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Offline Cyborg  
#1 Posted : 22 October 2014 09:20:09(UTC)
Cyborg

Australia   
Joined: 11/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 107
Location: Maroubra
Hi All,

As I assume most of you would have encountered, the 74491/2 turnout mechanisms have been far from reliable, most only operating in one direction after a short amount of use (I actually believe the less you use them the more likely they are to fail, probably because the microswitch corrodes). I have returned them in batches and Marklin, to their credit, have always replaced them.

I just received a new one that I bought from MSL and was pleasantly surprised to see it looks like Marklin has finally upgraded it with what looks like different internal workings. I hope this solves the reliability problems with them.

Is anyone aware if these are in fact a new design and if it has solved the 'working in one direction' problem?

Cheers

Paul
Offline Drongo  
#2 Posted : 22 October 2014 10:24:15(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,221
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Paul,

I've been sending these motors back as well and they've replaced them with 74491's - not the 74492's. If you are correct and they have addressed the problem of reliability then that is great news. Drool Drool Drool

However, why haven't they advertised this fact or have I missed their promotional material.

I have about 100 turnouts and the most annoying and disappointing aspect of my layout, is the unreliability of these motors. I recently bought a few Viessmann units to try out and so far they are proving to be much better then the 74491's. I must try these 74492's.

Regards
Greg
p.s. I live on the other side of the bridge. Lane Cove
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Offline kiwiAlan  
#3 Posted : 22 October 2014 11:51:11(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Cyborg Go to Quoted Post
Hi All,

As I assume most of you would have encountered, the 74491/2 turnout mechanisms have been far from reliable, most only operating in one direction after a short amount of use (I actually believe the less you use them the more likely they are to fail, probably because the microswitch corrodes). I have returned them in batches and Marklin, to their credit, have always replaced them.

I just received a new one that I bought from MSL and was pleasantly surprised to see it looks like Marklin has finally upgraded it with what looks like different internal workings. I hope this solves the reliability problems with them.

Is anyone aware if these are in fact a new design and if it has solved the 'working in one direction' problem?

Cheers

Paul


While I was in Australia recently I helped a mate of mine sort out his 74991 motors by shorting out the microswitch with a big blob of solder. He had a half dozen or so of them that were giving him problems.

I was interested to see that one of them had some surface mount components associated with the switch terminal. I don't know if Marklin are trying spark suppression of the terminals in an attempt to sort out the reliability, but this one was iffy as well.
Offline Cyborg  
#4 Posted : 22 October 2014 12:14:56(UTC)
Cyborg

Australia   
Joined: 11/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 107
Location: Maroubra
Hi Greg,
Just to clarify, I actually bought a 74491 which appeared to be a new design internally. Time will tell if it is an improvement.

Regards

Paul (from the southern side of the bridge)
Offline Danlake  
#5 Posted : 22 October 2014 17:05:28(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Hi Paul,

Any chance you could post a photo?

Thanks!

Brgds - Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 22 October 2014 18:08:06(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: youngagain Go to Quoted Post
I must try these 74492's.
Same as 74991, but comes with a different cable.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline sjlauritsen  
#7 Posted : 22 October 2014 20:02:06(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post
Any chance you could post a photo?

Reckon that, I would very much like to see a photo.

I have given up upgrading any of my points because of the failure rate of this drive. New hardware would be great news!


Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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Offline Joseph Meiring  
#8 Posted : 22 October 2014 20:28:47(UTC)
Joseph Meiring

South Africa   
Joined: 27/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,157
Location: Western Cape Cape Town
Would love to know if there has been an "upgrade" to the mechs - given up sending them back to M, postage prices are horrific from SA to Germany; so here's hoping!!
Offline Drongo  
#9 Posted : 22 October 2014 23:58:56(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,221
Location: Sydney, NSW
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: youngagain Go to Quoted Post
I must try these 74492's.
Same as 74991, but comes with a different cable.



Thanks Tom. I won't bother to buy any of these.

Regards
Greg
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Offline Cyborg  
#10 Posted : 23 October 2014 07:32:48(UTC)
Cyborg

Australia   
Joined: 11/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 107
Location: Maroubra
Hi All,

I'll send a photo when I get home from work. I am aware the 74991 and 74992 are the same unit other than the cables, but this new 74991 is different to other ones I bought earlier this year or were supplied as replacements from Marklin.

regards

Paul
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Offline sjlauritsen  
#11 Posted : 23 October 2014 07:36:51(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
*crossing fingers*

I really hope this is what I have been waiting for. Allthough really like the Viessmann unit, I would much rather have a separate decoder. With the Märklin drive out of the picture there is no real alternative for me. :-/
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 23 October 2014 07:50:24(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Cyborg Go to Quoted Post
I am aware the 74991 and 74992 are the same unit other than the cables
You are - but many people assume it's a new, improved item because there is a new number.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Cyborg  
#13 Posted : 23 October 2014 11:06:29(UTC)
Cyborg

Australia   
Joined: 11/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 107
Location: Maroubra
Hi again,

Attached is a photo, it doesn't really show much other than the circuit boards are different. (The top one is the older one). Obviously I have not dismantled it to check it out.

