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Offline Ian555  
#1 Posted : 13 October 2014 15:21:57(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,235
Location: Scotland
Hi all,

I would like to run 4 trains on the same line continuously but with the safety feature that should 1 stop or drop a wagon/coach the following train would stop automatically.

I would prefer to not go to computer control or use any signals.....

I am using K flex track so thought each block could be 2.7m ( 3 sections ), I believe it would require 8 blocks.

I have a total length of 26m for the route mainly using 2205 track.

Most of the track is in position, but no electrical connections /work done yet.

Any help/advice/input much appreciated.

This will be a new and exciting challenge for me, so please be gentle. Smile

Ian.

Offline michelvr  
#2 Posted : 13 October 2014 20:15:46(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Hello Ian,

I hope this helps and I know you mentioned that you do not want to use a computer or signals but I thought that this might explain how I am doing it.

My layout is designed to run 4 trains on the same line continuously but with the safety feature of blocks controlled with RR&CO Train Controller. I am not familiar as to how to do it any other way but I know that you can also use other train control programs, Rocrail etc.

I'm using ESU's ECoS with the 50094 Detector and from my experience it work's well. I am not finished setting it up but I have had it working. If there is a block occupied then the following train stops, until the block is free. I think that you will be using Marklin's S88 detectors?

The most important aspect of having a successful K track block layout with detection is to separate the blocks. I separated each block using the 7522 Third Rail Insulator. My blocks are as long as the longest train, meaning that I figure that the longest train will be 10 feet or 3.1 metres.

You can use the Marklin parts or do what I did and solder a wire to the rail and solder a wire to the puko plate underneath. Then drill a hole into the plywood top of your layout so you can feed the wire to the underside of the layout. These are called feeder wires which will have to be numbered so that you will know what wire is what when you connect them to a feedback detector. Only connect the pukos wire to the feedback detector. The track wire is negivate/ground.

The reason that I did not use the Marklin 7500 Ground connector and 7504 K track centre stud terminals was because of cost, I would of had to spend well over $300.00 to do what cost me less that $50.00 my way!

For connection to the rail; I use Orthophosphoric acid as the flux and Silver solder to connect to the stainless rails. Then I clean with flux remover using a toothbrush.

For connection to the puko plate underneath the track I file of the black paint then I use a regular flux with 22 gauge solder (electrical solder not plumbing solder) to attach the wire to the puko plate, then I clean it with flux remover then paint over it to prevent corrosion.

I hope this helps, confuse it may!

Michel
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Offline amartinezv  
#3 Posted : 13 October 2014 20:27:11(UTC)
amartinezv

Spain   
Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 320
Location: Madrid,
Hello,

The easiest way to acomplish that you want is to use a software like RR&co WinDigiPet or others, then you will need to use retrodecoders s88 and decoders k83 for all turnouts and electromagnetic devices.

I think that the CS2 has the posibilities to do something, for example push-pull trains but I don't know exactly what the CS can do, in any way you wiil need also s88 and k83.

Other posibility is to use a simple analog system, only with the turnouts and signals and relais, but will need some acknowledge in electrics to design and wire your system.

Then , what to do?

I suggest to learn (That's mean to read and understad) the marklin signal book, ther is a lot of versions that you can get in the web for example

http://www.lctm.info/Biblioteca/Libros/index.htm

It doesn't matter if the book is from the 70s or is the last one, the theory and how the block system works is the same.

Some easy rules:
Numer of blocks must be grater that number of trains, the minimun is blocks=trains + 1
Always every block has to be longer that the longest train

Hope this helps, best regards
Antonio Martínez
marklin, IB, era 3, Train controller
www.raildigital.es/davidruso
Offline Danlake  
#4 Posted : 13 October 2014 21:13:33(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Hi Ian,

As I understand you want some block control using the function of CS 2 only.

The simplest way is to design a system as you would on a analogue layout. Circuit tracks switching power on/off to blocks. This can be done with the K84 decodes..

If want to detect uncoupled cars, it gets a bit more tricky if only using CS2 and to be honest Iam not sure if it can be done...

The way CS 2 works for automation is briefly:

You draw your track diagram on CS 2. It needs to contain some feedback sensors (S88). These can either be contact tracks (see Fabrice posts on how to make easily homemade contact tracks) or you can install circuit tracks.

