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Offline kweekalot  
#1 Posted : 01 October 2014 12:26:22(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,435
Location: Holland
Heard about this on the German FAM forum: GÜTZOLD went bankrupt on 23 September 2014.
The Gützold company had just restarted production eighteen months ago ... and now this. Crying

See screenshot from the German site 'insolvenzbekanntmachungen.de'

Marco


UserPostedImage
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Offline Goofy  
#2 Posted : 01 October 2014 13:36:33(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
I´m not suprise since theirs models is not so good quality.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline biedmatt  
#3 Posted : 01 October 2014 13:40:34(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Vollmer gone also, all in the last 6 months. Very sad. I hope the manufacturers figure out they will not be growing their customer base, this is a dead end industry.

Marklin, you already have us, you do not need to hold us captive with your proprietary systems. We are committed to Marklin. Now try to keep us happy and spending money.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline RayF  
#4 Posted : 01 October 2014 13:46:19(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Sad to see companies go under.

Let's hope Marklin can keep the market share they have. They must be doing something right to still be in the game.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline biedmatt  
#5 Posted : 01 October 2014 14:19:50(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Yes, they did manage to find two new investors willing to risk their money (Kingsbridge Capital and Simba-Dickie) when they went bust twice before. Yet the same management team is in control. LOL Recent history does not look favorably on Marklin.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by biedmatt
Offline kweekalot  
#6 Posted : 01 October 2014 14:22:39(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,435
Location: Holland
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I´m not suprise since theirs models is not so good quality.

Confused Glare Angry
The Gützold brand is very popular and loved by many mrr hobbyists and known for her good quality and fine details.
Most new items were sold out immediately.
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RayFH0Mark5
Offline RayF  
#7 Posted : 01 October 2014 14:28:11(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
Yes, they did manage to find two new investors willing to risk their money (Kingsbridge Capital and Simba-Dickie) when they went bust twice before. Yet the same management team is in control. LOL Recent history does not look favorably on Marklin.


Still, they came through it and are still there. It must mean something. This is what I meant, and I didn't mean to start a debate about how good or bad Marklin is.

All model rail manufacturers are in danger in today's world. It's an ever shrinking hobby. Let's hope enough of the manufacturers stay active so we don't all have to rely on old, second hand goods.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline kweekalot  
#8 Posted : 01 October 2014 15:07:15(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,435
Location: Holland
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post

...All model rail manufacturers are in danger in today's world. It's an ever shrinking hobby. Let's hope enough of the manufacturers stay active so we don't all have to rely on old, second hand goods.

Well, not only the manaufacturers are in danger in today's mrr world.

In Holland we had really a lot of mrr shops, but now in the last 2 - 3 years they vanish one by one, almost every month a mrr shop stops or goes bankrupt.

In my town (The Hague / Den Haag, the third largest city in Holland) we had 3 mrr shops but in October 2013 the official Marklin Store went bankrupt.
The 2 mrr shops that remain are having very hard times.
One shop has been around for more than 50 years and was one of the best mrr shops in Holland.
2 years ago they had 4 employees and on Friday and Saterday you had to stand in line waiting for your turn because it was so crowded with buying customers. But now they have only one employee left and even on Saturday it is very quiet....too quiet.
Soon in my town there will be no more mrr shops. Sad

And I still think it was very wrong that Marklin did nothing to save their Marklin Store in The Hague.
In fact they did the opposite, because the bills were not paid on time, Marklin repossessed all the stuff in the shore without notice.
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Offline RayF  
#9 Posted : 01 October 2014 15:22:18(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post

...All model rail manufacturers are in danger in today's world. It's an ever shrinking hobby. Let's hope enough of the manufacturers stay active so we don't all have to rely on old, second hand goods.

Well, not only the manaufacturers are in danger in today's mrr world.

In Holland we had really a lot of mrr shops, but now in the last 2 - 3 years they vanish one by one, almost every month a mrr shop stops or goes bankrupt.

