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Offline Sparrow  
#1 Posted : 07 October 2014 00:18:57(UTC)
Sparrow

Spain   
Joined: 05/09/2011(UTC)
Posts: 219
Some time ago I purchased two couples of c track 24711 + 24712 slim turnouts, complete with the small pieces needed to join them.

They sure look good, but I found two problems:

-Old engines such as 3047 and her cousins often shortcut when crossing the turnouts.

-Short engines tend to "climb" over the lenght of elevated pukos and lose adherence, even getting stuck. (Non Märklin 2 rail locos converted for 3 rail operation are especially prone to this behaviour)

-Some engines make both things!


Have you experienced similar problems?

Is there a cure for them? I´m about letting slim turnouts out of my future layout, but it would be sad because I really really like them!
Best regards.
Luis.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Sparrow
Offline Danlake  
#2 Posted : 07 October 2014 08:22:04(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Hi Luis,

I have a few of the slim turnouts and so far not have these issues.

I have a few old analogue engines (mainly diesels) and they are running ok.

However I have several issues with engine derailing on M-track turnout and had to do small modification (sanding part of the narrow plastic frog that guides the loco in the right direction).

I guess you already checked the pick up shoe is correctly aligned?

Brgds - Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline Janne75  
#3 Posted : 07 October 2014 09:36:40(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Hi Luis,

I have four wide radius turnouts 24711/24712 on my layouts mainlines. There are sometimes problems with older locomotives or rolling stock wheels making short circuits. There is a solution however to this one. Make sure your wheels are adjusted to correct spacing.

Some of the pukos closest to the rails should be isolated from their sides so this won´t happen anymore. Here is a link to that topic:

https://www.marklin-users.net/fo...-circuit.aspx#post462536.

I have not done this modification yet, but I will do it as it is so frustrating when locos are running and sounds are on etc. and then there comes short circuits because of these clearance problems for older wheels. But I think there really are no solution to your second problem.

Like Lasse wrote it is very important that the pick up shoes are aligned as otherwise it is very likely they will make a short.

Cheers,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline Sparrow  
#4 Posted : 07 October 2014 12:36:34(UTC)
Sparrow

Spain   
Joined: 05/09/2011(UTC)
Posts: 219
Thank you Gents! I had tried to isolate the crossing rail by painting it with clear varnish, but had not thought about isolating the pukos themselves.
Regarding the slides, yes I´ve checked them.

Anyway I find it more difficult indeed to solve the second problem, since some of my non Märklin locos have a very small clearance below the chassis and therefore the sliders cannot move upwards as much as needed, so they run well on conventional C-track, but not on slim turnouts.

Thanks again.
Best regards.
Luis.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Sparrow
Offline witzlerh  
#5 Posted : 07 October 2014 17:55:13(UTC)
witzlerh

Canada   
Joined: 25/09/2010(UTC)
Posts: 417
Location: Sherwood Park, AB, Canada
I love the wide raduis turnouts. But I also had the same issues on a couple of loks as well.
One thing I did notice was that the pukos have been sitting a little to high to ensure the slider sails over the rail without touching. I noticed this as I also have the short radius turnouts and the pukos do not go as high. They also have the pukos more rigidly mounted in the bed.

I had just pushed them down as there is a small amount of movement and that took care of some of the loks.

I just recently discovered that a rarely run lok having some issues so I will look carefully. This means setting up a switch and track at the edge of the table so I can really get close with a flashlight and at eye level. The sparks help look for shorts but sometimes just slowly wiggling the lok side to side will show the issues.

Painting varnish on the track that sliders go under is an excellent idea for those non-Marklin loks that have a slider added, or for those . This means I push or sand the pukos down to allow for smoother running. Or I just chisel out the slider pocket to get the slider riding higher and not lift the lok as much.