The CS2 has a function called memory route. Basically a route is just a sequence of event that you want to take place when a sensor is triggered. E.g. A basic route route could be: contact on track a is on; switch turnout x, giver power to track y, sound the whistle function on loco z etc. You can also assign a route to a route. But note the system is basic - every time sensor activated the route will initiate...

With above it would not be possible to do automation as you would like (to stop a loco progressing forward because a car is left in the next block and the trigger is still on).

However in 2013 Marklin did an update to the memory function, so you can now put certain condition into to the route, meaning e.g. Do not activate route x if sensor y is still activated. So in here it may do possible to do some automation...

See post https://www.marklin-user...-Feature.aspx#post397828

I'll let other experts dick in and maybe they can help you.

Brgds Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
Offline MikeR  
#5 Posted : 13 October 2014 21:30:02(UTC)
MikeR

United States   
Joined: 26/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 263
Location: Denver
Originally Posted by: Ian555 Go to Quoted Post
I would prefer to not go to computer control or use any signals.....


Hi Ian

Perhaps the issue is whether you would like prototypical slowing of locos before they are stopped or are simply using this as a safety feature in which case a sudden stop by a locomotive before it enters the next block will be acceptable. In either case some external intelligence is required to trigger the train stopping. A CS2 has the capability of doing this and is being used by AndreasK to run his complete layout. As far as I am aware he uses a 72442 equivalent connected to a K84 as the mechanism to stop the trains. This allows the train to slow before stopping. It also allows for signals to be added if prototypical operation is required - although you mentioned that this would not be your preference. Signals do allow you to see whether a loco remains stopped because of dirty track or whether it is waiting for something on the track ahead to be moved.

If you are happy with a sudden stop, you could use the CS2 and drive a 7244 relay (or equivalent) from a K84 which would simply switch off the power to a section of track, bringing any loco to an immediate and sudden stop. The relay could also drive a simple signal if needed.

The sensor side of the system is fairly simple and would involve isolating one side of the track from the brown power supply and connecting that isolated track section to a S88. This would provide the feedback to the CS2 as any wheel sets in the isolated track section would act as a switch (connecting to the other track) and send a signal to the S88 for onward transmission to the CS2.

Using a computer adds flexibility but at the same time does add complexity. There are a number of alternatives that can be considered here - RocRail and Railroad & Co Train Controller to mention 2.

Irrespective of which route you choose it is important that you understand the basics. My experience is that if you are willing to experiment you should be able to pick up the knowledge needed fairly quickly. There is also this forum where there is a wealth of knowledge.

I agree with your approach of starting your automation with one track. When you are comfortable you can decide whether this should be expanded to other parts of your layout.
Mike
Digital - C track with CS2 and Railroad&Co TrainController; feedback using LocoIO via a Locobuffer
Analog - M track with solid centre rail (after C track layout is complete)
Collect all Eras - especially Crocodiles
Member of ETE
Previously a member of the Marklin Modellers' Group Johannesburg
Offline MikeR  
#6 Posted : 13 October 2014 21:34:22(UTC)
MikeR

United States   
Joined: 26/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 263
Location: Denver
By the way I should mention that I think that the 72442 works with both analog and digital locomotives. In the case of analog locos the stop will be sudden while the digital locos will slow down before coming to a stop.

Using the 7244 relay will also work with both analog and digital locomotives as power is being removed from a section of track.

Mike
Digital - C track with CS2 and Railroad&Co TrainController; feedback using LocoIO via a Locobuffer
Analog - M track with solid centre rail (after C track layout is complete)
Collect all Eras - especially Crocodiles
Member of ETE
Previously a member of the Marklin Modellers' Group Johannesburg
Offline pab  
#7 Posted : 14 October 2014 13:58:24(UTC)
pab

Netherlands   
Joined: 03/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 2,752
The 72442 is not a relay, but a brake module.
You need to divide your block into a number of sections.
First the free run section, no influence of the brake module. As long as you need, but a minimum of your longest train is advisable
Second: the change section, which "sends" a signal to the decoder of the loco and make it stop. About half a track (9 cm)
Third: the braking section. The loco will come to a stop based on the settings of the decoder. Lights, steam and so on are still on. Minimum 3 tracks long.
The safety section. Has no current when showing red.
You don't need the relay from the signal, but connect the signal to the module to show the correct lights and/or semaphore movements.
You don't need a computer or other decoders.

