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Offline baggio  
#1 Posted : 01 November 2014 01:12:29(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Let us pretend that any one of us is on the board of directors at Marklin and that we are now deciding the way Marklin will do business for the next five years.

What should Marklin do?

Each one of us should come up with up to SIX suggestions, no more.

Here is my two cents' worth:

1. Lower the prices on many of their locos and rolling stock, so as not to gouge the customers;

2. Make a hobby line for adults that do not need a super-detailed locos and rolling stock at MUCH lower prices;

3. Entice young people with starter sets that have sound, speed and colours, even if the motif does not exist (as done with the Marklin My World loco) Look at the Kato N line for example;

4. Create an "expert" line for those who require locos and rolling stock that are true replicas of the original, realizing that THIS is a dying breed (in reality);

5. Make track that can be used BOTH for AC and DC operation, so that one can have both sets run on the same layout even if not at the same time. I understand this has been done by some senior and very capable Marklin lovers. In this respect, they should abandon rolling stock that does not run on a DC set;

6. Be more cosmopolitan in the locos and rolling stock they make so as not to restrict themselves too much to German models, including station announcements in the language of that country, as well as English, as is done now on Italian trains.

What do YOU think? Am I on to something or just out to lunch? BigGrin

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Offline Hackcell  
#2 Posted : 01 November 2014 02:22:43(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
Quote:


1. Lower the prices on many of their locos and rolling stock, so as not to gouge the customers;

2. Make a hobby line for adults that do not need a super-detailed locos and rolling stock at MUCH lower prices;

3. Entice young people with starter sets that have sound, speed and colours, even if the motif does not exist (as done with the Marklin My World loco) Look at the Kato N line for example;

4. Create an "expert" line for those who require locos and rolling stock that are true replicas of the original, realizing that THIS is a dying breed (in reality);

5. Make track that can be used BOTH for AC and DC operation, so that one can have both sets run on the same layout even if not at the same time. I understand this has been done by some senior and very capable Marklin lovers. In this respect, they should abandon rolling stock that does not run on a DC set;

6. Be more cosmopolitan in the locos and rolling stock they make so as not to restrict themselves too much to German models, including station announcements in the language of that country, as well as English, as is done now on Italian trains.




1 - not gonna happen. They are moving back production to Europe.
2 - Nah.
3 - Yeah.
4 - 1000000% agreed. For example the old 4051/4052/4053 cars should be released in real H0 scale, and not 1:100 scale.
5 - I have no opinion on this one
6 - Agreed.

Also, I would say:

7 - They need to release more US-based locomotives (modern ones) to catch more of the US market.
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
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Offline leahcim  
#3 Posted : 01 November 2014 06:42:35(UTC)
leahcim

Australia   
Joined: 12/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 40
Location: QUEENSLAND, BRISBANE
1 Lower the prices - Cutting margins leads to bad business decisions based on lower revenue. From a buyer's perspective I couldn't agree more but you did ask what I would do if I was a board member so I would not cut prices.

2. Make a hobby line - It's been done and in the current catalog there is still a hobby line called marklin my world. Again lower prices, no same reason as above.

3. Entice young people. Yes, for sure, I am only into marklin because of my fathers passion in the past for it and the time he shared with us as children. So you have to start with the dads and focus on the family playing together. If the mums and dads don't find it interesting then they will continue to buy them ipods and games.

4. They already have an expert line. You have to be an expert to solve the problems with some of the crappy models they make.

5. Definately on board with you there. They talked about this years ago about ac/dc capability with all marklin and still haven't done it. Thats the trouble when you buy out dc competitors I guess. You'd kill the business for Trix if you did that.

6. Be more cosmopolitan. I think you have to base which models you make on the market share per country and I'm pretty sure they do this already.

1. My strategy would be sell Trix off and do go ac/dc with marklin but of course don't announce this until you've sold Trix.

2. I know not many customers would agree with me that they should reduce the number of new models each year but it would free some staff for extra quality control and stop losing money on warranties and good customers who come to hate you. Along the same lines don't make so many one time models, get rid of them from the catalogue and only do them for insiders.

3. Only use brushless motors or don't outsource motors, make in house using money from sale of trix to establish a team and plant to do it. Then you don't get in a situation where a motor you've used is hard to obtain.

4. Get out of the electronics business, kiss and make up with ESU.

5. Focus on what your good at. Marklin are undoubtably the masters in die casting. Offer to do die casting for other firms.
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Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 01 November 2014 09:05:32(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Let us pretend that any one of us is on the board of directors at Marklin and that we are now deciding the way Marklin will do business for the next five years.

What should Marklin do?
It's easy to suggest "lowering prices", but with 10 million € profit at 100 million € sales there isn't much room for price reductions. Florian Sieber is trying to reduce production costs to increase profits - this is part of the problem as quality went down.

After the insolvency, a lot good advice was given on the forum: sell Trix, sell LGB, sell Z gauge, sell 1 gauge, sell this, sell that. More models from this railway, more models from that railway, stop one-time series, keep everything in the catalogue for at least five years, ...

It's impossible to give them good advice without insight into their books and their calculation.

I know why they lost the lion's share of my MRR budget and I can say what they could do to win my budget back.


1. Better quality: good motors, good decoders, good sound projects, good printing and painting, good assembly, better training for the people on the assembly lines, better checks after assembly. Why do all steamers (small and big) share the same sound of shovelling coal? Why do all locos share the same file with shunting announcements ("OK, go ahead")?
Prototypical pantographs have the same price as incorrect pantographs (why make a DB 189 with livery for the Netherlands and ship it with pantographs for Switzerland (incorrect) instead of DC pantographs for the Netherlands?).

2. More transparency: Why not put something like "Made in EU. Assembled in Hungary from metal parts made in Germany. Engineered in Germany." on the box?
This may not work well - I presume many people still believe that Märklin is "Made in Germany" and they will be shocked to see "Hungary" on the box and may stop buying.

3. Reduce one-time series, try to keep items in the catalogue for 5 years (discontinue them earlier if they don't pay). Change road numbers every year if possible - people might buy three second class coaches if numbers are different, some will buy two locos if numbers differ.

4. Think in trains: offer suitable coaches/cars for every loco, offer suitable locos for cars/coaches.

5. Be quick when announcing new moulds of new prototypes.

6. Get it right the first time: "Märklinisms" damage the reputation of a mould. They messed up the wind shield wipers of the DB 189, the running axle of the E 17, the steering of the DB 23, the tractive effort of the DB 50.40 - and corrected it with later variations. Would have been cheaper to get it right the first time.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Mark_1602  
#5 Posted : 01 November 2014 09:27:48(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Hi everybody,

Here are my suggestions:

1) Improve quality control, especially at the factory in Hungary, where poor handling really seems to be a problem. The fact that brand new Märklin products are often slightly damaged has been reported in all MRR forums and has already had a negative impact on sales figures. Märklin should set up a task force to get quality back to what it used to be in the past.

