them C-Sine motors as when i was watching 39834 flying around at full speed i was thinking how long can it last flat out but then again you wouldnt be goin flat out on a layout i suppose would prefer at that rate having to put in brushes into the high efficiency motor.
Offline H0  
#15 Posted : 02 January 2015 10:56:48(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
The C-Sine motor is maintenance-free and built for longevity - no brushes.
The new can motors are maintenance-free.

I never had any failures with C-Sine motors and I do not stock any spare parts for them. I'll get second hand models if one of them should fail in the future.
It seems the weakest spot are the cables between motor driver and motor.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline ice 1  
#16 Posted : 02 January 2015 12:20:17(UTC)
ice 1


Joined: 30/12/2014(UTC)
Posts: 123
Location: IRELAND
Thanks Ho
I looked at the part sheets that came with locos 39834 n 835 and got the motor part number 109-105 i thought the steam loco 39010 Br01 would have the same motor but it doesnt 231-479 goin by part numbers
For the locos 39833 and 39832 its hard to get the actual loco motor number as its all blown up to much parts wise i came out with 213-259 as the motor but it seems to say with decoder and does that include the gears as they seem to be different numbers and 39579 C103 has a different ref number to them even tough it appears to be the same motor.I might just get a price for the motor in 39834 just out of curoisity and who knows might get one at a later date.You would think Marklin would just give you a motor part number including everything you need for replacements.

Offline ice 1  
#17 Posted : 09 January 2015 13:32:25(UTC)
ice 1


Joined: 30/12/2014(UTC)
Posts: 123
Location: IRELAND
Hi
I got an email back from a Marklin Dealer to say that Marklin dont offer the C-Sine motor as a spare part dont ask me why.
Mark
Offline RayF  
#18 Posted : 09 January 2015 13:40:39(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: ice 1 Go to Quoted Post
Hi
I got an email back from a Marklin Dealer to say that Marklin dont offer the C-Sine motor as a spare part dont ask me why.
Mark


Maybe because they never need replacing?

I think if you have a problem in the future with a C-Sine loco it's best to send it to Marklin for repair.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline ice 1  
#19 Posted : 09 January 2015 13:44:27(UTC)
ice 1


Joined: 30/12/2014(UTC)
Posts: 123
Location: IRELAND
Mark here
Thats not the point under European Consumer Law you have to supply spare parts.
Send it back to Marklin out of warranty and pay how much to have it repaired.
Offline RayF  
#20 Posted : 09 January 2015 13:51:46(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: ice 1 Go to Quoted Post
Mark here
Thats not the point under European Consumer Law you have to supply spare parts.


Really? How long do they have to stock spare parts for a discontinued product?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline ice 1  
#21 Posted : 09 January 2015 14:04:57(UTC)
ice 1


Joined: 30/12/2014(UTC)
Posts: 123
Location: IRELAND
More than 2 years or not at all in Marklins case.
That C-Sine motor was sold by Marklin saying its maintenance free and when it goes you just stick in a replacement and away you go they never said that these replacement motors would not be available.
Going by the quality of some of Marklin recent offerings i wouldnt be surprised if the compact C-Sine doesnt last to long compared to the better larger version.
Offline RayF  
#22 Posted : 09 January 2015 14:30:39(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
A C-sine motor would not be classed as a "user servicable item", so I think my advice to send it back to Marklin for repair is not unreasonable. I own many items which I cannot service myself, and it is quite usual nowadays to have to send electrical and electronic items back for repair. I think you have also misinterpreted Marklin's words. I don't think they ever intended for anyone to just "stick in a replacement". They just advised that a faulty or worn out motor would need to be replaced.

The old Marklin motors were made to be user servicable, but at the cost of also being more maintenance intensive, and frankly not terribly sophisticated. They are not known as "coffee grinders" for nothing.

