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Offline Breitenfurt  
#1 Posted : 03 December 2012 23:13:29(UTC)
Breitenfurt


Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 874
Location: Scotland
Dear Friends,

I have just bought a Noch Tessin baseboard and, although I have loads of spare track, need to buy a few extra items. In order to help me sort out how I am going to assemble it I entered the track items listed in the instruction sheet into AnyRail only to find that it does not work! Failing putting track down on the board I have no idea what I need as both the inner and outer loops did not line up.

I've managed to get the inner circuit to line up to within 3mm by using different track pieces by the bridge but there is a massive error in the outer circuit. We daughter and I) have cross checked but just cannot see where it all goes wrong.

Has anyone here built one of these sets and, if so, can you offer any help here? Matters are not helped by the paperwork all being in German but I might be able to find and English translation on their website.

With best wishes to all,
Chris.
Offline hgk  
#2 Posted : 04 December 2012 07:57:57(UTC)
hgk


Joined: 10/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 455
Location: Pacific Ocean
chris,
Here's the trackplan from Noch's website in German to confirm it's the same as what you have.
http://www.noch.de/pictu...80_Tessin_Tirol_2009.pdf
I put it into google's translator and didn't notice any secrets revealed.
-George
Offline Breitenfurt  
#3 Posted : 04 December 2012 10:56:20(UTC)
Breitenfurt


Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 874
Location: Scotland
Thanks George.

Actually, that plan comes with the board. However, if you draw it out as per the sheet, it doesn't work. For instance at 300% on my screen the two curves on the top left measure 8520: 6cm, 8530: 6.8cm. However, the curves on the top right are 8530: 7.3cm and 8520: 7.6mm. This is clearly absolute rubbish. I've appended the track plan as realised with AnyRail; the gap on the right is NOT 25mm!

All the best,
Chris.
Breitenfurt attached the following image(s):
Tessin-20121204-0910.jpg
Offline hgk  
#4 Posted : 05 December 2012 20:12:51(UTC)
hgk


Joined: 10/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 455
Location: Pacific Ocean
Maybe try and contact them here http://www.noch.de/en/kontakt/email_formular.php to see what they have to say.
(and let us know:)
-george
Offline kbvrod  
#5 Posted : 05 December 2012 20:45:11(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,597
Location: Beverly, MA
Hi all,
Flex track,.....Cool

Dr D
Offline Z-nerd  
#6 Posted : 07 December 2012 17:44:26(UTC)
Z-nerd

Sweden   
Joined: 10/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 95
Location: Linköping, Sweden
Just want to say that I thought the same thing about the Blumenau trackplan. When doing a sketch and try to put together the trackplan with cardboard paper that I had cut out, it did not seem to fit at all. But when I had bought all the track and put it together it was a perfect match.

UserPostedImage
Offline Breitenfurt  
#7 Posted : 07 April 2013 18:55:49(UTC)
Breitenfurt


Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 874
Location: Scotland
Hi Guys.
First, thank you for responding to my query. Secondly, sorry to have ignored you. Fact is that I had no notifications of your responses and only just found them when I did a Google search for 'Tessin'.

For various reasons I have done nothing on Tessin since my last message. However, having gone to bed early, I pulled out my notebook and did some web editing. The outcome is an embryonic webpage for Tessin, and it has two images where I have a) superimposed a strict AnyRail plan above onto the Noch (leaflet) plan and b) superimposed the above plan onto a photo of the baseboard. My modifications have helped but 'not a lot!' So, that's it; that's all I have done. Any further comments would be welcomed and this time I hope that I will get notifications.

All the best,
Chris.
Offline zscalehobo  
#8 Posted : 08 November 2014 00:40:05(UTC)
zscalehobo

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2014(UTC)
Posts: 186
Location: CALIFORNIA, Irvine
Originally Posted by: Breitenfurt Go to Quoted Post
Thanks George.

