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Offline mike c  
#1 Posted : 21 December 2014 22:21:44(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
I saw this listing on ebay.de:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/m...ok-sbb-ffs-/161529526271

and I was curious as to whether this was an official release or whether somebody has altered the box. AFAIR the Re 4/4II was available from Trix in red (22585) and TEE (22744). I don't think that other than the 21333 Set with coaches, it was ever released in green, neither as Trix nor as Hamo. The box number 87341 comes back as a set of Eurofima coaches in Z scale, leading me to believe that somebody may have simply altered a 37341 box to read 87341 and added Hamo Gleichstrom markings.

Hopefully some Hamo experts can help me out.

Regards

Mike C
Offline NS1200  
#2 Posted : 22 December 2014 17:02:10(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
Mike,

I think this is a fraud!
Marklin have not issued models under the Hamo brandname for a long time.
They could be keeping the name Hamo under the sleeve but since the brandname Trix covers the 2-rail DC market there is no need to sell anything under the name of Hamo.
Furthermore,the model has been provided with a Fleischmann coupling on one end,the other end has no coupling,strange.
Also strange is the wording that this loco would be part one of something else.
Please see Marklin 37323,a set of two electric loco's,one green Re 6/6 and one green Re 4/4 II,in combination known as Re 10/10.

Whatever it is,i would not recommend to buy it at any price!

Paul.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
Online steventrain  
#3 Posted : 22 December 2014 17:20:01(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,594
Location: United Kingdom
I think ex-owner change it to 2-rail digital and add Hamo sticker on it and I think black ink wrote two 'c' on 3.

The same running number from 37341 (one time in 1996).
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by steventrain
Offline Webmaster  
#4 Posted : 22 December 2014 17:39:08(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
I'm with Stephen here...

But - Some special models had 8 added to the beginning during the mid-90's - as eg 83496 BR96 in Metal version (Delta).

The box for the "87341" does however indicate that it is a 37341 with the grey box color & the red digital logo.
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline Webmaster  
#5 Posted : 22 December 2014 18:07:15(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
Sent the seller this question:

Hello,

Is this a 37341 that has been converted to 2-rail DC?
Would it be possible to get a picture of the instruction leaflet front page too?

Best regards
Juhan
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline Webmaster  
#6 Posted : 22 December 2014 18:30:26(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
And the quick answer:

hallo
danke für ihr schreiben die lok ist auf gleichstrom umgebaut füge noch ein bild hinzu bitte bei ebay nachschauen
mfg
arno


And in "Googlish":

hello
thank you for your write lok is converted to DC would add an image please check on ebay
mfg
arno



Edit: I recognize this guy, must have bought something from him in the past...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline NS1200  
#7 Posted : 22 December 2014 20:10:08(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
I think it is still a fraud because one is not to invent Marklin productnumbers which are not known to Marklin itself.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
Offline Webmaster  
#8 Posted : 22 December 2014 20:43:16(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
Of course the model number is a "fraud", but I think the seller is honest when questions asked.
Only "fools" (as Goofy would put it) would buy this without asking the seller first... Wink

And I remember now that I have bought some Trix Orient Express wagon(s) from this person with no problems at all.
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline mike c  
#9 Posted : 23 December 2014 07:51:41(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
There were a lot of people who swapped shells of green Maerklin models (mostly the loco from the 29858/9 Set) with the TEE shell of the 37343. This one seemed to correspond with the 37341 (official model) except for the DC conversion, but it was the alteration of the number and the "Hamo Gleichstrom" label that intrigued me.
This topic has now been resolved to my satisfaction, but there is a new mystery to be resolved…

https://www.marklin-user...al-model.aspx#post476872

Regards

Mike C
Offline NS1200  
#10 Posted : 23 December 2014 09:39:39(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
Of course the model number is a "fraud", but I think the seller is honest when questions asked.
Only "fools" (as Goofy would put it) would buy this without asking the seller first... Wink

And I remember now that I have bought some Trix Orient Express wagon(s) from this person with no problems at all.


In what sort of world are we living where people are called honest when they make up their own truth by creating Marklin productnumbers which do not exist?
Reminds of people trying to sell "The American Northlander".
I have a differtent definition of honest.

Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
Offline RayF  
#11 Posted : 23 December 2014 12:09:24(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
The act of changing catalogue numbers to conform to a changed description of the model is not new and has been almost standard practice in some circles.

I remember some years ago being surprised to read a description of a "3790" for sale, described as having previously been a 3690 but had been converted by the vendor with a 60901 kit, bringing it up to the same standard as the 3790.

I have also seen examples of locos for sale where the second digit "0" has been changed to a "6" on installation of a 6080 decoder. eg. a 3021 has become a 3621.

I assume the item for sale which is the subject of this thread follows the same principle, where the person who converted the loco to DC changed the number to start with 8 to denote a Hamo conversion. I don't see this as dishonest, as the item for sale is effectively identical to what Marklin would have built with that item number. Perhaps the description could benefit from a bit of explanation, to avoid confusion.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline NS1200  
#12 Posted : 23 December 2014 16:31:26(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
It is like selling a BMW 318 and calling it a 535,it just is not right.
If it is not fraud,it is just plain stupid.
The only party allowed to change Marklin productnumbers is Marklin.
The "would if" is not valid,Marklin has not produced it with the number as advertised,so why the argument?
Someone messed up the Marklin model badly and is now trying to get rid of it.
What to do with a Fleischmann coupling,and why is it there?
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by NS1200
Offline Webmaster  
#13 Posted : 25 December 2014 21:30:22(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
Ask the seller is my tip - most are honest about what is done to a model... At least when I have asked...

Then you make your decision about buying or not - simple as that. If annoyed by an auction - move on to the next one...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Webmaster
Offline Bart  
#14 Posted : 08 January 2015 23:55:03(UTC)
Bart

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/05/2002(UTC)
Posts: 670
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
Sent the seller this question:

Hello,

Is this a 37341 that has been converted to 2-rail DC?

Funny additional observation:
See the serial number at the 2nd Ebay photo: H6046539.

The 37341 was released in 1996
My 37341 has serial number H6046507
*Bart
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