2) Stop turning Märklin into a DC brand! The majority of customers probably like Märklin because it is different from the DC manufacturers. Soon every Märklin model will have a DC motor, and their engines increasingly look like their competitors' products. As a result, some Märklin customers now buy AC versions of Piko locomotives, which are much cheaper. The loyalty of Märklin customers which the company could always rely on in the past is being eroded.

3) Märklin is doing too much, and is trying to be all things to all people! They should make fewer new products every year or sell off one of their brands. I know they need so many new items every year to stop sales from falling even further, so the more realistic idea might be to sell off LGB to Piko. Expensive LGB products face tough competition from Piko garden trains, so LGB's future is uncertain anyway. Trix is difficult to sell off because there's nothing specific left except for the N-scale. Trix H0 products are basically DC versions of Märklin engines (or cars). The proceeds of the LGB sale could be used to develop new Märklin motors. The Märklin company should focus on M-Ä-R-K-L-I-N H0 trains!!

4) In addition to MyWorld, Start Up, and Märklin H0 Professional, they should have a fourth product line that would focus on less detailed tin plate models and replicas. They have been making such products for some time, and they usually sell quite well, especially in Germany. Märklin is the only MRR manufacturer that can make money by selling 'old' products, so they should take advantage of this to stay profitable. The Start Up range should be expanded, so it will also be interesting to adult fans who want Märklin products at lower prices and are willing to make some compromises. There's still a market for a 'Hobby' range.

5) Märklin should stop using cheap motors and decoders because most of their customers would be happier with ESU decoders and high-quality five-pole motors. Ideally, a Märklin locomotive should have a Märklin motor. It's a fact that sales of Märklin H0 are down at the moment, so the three-pole motors are bad for Märklin's future.

6) All Märklin models that cause problems should be redesigned before the next version is released, and more care should be taken to avoid design flaws in future! That would decrease the number of dissatisfied customers who stop buying and engage in Märklin-bashing in MRR forums, thereby damaging the company's image.

Just one final word: I've been a loyal Märklin fan for forty years and want to go on supporting that company, but I can't turn a blind eye to those issues that really need to be addressed.

Best regards, Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
Offline Alsterstreek  
#6 Posted : 01 November 2014 13:38:27(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,666
Location: Hybrid Home
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

3. Reduce one-time series, try to keep items in the catalogue for 5 years (discontinue them earlier if they don't pay). Change road numbers every year if possible - people might buy three second class coaches if numbers are different, some will buy two locos if numbers differ.


Exactly my main concern:

There is a permanent track sortiment. However, the situation looks different for locos and rolling stock. I think there should be a core sortiment of locos and rolling stock, which is always available, e.g. standard coaches. This "once-in-a-lifetime limited-supply" marketing turns me off (and maybe others, too). In this context, there should always be cars matching locos and vice versa.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#7 Posted : 01 November 2014 14:06:58(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
I'll reply to leahcim's post as I think it will cover the points I want to make best.

Originally Posted by: leahcim Go to Quoted Post
1 Lower the prices - Cutting margins leads to bad business decisions based on lower revenue. From a buyer's perspective I couldn't agree more but you did ask what I would do if I was a board member so I would not cut prices.


Cutting margins is what leads to using "cheap three pole motors". Margins are well established using accounting principles which calculate the margin required on an item just to stay in business. People who go into the 'margin cutting' loop have a tendency to go out of business because they go broke.

Originally Posted by: leahcim Go to Quoted Post


2. Make a hobby line - It's been done and in the current catalog there is still a hobby line called marklin my world. Again lower prices, no same reason as above.


Agreed, also there is still the line that was for a long time labelled 'Hobby' and consists of almost all items that use the old style Relex couplers. Typical of these are the 4415 based boxcars/refrigerator vans and 4400 series coaches. I haven't really been watching how the 'My World' labelling has been applied to these, beyond noticing that they get referred to in the 'My World' catalogue as part of the layout expansion possibilities.

Originally Posted by: leahcim Go to Quoted Post

3. Entice young people. Yes, for sure, I am only into marklin because of my fathers passion in the past for it and the time he shared with us as children. So you have to start with the dads and focus on the family playing together. If the mums and dads don't find it interesting then they will continue to buy them ipods and games.


Agreed, and I think the 'My World' range with magnetic coupling and IR controller goes a long way towards this. When these items were first introduced I could see the possibilities of Oma and Opa giving grandchild one of these start sets, and junior waving the IR control around while playing and saying 'Look Opa' ...

Originally Posted by: leahcim Go to Quoted Post

4. They already have an expert line. You have to be an expert to solve the problems with some of the crappy models they make.


I don't think that is quite what was meant ... Laugh but rather something more like the Trix Fine Art range ... which has now crept into Z guage with the release of the Br05 003 ... Cool at €1000 for a Z gauge loco Crying The Trix Fine Art items are also hand crafted brass models at high prices.

Originally Posted by: leahcim Go to Quoted Post

5. Definately on board with you there. They talked about this years ago about ac/dc capability with all marklin and still haven't done it. Thats the trouble when you buy out dc competitors I guess. You'd kill the business for Trix if you did that.


Doing a DC range of Marklin is stupid. They used to have it, then it morphed in Hamo to make it distinguishable. Then they bought Trix because Trix was ailing and Marklin had some significant co-operation models with Trix that they didn't want to lose so they bought them out and made them the DC line. It makes sense to continue with that as Trix does have a significant 2-rail following, and it helps to amortise costs of developing a new model across both brands - this comes back to point 1, by amortising development costs across both lines the overhead costs of development in the sale price of a model are kept down.

Originally Posted by: leahcim Go to Quoted Post


6. Be more cosmopolitan. I think you have to base which models you make on the market share per country and I'm pretty sure they do this already.


I was told a good few years ago by a source close to Marklin that the sales volumes went something like this: -
Of the total production, 75% is sold within Germany.
Of the remaining 25%, 75% (i.e. 18.75% of total production) is sold in Switzerland.
That leaves 6.25% of total production for the rest of the world - including the rest of Europe.

Hence Marklin will look at the sales figures for where their merchandise is being sold and produce models to suit. There will be some cross country production of models, partly because German originated locos and rolling stock have moved to other European countries (e.g. steam locos left behind after WW2) and UIC standardisation of rolling stock making it easy to produce a model for another country by a different paint job or different colour plastic into a mold. Then having got the rolling stock and created a small market it becomes practical to produce an item like a Nohab diesel which is common across a number of countries requiring only a different paint scheme and minimal detailing changes to produce a model that can be amortised over large production runs.

Now I doubt that those marketing percentage figures are that much different today, although they will be skewed because a lot of us buy across the internet from shops in Germany because we cannot get decent service and prices from local shops.

