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Offline PMPeter  
#1 Posted : 30 September 2014 04:48:04(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
As per another thread that I started about TrainController, I am evaluating various software and have now been going through the Rocrail setup. I have it communicating with my CS2, can control locomotives and can switch the turnouts. However, when it comes to single gate items such as a decoupler I am stuck. As far as I can tell from the help I can setup two decouplers for one K83 decoder address with one assigned for Green activation and the other fro Red (same as for the CS2).

However, when I try to activate either, nothing happens. If I uncheck the Single Gate both decouplers activate one after the other.

The Rocrail addressing example shows that I should get 2 commands - one for "turnout" followed by "straight". I only get "straight".

Any idea what I am doing wrong?

Cheers
Peter

Offline French_Fabrice  
#2 Posted : 30 September 2014 08:32:37(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,475
Location: Lyon, France
Hi Peter

There is no special difficulty to set single gate devices...in my opinion...

Here is an example of a decoupler under rocrail, wired on "59 Green":
UserPostedImage

Cheers
Fabrice
Offline PMPeter  
#3 Posted : 30 September 2014 17:00:55(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
Thanks Fabrice.

This is what I have in my addressing for my address 7 except I have not checked off the Switch Time as you have done. I will try that this evening and see if that works.
Offline PMPeter  
#4 Posted : 30 September 2014 17:11:43(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
Fabrice,

As per the Rocrail site information for decouplers I am supposed to get these commands when I try to activate a decoupler:

OSwitch 0519 Switch [dc1] will be set to [straight]
OVirtual 0179 turnout 0139 3 straight fada=1108 pada=0555 addr=139 port=3 gate=0 dir=0 action=0
OSwitch 0519 Switch [dc1] will be set to [turnout]
OVirtual 0179 turnout 0139 3 turnout fada=1108 pada=0555 addr=139 port=3 gate=0 dir=0 action=1

I do not get the [turnout] command only the [straight] command. Do I have to set up something in the General tab of the decoupler Properties?

Peter
Offline French_Fabrice  
#5 Posted : 30 September 2014 19:36:25(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,475
Location: Lyon, France
Peter,

....Strange ???

Here is my config (General tab) for Decoupler9
UserPostedImage

The other important config part is already posted in reply #2.

Here is also the output of the console when I click on d9 icon

20140930.184947.963 r9999c cmdr04BF OSwitch 1060 Switch [d9] will be set to [straight,1,1]
20140930.184947.963 r9999c cmdr04BF OMCS2 0309 Switch 59 (mm) to straight
20140930.184947.964 r9999I tid0x06C OSwitch 0790 Flip thread for "d9" started.
20140930.184948.164 r9999c tid0x06C OSwitch 1060 Switch [d9] will be set to [turnout,1,1]
20140930.184948.165 r9999c tid0x06C OMCS2 0302 Switch 59 (mm) to turnout
20140930.184948.165 r9999I tid0x06C OSwitch 0800 Flip thread for "d9" ended.

OMCS2 means the output to my Central Station already configured.
My version of Rocrail has been build on 15-may-2014; I've not updated it since that time.

A question: Do you have a Central Station or Ecos really plugged and configured to be used with rocrail, or are you using only the "virtual" command station ? (it may explain some differences, but unsure)

Cheers
fabrice
Offline PMPeter  
#6 Posted : 30 September 2014 20:05:58(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
Hi Fabrice,

I am actually connected to the CS2 and can power it on and off, run trains, and switch turnouts successfully from Rocrail through the CS2.

The only problem so far is the single gate devices and I will incorporate some of your General and Switch Time settings this evening and see if it makes a difference.

As stated before I know I am communicating to the correct devices since if I uncheck the Single Gate function, the decouplers both operate in sequence and turn red on the track plan.

Peter
Offline French_Fabrice  
#7 Posted : 30 September 2014 21:07:44(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,475
Location: Lyon, France
Peter,

I've just added 5 decouplers which were missing in my rocrail plan (33G, 33R, 34G, 35G and 35R - G=green, R=red with motorola protocol)
While doing it and testing them one after each other, I've forgotten to add a switch time to one of the decouplers...and the result was it didn't run well !
If you don't do it, then when you click on the decoupler icon, nothing happens, and if you click again on the icon then the decoupler runs...

