Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline db ice3  
#1 Posted : 28 December 2014 10:25:03(UTC)
db ice3


Joined: 24/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 178
Location: uk
im looking for ( amongst other things! ) and ICE 1 train.

iv seen 37702 and 39711.

im confused about this! which one is the newer model? and which one is the better model?

does one of these run better than the other, is one better mechanically / technically than the other or are they basically the same?

marklin is very confusing to newbies!

i appreciate your experience on here and advice as to which of these 2 would be the better purchase.

id like sound functions and interior lighting and of course smooth running. they both on the surface offer this ... but what else is different?

many thanks
Offline RayF  
#2 Posted : 28 December 2014 11:34:53(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi Jay,

Can I suggest that one of the first priorities for a "Newbie" is to know where to look for information. If you check out Marklin's database on their website it describes in detail all their products from 2000 onwards.

http://www.maerklin.com/...arch/product_search.html

Looking here one can see that the newer train is the 37702 from 2011, which has MFX and extensive sound functions.

However, the 39711, which dates from 2002-2005, is fitted with the excellent C-Sine motor, which is argueably the best Marklin has ever made. Sound is more basic on this one.

It's difficult to advise on which is the best, but for me I would choose mfx over the C-sine motor. Others may choose differently.

Marklin has been making models of the ICE since the mid 1980s, and there are a lot of them out there. Narrowing your choice down to these two models may help, but be aware of other models that also occasionally come up on ebay.

Hope this helps!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#3 Posted : 28 December 2014 13:57:57(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jay,

Can I suggest that one of the first priorities for a "Newbie" is to know where to look for information. If you check out Marklin's database on their website it describes in detail all their products from 2000 onwards.

http://www.maerklin.com/...arch/product_search.html

Looking here one can see that the newer train is the 37702 from 2011, which has MFX and extensive sound functions.

However, the 39711, which dates from 2002-2005, is fitted with the excellent C-Sine motor, which is argueably the best Marklin has ever made. Sound is more basic on this one.

It's difficult to advise on which is the best, but for me I would choose mfx over the C-sine motor. Others may choose differently.

Marklin has been making models of the ICE since the mid 1980s, and there are a lot of them out there. Narrowing your choice down to these two models may help, but be aware of other models that also occasionally come up on ebay.

Hope this helps!


IIRC one series of ICE had all the sounds in the restaurant car, which was an additional wagon, not part of the basic train.

The later ones may well have the sounds in the basic train, but I haven't been keeping up to speed (pun intended) on the ICE units that Marklin has made.

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline steventrain  
#4 Posted : 28 December 2014 14:07:49(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
There is also 2014 new item 37703 five cars set with sounds. Add on set 43705 three centre cars for the 37703.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by steventrain
Offline 60904  
#5 Posted : 28 December 2014 19:51:28(UTC)
60904

Germany   
Joined: 27/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 312
My first choice would be the 39711- I converted the ICE to C Sinus.
Greetings
Martin
Offline db ice3  
#6 Posted : 29 December 2014 13:14:41(UTC)
db ice3


Joined: 24/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 178
Location: uk
Ray F - many thanks ray for your info and the link to the marklin database.

this is very very useful - much appreciate this info!

from all the replies - im guessing it would be better to have the " mecahanically better model " - the one with the sinus motor as it would be failry easy to swop the sound decoder at a later stage if i wanted more / better running sounds than it would be swopping motors around?

what kind of motor came in the later models after the sinus motor? is the later motor type not so good as the sinus motor?

many thanks once again for your help and sharing your valuable experience.

this forum is like going into a great big model shop full of knowledgeable people - its great! thanks everyone!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by db ice3
Offline biedmatt  
#7 Posted : 29 December 2014 13:26:39(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Originally Posted by: db ice3 Go to Quoted Post
from all the replies - im guessing it would be better to have the " mecahanically better model " - the one with the sinus motor as it would be failry easy to swop the sound decoder at a later stage if i wanted more / better running sounds than it would be swopping motors around?