Originally Posted by: leahcim Go to Quoted Post


1. My strategy would be sell Trix off and do go ac/dc with marklin but of course don't announce this until you've sold Trix.


See my answer to point 1 above.

Originally Posted by: leahcim Go to Quoted Post

2. I know not many customers would agree with me that they should reduce the number of new models each year but it would free some staff for extra quality control and stop losing money on warranties and good customers who come to hate you. Along the same lines don't make so many one time models, get rid of them from the catalogue and only do them for insiders.


I think they have effectively done that with the Br05 003. I can't see how they can increase the production numbers of this model unless they produce a start set with it in (probably one of the Mega Start Sets) or a triple loco set with all three version of the Br05 in a display case to get better amortisation of the tooling. I guess they have plans for it to make it viable, but how would you do this with the Z gauge version?

Originally Posted by: leahcim Go to Quoted Post

3. Only use brushless motors or don't outsource motors, make in house using money from sale of trix to establish a team and plant to do it. Then you don't get in a situation where a motor you've used is hard to obtain.


So you want them to make only C-Sine motors. For reasons I am not privy to the C-Sine has been seriously put down by the MRR community in Germany AIUI. Also by doing this you make yourself very dependant on a single sourced item, whereas by using a standard form DC motor you can buy from multiple sources then you are safeguarding your production schedules. Because an item is multiple sourced there is also competition that helps hold price increases.

Originally Posted by: leahcim Go to Quoted Post

4. Get out of the electronics business, kiss and make up with ESU.


That isn't going to happen. ESU cooked their own goose with Marklin because they couldn't deliver what Marklin was wanting. I know that the boosters to go with the CS1 were a load of useless electronics. They didn't perform as they were supposed to. Although they were announced in the catalogue they were very quickly withdrawn.

There were various other problems relating to getting the CS1 software to a level where it was sufficiently bug free to be able to use without having to periodically reboot it. I had it direct from Dieter Lorenz of Marklin that they NEVER EVER used to CS1 with the demonstration layout that they take to all the exhibitions because of software problems in it, but within a year of introducing the CS2 they were using that with the layout successfully. I think that ESU were just spreading their effort too thin across too many products by developing for Marklin as well as their own product line. It didn't matter that much of the inner hardware for both controllers and decoders was common, there was enough differences in the way each product had its features defined to make them very different products to develop.

If ESU had not attempted to develop their own product line alongside Marklins product things might have been very different. But I believe they were just too undercapitalised to develop both product lines simultaneously. Also my understanding was that this was Marklins second attempt to work with ESU - but the first had also collapsed in some acrimony. I don't know the details, maybe ESU were building Marklins decoders and bits for them and couldn't deliver the required quantities, but that is only speculation. I am just aware that Marklin gave them a second chance with the 'Marklin digital' line and that also collapsed in acrimony.

Originally Posted by: leahcim Go to Quoted Post


5. Focus on what your good at. Marklin are undoubtably the masters in die casting. Offer to do die casting for other firms.



They have enough problems getting their own product out on time without splitting their effort. Look at how long it took them to produce the 48058 wagon. It was on display as a prototype at the IMA Messe in September 2011, and didn't arrive in the shops until something like a year later - and that was just a paint variation on a wagon they already manufactured Crying The production team MUST have known that the wagon was planned and when the prototype would be on display, and I was certainly expecting to buy the wagon at the IMA, not have to order it and wait a year.

Now to be a tiny bit fair on them, they were going through a bunch of problems at that stage but still, what a missed opportunity to 'sell big volume' to a captive market that was on the spot looking at the prototype. By the time it was in the shops I am sure there were many whose loose Euros rattling in their pockets were already spent on something else.

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Offline leahcim  
#8 Posted : 01 November 2014 15:57:40(UTC)
leahcim

Australia   
Joined: 12/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 40
Location: QUEENSLAND, BRISBANE
Hi Alan,

I don't know how profitable trix is against marklin but while you might save development costs which are a one off you have continuous running costs of having separate assembly lines for the two products.
When I said ac/dc I meant every loco can run on either 2 rail or three rail so you only need one assembly line and also was in agreement with baggio about track that could run either system.

Quote:
So you want them to make only C-Sine motors


Not necesarily, I haven't heard of the complaints with c-sine motors. I just believe that brushless motors are more reliable and I did say "or" make motors in house. I think Mark said it right when he said "marklin locos should have marklin motors.

I'm not sure how the factory operates but I shouldn't think you could blame the guys in the die casting department for delays in painting that wagon. The best German companies focus on doing one thing and doing that well. They have too many irons in the fire.


respectfully
michael
Offline RayF  
#9 Posted : 01 November 2014 16:05:55(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I agree with some of the above, and disagree strongly with some other points.

I'm not going to repeat the same arguments. Marklin don't need us to see what makes sense and what doesn't. I'm sure they've realised where they've gone wrong in the past, and are trying their best to put things right.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline rmsailor  
#10 Posted : 01 November 2014 18:27:09(UTC)
rmsailor

Scotland   
Joined: 20/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 569
Location: Kirkcaldy, Fife
Making universal AC/DC locomotives was a suggestion I made a couple of years back as they were being proposed at the time by another manufacturer but it received a somewhat hostile reception, basically on the grounds that it diluted the purity of the Marklin brand.

Bob M.
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Offline baggio  
#11 Posted : 01 November 2014 18:42:59(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
I was not actually thinking of universal locomotives, albeit that would be GREAT, I was simply suggesting universal tracks that could be used on a layout. This would result in my DC locos running on my Marklin layout by switching input.
Offline mike c  
#12 Posted : 01 November 2014 19:12:28(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
I actually understand what Maerklin has done with the takeovers of Trix and Lehmann. Maerklin is a model train company. As such, these acquisitions give them a market presence in HO, N, Z, I and II Scales. The problem here is that many Maerklinists are loyal to the core brand, the HO Scale 3 Rail AC and see the other parts of the business as superfluous.

The new generation of decoders require DC motors. The decoder and circuitry converts the AC voltage into DC. The cost-efficiency department at Maerklin would naturally ask if we need DC voltage for the motors, why don't we just switch to DC power completely?

Maerklin had a reputation among it's clientele for robustness and play worthiness. Among others, I was largely viewed as a toy. This brings us to the whole discussion about whether model trains are toys or hobby and how much realism should go into the models. Without opening that whole can of worms, this has been a topic that for years has split the market in two.

I think that it is in Maerklin's interest to continue to make models and to support their core market. At the same time, in the ever shrinking model railroad market, the company should not ignore modellers who want more detail. There is no reason why Maerklin cannot decide to continue to make 1:100 models and hobby models for one segment, while also making more evolved models for those who want exact scale and more detail. Now, I am not talking about models that necessarily have to have all the rivets reproduced, but more in terms of improving the interior details and making the models to a consistent standard. For example, some models are 1/87, others are 1/93. They do not look as good when operated next to each other.