I use that on my lay-out in combination with Viessmann semaphore signals.
Offline Ian555  
#8 Posted : 14 October 2014 14:34:16(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,235
Location: Scotland
Hi all,

Thanks, loads of information to be getting on with.

First can I ask, do you have 2 blocks for every Loco you want to run....4 Loco's = 8 blocks.

I've already laid 2205 ( 900mm ) flex track, and was thinking of using 3 length's as a block, can I just make the contact tracks from the flex track, I like the idea of the 72442 brake module, could I use this on say the 3rd section of 2205 track.

Thanks again.

Ian.
Offline Caralain  
#9 Posted : 14 October 2014 15:27:15(UTC)
Caralain

United States   
Joined: 15/08/2010(UTC)
Posts: 301
Location: Bay Area, California
Hi Ian:

The block system doesn't work like that. It's not the number of locos, but the way the blocks are organized on your layout that is important . To work properly, your entire layout should be divided in blocks. The more you have, the better the safety will be. A block is delimited by a signal at both end. Say for example you have a main station with 5 tracks. If you want to use the tracks in any direction, you should have 10 signals (2 per tracks), block 1 will be on track 1, block 2 on track 2, etc...Inside of each main block, you can determine "sub-blocks" that are used to slow down progressively the trains. I personally use two sub-blocks for each of my tracks in my main station, but three would even be better, especially in the case of your pretty large layout.

If you want, could you please post a sketch of the layout you want to manage by computer. It would be easier for me to divide your layout in blocks if I have a sort of blue print. When the blocks are thought carefully, it would be then easier to create routes and itineraries with whatever software you will choose.

Best regards,

Pierre
Offline Ian555  
#10 Posted : 14 October 2014 15:55:17(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,235
Location: Scotland
Hi Pierre,

I do not want to use a computer, hoping my CS2 can handle this, what I'm after is a system of block control that would prevent 1 train running into the back of another, the length of track is 26m so roughly 3m a block would give 8 blocks and thus be able to run 4 trains, so I would like to have 4 trains running on the same circle with no points being changed, but with the safe guard that should 1 slow down the following train would not run into it.

If I can get this to work, then I would duplicate it on a further 3 circles, and so on this section of the layout I would have 16 trains running continuously, but with this safety feature included.

Thanks.

Ian.
Offline pab  
#11 Posted : 14 October 2014 17:33:04(UTC)
pab

Netherlands   
Joined: 03/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 2,752
Hi Ian

I you want to be prototypical there should be a free section between trains.

What I call the change section shouldn't be longer than 9 cm. From my experience I know from experience that a second pick up shoe (eg from the first coach behind the loco) entering that section causes a short when the first hasn't completely left the section.

Of course you can easily cut the flex track completely to make the desired length. But it's easier to use 2 times a 4,5 cm piece.
Offline Ian555  
#12 Posted : 14 October 2014 17:57:09(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,235
Location: Scotland
Hi Piet,

Not sure what you mean, a change section between each block.

Ian.

Offline Danlake  
#13 Posted : 14 October 2014 18:50:26(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Hi Ian,

Yes – that should work. With 8 blocks and 4 trains you will always have 1 block free in front of the train.

I think Piet is talking about the section if you use a brake module, where you would normally divide the block into 3 sections (one of these are called the change section).

The brake module is not necessary but will give a smooth stop and acceleration.

There are some good general advise in above post but no one actually puts forward the solution you are after; the CS2 to control the trains and ensure a train will not enter an occupied blocks (monitored by S88).

As I said it my previous post – I’m not sure it’s that easy. I think we need the advice from some CS2 users who actually is using something similar?

I know some creative automation can also be done by using a K84 decoder to disable a sensor (e.g. used during shuttle mode).

The guy we need to ask about all this is Mr. Clapcott. Maybe drop him a PM?

Brgds - Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
Offline Ian555  
#14 Posted : 14 October 2014 20:02:11(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,235
Location: Scotland
Hi Lasse,

Thanks, I will also need help with how a block is laid out with contact tracks/brake module, and then eventually how it's all wired together.

A big ask I know...

Ian.

Offline MikeR  
#15 Posted : 14 October 2014 23:03:47(UTC)
MikeR

United States   
Joined: 26/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 263
Location: Denver
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post
The guy we need to ask about all this is Mr. Clapcott. Maybe drop him a PM?