In my town (The Hague / Den Haag, the third largest city in Holland) we had 3 mrr stops but in October 2013 the official Marklin Store went bankrupt.
The 2 mrr shops that remain are having very hard times.
One shop has been around for more than 50 years and was one of the best mrr shops in Holland.
2 years ago they had 4 employees and on Friday and Saterday you had to stand in line waiting for your turn because it was so crowded with buying customers. But now they have only one employee left and even on Saturday it is very quiet....too quiet.
Soon in my town there will be no more mrr shops. Sad

And I still think it was very wrong that Marklin did nothing to save their Marklin Store in The Hague.
In fact they did the opposite, because the bills were not paid on time, Marklin repossessed all the stuff in the shore without notice.


That's a very sad story, Marco.

Unfortunately you are not alone in The Netherlands. Here in Gibraltar there were several model train shops up to the 1970s. There was even a Marklin dealer. One by one they closed, so there is now no dealer of any Model railway product at all.

When I could no longer obtain Marklin locally I started buying Marklin in the UK. Up to 5 years ago, when my son was a student, there were still many Marklin dealers, and you could find one in virtually every city. Today there is not a single Marklin dealer in London, and any model shops that remain tend to only stock Hornby. Very specialised model train shops still exist, but they are also disappearing fast, and almost none stock Marklin.

The future is not very rosy for our hobby!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline biedmatt  
#10 Posted : 01 October 2014 15:28:29(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
I agree Ray. That they are still here and can find investors means their position in the market is stronger than the average manufacturer. I just do not understand why the reins are still in the hands of people who went bust twice before. Perhaps they are here in spite of themselves and not due to any direction management has taken the company.

Edit: "They" in this post refers to Marklin

Edited by user 01 October 2014 19:39:16(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by biedmatt
Offline shannon  
#11 Posted : 01 October 2014 16:12:00(UTC)
shannon


Joined: 27/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 337
Location: Taipei,
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I´m not suprise since theirs models is not so good quality.


Gutzold makes the super highly detailed steamer that i have never seen on the other products of manufacturers except for brass cars.

For example, BR03.10 you can see all of correct details at this locomotive that Marklin intends to simplify or neglect.

http://www.bbs.cmratw.or...=2623&extra=page%3D2


another great masterpiece BR98.002

http://www.bbs.cmratw.or...=2669&extra=page%3D1






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Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 01 October 2014 16:39:30(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
I just do not understand why the reins are still in the hands of people who went bust twice before.
Bust three times? Which company are you writing about?
Märklin filed for insolvency once. For Gützold it's the second time (the first insolvency for the current owners and the current CEO).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline MikeR  
#13 Posted : 01 October 2014 18:25:21(UTC)
MikeR

United States   
Joined: 26/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 263
Location: Denver
I think that the stores have been badly affected by the ability we have to source our trains on the Internet. There has also been a significant increase in the trade of used trains via sites such as ebay. 10 or 20 years ago we were not able to buy new and used trains as easily as we can now. We had to use our local specialist MRR store. I wonder how the major internet train retailers are faring? I think that they must also be feeling the pressure as we are easily able to compare prices and buy the same item at the lowest price from alternative sites.

I am not sure that this is good for the hobby as there may have been more new customers who were attracted to our hobby because they saw the trains in the window of a local retailer. Now the trains are increasingly only seen at shows and when someone explicitly looks on the Internet.

MRR stores were also a source of expertise and knowledge. These have now been replaced with sites such as this one which cater for our needs and for the sharing of knowledge. It is now much easier than before to get answers to any MRR related question. Thanks Juhan!! BigGrin.