As a reminder. Ensure that the sliders are flat or very slightly concave. (ends slightly raised) If the sliders are convex, (ends slightly lower), the ends will touch the rail and cause a short. However a very concave slider will also cause the center of the slider to touch the rails.
As noted before, they should aslo be paralell to the wheels/track. I had one non-marklin slider go crooked on me. After a couple of times, I glued a piece of styrene on one side to keep the slider straight.

I am also looking to get some of the newer slimer sliders for low clearance loks. Marklin has it on my LINT but there are thin sliders from other companies too.

Harald
CS2 DB & Canadian Era 3-6
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Offline Jay  
#6 Posted : 07 October 2014 20:47:14(UTC)
Jay

South Africa   
Joined: 01/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 303
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Hi,
I have had the very same problems with 60s rolling stock. Thinking that the wheel spacing might be too small, I contacted Juvye to point me in the direction of a supplier of a tool to adjust
The spacing. Unfortunetly or fortunetly I have not had a reply from the recomended supplier, because I have since measured the spacing with a vernier and found the spacing to 13.8mm exactly.
I have also seen damage to the wheels from the shorting on the pukkos on my rolling stock. Thanks to the forum I have found a (cheap) solution to the problem.. However I would still like to
Aquire a tool to be able adjust the wheel spacing. Anybody here can point to a supplier of such a tool. I would also be interested in the source of new replacement wheels.
Thanks in advance
Jay
Offline kiwiAlan  
#7 Posted : 08 October 2014 00:24:20(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
I have had a similar issue with a 3687 Glaskasten loco on K track turnouts. The loco is not heavy enough to keep from being pushed up by the slider pressure as the studs rise to lift the slider over the rail.

Offline Janne75  
#8 Posted : 20 October 2014 22:00:46(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Hi all,

Finally I did this good modification to my four wide radius turnouts. I isolated those pukos shown in the link I posted earlier with nail polish. After this I grinded the tops of those pukos with a small flat head screwdriver to get the nail polish off from the tops of the pukos. Now it works with older rolling stock without problems ThumpUp . I'm glad we have this wonderful forum so we learn things from each other. I would not never ever figure this pukos isolating thing with clear nail polish without this forum! Smile

Cheers,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline mike c  
#9 Posted : 22 October 2014 01:01:07(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
A number of companies designed their wheel flanges to suit the norms used in the 50s/60s by Trix and Fleischmann. This includes Hag and other companies. Hag's wheel flanges are wider than those used by Maerklin and the end result is that they protrude over the rail a little more than the Maerklin ones do. Some older Maerklin loks also have this slightly wider wheel surface, and this can result in the outer edge of the wheel coming into contact with the pukos over switch tracks.
Other models have the bottom of the bogie designed in such a way that the slider being pushed up by the pukos (in order to clear the track) causes the slider to come into contact with the underside of the bogie, resulting in a short circuit.
Both of these situations can cause a locomotive to stop when traversing a switch track at slow speed. At higher speeds, this situation most often leads to sparks and perhaps a momentary deceleration of the locomotive as it passes over that spot.
As far as the slider issue, I know a few people who have taken a small piece of cardboard or tape and covered the top of the slider or the slider arms to prevent shorts against the bogie housing. You can usually see the pits on the slider and on the bogie housing where the short occurred, so this is a giveaway that this is the issue.
As far as the over dimensioned wheels, the only way to avoid this is to replace the wheel sets with normal sized ones. It is not a question of changing the wheel spacing, since narrowing or enlarging the spacing will likely just cause other issues. If there is an issue with the wheel spacing, it will cause the locomotive to derail in switches (and not to spark/short out). Painting the puko with paint or nail polish will isolate it, but over prolonged use, the paint/nail polish will eventually rub off and the problem will return. Indications of this problem are small cavities in the track/wheels (where the short occurred) and/or blackening of the rail/wheels at the point of contact.

I know one or two modellers who took their Dremel drills and performed surgery on the two pukos closest to the rails on the switch tracks and that seemed to help. Before undertaking such a procedure, it may be best to experiment on one or two sections of track.

I hope that this information is of use to you.

Regards

Mike C
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