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Offline PMPeter  
#1 Posted : 07 November 2014 06:00:19(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
As suggested in the Viessmann Decoder thread I am attaching a sketch of my current connection and my understanding of a "common ground". I can already hear the shudders of me using a blue transformer for the catenary (no sliders on the locos), but that is only temporary until I have the associated locos converted to digital and then the 6021 will take over or the catenary will no longer be live.

Other than that is the concept regarding my common ground bus correct?

Peter

Power
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 07 November 2014 07:33:15(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Peter,

No problem with your concept: it's important to keep the 60065 insulated from the common ground because it feeds a "modern" controller (CS2 here) which is connected to the common ground.

No problem having a common ground with 6021 and its transformer.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline PMPeter  
#3 Posted : 07 November 2014 16:56:00(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
Thanks Tom.

As I said in the other thread I never even considered connecting the 60065 output side to the ground bus. I'm not even sure how you could do that without modifying the supplied cable. It was just incorrect choice of my wording that caused the confusion and that teaches me not to respond to a thread during the work day.

I was wondering about joining the 2 Browns on the 6001, but it seems to already be an internal connection. So if I understand correctly from your response the Brown output of the 6021 can also be connected to the Common Ground Bus.

Cheers
Peter
Offline clapcott  
#4 Posted : 07 November 2014 21:13:22(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post

I was wondering about joining the 2 Browns on the 6001, but it seems to already be an internal connection. So if I understand correctly from your response the Brown output of the 6021 can also be connected to the Common Ground Bus.

Cheers
Peter


Peter,

The "Intent" of your schematic is unclear because you do not represent the internal links.
I believe your intent is to represent a common from the Controllers to the Track rail (not controller through transformer to rail)

By showing the connection to the 6001 you are implying a connection through to the 6021 but this implication would be lost on some.
I would suggest that the link from the Common Bus to the 6001 be removed and be replaced with a link from the 6021 Brown to the common ground.

By all means draw a dotted internal link within the 6021 between the 2 Browns.

I would further suggest you clarify the "load" and electrical return path for your lighting circuit.
IF you are wishing to represent light that use the track as return (M-Track turnout lanterns and buffer lights) then yes another common link is required

Peter
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Offline PMPeter  
#5 Posted : 07 November 2014 22:25:42(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
Peter,

The intent is that I have 4 buses running around my layout, 3 of which are power sources and one of which is a common ground. All the red track leads come from the red Track Power Bus, all the yellow lighting leads come from the green Lighting bus, all the catenary feeder masts connect to the Catenary Power bus, and all the brown wire returns for everything go back to the Ground bus. Yes I can show the brown from the 6021 going to the Ground bus as well, but it is currently not connected to anything other than the 6001.

The whole discussion stemmed from the other thread regarding what brown wires can be connected together without causing damage to the CS2.

Peter
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#6 Posted : 07 November 2014 22:27:53(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
The only other comment that I would make in regards to using the older blue transformers, is that you make sure you get the brown and yellow in phase with the rest of the system. With the US style of 2 pin mains plugs which can be plugged into the mains either way around, this means that the yellow and brown connections could be reversed in polarity, and you end up with 20v AC feeding into the brown connection. Any other blue transformer in the system could end up with mains voltage on its unplugged mains plug due to 'back transformering'. This is the reason why Marklin recommend you use the later white/grey transformers as they have inbuilt protection against 'back transformering'.

I've attached some pages from the Eckert's Electrical Wiring for Marklin book, which shows how to get blue transformers in phase / correct polarity. The book specifically refers to analog running, but would also apply if you were using blue transformers to power accessories on an otherwise digital layout.

This procedure may not be so applicable in countries with 230/240v AC mains, as the mains plugs in those countries can only be plugged into the mains one way. However, it has been commented on the forum before that mistakes can be made at the factory in the wiring when the transformer is manufactured that it doesn't hurt to check everything to make sure!

The full version of the Eckert book can be found at http://lctm.atarrabi.org...Marklinwiringbooklet.pdf (I think they may have got it off me in the first place!)
Bigdaddynz attached the following image(s):
Eckert Marklin wiringbooklet_Page_12.jpg
Eckert Marklin wiringbooklet_Page_13.jpg
Eckert Marklin wiringbooklet_Page_14.jpg
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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 07 November 2014 22:47:16(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
The only other comment that I would make in regards to using the older blue transformers, is that you make sure you get the brown and yellow in phase with the rest of the system.
You only have to pay attention to polarity if you use two or more transformers to drive analogue trains and have trains passing from one transformer to another.
You'll get big sparks on the transition when polarity does not match.
Same for blue transformers, grey transformers, gray-and-black transformers, ...
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline PMPeter  
#8 Posted : 07 November 2014 23:01:15(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
Understood and I am only using one blue transformer until I have my electric engines converted to digital. Then it disappears from my layout.

Peter
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