Paul

Cyborg attached the following image(s):
image.jpg
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Offline sjlauritsen  
#14 Posted : 23 October 2014 12:07:51(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Thanks for the picture!

Hmm. To me that looks to be exactly the same drive. The only thing I see is a new product label. Until I see the layout of the board inside the box, I am pretty sure that is the same drive. Unsure
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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Offline Drongo  
#15 Posted : 23 October 2014 13:31:40(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,221
Location: Sydney, NSW
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for the picture!

Hmm. To me that looks to be exactly the same drive. The only thing I see is a new product label. Until I see the layout of the board inside the box, I am pretty sure that is the same drive. Unsure


I agree. I think I'll keep using the Viessmann units.

Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Offline Danlake  
#16 Posted : 23 October 2014 15:24:54(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Thanks Paul,

In recently also got a supplied of these from Lokshop.

I think it's the same type, but I will open it and have a look.

But to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if Marklin issued a new improved version without changing the product number, as they never publicly acknowledge issues with the mechanism.

Brgds Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
Offline H0  
#17 Posted : 23 October 2014 18:13:56(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: Danlake Go to Quoted Post
But to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if Marklin issued a new improved version without changing the product number, as they never publicly acknowledge issues with the mechanism.
The new 74991 hardware was sold in 74990 boxes for a while. The 60215 hardware was sold in 60214 boxes for a while.
Changes come silently - a new ref. number may follow.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline RayF  
#18 Posted : 23 October 2014 18:22:13(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Changes to products are not always advertised, and may be due to updates and improvements, which most companies do as a matter of course, or because parts become unavailable and new suppliers have to be found.

This is not surprising to me.

Of course, any changes should not deviate from the published specifications, unless it improves them.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline sjlauritsen  
#19 Posted : 23 October 2014 20:42:09(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
We will know when Lasse has flipped the thing open and had a look (and given us some pictures) :-)
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
Offline Danlake  
#20 Posted : 23 October 2014 21:08:58(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
We will know when Lasse has flipped the thing open and had a look (and given us some pictures) :-)


Unfortunately I am at work in Qatar and will be some works before I return home to the man cave...

Brgds Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
Offline Drongo  
#21 Posted : 24 October 2014 11:34:34(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,221
Location: Sydney, NSW
I bought 4 Viessmann 4554 units to replace the Marklin product and so far they have been very reliable.

When you compare the prices there is very little difference between them, however, the mechanisms are totally different. I've ordered some more and I'll keep you up to date with the results.

The only difficulty, is the programming of the Viessmann unit, however, when you get the hang of it, it's quite simple. I've written my version of the instructions and if anyone is interested I'll post them .

Regards
Greg
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
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Offline sjlauritsen  
#22 Posted : 26 October 2014 08:16:24(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: youngagain Go to Quoted Post
When you compare the prices there is very little difference between them, however, the mechanisms are totally different. I've ordered some more and I'll keep you up to date with the results.
The only difficulty, is the programming of the Viessmann unit, however, when you get the hang of it, it's quite simple. I've written my version of the instructions and if anyone is interested I'll post them .

Yeah, programming it can be a bit fiddly with having to attach several wires and so on. I bought one drive a few months back and it works very well. My only thing with the Viessmann drive is the fact that they come with a built-in decoder. I would much rather have a seperate decoder (e.g. m83 or similar with motor controls). In case something goes wrong, only the drive needs to be replaced and I will not be left with a useless decoder.

I did a review on the Viessmann motor on my website: http://railway.zone/post...smann-4554-turnout-motor

Edited by user 09 March 2015 15:15:42(UTC)  | Reason: Change URL

Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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Offline sjlauritsen  
#23 Posted : 26 October 2014 08:26:02(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: Cyborg Go to Quoted Post
I have returned them in batches and Marklin, to their credit, have always replaced them.

How does that work? Do you need to show proof of purchase or something? Because some times a motor fails within a day, some times within a year and some other time over a year.

Living in Denmark, I could live with sending mine back to our neighbors for replacement and have a buffer storage at home.

Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
Offline Purellum  
#24 Posted : 26 October 2014 09:12:43(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Quote:
How does that work? Do you need to show proof of purchase or something? Because some times a motor fails within a day, some times within a year and some other time over a year.


Søren, I went to "Togcenter Gentofte" with 12 brand new 74444-sets, each having a 74490 + a 74460 in the box.

I asked Theis if he wanted to buy them for their "Used parts shop", but he wouldn't.

But even if I clearly told him that I didn't buy them in his shop, we opened all 12 74444-boxes, took out the 74490-boxes,
and he sent the 74490-drives to Märklin for replacement.