Hi Ian

You should also send AndreasK a PM as his layout has a block control system managed from his CS2. He will be able to add practical experience of getting the system to work. Also his experience now that it is installed and running.

Mike
Digital - C track with CS2 and Railroad&Co TrainController; feedback using LocoIO via a Locobuffer
Analog - M track with solid centre rail (after C track layout is complete)
Collect all Eras - especially Crocodiles
Member of ETE
Previously a member of the Marklin Modellers' Group Johannesburg
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Offline Harvey  
#16 Posted : 15 October 2014 02:26:10(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 591
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Ian

I will describe my layout, which does not match exactly what you want. I use M track, reed switches and magnets to control changing signals and power to blocks. In my hidden yard, I eliminate the signals. I use K83 and K84 decoders (K83 to pick up the signal to the reed and relay to the S88 (and onto the CS2). The CS2 will the direct the K84 to open/close power. Both Marklin manuals 'Controlling, Switching, Running' and 'The HO Signal Book' cover this approach and others. Their example is N blocks with N-1 locomotives. I see no reason why 8 and 4 would not work. I run either 3 passenger trains (or 1) with 8 blocks (some blocks are the hidden yard (1 block) and passenger station (2 blocks)) with no problem. I only have to 'open' the first block if I change from running 3 locs to one. (Something has to open the block that was last closed).

Of course, not sure about reeds and K track.

Regards

Harvey
Offline fkowal  
#17 Posted : 15 October 2014 03:27:33(UTC)
fkowal

Canada   
Joined: 01/02/2012(UTC)
Posts: 69
Location: Toronto
Hello Ian,
I wanted to also mention the aspect of operational reliability. The contact tracks are very reliable, yet they will have a long "ON" signal when the entire length of the train goes over it. This will trigger the change in signal aspect and any switches (points) you may want to include in your control circuitry for the same long duration. Marklin has changed the switch motors (point motors) so they will not burn out with long signals but their reliability remains a question mark. (see complaints about C-track switch motors, K track not much different).

Harvey mentioned reed switches instead of contact sections which is a good idea. It has a shorter "ON" signal. Switch tracks triggered by the loco's pickup show also give momentary contacts yet they are relatively unreliable ( do not switch, get stuck after switching and will not return to original position., sometimes work/sometimes not etc.). The option I am pursuing is using a track current as an "ON" switch element in the S88 system. This is also momentary ( length of shortest track, i.e.. 90 mm or so (must be longer than longest pickup shoe)) yet also with bombproof reliability. Viessmann and LDT supply units that function as current detectors for S88 systems. The only drawback with this approach is that pickup shoes for lighting under passenger wagons will also give an unwanted signal.

No system is without its drawbacks.

Fkowal
Offline Danlake  
#18 Posted : 15 October 2014 07:41:13(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Hi Ian,

I think I found the material you need.

Marklin digital newsletter 25.3 and 25.5 by Curtis Jeung has a 2 part detailed explanation of how to use automate control with CS2.

He also describes how to divide the blocks and what type of sensors you can be using.

As per previous post the concept is to use K84 decoder to switch on/off power to the blocks. So a Train in block A will not be allowed to leave block A before block B is free.

However if the train already left the block and heading towards block B and the block is now occupied it will not be able to stop the train (only with PC software will you be able to have full control of all trains at all times).

I can email you copy of the newsletters, not sure if I am allowed to post the PDF files here...

Send me a PM with email address.

Brgds - Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
Offline Ian555  
#19 Posted : 15 October 2014 10:13:50(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,235
Location: Scotland
Hi all,

Thanks again for the help and advice. ThumpUp

Lasse...PM sent.

Ian.
Offline pab  
#20 Posted : 15 October 2014 10:27:21(UTC)
pab

Netherlands   
Joined: 03/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 2,752
Hi Ian

I see you maybe got what you want.
About the use of a 72442

This is the manual

What I called the change section is called transition section in the manual.

I use circuit tracks to control the brake module. I don't use K83.
Offline Ian555  
#21 Posted : 15 October 2014 10:54:12(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,235
Location: Scotland
Hi Piet,

Thanks, no doubt I'll have plenty more questions to come...

Ian.

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pab
Offline Ian555  
#22 Posted : 15 October 2014 14:41:38(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,235
Location: Scotland
Hi Lasse,

Have printed of the 2 newsletters.

Will make very interesting reading.

Thanks.

