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Offline rhfil  
#1 Posted : 23 September 2014 17:20:40(UTC)
rhfil

United States   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 422
Location: NEW HAMPSHIRE, Somersworth
I am new to HO trains and to Marklin. I recently purchased the 37981 steam locomotive and the 43983 wagon set. I hope to light the wagon set and control it through the engine. But the wagon set came with standard couplings(7203) and only one conducting coupling- part number unknown. It appears that I have to replace the 7203 couplings with conducting couplings but the only ones I can find come as part of wiring kits. Is it not possible to buy just the couplings themselves. Also, are the conducting and 7203 couplings supposed to be compatible? They do not seem to work together.
Offline Goofy  
#2 Posted : 23 September 2014 17:51:00(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
You mean wagon set 43984?
In this set it follows power feeder coupler,which you connect to the locomotivs tender by control switching wagon set lighting via digital function.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Renato  
#3 Posted : 23 September 2014 17:55:30(UTC)
Renato

Italy   
Joined: 19/03/2004(UTC)
Posts: 976
Location: Gorizia, Italy
Hi rhfil,

Welcome to the forum.

Sorry, I can not help you, but I am sure other members will do.

Cheers

Renato
Offline foumaro  
#4 Posted : 23 September 2014 18:37:55(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,420
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
The RTS 5910 couplers maybe do the job.
Offline rschaffr  
#5 Posted : 23 September 2014 18:49:20(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,176
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Check out the Marklin 72020 also. I believe they are really just re-branded RTS, but will work.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/IB), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline rhfil  
#6 Posted : 23 September 2014 19:33:55(UTC)
rhfil

United States   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 422
Location: NEW HAMPSHIRE, Somersworth
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
You mean wagon set 43984?
In this set it follows power feeder coupler,which you connect to the locomotivs tender by control switching wagon set lighting via digital function.

Yes, 43984, sorry. The problem is that the couplings that came with the wagons were all regular and not conducting. There was only one conducting coupler provided. I replaced the regular coupling on the first car with that and that car now lights but all the others are non-conducting. I need to get 8 conducting couplers but can not find the part number for them. The only way it seems that they are available is by getting car lighting kits - kind of expensive and wasteful. I do not understand why the set came with regular couplings. Or enough conducting couplings to enable me to have a wired set of cars.
Offline mike c  
#7 Posted : 23 September 2014 20:20:59(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
The 43984 Set comes with 7203 couplers. For electrical connections, the ones between the coaches should be type 7319, but you can also use the 72020/72021 which can be uncoupled. The instructions should provide instructions on how to connect the coaches if you are using a slider to power the lights or if you want to run the power from the tender of the locomotive (37981).

I believe that the locomotive should come with a 72021 type coupler at the rear of the tender. If you look at the photo of this ebay auction, you should see the single 72021 and the rigid 7319 couplers to connect the other coaches in the little accessory bag.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/M...&hash=item3ce7cacff5

If you bought the model from a dealer and the little bag was missing, you should contact the dealer that you purchased it from.
If you bought it on ebay or similar, contact the seller.

Regards

Mike C
Offline pab  
#8 Posted : 23 September 2014 21:38:45(UTC)
pab

Netherlands   
Joined: 03/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 2,752
I usely buy the 72021 conducting couplers from Märklin. That because I mostly need the added wires and contact plates. The set has two couplers. I would not advice the rigid 7319 type. It's always very unpleasant to uncouple the cars when needed. I believe the M 72021 couplers are in fact RTS couplers. I used RTS couplers in the past.
Offline rhfil  
#9 Posted : 23 September 2014 22:21:41(UTC)
rhfil

United States   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 422
Location: NEW HAMPSHIRE, Somersworth
The bag did come with the set but no instructions. I do not care for the idea of linking all of the cars together without being able to uncouple them. Apparently the coupling I want is the RTS5910 but I have not yet located a source for them in the U.S. I think it is ridiculous to buy the 72020 or 72021 sets when I do not need most of the stuff that comes with them. I will have to see if my Marklin distributor can help me out.


Offline franciscohg  
#10 Posted : 23 September 2014 23:43:07(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,266
Location: Patagonia
Hi, make a search for them on eBay.de
There are always lots on sale
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
Offline franciscohg  
#11 Posted : 23 September 2014 23:46:17(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,266
Location: Patagonia
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
Offline rschaffr  
#12 Posted : 24 September 2014 00:10:15(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,176
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Helmut's Hobbies (http://www.helmutshobbies.com/shop_ho_accessories2.htm) has RTS couplers. They say they are scaling back their business and focusing on repairs, so if you order some, get enough. They are getting harder to find.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/IB), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline rhfil  
#13 Posted : 24 September 2014 00:56:01(UTC)
rhfil

United States   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 422
Location: NEW HAMPSHIRE, Somersworth
I found them at Helmut. Hoping my Marklin distributor has a solution. They are $4.95 each from Helmut and around $11.00 for the 72020/72021 which have two of them, so might be about the same with shipping costs. I think the shipping costs from Germany would make the price even higher. I need at least eight of them for the entire set. Pretty pathetic of Marklin to not include them nor make them available separately. The two that I do have do not even work well together. And why are they not compatible with the standard coupler? Bad design.
Offline BrandonVA  
#14 Posted : 24 September 2014 19:15:25(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
As far as inclusion, some people like the closer gap between the cars caused by the drawbars. Personally, I agree with you, I have replaced current conducting drawbars with current conducting couplers on my big coach sets to ease handling.