Actually, that plan comes with the board. However, if you draw it out as per the sheet, it doesn't work. For instance at 300% on my screen the two curves on the top left measure 8520: 6cm, 8530: 6.8cm. However, the curves on the top right are 8530: 7.3cm and 8520: 7.6mm. This is clearly absolute rubbish. I've appended the track plan as realised with AnyRail; the gap on the right is NOT 25mm!

All the best,
Chris.


Hello Chris:

Allow me to reply on behalf of Noch, as I know their answer to this query. A potential customer of mine alerted me to this thread and I see no solution to the issue. Sorry I didn't see this sooner.

Basically, if it doesn't work in AnyRails it doesn't mean you can't build it anyway.

There is a bit of tolerance allowed in how you set any type of tracks (Rokuhan or Marklin) onto Noch's layouts. So, a bit of handling one way or the other should solve your problem.

One issue I see is that the 8592's (100-120mm straight section) may not be able to be modeled perfectly. There is a bit of variation in how the rails fall when using those sections to fine tune track locations. A bit of bending of Marklin track is not going to destroy the track nor cause derailments.

I also like the other user above suggesting flex track, but that would be a last resort if you are too scared to "force" track into proper location.

Thanks for bringing attention to this issue and please let me know if you encounter any issues when placing the track. Did this discrepancy cause you to scrap the entire project? I hope not. Give it a try ... you'll love it!

Thanks,
Frank Daniels
Owner - z.scale.hobo, A Noch "Top Dealer"
Irvine, California, USA
www.zscalehobo.com

Edited by user 10 November 2014 18:35:20(UTC)  | Reason: 8592 is variable length track; 8594 is a flex track

Frank Daniels
Owner - z.scale.hobo
A Noch "Top Dealer"
Marklin Dealer and Z Locomotive Service
Irvine, California, USA
www.zscalehobo.com
Offline Carim  
#9 Posted : 10 November 2014 11:02:36(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 652
Location: London
Hi Chris,

I had a similar type of problem, but with the track plans included with a Marklin starter set and track packs. When I made additional drawings of the plans, the geometry of the Marklin plans did not make sense. Yet when I came to actually physically build the plan, all the track managed to line up. I guess the sectional track has a certain tolerance that Marklin has taken into account but other software does not (I used Xtrack).

All the best,
C.
Offline zscalehobo  
#10 Posted : 16 November 2014 03:47:02(UTC)
zscalehobo

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2014(UTC)
Posts: 186
Location: CALIFORNIA, Irvine
OK, so I tested the theory and sure enough, Noch is right. Even though things aren't perfect, Marklin track has tolerance. It can be done.

See my layout I have in stock with the outer loop exactly as Noch indicates. There is a bit of error in how I have it placed, but once I start fastening with track nails, everything will be held in the proper place. The red arrows indicate the area where I would push the track to get it to fit better, as it appears to be shifting off the layout at the right side. But, there is plenty of play to move where the arrows are in the pic thus it works.

Marklin Track on Noch Tessin 87080 Outer Loop as Per Plan (link to pic at zscalehobo.com)
Frank Daniels
Owner - z.scale.hobo
A Noch "Top Dealer"
Marklin Dealer and Z Locomotive Service
Irvine, California, USA
www.zscalehobo.com
Offline Breitenfurt  
#11 Posted : 23 November 2014 00:55:56(UTC)
Breitenfurt


Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 874
Location: Scotland
First, thank you Frank. I saw your first message after a search for Tessin!) not long after you posted it and intended to respond. However, I run an orchestra as well as being a member of it and various problems with it and going on a course, and practising sort of pushed Tessin into the pending tray. Also, thank you Carim and, again, Frank for your followups.

A couple of points. The first is that I will not use Märklin's extending track after I had problems with one on my Breitenfurt Ost layout during an exhibition. It started derailing trains however slowly they passed over it. Only the locos coped.