This really confused me, since they where brand new and never taken out of the boxes, and thus never failed.
Also, I think it's 6 or 7 years since I bought the drives, from a German eBay shop.

He said that Märklin had so far exchanged every drive he ever sent them, and it also happened for me, a few months later
I got a text message ( 31-03-2014, I just checked ), telling me that the drives where now ready to be picked up.

I even wrote about this in a famous Danish forum, a few days after I handed the drives to Togcenter Gentofte:

http://baneforum.dk/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=925

The new drives I got are 74491, at least it says so on the box.

No cost for me at all. BigGrin

My plan now is to keep my new drives until Märklin has made a reliable drive, and then repeat the procedure.

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline Cyborg  
#25 Posted : 26 October 2014 09:52:04(UTC)
Cyborg

Australia   
Joined: 11/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 107
Location: Maroubra
Hi,
All my invoices are kept on my computer so I just dig up one of them to prove the purchase (I have only been into this hobby for 18 months so all my items are still under warranty as I bought them all new). The postage for me is not much, a single 74491 costs me less than $3 Australian to send back airmail. I just wrap in a bit of bubble wrap and place in a normal envelope with a letter and copy of the receipt. Every one of them has got there and been replaced! Apart from the snails pace in processing repairs, I have found Marklin to be excellent in supporting their products with everything I have sent back either being replaced or repaired under warranty (locomotives, mobile station and of course turnout motors). On one occassion they even replaced 2 turnout mechanisms without me having to send them back after I sent them an email expressing my frustration at their continual failure.

cheers

Paul.
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Offline Joseph Meiring  
#26 Posted : 26 October 2014 12:06:28(UTC)
Joseph Meiring

South Africa   
Joined: 27/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,157
Location: Western Cape Cape Town
Indeed, I had the same experience as well - there were times M would simply send me replacements without me sending the faulty ones to them: once they even sent 2 in return for one failed mech.
I figure they know they have problems, so are quite OK with replacements - I just SO wish they would get it right real soon; such a hassle breaking up the ballast and scenery!!....and with our current almost non-existent postal service in SA, there's not much we can do but solder the switches as they fail...bummer!!
I echo Paul's comments about the very good warranty service from M....
Joe
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Offline sjlauritsen  
#27 Posted : 26 October 2014 21:13:38(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Thank you all for your comments. Do you just contact Märklin service to get a repair code or number or some kind of agreement?
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
Offline Cyborg  
#28 Posted : 27 October 2014 00:39:00(UTC)
Cyborg

Australia   
Joined: 11/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 107
Location: Maroubra
Hi Soren,

I just send them with a covering letter and copy of the invoice to the service centre address. Usually I have the replacement back in Australia About 2 months later.

Paul
Offline sjlauritsen  
#29 Posted : 09 April 2015 21:51:33(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: Cyborg Go to Quoted Post
Is anyone aware if these are in fact a new design and if it has solved the 'working in one direction' problem?

Unfortunately, I can now confirm that nothing is new about these "new sticker" point motors. I have had two failing me today. They are about six months old.

Oh well, hopefully new ones are on their way to the shops.
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
Offline Joseph Meiring  
#30 Posted : 09 April 2015 22:09:17(UTC)
Joseph Meiring

South Africa   
Joined: 27/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,157
Location: Western Cape Cape Town
Oh dear, that's rather sad news! my only hope is that 6 months go they still were selling the "old?" ones in the shops...??
Frank Mayer from M wrote me again and said to send all my mechs that I wanted to, and they will be replaced by the new generation ones.
And you still cannot buy any 79441 from Lokshop nor Modellbahnsho-lippe. I hope this means the "new generations" mechs are still only available from the M factory??
Otherwise, Viessmann 4558 here I come!
Joe
Offline sjlauritsen  
#31 Posted : 09 April 2015 22:23:20(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: Joe Meiring Go to Quoted Post
And you still cannot buy any 79441 from Lokshop nor Modellbahnsho-lippe. I hope this means the "new generations" mechs are still only available from the M factory??

The ones I got was from a store about the same time that somebody else got the same "new sticker" motor from Lippe. I have noticed that they have been out of stock for quite a while, so you may be right. I hope you are, otherwise I will have to go with Viessmann.

Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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Offline waorb  
#32 Posted : 10 April 2015 14:27:10(UTC)
waorb

Brazil   
Joined: 31/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 868
Location: Brazil
Originally Posted by: Joe Meiring Go to Quoted Post

And you still cannot buy any 79441 from Lokshop nor Modellbahnsho-lippe. I hope this means the "new generations" mechs are still only available from the M factory??

That's the question left behind...

How do we know "guaranteed" at the shop which mechs is new or old?

Meanwhile, almost all my turnouts (+50) are soldered... no issues after...

Cheers,

Walter

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