I recently got Marklin 43194, which actually has current conducting couplers between the car sets from the factory, which is refreshing. Maybe this trend will continue in the future?

Things like this are always hard in the US....I keep a list of parts like this, then if I order something big from Germany (loco, large set of track, etc), I just throw it in the order. I always forget something though... :) Sometimes I have also found that with German eBay sellers, if they do not have a cost listed in their own item description and are using the eBay postage calculator, if you send them a message and ask for a cost, they will send you something much more reasonable.

-Brandon

Offline Agrawal  
#15 Posted : 10 October 2018 18:19:04(UTC)
Agrawal

India   
Joined: 31/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 14
Location: Telangana, Hyderabad
I bought Marklin set 42259.it just said cars can be fitted with 72020/21,7335 and 73400 .and 66672 but no further details ,no brochure or instructions about which car needs which light. No car product number given to get help about installation .unfortunately as usual Marklin did not reply .The dealer too has no idea. One of the baggage car can hv no light as neither 7335 nor 73400 fits in..There just no technical document or help from Marklin. Sad but true
Marklin for saving costs just not incorporating any literature.
If any member can tell n share as to type# of cars set consists ,carwise light number and installation procedure shall be obliged .
Offline Minok  
#16 Posted : 10 October 2018 19:44:33(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Looking up the parts a bit, for the 66672 one I found other cars that say they are prepared to install that interior lighting: " Alle Wagen vorbereitet zum Einbau der Trix Innenbeleuchtung 66672", so it sounds like this is a DC power based solution - which may mean its missing the rectifier/smoothing ciruits if running on AC analog track. For digital operations it would be the same other than how the power is picked up off of the track (2 wheels separate, vs center slider/coupler and wheels).

73400 / 73401 differ in lighting color: the 00 is lower/yellower for older epochs, and 01 is whiter light for modern cars. Short cars take one, longer UIC cars require two stuck together. This doesn't include any power pickup, which has to be arranged seperately.

7335 is a short car variant that appears to include power pickup parts (slider and wheel pickups), not clear if its designed to work with current conducting couplers; it looks like it is a complete self contained solution for one car.

72020 is the current conduction coupler that connects two cars by short coupler and conducts the center rail/power from car to car (thus not needing a pickup shoe on every car). This would be used with the 73400 to send power from car to car.

72021 is the current conduction coupler that also includes wheel (ground) pickup and some short wiring.

I've not installed these before, but I'd think you need
*) one 73400 per car (the lights),
*) the center slider pickup for one car (not sure the part # but it seems its one of 73404, 73405, 73406 depending on how your wheelset is on the car vs pivot point, etc) - unless you are conducting the power from the locomotive (a separate challenge)
*) For <n> cars, you would need <n-1> 72021 kits to conduct the power between all of the cars
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline Nigel Packer  
#17 Posted : 10 October 2018 21:32:10(UTC)
Nigel Packer

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 682
Location: Cheshire, UK
Originally Posted by: Agrawal Go to Quoted Post
I bought Marklin set 42259.it just said cars can be fitted with 72020/21,7335 and 73400 .and 66672 but no further details ,no brochure or instructions about which car needs which light. No car product number given to get help about installation .unfortunately as usual Marklin did not reply .The dealer too has no idea. One of the baggage car can hv no light as neither 7335 nor 73400 fits in..There just no technical document or help from Marklin. Sad but true
Marklin for saving costs just not incorporating any literature.
If any member can tell n share as to type# of cars set consists ,carwise light number and installation procedure shall be obliged .



The 42259 is a nice set, but it is not very well set up for the fitting of lighting sets. It is a mixture of Märklin and Trix designs of coaches, and they have very different support for interior lighting.

I have fitted lighting to my set, and I used 4x73400 lighting sets, 2x7332 lighting sets, and 1xTams WIB-31 lighting set! The Märklin 7332 is the set for the Trix coaches, but it is no longer in production, though you can often find these on eBay Germany. 66672 is similar to the 7332, but is often not easy to find either.

You should also consider using the TrainTech lighting units, as discussed quite a lot on this forum. They work well, and are very easy to fit to all the different coaches.

