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Offline idolezal  
#1 Posted : 13 December 2014 20:05:35(UTC)
idolezal

Netherlands   
Joined: 30/11/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8
Location: ZUID-HOLLAND, DEN HAAG
Hello all,

does anybody have experience with fitting Viessmann 4558 (motor and decoder for Maerklin/Trix) into turnout? In my opinion it just does not fit. I can assemble the mootor, but decoder is higher and is sticking out. Any idea what do I do wrong? I cannot imagine Viessmann design product specifically for M/T turnout and it does not fit in.

I did see Pictures and videos of (in my opinion) predecesor of 4558 - the 4554, which is general motor and decoder used for several track systems (Roco, Maerklin, ...).That one seems can be fitted in the bed as the motor includes decoder. In 4558 the decoder is separate and is about 3 mm higher than available space in the turnout bed.

Thank you for any advice before I return them all back.

Kind regards,

Ivo
Offline Drongo  
#2 Posted : 14 December 2014 00:15:07(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,221
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Ivo,

I recently bought 1 4558 to try and I also had trouble with the decoder fitting under the turnout. Fortunately for me, my track is sitting on 28mm thick polystyrene foam and I was able to "push" the decoder into the foam. I wanted to buy some more and Viessmann were out of stock and now they are available - perhaps they realised there mistake and have modified the decoder with the new production. This is only my speculation. Perhaps an email to Viessmann might clear up the situation.

As for the reliability of these motors compared to the Marklin motors - so far I've only had them for a few weeks and they are much more reliable than Marklin AND CHEAPER.
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#3 Posted : 14 December 2014 13:25:16(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Drongo Go to Quoted Post
Hi Ivo,

I recently bought 1 4558 to try and I also had trouble with the decoder fitting under the turnout. Fortunately for me, my track is sitting on 28mm thick polystyrene foam and I was able to "push" the decoder into the foam. I wanted to buy some more and Viessmann were out of stock and now they are available - perhaps they realised there mistake and have modified the decoder with the new production. This is only my speculation. Perhaps an email to Viessmann might clear up the situation.

As for the reliability of these motors compared to the Marklin motors - so far I've only had them for a few weeks and they are much more reliable than Marklin AND CHEAPER.


What makes these decoders so high? This is a major mistake by Viessmann as they have been making suitable decoders with the correct height for ages.

Sounds like someone in the purchasing department tried to save a few cents on the component purchasing not realising the implication of component dimensions.

Offline idolezal  
#4 Posted : 14 December 2014 21:32:30(UTC)
idolezal

Netherlands   
Joined: 30/11/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8
Location: ZUID-HOLLAND, DEN HAAG
To DRONGO: I did send email to Viessmann, will place here their answer as soon as I get it. Unfortunately, Im not able to have permanent layout, so current 4558 does not work for me. Im going to send all of them back. Seems 4554 will be other option. Or go to Maerklin motor and decoder is my second option. What did you find not reliable on Maerklin motors? Any issues I should be aware off or worried about?

To kiwiAlan: Im not specialist in electronics devices, there are different components welded to the PCB and whole assembly is just higher than the ballast. I tried all possible orientations and locations, it sjust does not fit. If its intention or not I do not know, but in my opinion slightly different design of PCB would solve the issue.

Kind regards,

Ivo
Offline Robert Davies  
#5 Posted : 15 December 2014 02:10:55(UTC)
Robert Davies

United Kingdom   
Joined: 20/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Worcestershire, UK
I don't think the 4558 has replaced the 4554. The instructions for the 4558 make it clear that it is for C-track only, whereas the 4554 is a universal point motor that will work on just about any track system.

I wonder why they have produced this, as it appears from the literature that the 4554 would fit into a C-track point (although being a K-track person I have never tried it). I also note that the 4558 does not have the feedback facility that the 4554 has.
Robert
Era III - IV
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Offline idolezal  
#6 Posted : 15 December 2014 18:54:08(UTC)
idolezal

Netherlands   
Joined: 30/11/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8
Location: ZUID-HOLLAND, DEN HAAG
What I mean by replacement was a split of 4554 into several products dedicated to different track systems 4557, 4558, 4559, 4560. But maybe Im wrong.
Offline idolezal  
#7 Posted : 15 December 2014 19:11:08(UTC)
idolezal

Netherlands   
Joined: 30/11/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8
Location: ZUID-HOLLAND, DEN HAAG
OK, here is response from Viessmann:

Hello,
the point machine 4558 is not declared as a drive for a H0-turnout with bed of ballast. Procedure may be performed only our drive 4554 which fits exactly in size.
If you want to use the drive 4558, the electronics must be secured with a decoder by drilling a hole under the plate.
Many regards


So just confirming what was written above. Im only not getting why it is designed like it is. I did returned all 11 4558s back today and will decide if I use 4554 or Maerklin motor and decoder.