The company needs to focus on the following:

Model quality. So far, all of my models still have the classic Maerklin motor, except for the SDS and Sinus models and the new plastic Traxx (37446). I cannot comment on whether new motors are good or not because I have not had enough operating experience.
I can comment on problems with consistency of the finish of recent products. The company needs to make sure that paint and quality control is properly done, because a properly painted and properly wired locomotive will go a long way towards convincing the customer that the brand is worthwhile of subsequent investments. No one wants a customer to be disappointed with a purchase because it was somehow "lacking". Somewhere along the line, missing wires or improper paint jobs have to be detected and corrected. Quality control is not a step that can be skipped to save expenses.

With the trend towards having similar locomotive types in many countries, the company should make sure that these new locomotive designs (Bombardier, Siemens, etc) are modelled in the regular catalog and not as "Hobby" models. This applies to the Traxx, Taurus, Vectron and other design types. For international versions, the company should do it's best to reflect variations between models (pantograph types, details, etc). I can understand compromises due to operational requirements (i.e. catenary operation) but they should make smaller wipers available for those who want more precision.

We also have to touch on the plastic vs metal issue. There are some who insist on die-cast only and others who are more open to plastic bodied locomotives. For me, the bottom line is quality. If it is a quality Maerklin loco, it should not make a difference if it is plastic or metal. Yes, a metal model might survive longer at the hands of a 8 year old, but how many of us are still 8 years old today. If we have children, they can play with the "hobby" models while the grown modellers have their own models.

If the company can follow these steps, they will regain some of the customers who are now buying other brands and that will hopefully generate some additional revenue that can then be used to implement more changes which will continue to keep the brand active.

My other suggestion would be that Maerklin should look to using it's European manufacturing facilities to manufacture models for other companies rather than having those companies outsourcing to Asia. That could bring in some additional revenue as well.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#13 Posted : 01 November 2014 19:17:30(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: rmsailor Go to Quoted Post
Making universal AC/DC locomotives was a suggestion I made a couple of years back as they were being proposed at the time by another manufacturer but it received a somewhat hostile reception, basically on the grounds that it diluted the purity of the Marklin brand.

Bob M.


I cannot see the sense in making a loco that will run on 2 rail and 3 rail equally well. To run on 2 rail track the pickup shoe will have to be removed or have some mechanism that would lift it sufficiently high to clear the cross rail as the loco goes over points. The extra complexity involved doesn't justify the complexity, and the market for the functionality would be tiny.

I don't altogether agree with leahcim that you end up with two separate lines to make an otherwise identical loco for Marklin and Trix. The only difference required is insulating the wheels on one side of the loco for Trix, and replacing the pickup shoe with wipers onto the insulated wheels. have a look at a modern Trix loco that also appears in the Marklin line and you will see what I mean - the wipers screw on the bottom with a unit that is very similar to the pickup shoe, using the same mounting screw. The difference is small enough that once the Marklin locos are built a small change in the process makes the Trix ones as an extension of the same production batch.

As an aside to this, when the first Big Boy loco was built as an Insider loco it was available in full digital and also a Delta version. One day when speaking with Dieter Lorenz I asked why they bothered with the Delta version instead of making them all full digital, and he said that the Delta market was around 10% of the full batch production, and it was worth producing them for the people who only want them for display purposes as 'shelf queens' and would prefer to pay the lower cost of a Delta loco compared to a full digital. It will be the same for Trix items as an additional production extension of Marklin items, it is worth it for the additional income while improving the amortisation of tooling and one-off setup costs of a production run.
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Offline mike c  
#14 Posted : 01 November 2014 19:18:09(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
Originally Posted by: rmsailor Go to Quoted Post
Making universal AC/DC locomotives was a suggestion I made a couple of years back as they were being proposed at the time by another manufacturer but it received a somewhat hostile reception, basically on the grounds that it diluted the purity of the Marklin brand.

Bob M.


It would not be too difficult in the present to make a model which could be operated on both AC or DC layouts. All that would be required would be a few jumper switches and a slider which could be attached for AC operation. This would require a clip-on or screw mounted slider with a contact on the bogie and jumpers that would allow for the wheel contacts to be merged into a common ground and the slider to replace the positive one.

The downside for the companies is probably the possible legal consequences for damages if somebody placed an improperly set-up locomotive on the tracks and damaged models/equipment, especially in some lawsuit crazy countries.

Regards

Mike C

Offline Bigdaddynz  
#15 Posted : 02 November 2014 11:02:19(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
I agree with Ray, anything we say here is irrelevant because Marklin do not read these pages and even if they did they probably wouldn't take much notice. You could ask 50 people this question and you will get 50 different answers.

All we end up doing in threads like this is creating more hot air, which might feel good to get off one's chest but ultimately achieves nothing. Still, it's interesting to read some of the opinions.
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Offline baggio  
#16 Posted : 02 November 2014 15:39:48(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Maybe I did not make myself clear:

I have no doubt that Marklin is not going to read these posts or, if they did, they would admit to using any of the ideas we expressed. That is not the point of the discussion.

All I wanted to see is what people would want to see done by Marklin to improve its position and please us, the consumers, who contribute to Marklin's success (or failure), that's all.

Have a good Sunday everybody. In Toronto it's nice and sunny. BigGrin

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Offline Mark_1602  
#17 Posted : 02 November 2014 18:05:41(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
I agree with Ray, anything we say here is irrelevant because Marklin do not read these pages and even if they did they probably wouldn't take much notice. You could ask 50 people this question and you will get 50 different answers.

All we end up doing in threads like this is creating more hot air, which might feel good to get off one's chest but ultimately achieves nothing. Still, it's interesting to read some of the opinions.


Hi,

I don't know if they read what we write in this forum, but they certainly read what people write in German MRR forums and react to that. Märklin changed its plans and used a five-pole motor in the new E93 because of a 60-page thread in Stummis Forum. I know from reliable sources that more than one Märklin worker has to read posts in forums, and that's not limited to Stummis. They also follow other forums, including 'Alte Modellbahnen' (Old Model Trains), although that particular forum only has about 4,000 members, most of whom are collectors or users of vintage trains and therefore rather unlikely to buy new Märklin products.
Märklin wants to increase sales in export countries, so it might be a good idea for them to observe what goes on here.

I agree that even if they read this, they probably won't follow our 'advice', but that's the well-known 'inertia' that's characteristic of the company. Maybe Mr Sieber will change that. Twenty years ago, Märklin was so successful that it didn't have to take into account the customers' wishes, but in a shrinking market and with falling sales Märklin needs to try a little harder. They're working on improvements ...