Good luck with lighting this set!

Nigel
Märklin collector since age 5.
H0 Collection from 1935 to today.
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#18 Posted : 10 October 2018 22:23:33(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: rhfil Go to Quoted Post
I am new to HO trains and to Marklin. I recently purchased the 37981 steam locomotive and the 43983 wagon set. I hope to light the wagon set and control it through the engine. But the wagon set came with standard couplings(7203) and only one conducting coupling- part number unknown. It appears that I have to replace the 7203 couplings with conducting couplings but the only ones I can find come as part of wiring kits. Is it not possible to buy just the couplings themselves. Also, are the conducting and 7203 couplings supposed to be compatible? They do not seem to work together.

Hl Rhfil

The loco has indeed a coupler pocket wired for current conducting couplers
To light your set you must (IMO):
- check that thr coupler is current conducting there should be a small horizontal copper tongue protruding inside the loco coupler.
- you must arrange to couple an illuminated wagon set with current-conducting couplers and LEDs (for low consumption)
You should avoid using lamps because of the higher current.

I cannot find you 43983 wagon set neither on Märklin web nor on the internet.
Marklin sells current conducting couplers with reference 7319 and LED lighting under ref. 73401
If you want only the current conducting coupler a well known one is the RTS one but the price will only be slightly reduced.
You must also make sure your coupler pocket is wired (Usually a small piece of brass-looking band goes to the wagon body plate

I hope this helps

Welcome to the forum

Cheers

Jean
Offline Torstein  
#19 Posted : 11 October 2018 15:37:14(UTC)
Torstein

Norway   
Joined: 27/03/2010(UTC)
Posts: 338
Location: Norway
Hi
I have about 30 lighted passenger wagons but have never used the expensive Marklin stuff.

I bay RTS couplings in Ebay -(lot 10 or 20) at a cheap price.

Installation in wagon: Use a thin wire(not copper) and twin around the copperplate on the coupling and put it in the Nem pocket. Drill a 1 mm hole on one side( in front of the toilet) and adjust the wire so the pocket move freely. Use a led strip and solder on a rectifier and a 1K resistance. Connect the wire from the ground spring. If you want you can take it apart- there is only a 1 mm hole in the wagon who nobody see. It does not matter if the wagon is prepared for interior light or not as long it have a Nem pocket.

Installation in locomotive: For passenger loc i use the same method for the Nem pocket. As a relay I use ESU 51963 - one wire from the red wire from pickup shoe and two wires from decoder and one to the coupling. That means you can turn the light on/off on all the wagons with a function button on the digital controller.

With this method have my trains run perfect for many years.

I mean it is not necessary to bay Marklins expensive and sometimes clumsy lightning - but sure if you like plug and play items - it is up to you.

Have fun.
Torstein
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by Torstein
Offline dickinsonj  
#20 Posted : 12 October 2018 01:37:00(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: Torstein Go to Quoted Post

I mean it is not necessary to bay Marklins expensive and sometimes clumsy lightning - but sure if you like plug and play items - it is up to you.

Have fun.
Torstein


I agree Torstein - at times it is a good choice to buy Märklin's kits, but only in the right circumstances.

I also agree with you and Jean that the RTS CC couplers are an excellent choice, even if they are not a lot less expensive. The Märklin ones are very hard to find without the kit pieces you don't need and not really any better than the more readily available RTS ones.

And I particularly agree with you about having fun Torstein, which is what this hobby is all about! BigGrin
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by dickinsonj
Offline JohnjeanB  
#21 Posted : 12 October 2018 19:16:39(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Hi

Having now more than 20 pairs of current conducting couplers I have found that;
- the couplers are harder to uncouple (with the rail uncoupler it not working)
- sometimes you have contact problems after a lot of use
- sometimes the coupling is not as reliable some consists "loose" wagons once in a while

Because of this I now consider using much less of them and replace with current conducting bars (for a group of 2 to 3 wagons.
It is less expensive, more reliable and I cannot use rail uncouplers anyway.

Cheers

Jean
Offline Minok  
#22 Posted : 12 October 2018 20:43:16(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi

Having now more than 20 pairs of current conducting couplers I have found that;
- the couplers are harder to uncouple (with the rail uncoupler it not working)
- sometimes you have contact problems after a lot of use
- sometimes the coupling is not as reliable some consists "loose" wagons once in a while

Because of this I now consider using much less of them and replace with current conducting bars (for a group of 2 to 3 wagons.
It is less expensive, more reliable and I cannot use rail uncouplers anyway.

Cheers

Jean


I'd love to understand why that in from a mechanical and electrical standpoint as I'm thinking about using the simple current conducting couplers (with the copper conductive tongue in it) to power lighting in a train).

