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Offline Laxman  
#1 Posted : 31 October 2014 03:12:46(UTC)
Laxman

United States   
Joined: 18/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 240
Location: South Carolina
Hello All,

Has anyone else had problems with the reliability and operation of the c track double slip switch 24624?

I am not referring to the problems that plague the 74491 motors which we all know about ( although I am still not sure how to short them Blink ).

The problems I have is that they sometimes do not change all the way at all 4 points--so 3 of the 4 frogs are pointing straight and one frog is curved. Or the switch is set for straight and half the train goes over it and for some reason the frog then goes to the middle and the rear half of the train branches off causing a crash.

I have place 3 of them in a very high traffic area of the layout and will likely change them out as I am having problems with all 3.

I am using a CS2 coupled with computer software, but even when I take them out and check them with good ole analog they still sometimes do not set all the way.

Any tips, suggestions, advice is very welcome.

Thanks

Laxman
Offline RayF  
#2 Posted : 31 October 2014 09:15:50(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Same happens to me. I add a little lubrication to the moving parts and it helps.

Teflon spray seems to work best.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline foumaro  
#3 Posted : 31 October 2014 20:14:54(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,420
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
I am using a soft brush to remove dust and the "universal degreaser" for the points the brush cannot access.
Offline foumaro  
#4 Posted : 31 October 2014 20:16:42(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,420
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Same happens to me. I add a little lubrication to the moving parts and it helps.

Teflon spray seems to work best.


Just my opinion but i think lubrication is not a good idea for this kind of problem.
Offline RayF  
#5 Posted : 31 October 2014 20:43:25(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Whatever works for you.

On my double slip it is definitely a case of too much friction in the mechanism. The solenoid is not strong enough to pull all four blades over firmly even when it was brand new and straight out of the box. A little bit of lubricant helps to free the mechanism.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Cyborg  
#6 Posted : 31 October 2014 20:46:13(UTC)
Cyborg

Australia   
Joined: 11/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 107
Location: Maroubra
Hi all,

I have a few of these and they generally work well (apart from the turnout motors which have been replaced). I found the problem is related to when I screw them down and the surface on which they are on is not totally flat and they twist a little causing the frogs not to move completely to their end position.,,,,my two cents worth anyway.

regards

Paul
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Offline Laxman  
#7 Posted : 01 November 2014 03:30:54(UTC)
Laxman

United States   
Joined: 18/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 240
Location: South Carolina
Ray, Paul, and Foumaro,

Thanks for the suggestions. They are all relatively new (less than 3 mos) so I doubt they are particularly dirty.

I don't have them screwed down but have mounted them on the black track tack stuff I use to stick the c track to the foam, but am careful about no stickiness under the turnouts to interfere.

I sense that the problems are related to Ray's suggestion that there might be too much friction for the solenoid. Also sometimes it will just buzz/hum and have a very weak throw.

The one thing that gets me is that sometimes, as I stated before, they seem all set, straight for example and half the train goes over ok and then the frog must slip and the back half of the train branches out. It is almost like the frogs are not 'locked in place" and are able to drift into the middle. ( Almost like a regular turnout would do with a weak spring (although M uses plastic now) after running a train against the turnout frogs. (maybe the solenoid only gives a 75% throw??)

I will fiddle with them and let you know. I am leaning towards removing them as every train leaving or entering my main central station has to pass through them (either straight or branched)

Laxman
Offline Drongo  
#8 Posted : 01 November 2014 04:45:40(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,221
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Laxman,

I have a similar problem with the turnout motors. I'm in the process of testing out the Viessmann 4554 unit and also the Viessmann 4558. The 4558 is a dedicated replacement for Marklin C track and is cheaper than the 4554. It's too soon for me to give a verdict, but so far the 4554 looks superior to the 74491. I will follow up at a later date after more testing. Also, I'm going away for 2 weeks - I'm visiting the country where "everything" is manufactured.