Unfortunately, not if you mean 39711. The first generation Sinus drives used a circuit board where the decoder and the electronics for the brushless motor are one and the same. No one has offered a replacement Sinus drive electronics board that will accept an MTC21 decoder. So with these first gen FX decoders/motor drives, you are kind of stuck. Around 2005 M started to make the locos with a Sinus drive circuit board that has the MTC21 connector for the then new MFX decoder. These are easy to upgrade, I've done several. Confusing eh? My simple rule of thumb is if it has Sinus drive and an FX decoder, you can't upgrade the decoder. If it has Sinus drive and an MFX decoder, you can change the decoder. This info will be shown in Marklin's product info Ray has so kindly linked above.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by biedmatt
Offline db ice3  
#8 Posted : 29 December 2014 14:10:21(UTC)
db ice3


Joined: 24/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 178
Location: uk
biedmatt - thankyou for that info!.

using the database info ( im getting there lol ) i see the 39711 has the FX decoder so this cannot be changed.

so it would in this case be better to buy the slightly more expensive 37702 instead as the mfx decoder Can be changed.

however, my next Q, so sorry, beginning to feel guilty about asking all the q's! ...

would i want to change the mfx decoder in the 37702? ... or is it fine as it is?

( as an aside, ), i thought a motor is a motor, why does the sinus motor require special circuitary to drive it? does someone like esu not make a decoder ( i just see they make some marklin compatible electronics for other things ) that will do away with the sinus circuit board and just drive the motor directly? what does this cicuit board actually do?
Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 29 December 2014 19:31:15(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: db ice3 Go to Quoted Post
why does the sinus motor require special circuitary to drive it?
It's a brushless DC motor with six connections, not a standard commutator motor.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline biedmatt  
#10 Posted : 29 December 2014 19:59:23(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
The 37702 is the better choice if you want a full spectrum of sound. You probably will never be able to get all sound functions with 39711. I just don't see anyone making the circuit board needed to operate the Sinus drive. The MFX decoder provided with 37702 has about all of the sound functions covered. Not to start a discussion that goes off topic, but only you can decide about the MFX decoder. I would try it and see if it suits your needs. Depending on how you operate your layout, it may not. Neither Tom nor I run our lokos with MFX, but most here do and they are very happy with the way MFX functions. I would worry about that later.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by biedmatt
Offline db ice3  
#11 Posted : 30 December 2014 05:24:47(UTC)
db ice3


Joined: 24/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 178
Location: uk
thanks for the explanation HO and biedmatt

looks like a 37702 then as long as its an ok runner as i would like the full sound spectrum!.
Offline ice 1  
#12 Posted : 31 December 2014 11:50:39(UTC)
ice 1


Joined: 30/12/2014(UTC)
Posts: 123
Location: IRELAND
Originally Posted by: db ice3 Go to Quoted Post
Ray F - many thanks ray for your info and the link to the marklin database.

this is very very useful - much appreciate this info!

from all the replies - im guessing it would be better to have the " mecahanically better model " - the one with the sinus motor as it would be failry easy to swop the sound decoder at a later stage if i wanted more / better running sounds than it would be swopping motors around?

what kind of motor came in the later models after the sinus motor? is the later motor type not so good as the sinus motor?

many thanks once again for your help and sharing your valuable experience.

this forum is like going into a great big model shop full of knowledgeable people - its great! thanks everyone!