Second, I have found AnyRail to be an extremely accurate application. The company added Märklin Z track at my request, and I used it to design the Breitenfurt Ost track plan ( http://trains.manvell.or...ges/Trackplan-latest.jpg ) with no errors, tho' occasional track cutting was required to accomodate some of my quirky geometry. But that is reflected in the track plan. Turning to Tessin, using AnyRail I created a plan sticking rigidly (I hope) to Noch's specification and superimposed on Noch's diagram to get the first image on my webpage http://trains.manvell.or...z-scale/Tessin/index.htm . The thought of straining the track to make it fit is a bit scary; I prefer no straining if at all possible (and AnyRail won't allow it).

The second image shows my first attempt at making the track fit. There are still problems, but it is much nearer to the board and the next stage would be to try to see if it can be made to fit with a little tweaking. I suspect that the best solution will be to use flexible track and adjust it to lie centrally in the track bed.

I haven't given up on Tessin. I need a new layout to exhibit and plan for it to be child operated. Breitenfurt has outlived the local expo circuit and those further away don't seem to be interested.

Finally, here is an interesting variation on a Noch Tessin board.Tessin board with alternative trackplan, Zedex 2014. (c) 2014, C.Manvell.
thanks 5 users liked this useful post by Breitenfurt
Offline zscalehobo  
#12 Posted : 10 April 2015 04:05:51(UTC)
zscalehobo

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2014(UTC)
Posts: 186
Location: CALIFORNIA, Irvine
Originally Posted by: Breitenfurt Go to Quoted Post
A couple of points. The first is that I will not use Märklin's extending track after I had problems with one on my Breitenfurt Ost layout during an exhibition. It started derailing trains however slowly they passed over it. Only the locos coped.

Second ... The thought of straining the track to make it fit is a bit scary; I prefer no straining if at all possible (and AnyRail won't allow it).


Breitenfurt:

If you will not use Marklin's extension track (8592, 100-120mm variable length straight section) then you are not following the plan and the layout will not work. This should be warning sign number one to indicate that the issue as initially reported is not a flaw of Noch. You need to follow the plan. 8592's are important to making this work.

If you will not bend track ever so slightly, then it will also not work.

You can see my picture in a post upthread and several YouTube videos I have posted in the factory-specified track arrangement functions flawlessly. This is a valid track plan even though AnyRail shows it isn't perfect. Marklin track can bend ever so slightly, folks.

I am hoping that other people viewing this thread will look further at the dozens of layouts that are in operation and working without issue. This layout is fantastic. I am shipping FINISHED Tessin layouts in this configuration every month without any complaints from customers.
Frank Daniels
Owner - z.scale.hobo
A Noch "Top Dealer"
Marklin Dealer and Z Locomotive Service
Irvine, California, USA
www.zscalehobo.com
Offline Breitenfurt  
#13 Posted : 10 April 2015 13:44:27(UTC)
Breitenfurt


Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 874
Location: Scotland
Thanks for your comments, zscalehobo.
I haven't gone any further with Tessin and need to purchase some track to be able to get it up and running. In the meantime, I am concentrating on my music though at least I have handed over running the orchestra to a new committee.

Obviously, many people have got the layout up and running using Noch's instructions so I will try it but will leave it open as to whether I tweak it a bit. I will not, however, use the expanding tracks, preferring to cut down a longer length of track to the appropriate length. The expanding track on track 1 of Breitenfurt Ost worked fine for about four years and the, half way through an exhibition, for no apparent reason, it started derailing trains (passenger and freight). It was as if the gauge had narrowed by 0.25 to 0.5 mm. The result was to leave me with just one clockwise loop and no access from the mainline to the branch (not that the latter was really a problem). Since replacing it with a cut length of track I have had no further problems.

Hopefully, I will return to Tessin as soon as I can get a case built for it.

So, once again, thanks to all who have responded to my complaint about this layout.
Best wishes to all,
Chris.
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