Best regards, Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
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Offline hxmiesa  
#18 Posted : 03 November 2014 10:51:56(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
I´ve followed this thread from the beginning, but I´ve wanted to give it some thought, before jumping to the keys.

I dont doubt that the management have a pretty clear picture of whatg is working and what is not.
I dont think it takes too much effort to understand that they must:
Tighten up cuality-control.
Standardize electronics and motors. The difference between TRIX and M. models should be reduced to a switch and an attachable slider.
If it is toocostly to produce in metal, they should make lead-weighted plastic models. To all the "stupid" die-hard metal-fans; The worst metal-bodied loco is NOT better than the best plastic-bodied loco!
The question should ONLY be to get the most and the best product for the lowest price. Best details, durability and driving characteristics, that is.

Like I said, it shouldnt be too difficult to figure out what goes wrong in the current production. It might take more or less money to FIX the problems, but I dont think it is a trial-and-error game to try to fix it.

On the contrary to the above -which I consider pretty normal logical thinking- we have the "old" collectors and model railroaders.
Here is where things gets difficult, and where logic some how takes a leave of absence.
These guys INSIST (for reasons only understandable to themselves, and sometimes not even that!) that models be in metal, can run on older track-systems. Can run on real AC power. Has all and every little details, be it part, paint or reproduced sound.
These guys represent a huge market, and big bukcs. They do NOT -however- represent the future!!! But still, are a segment too big to be ignored.
I doubt that any other brand has its teeth sunk as deep into this segment, as Märklin does. It´s probably quite an enviable position, so it is only natural/logical that the company continue to use a good part of its development and marketing resources to continue to cater to it.
The old, dying brand-loyal costumers are nice to have, but only consitently good quality products will create NEW brand-loyal costumers.

Well... IMHO as always!!!
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline rbw993  
#19 Posted : 03 November 2014 17:47:16(UTC)
rbw993

United States   
Joined: 19/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 954
This sounds a lot like Lionel here in the USA. Similar market and quality issues and a search for what will work in the future!

Roger
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Offline Mark_1602  
#20 Posted : 03 November 2014 22:20:45(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
I´ve followed this thread from the beginning, but I´ve wanted to give it some thought, before jumping to the keys.

I dont doubt that the management have a pretty clear picture of whatg is working and what is not.
I dont think it takes too much effort to understand that they must:
Tighten up cuality-control.
Standardize electronics and motors. The difference between TRIX and M. models should be reduced to a switch and an attachable slider.
If it is toocostly to produce in metal, they should make lead-weighted plastic models. To all the "stupid" die-hard metal-fans; The worst metal-bodied loco is NOT better than the best plastic-bodied loco!
The question should ONLY be to get the most and the best product for the lowest price. Best details, durability and driving characteristics, that is.

Like I said, it shouldnt be too difficult to figure out what goes wrong in the current production. It might take more or less money to FIX the problems, but I dont think it is a trial-and-error game to try to fix it.

On the contrary to the above -which I consider pretty normal logical thinking- we have the "old" collectors and model railroaders.
Here is where things gets difficult, and where logic some how takes a leave of absence.
These guys INSIST (for reasons only understandable to themselves, and sometimes not even that!) that models be in metal, can run on older track-systems. Can run on real AC power. Has all and every little details, be it part, paint or reproduced sound.
These guys represent a huge market, and big bukcs. They do NOT -however- represent the future!!! But still, are a segment too big to be ignored.
I doubt that any other brand has its teeth sunk as deep into this segment, as Märklin does. It´s probably quite an enviable position, so it is only natural/logical that the company continue to use a good part of its development and marketing resources to continue to cater to it.
The old, dying brand-loyal costumers are nice to have, but only consitently good quality products will create NEW brand-loyal costumers.

Well... IMHO as always!!!


Hi,

I agree with you that the Märklin management have found out by now what isn't working. In the last five years they must have read a million angry posts about quality control in MRR forums. Some years ago, the China production was the problem, whereas now it seems to be the factory in Hungary, but they can fix it.

However, your suggestions would make Märklin lose a lot of money. Do you know that plastic models made by Märklin don't sell? Just to give you an example, let's take 37307, a plastic Trix design with an excellent five-pole motor with skewed armatures. That's exactly what people ask for on MRR forums, so why did nobody want to buy it??? Märklin's best-selling locomotives are the Insider models (all metal), followed by the replicas of old models like the 3021, 3030, etc (all metal as well). When the 3021 replica was released a few years ago, an official Märklin dealer in Germany (where I used to be a customer) told me that the 30210 was one of the best-selling locomotives Märklin built in that year! Last year I visited another dealer in Germany and talked to the boss. He told me they had sold a large number of 30301 engines, but had not had a single complaint. Metal locomotives are not too expensive to produce; Märklin has a profit margin of around 10 per cent, and metal locomotives are Märklin's main source of income. (The replica metal cars were less successful.)

Of course they should make some plastic engines as well. They could expand the Start-Up range like that and sell plastic engines at a lower price because they could be entirely made in Hungary. There's nothing wrong with cheaper product ranges as an additional source of revenue, but that won't make Märklin survive because the younger customers who might buy Start Up won't be as loyal to the brand.

As you say, Märklin lives on 'old' customers who like 'old' metal engines, but it's simply a fact that people under 35 don't spend much money on Märklin. They want the best decoders and sound, all for less than 200 euros, and they're more liable to buy Piko than Märklin anyway. By the way, many people who like 'old' trains are not as old as you think they are! Märklin is much more profitable than Roco and can keep going like this for 10 or 20 years with the wealthy owners who have bought the company, providing they fix some problems. If there's a new financial crisis in a few years' time, the DC manufacturers will lose more customers than Märklin. The Siebers have also turned the old Schuco company into a very successful business, so they'll make sure that Märklin remains number one.

Best regards, Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#21 Posted : 03 November 2014 23:13:58(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
.......followed by the replicas of old models like the 3021, 3030, etc (all metal as well). When the 3021 replica was released a few years ago, an official Märklin dealer in Germany (where I used to be a customer) told me that the 30210 was one of the best-selling locomotives Märklin built in that year!


Why ever have they stopped making them then? - I'm still waiting for a 30470 (Yes, I bought 30050, 30480 and 30210), and I love that style of blue box.

Edited by user 04 November 2014 20:31:39(UTC)  | Reason: Added 30480 to comments

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Offline hgk  
#22 Posted : 04 November 2014 02:30:42(UTC)
hgk


Joined: 10/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 455
Location: Pacific Ocean
This won't contribute anything to it's survival but if I were King Märklin for a day I would accept paypal on their webstore, parts etc.
It's a huge plus for me whenever I can pay online with it. Is there some international commerce reason for not using it or is it just not popular in Germany?
-George
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Offline seatrains  
#23 Posted : 04 November 2014 04:44:04(UTC)
seatrains

United States   
Joined: 22/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 669
Location: Shoreline, WA
baggio, great thread you started and lots of great discussion.BigGrin
  • marklin folks do read this list. We know that the Marklin USA folks have even commented!