As to the quality of recent Marklin products? I have very few complaints about my recent products. There have been some problems with quality control, but that is a different issue from the quality of the product.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline ice 1  
#23 Posted : 09 January 2015 14:50:01(UTC)
ice 1


Joined: 30/12/2014(UTC)
Posts: 123
Location: IRELAND
Your missing the point with the C-Sine motor you run it til it dies and stick in a new one it has no serviceable parts unless the decoder dies.
Ive seen the compact C-SINE motor that comes in my locos 39010 39834 and 39835 and similar in 39050 its small and im thinking of cost its not rocket science to take that out and put in a new one okay the older C-Sine Seems more complex.
I have a person i go to with any issues i have with locos like decoder problems putting in sound in locos etc and im sure he would be alot cheaper than dealing with Marklin direct esp out of Warranty so when you cant get the part a person has no choice put to deal with Marklin and be charged what ?
Offline RayF  
#24 Posted : 09 January 2015 15:25:11(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Have you actually a problem with your motor?

If you do then I agree with you that I've missed the point. I expect to have many years of service from my C-Sine locos without the motor needing replacement.

If you prefer to pre-empt problems then I think you may be worrying needlessly.

By the way, I've found the Marklin service department very helpful, so if you email them with your concerns they might come back to you with a reply more to your liking.

However if all you want to do is ask open questions on a forum then don't be disappointed with the replies you get, which by the way, at least from my side, are intended to be helpful and informative.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline ice 1  
#25 Posted : 09 January 2015 15:28:40(UTC)
ice 1


Joined: 30/12/2014(UTC)
Posts: 123
Location: IRELAND
Thats fine
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Offline ice 1  
#26 Posted : 09 January 2015 15:53:58(UTC)
ice 1


Joined: 30/12/2014(UTC)
Posts: 123
Location: IRELAND
I just like to carry spare parts thats all since im going running quite a few.
As you say dont be looking for problems.
Ive just noticed that the motor part number that comes with the Insider Class 05 ref 39050 is the same part number as the motor that comes in 39010 even tough one is meant to be different a Softdrive Sine maybe just in name.
The metal staples on the 39010 and 39050 booklet have rusted some amount but thankfully thats all that shows signs of rust metal railings along loco has no specs of rust unlike 37991 in 2 small places.
Offline H0  
#27 Posted : 09 January 2015 16:01:01(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
The SDS replaced the Compact C-Sine (CCS) motor. Both have the same spare parts number.
39010 was made a long time, initially with CCS, later with SDS. Explosion diagram on the Internet shows the latest version that was made.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline ice 1  
#28 Posted : 09 January 2015 16:08:48(UTC)
ice 1


Joined: 30/12/2014(UTC)
Posts: 123
Location: IRELAND
I see !!!
I just thought at the time i purchased 39050 Marklin described the Softdrive Sine motor as been this new motor but maybe im wrong.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#29 Posted : 09 January 2015 23:50:57(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: ice 1 Go to Quoted Post
I see !!!
I just thought at the time i purchased 39050 Marklin described the Softdrive Sine motor as been this new motor but maybe im wrong.


The difference is in the drive electronics.
Offline H0  
#30 Posted : 10 January 2015 07:50:12(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: ice 1 Go to Quoted Post
I just thought at the time i purchased 39050 Marklin described the Softdrive Sine motor as been this new motor but maybe im wrong.
The Compact C Sine (CCS) had built up a bad reputation (well deserved by the way - how could they release that to manufacturing?).
They made a minuscule modification to the motor, applied a new name "Softdrive Sinus" and made a big advertising campaign.
Dimensions of the motor had not changed - and in fact they primarily debugged the electronics. All CCS locos work as good as SDS locos if they got the new electronics.

At that time they wrote the SDS would be the motor for premium models for years to come ...