Ian.
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Offline Ian555  
#23 Posted : 17 October 2014 14:38:29(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,235
Location: Scotland
Hi all,

Since the block system using a CS2 and K track is new to me I plan on building a small test track, this will be a simple oval and I would split that into 4 blocks and control 2 trains, this allows me 1 clear block between trains and would be a similiar setup to what I plan for the layout.

Also I would like to use the brake module 72442 for each block, and do not want to use any signals.

So, how do I set out the contact tracks for each block, and how is it all wired together.

I hope to make the contact tracks myself, but for the rest I'd need some kind of list so to order what parts are required.

Any help/advice much appreciated.

Ian.

Offline michelvr  
#24 Posted : 17 October 2014 15:27:07(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Originally Posted by: Ian555 Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

Since the block system using a CS2 and K track is new to me I plan on building a small test track, this will be a simple oval and I would split that into 4 blocks and control 2 trains, this allows me 1 clear block between trains and would be a similiar setup to what I plan for the layout.

Also I would like to use the brake module 72442 for each block, and do not want to use any signals.

So, how do I set out the contact tracks for each block, and how is it all wired together.

I hope to make the contact tracks myself, but for the rest I'd need some kind of list so to order what parts are required.

Any help/advice much appreciated.

Ian.



Hello Ian,

Excellent idea! Test layout with four blocks is exactly the way I learned to become a master block/route maker for my layout! I also became very proficient in making perfect solder joints that are so small and neat that you have to look really hard to find the wires joined to the track.

As mentioned in my post you can buy the Marklin parts or scratch build the parts and solder to the rail and pukos. The most important aspect of a block system is the length of the block.

Please check out Railroad and Co website;

http://www.freiwald.com/pages/index.html

Please read the excellent information that is presented.

What really helped me when I started was the route test. Here is the link:

http://www.freiwald.com/pages/routetest.htm


One of the most helpful websites for track wiring is from Alan Gartner's Wiring For DCC.

www.wiringfordcc.com

Please read this also as it is very informative!

Track Part II - Allan Gartner's Wiring For DCC
www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm

Yes it is a lot to read and learn but in the end the fun and enjoyment you will get out of you model trains is well worth it.

Michel




Offline Ian555  
#25 Posted : 17 October 2014 15:37:01(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,235
Location: Scotland
Hi Michel,

Thanks, just the kind of information I'm looking for.

Plenty of reading there, understanding it, well that's a little more difficult...Smile

Will let you know how I get on.

Thanks again.

Ian.

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Offline Danlake  
#26 Posted : 18 October 2014 08:44:50(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Hi Ian,

I made this pdf file with various info (hope French_Fabrice don't mind I borrowed some of his photos)BigGrin

http://freepdfhosting.com/b8e8d6618b.pdf

It's a basic automation. Each block consist of the brake section (power on/off) followed by a S88 contact sensor.

For this you will need below supply (for 4 blocks):

1 S88 module
1 K83 module
4 brake modules
Insulation tabs etc.

Once you have this up and running you can try and see if it will be benefial also to have a senor in the beginning of the block.

Hope this help.

Brgds - Lasse



Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline Ian555  
#27 Posted : 18 October 2014 10:32:58(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,235
Location: Scotland
Hi Lasse,

Thanks very much.

I shall get the parts that I need ordered this weekend.

Ian.

Offline GlennM  
#28 Posted : 18 October 2014 19:55:47(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Ian,

The question posed in the original post is slightly different to that discussed when we were at the Marklin meet last week-end, and the solutions posed above are more complicated than I had suggested at the week-end, but I think will result in a much better running experience than was contemplated with our discussions ThumpUp ThumpUp ThumpUp

Go for it run some tests and let us know how you get on.

Best Regards

Glenn
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
Offline Ian555  
#29 Posted : 18 October 2014 22:41:32(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,235
Location: Scotland
Hi Glenn,

I'm glad we had the discussion last weekend, the basic idea has just evolved a bit.

Ian.
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Offline Ian555  
#30 Posted : 19 October 2014 15:21:05(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,235
Location: Scotland
Hi all,

Märklin are replacing the k83 and k84 decoders with m83 and m84 new more programmable decoder.

m83 decoders...60831

m84 decoders...60841

There is also an accessory set for the 60831...60821.

Ian.
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Offline Ian555  
#31 Posted : 31 October 2014 14:35:55(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,235
Location: Scotland
Hi all,

Parts delivered from Lokshop, still waiting on the 60882 s/m88, not delivered from Marklin yet.