  • I was in sales and marketing for a while, before getting into design and construction. Why has Marklin completely given away the large scale markets? In the olden days, prior to LGB being bought out by Marklin, you could find it everywhere! Piko and Bachman are everywhere that LGB used to be, and LGB is no where to be found in the remaining local shops.

  • What happened to Marklin Z scale? It used to be around in shops that did not even carry 3 rail Marklin. Now it is almost invisible. Last I checked people are living in smaller houses and companies like American Z Line and Micro Trains, keep producing American outline Z products and I see it in many shops, so they can sell it?

  • Besides the quality issues, that will kill any company, they need to fire all the marketing and sales staff, and get some of these products that they used to sell, back in online shops and the brick and mortar stores!

  • Oh, last thing, for the USA dump Walthers!
Thom
European Train Enthusiast - Pacific Northwest Chapter
4th Division, Pacific Northwest Region, National Model Railroaders Association
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Offline foumaro  
#24 Posted : 04 November 2014 05:31:44(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,420
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
I hope Marklin will produce more real metal locomotives with high quality of materials,decoders,speakers and leave the plastic toys for others.
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Offline Mark_1602  
#25 Posted : 04 November 2014 14:49:55(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
.......followed by the replicas of old models like the 3021, 3030, etc (all metal as well). When the 3021 replica was released a few years ago, an official Märklin dealer in Germany (where I used to be a customer) told me that the 30210 was one of the best-selling locomotives Märklin built in that year!


Why ever have they stopped making them then? - I'm still waiting for a 30470 (Yes, I bought 30050 and 30210), and I love that style of blue box.
I should add that I also purchased 30480. /BDNZ


Hi David,

Good question! I've also wondered why they haven't announced any replicas in 2014. I can just report a little story that happened this year. On one German MRR forum I read a post written by a member who happened to visit his Märklin dealer in Düsseldorf, Germany. As he walked into the shop, he was surprised to see Mr Florian Sieber, who actually had a conversation with him and answered his questions.
The forum member asked about spare parts for old locomotives, but Mr Sieber couldn't give him a definite answer there. Interestingly, Mr Sieber then asked if Märklin fans would be interested in more replicas, so Märklin will probably produce more in future. I really liked that story: the Märklin boss and CEO talking to customers in a large MRR shop (Menzels Lokschuppen). Cool

Actually, this is the first time in the history of Märklin that one of the owners has been a managing director since 1979. (*) That's one reason why I'm optimistic for them. The second one is that they still have a a good customer base. All other MRR manufacturers are jealous of Märklin because of ... its loyal customers!!! Cool

Best regards,
Mark

P.S. (*) I looked it up in the book 'Märklin Chronik 125 Jahre', written by Joachim Kampmann. It's a bit complicated because until 2006 Märklin used to belong to three families: Märklin, Safft and Friz. Each of these used to have a managing director in the company. When Eugen Märklin retired in 1935, his son Fritz Märklin took over and was managing director until his death in 1961. Claudius Märklin, a grandson of Eugen Märklin, started working for the company in 1974 and became a board member in 1978; he was never a managing director but used to be in charge of the 'Märklin Magazin'. Richard Safft, died in 1945, and his son, Herbert Safft, was managing director from 1949 until 1979 and was responsible for the technology of Märklin products. Emil Friz died in 1922, and his son-in-law, Max Scheerer became the third managing director; he retired in 1956, at the age of 75!! In 1979 Herbert Safft was the last of the co-owners to retire as managing director, but he stayed on as a board member. When Märklin was finally sold in 2006, twenty-two members of those three families had to sign the papers! One of the three who did not want to sell was Claudius Märklin, though he had to bow to strong pressure in the end.

Edited by user 08 November 2014 10:37:05(UTC)  | Reason: added some information

Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
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Offline RayF  
#26 Posted : 04 November 2014 15:19:27(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
As far as replicas go, I would like Marklin to produce "improved replicas" of some of their earlier models, such as the SK800, DL800, SEF800, SEH800, ST800, etc.

By "improved" I mean that they can use the old bodies but produce new mechanisms and running gear to more modern standards. They already produce the replicas with modern decoders, so this is only one step further. Changing the mechanisms would placate the collectors who fear that replicas will erode the value of their originals, while still producing a locomotive that looks like the classic toys of the 1950s, with the benefit of better looking wheels, valve gear, bogies etc.

These models could be accompanied by re-issues of the 3xx series coaches, in the same way as some of the tinplate 4xxx coaches have been released recently.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline RayF  
#27 Posted : 04 November 2014 15:30:03(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Sorry, repeated post accidentally!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline hxmiesa  
#28 Posted : 04 November 2014 16:55:43(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: hgk Go to Quoted Post
This won't contribute anything to it's survival but if I were King Märklin for a day I would accept paypal on their webstore, parts etc.
It's a huge plus for me whenever I can pay online with it. Is there some international commerce reason for not using it or is it just not popular in Germany?

Common sense, maybe?
I´m certainly not an expert, but I understand that PayPal is NOT a bank, and that they dont abide by the same rules as when you pay by direct transfers, or use Master/Visa etc. cards.
While it may be very usefull to the private buyer, the professional seller can get into problems, with PayPal suddenly freezing their accounts, and no third-party non-biased ententity installed to overlook procedures and complaints.
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline H0  
#29 Posted : 04 November 2014 17:42:43(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
I´m certainly not an expert, but I understand that PayPal is NOT a bank [...]
PayPal write they are a bank ("PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. et Cie, S.C.A. is duly licenced as a Luxembourg credit institution [...]"):
https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/about

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline hxmiesa  
#30 Posted : 04 November 2014 18:15:35(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
I´m certainly not an expert, but I understand that PayPal is NOT a bank [...]
PayPal write they are a bank ("PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. et Cie, S.C.A. is duly licenced as a Luxembourg credit institution [...]"):

"PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. et Cie, S.C.A. is duly licenced as a Luxembourg credit institution in the sense of Article 2 of the law of 5 April
1993 on the financial sector as amended and is under the prudential supervision of the Luxembourg supervisory authority, the Commission de Surveillance du Secteur Financier, with registered office in L-1150 Luxembourg."

PayPal Europe would be allowed to do banking business inside the EU.
Although they state that they dont do normal bank-business, becuase they dont engage in fractional-reserve banking.
In the US they are licensed only as a money transmitter on a state-by-state basis. (and NOT as bank)
I dont know if the difference in clasification between the US status and the european status affects they way they can transfer the money between continents.
When you create a new account, I beleive you are created in the US, even though you are in another country.