This change in the environment must also be impacting the manufacturers and those that do not adjust there marketing plans will be suffering the most. I am not sure whether Marklin has really appreciated how significant a change the Internet has produced.
Mike
Digital - C track with CS2 and Railroad&Co TrainController; feedback using LocoIO via a Locobuffer
Analog - M track with solid centre rail (after C track layout is complete)
Collect all Eras - especially Crocodiles
Member of ETE
Previously a member of the Marklin Modellers' Group Johannesburg
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Offline Goofy  
#14 Posted : 01 October 2014 18:32:26(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Plastic side rods...plastic wheels...plastic body...
Good quality!?
Really??? Confused
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Goofy  
#15 Posted : 01 October 2014 18:34:39(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
Vollmer gone also



Not really...Viessmann did bought Vollmer company.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Goofy  
#16 Posted : 01 October 2014 18:38:21(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I´m not suprise since theirs models is not so good quality.

Confused Glare Angry
The Gützold brand is very popular and loved by many mrr hobbyists and known for her good quality and fine details.
Most new items were sold out immediately.


But in how many copies...? Huh

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline biedmatt  
#17 Posted : 01 October 2014 19:32:30(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Bust three times? Which company are you writing about?
Märklin filed for insolvency once. For Gützold it's the second time (the first insolvency for the current owners and the current CEO).


Tom, note I said bust, not bankrupt. Yes, I know the family sold before they needed to declare bankruptcy. But Kingsbridge paid the family about $30 million and another $70 million to the family's creditors. Not what any business professor would call a properly managed company. We Yankees would have shown management the door and sacked them the first time. To offer this management team a second time to run the company into the ground (Kingsbridge's declared bankruptcy) is just insane. As I have said before, Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I guess family Sieber will let them do it a third time.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by biedmatt
Offline Goofy  
#18 Posted : 01 October 2014 20:04:49(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
I did check in Gutzold homepage.
WTF!?
Only DR models and plastic all the way.
It´s not popular to use DR models and big difference to offer trainmodels to choise from what DB can do.
Roco and Fleischmann do also produce and sell DR models.
Compititiors is the problems for Gutzold company too.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline biedmatt  
#19 Posted : 01 October 2014 21:11:32(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
Vollmer gone also



Not really...Viessmann did bought Vollmer company.



Agreed, It appears Vollmer's product line will continue with Viessmann, but Vollmer as a company is gone and liquidated.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline H0  
#20 Posted : 01 October 2014 21:43:55(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
It appears Vollmer's product line will continue with Viessmann, but Vollmer as a company is gone and liquidated.
Liquidation does not say they were in financial trouble.

It seems Porsche made a very good offer for their ground.
Viessmann bought their moulds.

I presume the former owners of the Vollmer company now have a pile of money.

This has happened to several old companies: founded at the outskirts of big cities decades ago, they now find that their ground is worth fortune.
Sometimes such companies move to a new place, sometimes they close - bad for the workers, good for the owners.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#21 Posted : 01 October 2014 21:46:22(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
Vollmer gone also.....


I do believe that Vollmer have been purchased by Viessmann (a last minute deal), so all may not be lost!

(Sorry, I didn't read all the way to the bottom of the thread before posting this)
Offline biedmatt  
#22 Posted : 01 October 2014 22:10:36(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Liquidation does not say they were in financial trouble.

It seems Porsche made a very good offer for their ground.
Viessmann bought their moulds.

I presume the former owners of the Vollmer company now have a pile of money.

This has happened to several old companies: founded at the outskirts of big cities decades ago, they now find that their ground is worth fortune.
Sometimes such companies move to a new place, sometimes they close - bad for the workers, good for the owners.


I did not say Vollmer was in financial trouble, just that they had closed and sold off (liquidated) their assets. Miss Vollmer apparently saw the writing on the walls and decided to leave MRR before financial woes had struck. I believe she was looking for a buyer, but none was found for all the assets. Veismann bought the molds, Porsche the building and everything else liquidated in an auction Marco linked in another post. I hope she bought a nice retirement home in the Carribean with some of the money she received. A good business man knows to get out before you're broke. She probably made a good business decision. I hope the employees found a new position quickly.