My advice for using decouplers with single gate is :
1) check the switch time option
2) fill the switch time value with a non zero value (for instance 250 or 300 ms), and it will do the trick

As a general rule, I usually set all my switches to have an explicit switch time value...so I didn't encounter such a behavior before !

Hope it will be ok for you following this guideline...
Cheers
Fabrice
Offline PMPeter  
#8 Posted : 01 October 2014 05:16:34(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
Hi Fabrice,

I set switch time as per your recommendation and I get the following console output:

20:00:48 Switch 7 (mm) to straight
20:00:48 Switch [U7a] will be set to [straight,1,1]
20:00:43 Switch 7 (mm) to straight
20:00:43 Switch [U7b] will be set to [straight,1,0]
19:50:14 System GO

It still does not want to change state between turnout and straight and there is no movement of the decoupler. Interestingly enough it seems to want to switch both the red and green decouplers U7a and U7b even though I have Single Gate checked.

All the settings are identical to yours aside from the decoupler address.

I have read on the Rocrail forum site that for a K83 decoder the single gate function does not work and you lose the second output. This doesn't seem correct, but appears to be what I am experiencing. As soon as I remove the Single Gate check both decouplers work in sequence. Not what I want.

What decoder are you using?

Cheers
Peter
Offline PMPeter  
#9 Posted : 01 October 2014 05:30:47(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
Here are the General and Properties screenshots:

Gen

Prop


Compared to your Properties mine has extra Red Green selections by the Single Gate.
Offline French_Fabrice  
#10 Posted : 01 October 2014 08:13:41(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,475
Location: Lyon, France
Hi Peter,

1) the decoders I'm using to drive the decouplers are Viessmann 5211;
2) the only minor difference I see in your screenshots compared to mine is in "General", Accessory#; yours is 0, mine is 1...but I'm not confident it will change something

I think your version of Rocrail is newer than me... Don't know if a change has set a bug ???

I suggest you to post a query on Rocrail forum, because your problem is beyond my skills.

As a last thing, may I ask you to post a shot of Rocrail properties, Automatic tab ?

Sorry not to have found an applicable answer...
Cheers
fabrice
Offline PMPeter  
#11 Posted : 01 October 2014 17:21:32(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
Thanks for all your help Fabrice. Very much appreciated.

Yes I had tried the Accessory setting at 1 and it made no difference.

I will try an uncoupler on my Viessmann decoder and see if that makes any difference and will also post the question on the Rocrail site.

There is obviously a difference between your May Rocrail build and my 27/09/14 build since the Properties panel has the extra Red and Green selection buttons.

Cheers et Merci!
Peter

Edited by user 03 October 2014 05:04:50(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline PMPeter  
#12 Posted : 02 October 2014 04:14:52(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
Hi Fabrice,

As requested here is the screenshot of the Rocrail Properties Automatic Tab.

Cheers
Peter

Prop
Offline French_Fabrice  
#13 Posted : 02 October 2014 13:33:53(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,475
Location: Lyon, France
Hi Peter,
Thank you for posting your settings...but I don't see something noticeable which tilts my mind...

Yesterday, I've done 2 tests:

1) Install the latest version of rocrail under WinXp into a Virtual machine, and set a pair of decoupler on same address, each decoupler using a different gate
Result: same behavior as yours, i.e. the single gate feature doesn't work as in my linux setting with version dated 15-May-2014

2) Install the latest version of rocrail under my linux config; compiled the sources, then run it on my real layout plan.
Result: same behavior as yours, i.e. the single gate feature doesn't work as in my linux setting with version dated 15-May-2014
-> Reverted to the 15-May version, and all is fine now.

To be honest, I didn't activate the CS2 during the tests, so I'm not 100% sure the decoupler hasn't run as expected. But the interactive behavior has changed (the icon doesn't change color anymore when clicking on it), and the log file shows the same output as yours, so I've concluded it was wrong.

I've seen your post on rocrail forum. If you don't get an answer within a reasonable time, I may add my experience to your post.

Cheers
Fabrice

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Offline PMPeter  
#14 Posted : 02 October 2014 17:03:28(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
Thank you.