It would be good news if they have finally signed up to abide by common banking rules and laws (for scrutiny), if that is the case?! (My information is only valid up until mid-2013)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline RayF  
#31 Posted : 04 November 2014 19:51:51(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Many large and small companies accept Paypal payments for online purchases, and it is a safer way to transfer money than a cheque that can be lost or a bank transfer that will cost you unspecified sums extra in bank charges.

The money paid will be deducted from your chosen credit card without the details of that account being made public, or transmitted during the course of the transaction.

As Paypal is an important institution operating worldwide I have faith that they will deliver the service securely and safely, and if they didn't their reputation would surely be tarnished by now. I have used them extensively for ebay purchases and occasionally for transferring money to individuals and companies. I have had less problems than with "pure" credit or debit card payments.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Goofy  
#32 Posted : 06 November 2014 09:47:17(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post


What should Marklin do?
It's easy to suggest "lowering prices", but with 10 million € profit at 100 million € sales there isn't much room for price reductions. Florian Sieber is trying to reduce production costs to increase profits - this is part of the problem as quality went down.



The real problems are competitors and too much products to produce.
If you read Märklins catalog,you notice over 500 pages and lot of products to produce,which makes costs for the company.
If Märklin wants to survival by reduce costs,they must focus by stop waste of time by produce too many products.
Results makes lesser products and better quality.


H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline RayF  
#33 Posted : 06 November 2014 13:31:21(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
A smaller range of products in HO that stay more than one year in the catalogue might give lower operating costs, but it would also result in less sales.

A fine balance has to be struck.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline nitramretep  
#34 Posted : 27 October 2015 03:02:05(UTC)
nitramretep

United States   
Joined: 22/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 207
Location: lower hudson valley, ny
I agree with a lot of the comments and suggestions. I have 2 more:

1. Eliminate Walthers as the US distributor; have a Marklin owned distribution center direct to dealers, no middle men.
2. Spend some time providing better manuals for products like the CS2, this is a common problem with German manufacturers of all types; poor translation and too little data.
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Offline Hackcell  
#35 Posted : 27 October 2015 03:43:00(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
True, specially about the user manuals part. I strongly believe M must release more US based models.

They can give a try, at the end of the day I don't think too many US model manufacturers have the reputation and years in business as M does.
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
Offline baggio  
#36 Posted : 27 October 2015 03:58:01(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
But if you exclude Westend Trains in Toronto, where do you go here in Ontario to have a Marklin loco serviced? Nowhere. You have to send it to Germany. I cringe at the thought of this store shutting down! Scared

Even in the US, there are few places that fix Marklin locos on the premises. Reynaulds does, who else?

Train manufacturers like to sell on the Internet, but a wise buyer knows that waiting for months to get a loco fixed (with shipping time back and forth and sitting on a shelf in Germany) is not a viable option and therefore is not likely to buy Marklin/Roco products and opt for North American locos that can be serviced where he buys them.

I decided NOT to buy Hornby products in part for this reason: no-one that I know of to service them in Ontario.

Walthers sells Marklin locos at horrific prices; it's only when they have a sale that the price becomes attractive.

Also, I wonder if DC locos, as opposed to DCC locos, tend to require less maintenance/repairs. Any thoughts on point?

Offline Hackcell  
#37 Posted : 27 October 2015 04:20:43(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
I cant conceive there are not too many Märklin repair centers (or at least people with enough expertise to fix a M model) in the United States; specially when I can tell you there are 2 in Costa Rica. Quite a lot for a country one third the size of Florida.
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
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Offline H0  
#38 Posted : 27 October 2015 07:34:06(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: nitramretep Go to Quoted Post
Eliminate Walthers as the US distributor
Walthers lost their distributor status long ago. Did this make things better?

It seems that Stefan Löbich was aiming at the US market. It seems he left because the new owners had other plans.

Since then new Märklin locos come without FCC approval.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline baggio  
#39 Posted : 27 October 2015 13:13:57(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Since then new Märklin locos come without FCC approval.


Are you sure?

I thought last year M was required to stop exporting wireless remote sets because of FCC concerns over interference. Hence, the wired remote, a REAL JOKE (I have it Cursing ).
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Offline H0  
#40 Posted : 27 October 2015 13:25:29(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Are you sure?
No, I'm just kidding.

Many recent Märklin locos have this disclaimer on the last page of the manual:
MaerklinGoAmerica.png
I'm sure Märklin are just joking. Except for the "absolves us of any liability" and the "additional costs incurred" part. And the other legaleze parts.
FCC approvals are just red tape. No risk, no fun.

A few years ago the text was slightly different:
MaerklinGoAmerica_old.png
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline baggio  
#41 Posted : 27 October 2015 13:29:19(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Sensitive, are we, HO? Wink
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H0
Offline RayF  
#42 Posted : 27 October 2015 14:00:03(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I believe the US has only ever been a minority market for Marklin, in terms of US models.

With apologies to the US Marklin fans here, I'm sure that the vast majority of US railroaders feel well served by the many domestic brands available which provide a much broader range of US models at a much lower price.

The US models in Marklin's range were only there to appeal to the US servicemen stationed in Germany since the Second World War, and I'm sure that market is a lot smaller in recent years.

For Marklin to remain (or become) profitable they must concentrate on their core European market, producing mainly models that are well made but affordable, along with a few high end models at higher prices for those who want them.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Thewolf  
#43 Posted : 27 October 2015 15:37:05(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I believe the US has only ever been a minority market for Marklin, in terms of US models.

With apologies to the US Marklin fans here, I'm sure that the vast majority of US railroaders feel well served by the many domestic brands available which provide a much broader range of US models at a much lower price.

The US models in Marklin's range were only there to appeal to the US servicemen stationed in Germany since the Second World War, and I'm sure that market is a lot smaller in recent years.

For Marklin to remain (or become) profitable they must concentrate on their core European market, producing mainly models that are well made but affordable, along with a few high end models at higher prices for those who want them.


I agree

Thewolf
Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#44 Posted : 27 October 2015 15:57:31(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,863
Location: CA, USA
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I believe the US has only ever been a minority market for Marklin, in terms of US models.

With apologies to the US Marklin fans here, I'm sure that the vast majority of US railroaders feel well served by the many domestic brands available which provide a much broader range of US models at a much lower price.

The US models in Marklin's range were only there to appeal to the US servicemen stationed in Germany since the Second World War, and I'm sure that market is a lot smaller in recent years.

For Marklin to remain (or become) profitable they must concentrate on their core European market, producing mainly models that are well made but affordable, along with a few high end models at higher prices for those who want them.


You nailed it Ray- If they have problems in core markets, then the US needs to be second priority.