Edit: Companies going bankrupt, some leaving the industry before they go bust, I bet others in the industry are looking closely at their situations and projected future markets and considering the very decision Miss Vollmer made. I imagine closures will only accelerate in the future. All very sad and unfortunate, but the market has changed. Video has provided virtual worlds like our model railroads. It is cheaper and easier than setting up a layout. You loose the tangleble part of handling and building stuff, but that apparently does not matter to kids today. Their first play toy was probably a child's video game that allowed mom and dad to leave them in front of the TV. It is all they know.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#23 Posted : 02 October 2014 00:20:18(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Bust three times? Which company are you writing about?
Märklin filed for insolvency once. For Gützold it's the second time (the first insolvency for the current owners and the current CEO).


Tom, note I said bust, not bankrupt. Yes, I know the family sold before they needed to declare bankruptcy. But Kingsbridge paid the family about $30 million and another $70 million to the family's creditors. Not what any business professor would call a properly managed company. We Yankees would have shown management the door and sacked them the first time. To offer this management team a second time to run the company into the ground (Kingsbridge's declared bankruptcy) is just insane. As I have said before, Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I guess family Sieber will let them do it a third time.


My understanding is that Marklin were nowhere near going broke when Kingsbridge became the owners, rather Kingsbridge approached Marklins bank claiming they could do a better job of producing a greater profit, and so the bank forced the family out. Then once Kingsbridge got in all the profit disappeared into the Kingsbridge coffers, until the bank would no longer support them and forced the bankruptcy. Then with Herr Pluta in charge Marklin was profitable again immediately as the profits were no longer disappearing into Kingsbridge.

The problem wasn't the management or the Marklin family, it was Kingsbridge the whole way, who saw an opportunity to make a huge profit only to be scuttled by a bank that wouldn't have truck with their business style. I got this information from an inside source who was in a position to know, and had no axe to grind with either party.

I don't believe the Sieber family will allow the company to go into receivership unless the world financial state makes the business unviable, and by then Marklin will probably be the only MRR manufacturer left ...
Offline biedmatt  
#24 Posted : 02 October 2014 01:04:16(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
I suggest you do some searching around the web. More than one financial site states Marklin had a 55 million euro debt to creditors, mostly the banking industry. They also did not have a plan in place to turn the debt around. Kingsbridge didn't run Marklin into debt, Marklin management did.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline H0  
#25 Posted : 02 October 2014 08:49:55(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
This thread is about the 2014 Gützold insolvency.

Here's a thread about the 2009 Märklin insolvency, also covering the Kingsbridge and pre-Kingsbridge era:
https://www.marklin-user...y-Updates.aspx#post12559
I will not comment Märklin's insolvency in this thread.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline sjlauritsen  
#26 Posted : 02 October 2014 12:20:15(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
I think the majority of the model train stores goes away because customers can buy their stuff from the internet. It is much easier and convenient. The same goes for book stores, music stores etc. Those types of stores where you do not actually need to try the stuff before you buy it.

I myself prefer to try the models before I buy them, just because I want to make sure the technique is to my liking. To me the buying experience is important, and I like it to be something special. I have one store about an hour away that I like to go to. There is also a local store in my town, but I like the other store better.

When it comes to landscape stuff, buildings etc. I just order from whoever is the cheapest. I have a few online-stores that gets the majority of my orders. With MSL's new free shipping to Denmark, they are a clear winner.

It is a shame that the model train stores goes away, but I also think it is unavoidable. Also do not underestimate the power of Youtube and similar services. People do get into model trains from watching videos on Youtube. Smile Especially the young audience.
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
Offline biedmatt  
#27 Posted : 02 October 2014 13:42:30(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
This thread is about the 2014 Gützold insolvency.

I will not comment Märklin's insolvency in this thread.