From the brochure (2007):
Quote:
The new Märklin Softdrive Sine motor is very compact and even fits into smaller locomotives. The size is the same as the
previous compact design standard C-Sine motor.
The Softdrive Sine is, in conjunction with the reworked control electronics, the best and most innovative propulsion concept
from Märklin. Based on its performance, it is the foundation for all future high end locomotives from Märklin in the H0 area
and will win over the ambitious model railroader with the best of running characteristics.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline ice 1  
#31 Posted : 10 January 2015 11:15:19(UTC)
ice 1


Joined: 30/12/2014(UTC)
Posts: 123
Location: IRELAND
Hi
I think since about 2011 the Class 01 has come with a High Efficiency Motor do you know why Marklin stopped putting in the compact Soft driveSine motor into the Class 01 its hardly for cheaper costs as im sure the High Efficiency Motor costs more to produce.
Offline H0  
#32 Posted : 10 January 2015 13:17:34(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: ice 1 Go to Quoted Post
its hardly for cheaper costs as im sure the High Efficiency Motor costs more to produce.
Not?
An SDS with driver electronics costed about € 150 as spare part.
Some "high efficiency motors" were listed for € 15 a few months ago (price was raised to € 30, probably because people in fora mocked about the cheap motors). No driver electronics needed with those motors.

The spare parts costs probably are a multiple of what Märklin pay for the items, but I think this still shows that SDS was much more expensive.

The motor for 39017 is listed as € 40.
The motor for 39010 is not available, but the driver electronics for it are listed as € 99.95. Add the motor (€ 40 through 60 as spare part).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline ice 1  
#33 Posted : 10 January 2015 13:25:45(UTC)
ice 1


Joined: 30/12/2014(UTC)
Posts: 123
Location: IRELAND
Okay thanks ,
So its down to cutting costs that the Class 01 motor was changed and they still charge the same high price.
So SDS is the way to go if the model doesnt have it dont buy it Marklin might get the message then
Offline H0  
#34 Posted : 10 January 2015 14:13:58(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
The other expensive motor type besides SDS is the motor with bell-shaped armature. With most Märklin models they found cost-efficient replacements for this motor, too.

"High efficiency propulsion" sounds good - but any DC motor with permanent magnet can have this name.
DC can motors are available with varying quality and at different price levels.
Buy it if you think it's good value for the money - otherwise leave it.

Re my previous post: the motor for the latest class 01 loco (39008) is listed with € 25. The motor for the 39017 is listed with € 40, but has a different number than given in the PDF.
One dealer has the original motor E182 356 (the number from the PDF) listed with an RRP of € 89.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline mbarreto  
#35 Posted : 10 January 2015 14:16:19(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,257
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ice 1 Go to Quoted Post
its hardly for cheaper costs as im sure the High Efficiency Motor costs more to produce.
Not?
An SDS with driver electronics costed about € 150 as spare part.
Some "high efficiency motors" were listed for € 15 a few months ago (price was raised to € 30, probably because people in fora mocked about the cheap motors). No driver electronics needed with those motors.

The spare parts costs probably are a multiple of what Märklin pay for the items, but I think this still shows that SDS was much more expensive.

The motor for 39017 is listed as € 40.
The motor for 39010 is not available, but the driver electronics for it are listed as € 99.95. Add the motor (€ 40 through 60 as spare part).


Although I easily accept the price of the SDS and the ESC (Electronic Speed Controller) are high, it is not all clear for me the price of a product reflects the cost of its production.

I am not an R/C expert but I see they use lots of brushless motors (usually 3 pole like 3 phase) and ESC devices. The price of both has a considerable range, although power and current ratings are important factor in price. The SDS has a lot of power but I think far from what
the most expensive R/C motors and ESC can deliver.

Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


Offline ice 1  
#36 Posted : 10 January 2015 14:51:09(UTC)
ice 1


Joined: 30/12/2014(UTC)
Posts: 123
Location: IRELAND
One great thing about collecting HAG locos was the same good motor was found in all the locos.
When the carbon brushes need replacing say in the High efficiency Motor how does this show up in the motor does it just stop running or Does it make a certain noise just curious.

Edited by user 11 January 2015 14:03:00(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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