Hi ALL
Im new here to.
I would just like to know where you can get the ICE 1 Set 39711 Ebay i take it.
Just to say the ref number 39 on a loco ref number tells you it has a C-sine motor newer models might have a compact C-sine motor like 39834 (MFX) and 39835(MFX) my other 2 Taurus locos have the older C-Sine ref 39832(FX) AND 39833(FX) and then newer locos again have the softdrive Sine Motor.
You might be better buying new ie ref 37703 and there is a few of ref 37702 the 20th anniversary 5 car set still available
I know of a german Marklin shop selling the ICE 1 Set 37703 For €450 seems a great price to me.
I know a dealer in the states has the ICE 1 Insider Set 39710 but at $950 seems to much to me even if its rare and at that price you wouldnt buy it to run it if you know what i mean and it has no sound and i dont think it has interior lighting Marklin just wanted feedback on the new C-sine motor at the time from modellers in about 1999 or 2000
I ran a class 101 with the high efficiency motor in it ref 37386 and a Class 120 37538 they have the same motor as the ICE 37703 any Loco ref 37 tells you its a high efficiency motor and its super fast thought it would come off the tracks it was that quick only draw back they need brushes replaced unlike the C-sine where ya get a whole new motor when it dies cant say how long that is im sure traction tyres are main item thats needs replacing.Good luck and Happy New Year to you
Offline biedmatt  
#13 Posted : 31 December 2014 12:53:55(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Another option is to buy 3750 and convert it to sound following these instructions.

https://www.marklin-user...nversion.aspx#post395999

3750 was a limited release item, but they can be found at eBay.de in nearly new condition for a nice price. Upgrade the decoder as shown in the link above and you get full sound. 3750 was modelled on an unusual version of the ICE1 prototypes. It was fit with a second pair of pantographs so it could also operate on Swiss catenary. The prototype also had one loko named "Elizabeth" on the side near the cab door. At the time this had never been seen on an ICE1 before. The motor will be the old five pole coffee grinder, but the ESU decoder regulates it just fine and you will be able to service and support the coffee grinder motors forever. You will end up with a nice set for not a whole lot of coin. You just need to add some sweat equity.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline ice 1  
#14 Posted : 31 December 2014 14:17:13(UTC)
ice 1


Joined: 30/12/2014(UTC)
Posts: 123
Location: IRELAND
Hi
I think 3750 was based on the ICE Set that was tested in switzerland
3700 was a special ICE AMTRAK version that visited the states im sure thats worth money now the ICE Set
Stick on a new set of traction tyres and ya have a new loco
Does 3750 have the same motor thats in the Class 128 12x locos love the kind of rubber burning smell they give off when running they all seem to do that the 12x locos have 5 collected.
Happy New Year
Offline biedmatt  
#15 Posted : 31 December 2014 15:11:47(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
I am not sure which motor the class 128 has, but you can see the exploded parts list for 3770 here:

http://www.maerklin.de/s...1&artikelnummer=3770


3770 is technically the same inside as 3750.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#16 Posted : 31 December 2014 17:44:13(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: ice 1 Go to Quoted Post

I know a dealer in the states has the ICE 1 Insider Set 39710 but at $950 seems to much to me even if its rare and at that price you wouldnt buy it to run it if you know what i mean and it has no sound and i dont think it has interior lighting Marklin just wanted feedback on the new C-sine motor at the time from modellers in about 1999 or 2000.


That model is of the ICS-S which was an experimental train to try out new developments in motor drives and so on for use on future production ICE trains.

Marklin chose to model it as the very first model with the C-Sine motor to test the marketing potential of the motor. It was limited to 5000 units IIRC and offered to Insider members by ballot. Those members who sent back the test report were rewarded with a small multimeter with the Marklin branding.

I would not consider this to be a model for someone looking for a proper ICE train. The ICE-S was only ever a four unit train, and had a special yellow marking down the side to denote its experimental status. This yellow marking was also suited to the experimental nature of the C-Sine motor in the model.

The ICE-S was also issued under the Trix label with a standard motor. I don't know how widely available it was but I did consider getting one and modifying it to three rail seeing I missed out on the ballot.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline ice 1  
#17 Posted : 01 January 2015 02:04:38(UTC)
ice 1


Joined: 30/12/2014(UTC)
Posts: 123
Location: IRELAND
Hi all happy new year
Thanks Kiwialan for your help know so little so much to know.
With the ICE Sets that come with interior lighting can you turn it on and off as you wish and does the light intensity fade at times going around the layout cant see my mobile station been to powerful
Happy new to you all
Users browsing this topic
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.953 seconds.