Ian.


..


..

....
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Offline Ian555  
#32 Posted : 31 October 2014 14:41:12(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,235
Location: Scotland
Hi all,

Going to set up a test track using 4 blocks to control 2 trains, 1 clear block in front/behind.

If/when I get that to work, then I can double that up for my layout route.

Still not sure what point I start at....

Ian.


..

....
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Offline michelvr  
#33 Posted : 31 October 2014 15:03:54(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Originally Posted by: Ian555 Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

Going to set up a test track using 4 blocks to control 2 trains, 1 clear block in front/behind.

If/when I get that to work, then I can double that up for my layout route.

Still not sure what point I start at....

Ian.


..

....


Hi Ian,

My starting point is creating the block lenght, installing the insulators and then installing the feeder wires. I use 18 AWG wire (American Wire Gauge) ((metric 0.75 mm)) for the feeders and 14 AWG wire ((metric 1.628)) for the bus. Most importantly is having everything going to a central location and labelling all the wires so you can trace them when a fault occurs.

One word of advise whenever connecting wire to any devise make sure that the power is off. You will need a wire terminal bar to have all the wires connected to. Use smaller wires from the wire terminal bar to the devices.

Michel
Offline Ian555  
#34 Posted : 31 October 2014 15:17:24(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,235
Location: Scotland
Hi Michel,

Roughly I was going to split that test track into the 4 corners as my blocks ( only running 2 Loco's )

Ian.

Offline michelvr  
#35 Posted : 31 October 2014 16:11:17(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Originally Posted by: Ian555 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Michel,

Roughly I was going to split that test track into the 4 corners as my blocks ( only running 2 Loco's )

Ian.




Hi Ian,

Sorry I got carried away,forgetting about the test track, Best is to wire it up and see how it works!

Michel


Offline bygger01  
#36 Posted : 01 November 2014 20:41:29(UTC)
bygger01

Denmark   
Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 181
Location: Herning in Denmark
I am coming late into this topic

It is starting with that a block is 270 cm or 3x 2205 .....

But how long will the longest train be on the track ?

How will the contact be done / with it be the wheels or with xxxxx ( can't remember the name for the Märklin speciality under )

How fare is there from a block to the next contact point, which will close the block behind ?

Are all trains with the loc. in front / because if behind, then there some wagons in front

Are all loc. driving and starting with same speed

Or is there an empty block between two working blocks ?


Why this

Because I think that block driving need a delay, so the "fast" train from behind don't hit the slow in front, before the fast reach the next block, so here will a delay be welcome

There can be problems, if the mix are with loc. in front and behind.

------------

Here at home we running it with brake moduls from Uhlenbrock / wheel contact / and relais / and analog, so we have min. 4 meters between each block

And we are runing with max. 200 cm with loc. in front and 100 cm pushing from behind

The delay ( can be variated ) is up to 10 sec. before the loc. starting from a block to the next one, so we can handle slow/fast trains and also loc's in front and pushing from behind ......
Best regards
Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/-
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by bygger01
Offline Ian555  
#37 Posted : 15 November 2014 07:00:49(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,235
Location: Scotland
Hi all,

Making a start....

Ian.




....
Offline Danlake  
#38 Posted : 15 November 2014 07:33:01(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Looks good Ian,

I can see one of the first trial loco's will be a DaneThumpUp

Brgds Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
Offline Ian555  
#39 Posted : 15 November 2014 07:57:59(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,235
Location: Scotland
Hi Lasse,

I've had that T299 for around 5 years, but she never ran well on my M track layout (used to stick on the points/switches), so first run on K track, that's her running round with 3 clicks on the CS2.

Ian.

Offline NZMarklinist  
#40 Posted : 24 November 2014 04:26:59(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: Ian555 Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

Making a start....

Ian.


[....



Hi Ian, I'm a little late chiming in here, but just to comment on the video, it is impressive to see the 39644 with "controlled high-efficiency propulsion"

running so slowly and smooth ThumpUp I haven't run mine as yet Blushing

However at that slow speed you won't prove a thing and if that test track has four blocks, you need another train on it, and a bit more throttle to see what happens Wink (It won't hurt ... promise Sneaky )

I will comment further on the technical issues when I get a moment Smile

Train room and all looking great ThumpUp
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
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