It is my fault this thread went off the tracks. I apologize to all involved.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline sjlauritsen  
#28 Posted : 02 October 2014 16:25:54(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
With regards to Gützold. I cannot remember I have seen any new models from them for a long time. The East German V60 they had was actually a nice model, although with yellow-LEDs. Also some of the other DR models were quite nice. But PIKO have kind of taken over that market with their very fine Expert-line.
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
Offline I_love_Marklin_37538  
#29 Posted : 06 October 2014 23:20:51(UTC)
I_love_Marklin_37538


Joined: 19/09/2008(UTC)
Posts: 951
Location: ,
Maybe Marklin should buy the moulds from Gutzold and then we could be potentially seeing DR models including the Saxon XVIIIH and XXHV steam engines
Offline H0  
#30 Posted : 07 October 2014 08:13:06(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
It seems it's cash-flow insolvency, hopefully not bankruptcy (accounting insolvency). I think the Gützold moulds are not for sale now. Märklin didn't buy them when they were offered for sale months ago.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Frankenbahner  
#31 Posted : 09 October 2014 09:10:11(UTC)
Frankenbahner


Joined: 15/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 625
Location: Nuremberg, Bavaria
On the other side, firms like Piko do good business. Not only because they offer reasonable quality for a good price, but especially because they see what the market demands: modern era rolling stock.

Look at Fleischmann and Märklin, how they still concentrate too much on steam era. A BR 41 as new tooling. A new BR 03 as new tooling. But where are modern EMUs and DMUs as new tooling? Sorry, but steam locos pulling dark green coaches are a thing of the past, nothing to attract new, young custromers...

Regards,
Florian
H0 3-rail AC with DCC, MM and mfx, 2-rail DC streetcars, and N gauge
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Offline RayF  
#32 Posted : 09 October 2014 09:32:59(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
And yet modern trains are so boring!

Maybe this is why there is less interest in trains among the young. The fascination of steam locos was what kids used to dream about, but today's EMUs and DMUs just look like a row of coaches. The few locos you do see tend to be in either flashy advertising colours or just plain boring red.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline H0  
#33 Posted : 09 October 2014 10:10:57(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Frankenbahner Go to Quoted Post
Look at Fleischmann and Märklin, how they still concentrate too much on steam era.
With respect to Fleischmann, this is not a bug but a feature. Fleischmann focuses the old eras in the RoFl company while Roco focuses modern stuff.
The new Fleischmann 141 uses a Roco frame.
The new Roco 101 uses a Fleischmann frame.

Märklin made many models of BR 101 and BR 120 - but where are the coaches to go with them?

Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
And yet modern trains are so boring!
My main interest in eras V and VI are freight trains. Multi-current locos and privatisations led to a rich variety of loco types on German tracks.
Märklin seized their chance and offered many livery variations of the TRAXX locos.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline sjlauritsen  
#34 Posted : 09 October 2014 16:22:32(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
And yet modern trains are so boring!

You know, that's funny. I think the steam era is boring... Cool It's a personal preference.

I too think that the manufacturers focus too much on era III and IV. I would love to see some new era V and VI products - especially train sets/packages.

Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
Offline Goofy  
#35 Posted : 11 October 2014 16:30:51(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Even Brawa do make DR models and they are far better quality than Gutzold.
The more compititors,the harder for Gutzold to fighting.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline kweekalot  
#36 Posted : 11 October 2014 19:55:09(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,435
Location: Holland
Anders, maybe you don't like Gützold models, but that doesn't mean that Gutzold models are of poor quality, isn't it ?!
So can you please stop bashing the Gützold brand ?
Even without your constant negativism, Gützold is already in stormy weather.

I found this message of 5 October on the Gützold Facebook page:

Liebe Modellbahnfreunde und Fans der Traditionsmarke Gützold,
wir freuen uns Ihnen mitteilen zu dürfen, dass die Marke Gützold auch in Zukunft, zunächst unter der Aufsicht des vorläufigen Insolvenzverwalters, fortbestehen wird. Wir werden Sie liebe Modelleisenbahnfreunde hier auf unserer Facebook-Fanseite als auch auf der Homepage in Kürze zum aktuellen Stand natürlich auf dem laufenden halten. Wir hoffen natürlich auch, dass Sie liebe Modelleisenbahnfreunde auch in Zukunft zu unseren treuen Fans & Kunden gehören und können bereits schon jetzt versichern, sehr intensiv an der Neuausrichtung, dies betrifft u.a. die Produktlinie(n), an qualitativ erstklassigen Modellen uvm. arbeiten. Bitte gedulden Sie sich ein wenig, es benötigt einige Zeit unsere Traditionsmarke neu aufzustellen, aber auch Ihre Geduld wird belohnt werden. Lassen Sie sich überraschen... Herzliche Grüße, Ihre Gützold Modellbau GmbH, Zwickau
.


