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Offline steventrain  
#1 Posted : 17 December 2014 18:55:32(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,594
Location: United Kingdom
Message from Marklin via email.

Recall Software-Programm - PC-Version für Märklin Central Station CS2

ENGLISH version

There has been a new software-program for the PC-version of our central station on our website since dec. 11th, 2014.

Programname: Installationsprogramm CS2.exe Version 3.8.1(11)

Although we tested this program carefully, the installation-routine may have a problem under specific cirumstances. Also data on the PC not used by this software may be deleted when you try to uninstall the software.

In case you downloaded the software during the period of dec. 11th and dec. 16th 2014, please proceed as follows: •DO NOT UNINSTALL the program from your PC – please wait for further information
•Do not install the program on your PC, if you have downloaded, but not installed so far.
We are working very hard to provide a repair-program. This will be available within the next days at this specific place (where you usually find our updates):

http://www.maerklin.de/d...ds/software_updates.html

Please follow any instructions there and do not uninstall the current version.

The repair-program will be available as an update for your PC, named cs2_setup.exe in version 3.8.1(12). This update has to be installed without uninstalling the current version from your PC.

Details of the bug:

Problem occurs within the initial start of the program on your PC, when using the default directory as working directory for the central station program and then uninstalling the program via the uninstall-routine.

In this case the data of central station program on the PC BUT ALSO further User Data will be deleted from the PC.

IMPORTANT: The bug occurs only in the PC-version for CS2 software 3.8.1, which allows an extension of the Central Station to your PC screen (CS2.exe version 3.8.1(11) dated dec. 11th 2014). The core CS2-update 3.8.1, dated dec 2nd 2014 is not affected.

We are very sorry for the inconvenience.

Your Märklin Customer Care centre.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline sjlauritsen  
#2 Posted : 17 December 2014 19:09:14(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
I've tested the installer program in a virtual machine.

The problem occurs because the uninstall procedure assumes that you have created a dedicated folder for the CS2 files.

1. When you run the CS2 software for the first time, It will ask you to choose a folder. Unfortunately, it defaults to the your User folder on Windows. If you do not create a folder specific for the CS2 and just click the Select folder button, it will choose your User folder and copy its files (around 4200 of them) to it.
2. The CS2 program will write your selected folder into the Registry under HKCU\Software\Maerklin\CS2\defaults\AppDir.
3. When you run the uninstall program, it will read this value and delete whatever folder you chose. If that was your Home folder, you are in bad luck.

If you are unsure on all of the above, please wait for Märklin to release a fix. If you are a risk kid, you can edit the value of the Registry key to point to another folder and move all the CS2 files from your home folder to that folder.

My tests have shown that the CS2 uninstaller will remove whatever folder is in the registry key and all of its content. So if you dedicate a folder to this purpose, you are home free.
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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Offline Webmaster  
#3 Posted : 17 December 2014 20:29:58(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
So I should be safe then, I always install in a custom folder outside the "Users" folder when/if the installation question comes up...

Really hate installations that assume you want your appdata in "My Documents" and such - eg iTunes, VirtualBox and so on... Glare
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Offline mike c  
#4 Posted : 18 December 2014 03:30:26(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
DO NOT INSTALL THIS VERSION AT THE PRESENT MOMENT.

Maerklin's communique informs users that the uninstall program deletes registry values and links that may affect other software and other operations than it's Central Station software. This means that even if you install in a custom folder, it can change settings that affect other programs and the operation of your PC.
If you have installed it and used the uninstaller (which I presume deletes an earlier version of the software), you may not be able to figure out which settings have been modified until you encounter a crash with other software.

Regards

Mike C
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Online xxup  
#5 Posted : 18 December 2014 03:50:12(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,452
Location: Australia
Wow! That is a spectacular bug - I can't recall Microsoft delivering one that deletes your whole user's folder.. LOL

Another example of poor testing. Someone is going to lose their job over this one.. Blushing
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
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Offline seatrains  
#6 Posted : 18 December 2014 04:17:13(UTC)
seatrains

United States   
Joined: 22/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 669
Location: Shoreline, WA
WTF..Mad do they do any quality control or is that to much to ask? Confused
Thom
European Train Enthusiast - Pacific Northwest Chapter
4th Division, Pacific Northwest Region, National Model Railroaders Association
Offline Alberto Pedrini  
#7 Posted : 18 December 2014 09:02:43(UTC)
Alberto Pedrini

Italy   
Joined: 02/07/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,448
Location: Italy
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
I've tested the installer program in a virtual machine.