Kind regards,

Ivo
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Offline Drongo  
#8 Posted : 15 December 2014 22:01:29(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,221
Location: Sydney, NSW
Originally Posted by: idolezal Go to Quoted Post
OK, here is response from Viessmann:

Hello,
the point machine 4558 is not declared as a drive for a H0-turnout with bed of ballast. Procedure may be performed only our drive 4554 which fits exactly in size.
If you want to use the drive 4558, the electronics must be secured with a decoder by drilling a hole under the plate.
Many regards


So just confirming what was written above. Im only not getting why it is designed like it is. I did returned all 11 4558s back today and will decide if I use 4554 or Maerklin motor and decoder.

Kind regards,

Ivo


Hi Ivo,

IMHO I would stay away from the Marklin products and use the Viessmann 4554's.

Regards
Greg
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
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Offline Drongo  
#9 Posted : 18 December 2014 10:11:13(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,221
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Ivo,

I've had another read of the Viessmann reply and it definitely contradicts their advertising. The product description clearly states that the 4558 is for Marklin C track. If the decoder doesn't fit correctly under the C track turnouts then the product is not suitable. Here in Australia we have a government office called the Trade Practises Commission which is setup to regulate companies who falsely or mislead in their advertising. If there's a similar government office in Germany I think Viessmann should be reported to them, OR Viessmann should alter their advertising OR modify the decoder so that it fits correctly under the C track turnouts.

What do you German dwellers think?

Regards
Greg
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
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Offline Mikael Hirsch  
#10 Posted : 05 April 2015 03:38:54(UTC)
Mikael Hirsch

Australia   
Joined: 17/02/2012(UTC)
Posts: 8
Location: Victoria
Hi all

I've just installed the first one of the Viessmann 4558 and am pleased with the result. It is correct that the decoder part is too thick to fit neatly under the track, which surely is a problem with temporary layouts but in a permanent one it should be relatively easy to make an indent under the turnout. In return, this is much more quiet and slower (= more realistic) than the Viessmann 4554, which I think might be phased out. Also the small screws align better with the mounting holes.
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Offline Joseph Meiring  
#11 Posted : 06 April 2015 18:54:02(UTC)
Joseph Meiring

South Africa   
Joined: 27/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,157
Location: Western Cape Cape Town
Originally Posted by: Mikael Hirsch Go to Quoted Post
Hi all

I've just installed the first one of the Viessmann 4558 and am pleased with the result. It is correct that the decoder part is too thick to fit neatly under the track, which surely is a problem with temporary layouts but in a permanent one it should be relatively easy to make an indent under the turnout. In return, this is much more quiet and slower (= more realistic) than the Viessmann 4554, which I think might be phased out. Also the small screws align better with the mounting holes.

Thanks for the info Mikael - I have given up on the Marklin 74491 turnout motors; they are just too unreliable. I have 30 turnouts (C-track) and am frustrated to the nth degree when some of these turnouts don't even last 6 months; which means digging up the ballast, and generally messing up all the nearby scenery.
I saw the you tube clip on the Viessmann 4554, and was pretty impressed at the "slow" movement! So just how "slow" is the 4558!!
My only concern is the not fitting properly under C track ThumbDown - it looked as if the 4554 did fit well?? ......I must look at the prices of 4558/4554....
Many thanks, Joe
Offline Joseph Meiring  
#12 Posted : 06 April 2015 18:59:23(UTC)
Joseph Meiring

South Africa   
Joined: 27/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,157
Location: Western Cape Cape Town
...I am "super gob smacked" that a company like Marklin can dump such rubbish like the 74491 onto us.....a disgrace, when you consider that the hew items 2015 catalog states: [size=6][b]"....we particularly emphasize a high level of quality....and absolute precision" page1, para 3.
Joe

Edited by user 08 April 2015 11:31:07(UTC)  | Reason: text modified

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