In addition, so many American Marklin fans buy direct from Germany anyways, that Marklin probably doesn't even know they real addressable market for their products here. We only have the basic theories of economics and the advent of the internet to thank for that. (which essentially turned all serious american collectors onto buying direct form europe and bypassing Marklin USA due to price)

I think at this point in the game the US market is a lost cause for Marklin. The smart move is setting up a capable 3rd party in the US to handle warranty service, supply parts, and oversee any distributor needs. One box goes each direction every 2 weeks or so. (parts and support items one way, any fully-defective items for factory return the other)

Its not that hard or that expensive. At the end of the day I agree the current model is bad customer service, but they can easily get away with it. If the same person was too cheap to buy the train in the US to begin with, they will be too cheap to pay shipping both ways to germany for a small warranty repair.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#45 Posted : 27 October 2015 16:18:09(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I believe the US has only ever been a minority market for Marklin, in terms of US models.


Twenty years ago I was told that Marklins market was split as follows: -

75% of production os sold in Germany.

Of the remaining 25%, 75% (i.e. around 18.75% of production) is sold in Switzerland.

The rest (i.e. 6.25% of production) is sold in the rest of the world - including the rest of Europe.

I don't see anything that would cause me to think the numbers are much different today.

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Offline rorosha  
#46 Posted : 27 October 2015 16:22:23(UTC)
rorosha


Joined: 06/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 57
Location: MECHANICSBURG PA USA
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I believe the US has only ever been a minority market for Marklin, in terms of US models.

With apologies to the US Marklin fans here, I'm sure that the vast majority of US railroaders feel well served by the many domestic brands available which provide a much broader range of US models at a much lower price.

The US models in Marklin's range were only there to appeal to the US servicemen stationed in Germany since the Second World War, and I'm sure that market is a lot smaller in recent years.

For Marklin to remain (or become) profitable they must concentrate on their core European market, producing mainly models that are well made but affordable, along with a few high end models at higher prices for those who want them.


I am part of that american market, and I can honestly say that I have absolutely ZERO interest in any american models which they produce. And I know that I am not alone in that.

If Märklin eliminated all of their american models, I wouldn't care. Probably, if you could look at sales figures, the american models are substantially more popular in other markets than the american market.


As far as american domestic brands go, they don't. They're quality is in most cases severely lacking, their attention to detail doesn't exist. That's why their prices are so much lower. Also, a lot of americans have a "throw it away" attitude. When something breaks, throw it away and get another. The quality of many goods in general makes that attitude a necessity, at least in the american market.

I have talked with a number of american model train enthusiasts over the years, and have been repeatedly told that they would never buy an expensive piece, ever. They could buy two or three, or four or five for the price of the "expensive" stuff. And when it broke, they'd be out more money when they threw it away. They would rather have the cheap stuff instead, and replace it (frequently) when (not if) it breaks.

There are some premium domestic brands, but they end up being just as expensive as Märklin. They may look great, and the quality is better than the average products, but they are still not the quality of Märklin. Many of those premium models are relegated to a life trapped in some static display, rather than being given a chance to run and live a full life. The average Märklin model is given that chance, luckily.

I've seen this especially with Lionel collectors. Some will display their models, but most (that I know) never open the box, wrap it in plastic (box and all) and put it on a shelf, thinking that is enjoying the "hobby". I know very few that actually have any layout, even a simple loop, even though they may have the space.


I would like to see Märklin release some nice less expensive (NOT CHEAPER) models, but if they don't, it will not stop me from buying their models.


Considering the way the world is changing, the way technology is developing, and people's interests are changing and developing, there is little short of a complete abandonment of of it's current "old world" product line, and development of a direct mental link immersive virtual reality reality system that would ensure their future into the next century.

I know that product was developed eons ago, but seems to have been abandoned by people today. Most of us are probably old enough to remember it, it was called imagination! We could take the simplest things and create worlds around it. Today, we expect someone else to create those worlds for us!
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Offline petestra  
#47 Posted : 27 October 2015 16:40:27(UTC)
petestra

United States   
Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 5,824
Location: Leesburg,VA.USA
I am also from the American Market and have been since 2009 buying my trains from a German dealer and occasionally some items from

ebay USA. I use Lokshop since 2009 and wonder if Märklin asks them where their customers come from? In other words am I and the many

others from outside Germany considered German market or other? Peter Confused



PS - I also have no interest in American models.
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Offline rrf  
#48 Posted : 27 October 2015 22:13:04(UTC)
rrf

United States   
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 300
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
Hello,

I may be in the minority. In the last ten years, ninety percent of my Märklin purchases have been through a local dealer. I feel it is important to support any local store that carries Märklin!

I have paid a penalty for this practice though. Walters has screwed up a number of my orders over the years. Most I have been able resolve thru a small importer who I go to for out of production models. He has some excellent contacts with German distributors and it amazes me what he has been able to find.

The one I will never forgive Walthers for is the BR 50-1963 Birthday Locomitive order they lost Mad

BTW, all of my collection is Deutsche Bundesbahn. Also, the percentages above do not include the obligatory train purchases from my trips to Germany over this time period Wink
Rob
Mackenrode Wende Bahn
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Offline baggio  
#49 Posted : 28 October 2015 00:28:43(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
I buy all my Marklin products from Westend Trains in Toronto and would not go elsewhere.

One exception, a used $40.00 analogue steam loco with tender. Not a great buy.Cursing

I, too, feel it's very important to give business to local stores. Besides, I get top notch technical service. BigGrin

Also, I always use debit - no matter where I buy my train gear (unless they claim it makes no difference) - that, too, helps the stores survive.

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Offline RayF  
#50 Posted : 28 October 2015 09:27:41(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I have always been a firm supporter of "bricks and mortar" dealers, but the truth is they are few and far between in today's world.

When I was growing up there was a Toy shop in Gibraltar that sold Marklin. My dad bought me my first train set there. There were also a couple of other toy and model shops stocking other brands, like Hornby, Triang, Lima, Faller etc... Marklin disappeared from Gibraltar in the 1960s and other brands slowly died out too, so that by the mid 1980s there was no shop in Gibraltar selling any kind of model trains.

I make frequent visits to the UK, so in the 1980s I started buying from dealers in London. I bought from H&M models, Hamleys, Beatties etc. They all closed or stopped selling Marklin and today there is no longer a single shop within an hour by train from London that stocks Marklin. In fact it is almost impossible to find a Marklin dealer in UK who stocks more than 3 or 4 locos from the current range.

In my present job I occasionally travel to Luxembourg, where there are at least 3 shops with good stocks of Marklin. Whenever I'm there I bring back a few hundred Euros worth of train stuff. I did notice on my last visit that one of the shops was selling less Marklin...

However, for normal train related purchases, spare parts, etc, I have to rely on on-line shops. I can't "pop down" to a dealer to have my defective loco seen to, or to buy that extra section of track I need. Enthusiasts like Silvano and Rob who have a local dealer must consider themselves lucky to still have one within reach. By all means support these dealers while they still exist, but make plans for alternatives as they probably won't last much longer
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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