The problem occurs because the uninstall procedure assumes that you have created a dedicated folder for the CS2 files.

1. When you run the CS2 software for the first time, It will ask you to choose a folder. Unfortunately, it defaults to the your User folder on Windows. If you do not create a folder specific for the CS2 and just click the Select folder button, it will choose your User folder and copy its files (around 4200 of them) to it.
2. The CS2 program will write your selected folder into the Registry under HKCU\Software\Maerklin\CS2\defaults\AppDir.
3. When you run the uninstall program, it will read this value and delete whatever folder you chose. If that was your Home folder, you are in bad luck.

If you are unsure on all of the above, please wait for Märklin to release a fix. If you are a risk kid, you can edit the value of the Registry key to point to another folder and move all the CS2 files from your home folder to that folder.

My tests have shown that the CS2 uninstaller will remove whatever folder is in the registry key and all of its content. So if you dedicate a folder to this purpose, you are home free.


Just to have more info, I've downloaded and installed the program on 13/12, and the default directory was C:/program/Maerklin/CS2
When the program start for the first time ask a new directory, so I have created a new C:/CS2 dati, now I've two directory almost similar

UserPostedImage

Regedit says

UserPostedImage

Is my installation safe or not?



Alberto

Marklinfan Club Italia
www.marklinfan.net
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Offline sjlauritsen  
#8 Posted : 18 December 2014 09:42:05(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: Alberto Pedrini Go to Quoted Post
Is my installation safe or not?

Your installation is safe. The keys you have found in the Registry are the installer documentation. This is perfectly fine. The problem with the uninstall procedure is that it has some custom methods, that handles the deletion of the working folder.

If you go to your Registry under "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Maerklin\CS2\defaults" you will see a reference to your "CS2 Dati" folder. This key is read during uninstall and that folder is deleted as well.

I unpacked the installation program to check the behaviour, and I noticed that the working folder was not mentioned in the installation/uninstall script file. This meant that the uninstall program must get this information from somewhere else. So I installed the software on a virtual machine and monitored the changes it made. I noticed that the CS2 program saves the information about the working folder when the program starts for the first time. At uninstall the uininstall program reads the value and deletes the folder.

This also proves that the uninstall is only problematic when the user did not select a specific folder for the CS2 files. The uninstall procedure does not remove random registry keys and what else has been mentioned. This must be a misunderstanding. As Märklin writes "user data", they mean the content of the Home folder, if you have not explicit created a folder for the purpose.

For the fun of it, I created a new installation program that installed the CS2 and created a working folder in the user's AppData folder. It also sets the registry key to point to that folder. When the CS2 program starts afterwards, it notices that the folder is already specified and copied its files into that folder. The user no longer needs to select a folder. I made sure that the uninstall procedure would remove that folder at uninstall. This way I put the responsibility of the working folder into the hands of the installation feature in Windows, and that way everything is safe.
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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Offline Drongo  
#9 Posted : 18 December 2014 10:20:11(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,221
Location: Sydney, NSW
This is the Aussie drongo - the program you are talking about I assume is the new program which connects your CS2 to a PC and that you can control your trains from the PC - is this correct?
I updated my CS2 directly from the internet - is this safe?

Regards
Greg
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Offline sjlauritsen  
#10 Posted : 18 December 2014 11:14:53(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
This is the Aussie drongo - the program you are talking about I assume is the new program which connects your CS2 to a PC and that you can control your trains from the PC - is this correct?
I updated my CS2 directly from the internet - is this safe?

Hey Drongo

This only applies to the PC version of the CS2 and only if you did not select a specific folder as the working folder during the startup of the program.

It does not apply to the hardware version of the CS2.

Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
Offline Gert-Jan  
#11 Posted : 18 December 2014 12:24:16(UTC)
Gert-Jan


Joined: 29/04/2005(UTC)
Posts: 777
Location: Netherlands
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
...

If you are unsure on all of the above, please wait for Märklin to release a fix. If you are a risk kid, you can edit the value of the Registry key to point to another folder and move all the CS2 files from your home folder to that folder.

My tests have shown that the CS2 uninstaller will remove whatever folder is in the registry key and all of its content. So if you dedicate a folder to this purpose, you are home free.