My quick translation (maybe not 100% perfect):

Dear mrr friends and fans of the traditional brand Gützold,
we are pleased to inform you that the Gützold brand shall continue to exist in the future, for the time being under the supervision of a insolvency administrator. We will keep you up to date on the current status on our Facebook fan page as well on our website.
Of course we hope that we can count you in as one of our loyal fans and customers and we can already assure you that we work hard on reorganization, this concerns - among other things - our product line(s) and our first-class high quality models.
Please be patient, it takes some time to re-establish our tradition Brand, but your patience will be rewarded. Let us surprise you ...
Kind regards,
Gützold Modellbau GmbH, Zwickau
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Offline H0  
#37 Posted : 11 October 2014 20:24:54(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I´m not suprise since theirs models is not so good quality.
All my Gützold locos are good runners with good decoders and nice details.
OK, there is only one - but I'll buy more Gützold locos if I find something interesting (I prefer DB and buy very little DR).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Goofy  
#38 Posted : 12 October 2014 09:10:34(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Anders, maybe you don't like Gützold models, but that doesn't mean that Gutzold models are of poor quality, isn't it ?!
So can you please stop bashing the Gützold brand ?
Even without your constant negativism, Gützold is already in stormy weather.


My quick translation (maybe not 100% perfect):

Dear mrr friends and fans of the traditional brand Gützold,
we are pleased to inform you that the Gützold brand shall continue to exist in the future, for the time being under the supervision of a insolvency administrator. We will keep you up to date on the current status on our Facebook fan page as well on our website.
Of course we hope that we can count you in as one of our loyal fans and customers and we can already assure you that we work hard on reorganization, this concerns - among other things - our product line(s) and our first-class high quality models.
Please be patient, it takes some time to re-establish our tradition Brand, but your patience will be rewarded. Let us surprise you ...
Kind regards,
Gützold Modellbau GmbH, Zwickau


It´s second time Gutzold do have problem with economy,since it´s all about bad selling with theirs products.
Mostley of the models are building in plastic details.
They don´t have good quality to compare with other compititors.
Even customer did had problems with criticize about bad quality in Gutzold products.
I have seen models in the shops and know how they works.
I wouldn´t buying theirs models.
I save my money.
That´s way trainmodels manefacture do have problems too.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Purellum  
#39 Posted : 12 October 2014 09:43:14(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Quote:
Even customer did had problems with criticize about bad quality in Gutzold products.


It doesn't look like you have those problems LOL

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
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Offline Goofy  
#40 Posted : 12 October 2014 09:57:23(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

Quote:
Even customer did had problems with criticize about bad quality in Gutzold products.


It doesn't look like you have those problems LOL

Per.

Cool


Exactly!
That´s way i don´t buy crap models.
Because i have seen Gutzold models on the layout and watching.
So i´m not alone to understand.

LOL

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Purellum  
#41 Posted : 12 October 2014 10:02:06(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Quote:
So i´m not alone to understand.


I think you are LOL

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
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Offline kweekalot  
#42 Posted : 12 October 2014 10:05:41(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 3,435
Location: Holland
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
... It´s second time Gutzold do have problem with economy ...

I don't think that is true.
In 2012 the Gützold company ceased production but that was because Bernd Gützold wanted to retire and could not find a buyer to take over the company.

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Mostley of the models are building in plastic details.
They don´t have good quality to compare with other compititors.

Anders, maybe you prefer a loco with a metal body but a plastic body is not the same as poor quality, is it ?