From a mechanical standpoint, there are the additional conducting plates that get put into the bogies, which can change the freedom of rotation of the bogies a bit I imagine; could that be causing decoupling?

From the mechanics of it I thought the conducting vs non-conducting Märklin short couplers (KK) were almost identical other than the conducting movable tongue. Though the newer Märklin ones are apparently slightly different than the older ones that are like the RTS design.

In my planned use case I would primarly be decoupling locomotives from the cars to implement head station loco switching, so coupling the cars with a fixed coupling may well be a better solution there, but I'd certainly want to be able to uncouple the car from the loco via an uncoupler track if I deliver power via the loco slider over a relay (as opposed to putting a slider in one of the cars and a decoder in the cars - though that option does offer some interesting options of more functionality).

Did you have any uncoupling problems with just normal non-conducting Märklin short couplers? IE is it something in the layout/track/coupler adjustment that may be off and the issue isn't so much a result of the current-conducting aspect?

Thanks for any insight you could provide.

Greetings from Sammamish
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline dickinsonj  
#23 Posted : 13 October 2018 01:12:36(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post


In my planned use case I would primarily be decoupling locomotives from the cars to implement head station loco switching, so coupling the cars with a fixed coupling may well be a better solution there

Thanks for any insight you could provide.

Greetings from Sammamish


All of my Märklin CC couplers are more difficult to couple and uncouple than a regular coupler is. Sometimes I have to lift the coaches up from the track to wrestle them apart, and it takes an amazing amount of force to get them to release. I am sure that on most of mine an uncoupler in the track would never be able to uncouple them, although I don't have one working right now. Mine are all on some of my newer coach sets and they pass currently perfectly, at least so far. I agree that being able to separate a set of passenger coaches is not necessary, except at the head end, hence drawbars.

I have the fixed drawbars in my California Zephyr and I will probably change them out for CC couplers, probaby RTS couplers. It is extremely hard to couple the drawbars on the track and so I lay mine along the track, align and install the drawbars on the adjacent coaches and then slowly roll them over onto the track. It is not pretty, but it does work. The current conduction is flawless and long term they would probably be more reliable than couplers that can be separated, they are just a little inconvenient to handle and mine stay coupled until the whole train comes off the track.

Doing drawbars on groups of two or three coaches as Jean suggests might be the perfect compromise. Maybe that is what I will do on my CZ instead of replacing them all. Cool
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline Minok  
#24 Posted : 13 October 2018 01:59:35(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post


In my planned use case I would primarily be decoupling locomotives from the cars to implement head station loco switching, so coupling the cars with a fixed coupling may well be a better solution there

Thanks for any insight you could provide.

Greetings from Sammamish


All of my Märklin CC couplers are more difficult to couple and uncouple than a regular coupler is.


Ah, sorry for not being clear in my question. Plus your response now generated an additional question.

So first, I was interested "Is a current conducting close coupler harder to uncouple than a non-conducting close coupler" ?

Given your experience, then there is the "Is a close coupler much harder to uncouple than a basic relex coupler?" I suspect it is, but does that mean the close couplers just don't work on uncoupling tracks? I'd thought they are supposed to.

At some point I'll get far enough in the design to set up actual track and uncoupler track and be able to do some test of my own.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline dickinsonj  
#25 Posted : 13 October 2018 02:21:41(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post


Ah, sorry for not being clear in my question. Plus your response now generated an additional question.

So first, I was interested "Is a current conducting close coupler harder to uncouple than a non-conducting close coupler" ?


Yes, I would say that the CC close couplers are less functional than non-CC close couplers, although I can't give you a mechanical reason why.

Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Given your experience, then there is the "Is a close coupler much harder to uncouple than a basic relex coupler?" I suspect it is, but does that mean the close couplers just don't work on uncoupling tracks? I'd thought they are supposed to.


Yes, I would say that any close coupler will be a bit less functional than a more basic coupler, like the relex. There is a reason that many of the older MRR elements were less realistic, because functionality was paramount and liberties were taken. Now we swing so far toward perfect modelling that some functionality is lost but our models are to die for. Maybe we will find the ideal midpoint on that soon. Cool

Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by dickinsonj
Offline rhfil  
#26 Posted : 17 February 2019 03:38:36(UTC)
rhfil

United States   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 422
Location: NEW HAMPSHIRE, Somersworth
Finally getting back to this topic that I started. I finally have a real layout going with an operable uncoupler track and was able to uncouple close conducting couplers with it. Now my quandry is since the normal Marklin close couplers don't seem to lock with the close conducting couplers what do I do to be able to use more than one loco with a variety of cars. My choices seem to be only use the caboose contact to light the cars with normal couplers at the first car and the tender but that means I will not be able to turn off the lights. Or put conducting couplers on all the locomotives and the first car. That might be the way to go. Sad that they did not make the couplers work together. Should not have been that complicated.
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