This error should take around 30 minutes to fix and rebuild the installer.
Faster than creating the official warning letter :-)
Mosty era III DB.
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Offline Alberto Pedrini  
#12 Posted : 18 December 2014 13:58:08(UTC)
Alberto Pedrini

Italy   
Joined: 02/07/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,448
Location: Italy
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
For the fun of it, I created a new installation program that installed the CS2 and created a working folder in the user's AppData folder. It also sets the registry key to point to that folder. When the CS2 program starts afterwards, it notices that the folder is already specified and copied its files into that folder. The user no longer needs to select a folder. I made sure that the uninstall procedure would remove that folder at uninstall. This way I put the responsibility of the working folder into the hands of the installation feature in Windows, and that way everything is safe.


For fun, write to the Märklin software engineers about the solution, not for free of course BigGrin Flapper
Alberto

Marklinfan Club Italia
www.marklinfan.net
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Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 18 December 2014 21:03:09(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,250
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
I've tested the installer program in a virtual machine.
Me, too.

I tried C:\ as the CS2 working folder. The PC no longer booted after the CS2 software was uninstalled.

Those who used a new, empty folder as the working folder for the CS2 do not have to worry.

Those who didn't use an empty folder should not uninstall. This also applies if you used the default folder.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline et1  
#14 Posted : 19 December 2014 00:21:20(UTC)
et1

United States   
Joined: 04/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 36
Location: Hawaii
Hello All,

What was the name of the default folder upon installation? I think I entered a different folder but I'm not sure anymore.

Also, What is a virtual machine? Is it a separate machine or is it as the name implies a program that can be run virtually on your laptop?
Sorry not that computer savvy:-)

Aloha,
Elliott
CS2 4.1.2 (3), CS 2.04, 6021, 3x 60174 Boosters, L88, 2x 60881, 13x 6088(0) ,Windigipet 2015 Premium, Marklin K-track layout (in progress)
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Offline sjlauritsen  
#15 Posted : 19 December 2014 06:44:50(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: et1 Go to Quoted Post
What was the name of the default folder upon installation? I think I entered a different folder but I'm not sure anymore.

It depends on your Windows installation what the exact folder is. But you can find the information in the Registry. If you run "Regedit" and browse (like a file system) to "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Maerklin\CS2\defaults". The path used by the CS2-application is mentioned in the appDir entry.

Originally Posted by: et1 Go to Quoted Post
Also, What is a virtual machine? Is it a separate machine or is it as the name implies a program that can be run virtually on your laptop?

A virtual machine is basically a computer in the computer. Some operating systems (e.g. Windows 8 and newer) have what is called a hypervisor. A hypervisor is a piece of software that can create and run virtual machines. Your computer is then the host computer and runs the virtual machine in a window, just like a normal program. The hypervisor talks to the hardware on the host computer and emulates the hardware that the virtual machine is running on. The virtual machine thinks that it is a real computer and behaves like it. Depending on the size of the host computer, you can have several virtual machines running on it. I use it all the time for testing purposes.

Virtual machines gives you several advantages over testing on real hardware. One of them is snapshots. You can take a point-in-time snapshot of the entire virtual machine and then have software (e.g. the central station installer) run and make a lot of changes. If something fails, you rollback to your snapshot and everything is back as it was. Ready for a new test. :-)

Virtualization of hardware is very popular in IT today. On my work we have around 56 servers running on three hosts servers (VMWare ESX). Like we say "We virtually run this place". Smile

Popular hypervisors are:
- Hyper-V (built into Windows 8 and newer) (You will need to enable the Windows feature "Hyper-V")
- VMWare (http://www.vmware.com/)
- VirtualBox (http://www.virtualbox.org/) (Free)

Here is a screenshot of a virtual machine running on my computer with the preview version of Windows 10 and the CS2 inside.
UserPostedImage
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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Offline MikeR  
#16 Posted : 19 December 2014 07:26:18(UTC)
MikeR

United States   
Joined: 26/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 263
Location: Denver
I loaded the CS2 on my train computer using the defaults. I have no need to uninstall the software so will continue using it and wait for M* to release the update and for one of you much more computer savvy members to test and OK the revised software.

From what I read above I am perfectly safe continuing to use the CS2 PC software. I have also backed up my train computer so I will be able to restore any folders that might get damaged or disappear.