Certainly looks like a software bug introduced between May and now.
Offline French_Fabrice  
#15 Posted : 02 October 2014 22:13:04(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,475
Location: Lyon, France
Peter,

Good news, I think I found a solution (at least a workaround). Cool

1) Program your decoupler pair with single gate option for each decoupler, as expected.
for instance 33R is a decoupler set to be activated when pressing on "red" for a 200 ms time, and 33G is an other decoupler set to be activated when pressing on "green" for a 200 ms time.
2) In the interface tab of each decoupler, the default "type" is set to "output". Change this "type" to for instance "Analog" for each decoupler. I have tested it with "Servo", ""Motor" and "Light" and it provides the same behavior as "Analog" i.e. it runs !

That will do the trick !
Don't ask me why, certainly a bug when using the output ?, or an undocumented feature ???

What is making me think it's a bug, is in the console output you get some unregistered (see bold trace lines) event in the OModel.

20141002.215940.765 r9999c 00000398 OMCS2 0281 System GO
20141002.215940.775 r9999I cmdr00F3 OModel 2118 informing 0 listeners of a system event name=sys val=go...
------------ clicking on 33g ----------
20141002.220000.674 r9999c cmdr00F3 OSwitch 1065 Switch [33g] will be set to [straight,1,1]
20141002.220000.684 r9999c 00000398 OMCS2 0333 Switch 33 (mm) to straight
20141002.220000.684 r9999I cmdr00F3 OModel 3984 unregistered event: co []0:0:33 uidname=[]
20141002.220000.684 r9999I tid0x00F OSwitch 0795 Flip thread for "33g" started.
20141002.220000.884 r9999c tid0x00F OSwitch 1065 Switch [33g] will be set to [turnout,1,1]
20141002.220000.884 r9999c 0000045C OMCS2 0326 Switch 33 (mm) to turnout
20141002.220000.884 r9999I tid0x00F OModel 3984 unregistered event: co []0:0:33 uidname=[]
20141002.220000.884 r9999I tid0x00F OSwitch 0805 Flip thread for "33g" ended.
------------ clicking on 33r ----------
20141002.220107.810 r9999c cmdr00F3 OSwitch 1065 Switch [33r] will be set to [straight,1,0]
20141002.220107.810 r9999c 00000398 OMCS2 0333 Switch 33 (mm) to straight
20141002.220107.820 r9999I cmdr00F3 OModel 3984 unregistered event: co []0:0:33 uidname=[]
20141002.220107.820 r9999I tid0x00F OSwitch 0795 Flip thread for "33r" started.
20141002.220108.020 r9999c tid0x00F OSwitch 1065 Switch [33r] will be set to [turnout,1,0]
20141002.220108.020 r9999c 000001D0 OMCS2 0326 Switch 33 (mm) to turnout
20141002.220108.020 r9999I tid0x00F OModel 3984 unregistered event: co []0:0:33 uidname=[]
20141002.220108.020 r9999I tid0x00F OSwitch 0805 Flip thread for "33r" ended.
20141002.220222.678 r9999c 00000398 OMCS2 0265 System STOP

Tested in the XP virtual machine, with real connection to the CS2.

So you may go further to test Rocrail...
Cheers
Fabrice
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Offline PMPeter  
#16 Posted : 03 October 2014 04:57:58(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
Thank you Fabrice. Yes it worked for me as well.

It does however, point out the danger of open source software. Something that works today may no longer work when you update it to a newer version weeks or months later. Obviously something changed between your May version and the current version. Who knows, it may end up changing back in a future build.

I really appreciate all the help you have given me on this and yes now I can move on to the next challenge of sensors and the S88.

Cheers
Peter

Offline French_Fabrice  
#17 Posted : 03 October 2014 19:22:42(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,475
Location: Lyon, France
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post

...
It does however, point out the danger of open source software.
...


Hi Peter

I totally disagree with you, but this is out of topic.

Just to prove you Open Source software is not so bad, the bug is fixed now, and it works as expected.
You may download build 8048 or later and it will run fine.

Have a nice week-end,
Fabrice
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Offline PMPeter  
#18 Posted : 03 October 2014 21:11:09(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
Yes I think you just made your point on open source software. The bug was fixed in a matter of days. Commercial purchased software would not have had the same rapid response to fix a bug.

Have a good weekend as well.

Cheers
Peter
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