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Even customer did had problems with criticize about bad quality in Gutzold products.

There are thousands of Gützold devotees and happy Gützold customers (but apparently you are not one of them. Smile)

Marco
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H0RayF
Offline steventrain  
#43 Posted : 12 October 2014 10:09:35(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
I have some friends of mine have Gutzold locomotives included BR03.

Friends said there is very happy with it and find it no issue.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline Goofy  
#44 Posted : 12 October 2014 10:16:21(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Mostley of the models are building in plastic details.
They don´t have good quality to compare with other compititors.

Anders, maybe you prefer a loco with a metal body but a plastic body is not the same as poor quality, is it ?

Marco


See at my post nr:14

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Goofy  
#45 Posted : 12 October 2014 10:21:20(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post



Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Even customer did had problems with criticize about bad quality in Gutzold products.

There are thousands of Gützold devotees and happy Gützold customers (but apparently you are not one of them. Smile)

Marco


Stockist knows the problem when Gutzold products don´t sell so good.
Customer knows about problems with Gutzold products.
I have seen models under action and wouldn´t buying them.
I save my money.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Purellum  
#46 Posted : 12 October 2014 10:34:20(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Quote:
There are thousands of Gützold devotees and happy Gützold customers (but apparently you are not one of them. Smile)


To me it looks like someone is not happy with anything at the moment!

Not really related to Gützold; but do you know that statistically, 6 out of 7 dwarves aren't happy?

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline Goofy  
#47 Posted : 12 October 2014 10:46:48(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

Quote:
There are thousands of Gützold devotees and happy Gützold customers (but apparently you are not one of them. Smile)


To me it looks like someone is not happy with anything at the moment!

Not really related to Gützold; but do you know that statistically, 6 out of 7 dwarves aren't happy?

Per.

Cool


What has dwarves to do with Gutzold as compare?
We are writing about Gutzold as bankrupt and try to figure out why...
As i see,it has to do about competitors and bad sell with own products.
I believe Gutzold is not holding for longer time...

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Purellum  
#48 Posted : 12 October 2014 11:07:38(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Quote:
We are writing about Gutzold as bankrupt and try to figure out why...


We know why. Matthias Richter died.

Gützold is not bankrupt, they just have to rearrange the business.

They still have a big market of happy customers.

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline Jay  
#49 Posted : 13 October 2014 17:55:31(UTC)
Jay

South Africa   
Joined: 01/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 303
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Hi all,
could somebody please point me to a supplier of Gutzold 3 rail locos.
I'm not really particular with country of origin,just love running trains.
Many thanks
Jay
Offline hxmiesa  
#50 Posted : 31 October 2014 11:03:29(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
Video has provided virtual worlds like our model railroads. It is cheaper and easier than setting up a layout. You loose the tangleble part of handling and building stuff, but that apparently does not matter to kids today. Their first play toy was probably a child's video game that allowed mom and dad to leave them in front of the TV. It is all they know.

Bingo!
It´s a very difficult uphill battle. As a responsable father and a creative person, I´ve always tried to pass that on to my two daughters (9 and 12 yo); but if they dont get the digital stuff at home, they long even more for it, when visiting others.
My oldest daughter was the last one in her class to get a smartphone, but she got one as a 10-yo. -Almost 2 years later than the first ones of her class. She was NOT amused of having to wait for "such a long time". <sigh>
She basically doesnt do ANYthing else than what can be achieved using some kind of electronic device. (except for the activities that we -her parents- INSIST that she does)
-Luckily the other daughter is quite creative with her hands (and mind)! -But it is quite clear to me -watching all of their friends- that creativity has basically died out among the youth.

HOW can there even BE a future for wide-spread model railroading¿? Personally I think there cant be one! As collectors and active model railroaders, WE are probably the last ones. -At least in any form that we are used to think of it in.

For the VERY FEW people who will still want to model the past in real miniature (instead of the perfect and involving cyber-reality soon to be had) will prabably be able to 3D print anything they need. Just give it a few years, and you´ll see!
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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