Thanks for the explanations in this thread. It gives me comfort that we have a level of expertise between M* and computer users like myself that provides insulation from any potential catastrophes.
Mike
Digital - C track with CS2 and Railroad&Co TrainController; feedback using LocoIO via a Locobuffer
Analog - M track with solid centre rail (after C track layout is complete)
Collect all Eras - especially Crocodiles
Member of ETE
Previously a member of the Marklin Modellers' Group Johannesburg
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H0
Offline Gert-Jan  
#17 Posted : 19 December 2014 09:20:17(UTC)
Gert-Jan


Joined: 29/04/2005(UTC)
Posts: 777
Location: Netherlands
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
...
Originally Posted by: et1 Go to Quoted Post
Also, What is a virtual machine? Is it a separate machine or is it as the name implies a program that can be run virtually on your laptop?

A virtual machine is basically a computer in the computer. Some operating systems (e.g. Windows 8 and newer) have what is called a hypervisor. A hypervisor is a piece of software that can create and run virtual machines. Your computer is then the host computer and runs the virtual machine in a window, just like a normal program. The hypervisor talks to the hardware on the host computer and emulates the hardware that the virtual machine is running on. The virtual machine thinks that it is a real computer and behaves like it. Depending on the size of the host computer, you can have several virtual machines running on it. I use it all the time for testing purposes....


I would consider the locomotives with CS2 program's demo mode 'virtual machines' too ;-)
Mosty era III DB.
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Offline et1  
#18 Posted : 19 December 2014 19:17:25(UTC)
et1

United States   
Joined: 04/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 36
Location: Hawaii
Thank you Søren for the great explanation. I got it now.
Elliott
CS2 4.1.2 (3), CS 2.04, 6021, 3x 60174 Boosters, L88, 2x 60881, 13x 6088(0) ,Windigipet 2015 Premium, Marklin K-track layout (in progress)
Offline Webmaster  
#19 Posted : 19 December 2014 19:53:44(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
Søren, we are running about 200 virtual machines, 99% Windows servers in VMWare on 3 hosts (48 cores)...

Virtual machines are easy to set up, so it is an ideal way of testing stuff like this too - set it up, test and then delete it.
All done in software so it's a "fake" computer within another computer.

IBM invented the concept in the early 70's in the mainframe world and it has become commonplace nowadays
when the "PC processors" and i/o buses are powerful enough to handle what the mainframes did in the 80's... Wink

When I worked at IBM in the 80's, VM/CMS & VM/XA were used to host virtual mainframes & unix machines...
There was also a "hardware hypervisor" from IBM in the 80's-90's called PRSM that did it on a hardware level.

Sorry for digressing from the topic.... Blushing RollEyes
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Offline H0  
#20 Posted : 20 December 2014 08:34:59(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,250
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
Popular hypervisors are:
- Hyper-V (built into Windows 8 and newer) (You will need to enable the Windows feature "Hyper-V")
- VMWare (http://www.vmware.com/)
- VirtualBox (http://www.virtualbox.org/) (Free)
There also is Virtual PC from Microsoft, also for free.
The latest version is for Windows 7. Install XP Mode and you will get it.
For older Windows versions you can get Virtual PC 2007.

With a little hack, Virtual PC 2007 even works under Windows 8 (I have one computer with a 32-bit version of Windows 8 where I use VPC 2007).

Hyper-V is much better. If you have a 64-bit version of Windows 8/8.1 then better use Hyper-V.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Token  
#21 Posted : 20 December 2014 10:50:40(UTC)
Token

Australia   
Joined: 25/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 300
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi All,

version .12 loaded and working just fine. Can't wait to have my garage back so I can start rebuilding my layout again!!
Offline SHSB  
#22 Posted : 25 October 2015 17:41:17(UTC)
SHSB

United Kingdom   
Joined: 17/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Sussex, England
Hello Søren

In a post dated December 2014 you mentioned: "Here is a screenshot of a virtual machine running on my computer with the preview version of Windows 10 and the CS2 inside."

I would like to install the CS 2 PC version on my laptop, recently updated from Win 8.1 to win 10. Is the current version on the M* site safe and stable in Win 10 and is there anything I need to watch for aside from creating dedicated directories for the installation?

Regards


Robert
Offline sjlauritsen  
#23 Posted : 25 October 2015 21:33:14(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: SHSB Go to Quoted Post
Is the current version on the M* site safe and stable in Win 10 and is there anything I need to watch for aside from creating dedicated directories for the installation?

I think they've fixed the problem long ago.

On my Windows 10 it works pefectly and without any problems. I use it all the time.

Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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