Regards
Greg
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
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Offline witzlerh  
#9 Posted : 01 November 2014 15:02:04(UTC)
witzlerh

Canada   
Joined: 25/09/2010(UTC)
Posts: 417
Location: Sherwood Park, AB, Canada
My dad has a double switch too. There is a lot of mechanism to move. All the above suggestions are good. The Teflon spray may be the most effective but use oil very sparingly or else you will get gummed up later.

If you run the switch power from the track, then I think that maybe you maybe starting to overload your booster/transformer. You can either view the current consumption on your CS2. If it is at 70% then it is time to get another transformer/booster or separating the switch power.

Those switches draw a lot of power for a short time and it you are near the limit of the transformer, there may be enough drop in voltage to not throw the switch.

Another way to tell is by taking all or almost all the loks off and see if the situation improves.
Harald
CS2 DB & Canadian Era 3-6
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Offline Laxman  
#10 Posted : 01 November 2014 19:35:32(UTC)
Laxman

United States   
Joined: 18/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 240
Location: South Carolina
Gregg

Thanks I am looking forward to see how well the 4558 functions. Right now it seems to be on back order in the US.

Harald

I may try the teflon spray and see if makes a difference. I doubt it is a power issue as I utilize a dedicated transformer and booster for the switches alone. The trains all have their own transformers and boosters.

I have had one double slip c track switch on my small layout at home and never had a problem. Maybe a bad batch--but all four of them??

Thanks

Laxman

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Offline kiwiAlan  
#11 Posted : 01 November 2014 21:13:55(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Laxman Go to Quoted Post
Gregg

Thanks I am looking forward to see how well the 4558 functions. Right now it seems to be on back order in the US.

Harald

I may try the teflon spray and see if makes a difference. I doubt it is a power issue as I utilize a dedicated transformer and booster for the switches alone. The trains all have their own transformers and boosters.

I have had one double slip c track switch on my small layout at home and never had a problem. Maybe a bad batch--but all four of them??

Thanks

Laxman



I wouldn't be surprised to find it is a batch problem, if you bought them all at the same time. It would only need something to disrupt the flow of heating water in the plastic mold in the factory for the mold to not heat properly or cool unevenly to produce a plastic piece that is ever so slightly deformed and hence rubs somewhere it shouldn't, or has too much flexibility where it shouldn't, and hence reduces the throw in the point.

Before putting the Teflon grease in make sure you have cleaned any oil out of the mechanism. Oil and plastic together are anathema and will stick the parts together rather than let them slide. You must use a lubricant designed for plastic if going down this route.

Offline rbw993  
#12 Posted : 03 November 2014 16:11:12(UTC)
rbw993

United States   
Joined: 19/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 954
Another possibility for lubrication is powdered graphite. Not the kind mixed with a binder, just the powder. Conducts electricity a bit also. Just don't use it oil or it will gum up. I have used it extensively in LGB switch motors and on point blades and it works well. Doesn't last a long time outside but doesn't collect dust and grit like oil would.

Regards,
Roger
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Offline Laxman  
#13 Posted : 03 November 2014 17:09:01(UTC)
Laxman

United States   
Joined: 18/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 240
Location: South Carolina
Alan

That is a good thought. I did purchase all four at the same time from the same dealer so I am sure they are all from the same batch.

Roger

I am not familiar with powdered graphite. How does it come (as a powder an aerosol)? How do you apply it? What else can it be used for? Where do you get it?

Thanks

Laxman

Offline rbw993  
#14 Posted : 03 November 2014 17:51:45(UTC)
rbw993

United States   
Joined: 19/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 954
Laxman,
I have always gotten it at a hardware store. Comes in a small cylindrical tube. It is applied by squeezing the tube lightly to "puff" the graphite out of a nozzle at one end. A hard squeeze results in a mess! It is often used in locks where oil would gum up the keys.
Roger
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