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Offline marklinsncf  
#51 Posted : 22 September 2014 05:52:57(UTC)
marklinsncf


Joined: 08/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 17
Location: USA
Originally Posted by: danmarklinman Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: marklinsncf Go to Quoted Post
Hello,
Thanks a LOT, that is awesome info. Since we are talking "Le Capitole", wouldn't it be awesome if one day Marklin produced a Capitole CC-6500 with the "Grand Confort" coaches to go with it? What a dream come true it would be...
Francois


I would think a new type of French locomotive I on the cards!
But I think a loco which tooling could be shared between say Holland and France such as CC7100 to get maximum use of tooling! But I would really love a cc-6500 or better still new tooling for a BB9200! CapitoleLove


Oh YES a CC-7100 would be amazing, very few 7100 metal models out there. I am lucky to have a Gerard TAB model of the 7100, all metal, super heavy, a Monster !
Holland operated the 7100? I did not know that.

Edited by moderator 20 June 2019 02:22:32(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline danmarklinman  
#52 Posted : 22 September 2014 11:25:45(UTC)
danmarklinman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 18/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,377
Yes the SNCF CC7100 was also known as a 1300 class on Dutch railways!
danmarklinman attached the following image(s):
image.jpg
Marklin and Piko era 4 SNCB , Marklin wagons
Wiking model car Fan
Faller fan including car system
Instagram: marklin1978
Wiking fan
Offline marklinsncf  
#53 Posted : 22 September 2014 16:40:52(UTC)
marklinsncf


Joined: 08/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 17
Location: USA
Originally Posted by: danmarklinman Go to Quoted Post
Yes the SNCF CC7100 was also known as a 1300 class on Dutch railways!


Thanks for sharing this pic, what a beauty! Well then Marklin, time to work on this! ThumpUp
Offline danmarklinman  
#54 Posted : 22 September 2014 21:37:36(UTC)
danmarklinman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 18/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,377
Originally Posted by: marklinsncf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: danmarklinman Go to Quoted Post
Yes the SNCF CC7100 was also known as a 1300 class on Dutch railways!


Thanks for sharing this pic, what a beauty! Well then Marklin, time to work on this! ThumpUp


Know here's a theory! One of the Dutch 1300 was towed to the Marklin days event last year! Apart from being an expensive attraction at Goppingen HBF, did it have a few scans done by Marklin I wounder!!Wink as it could not run under German overheadBigGrin or am I just wishful thinkingConfusedI found a pick of it when it was there!
danmarklinman attached the following image(s):
image.jpg
Marklin and Piko era 4 SNCB , Marklin wagons
Wiking model car Fan
Faller fan including car system
Instagram: marklin1978
Wiking fan
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Offline cookee_nz  
#55 Posted : 17 November 2015 20:29:59(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
So... getting back to "Le Capitole", BigGrin here's a couple of interesting items spotted

http://www.ebay.de/itm/M...3059-28590-/231745160979 (Baggage Car - custom)

http://www.ebay.de/itm/M...3059-28590-/231745160741 (Dining Car - custom)

http://www.ebay.de/itm/M...3059-28590-/371482154959 (Sleeping Car - custom)

At first glance the paint scheme looks to be very close and well done but would be nice to see next to a genuine one for comparison. In zoom the decals along the skirt are obvious but as a consist or running on the layout, who would know?

The trucks are wrong, replacing those with the SNCF ones would be better, but not sure if the coupling would match the different body style. And of course the actual bodies used, DB not SNCF. But again, only obvious if you know what to look for.

Still...., I could be tempted Drool

I'll add photos saved from the site later on to make them remain once the auctions are finished.
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline cookee_nz  
#56 Posted : 07 May 2018 12:28:54(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Well I'll be darned.

Tonight I was reading through some old issues of the MEA "handelspost" when an article caught my eye regarding THREE versions of the 4075 coach.

Now, I was aware of the different tone of Red used which Koll (2013) refers to as "karmine" (crimson) and "dunkel weinrot" (dark burgundy) and with a slight pink tinge to the white stripes.

BUT..... unless there's been an update, Koll does not refer to one other very noticeable (if you know what to look for) variation.

I did not know of this so I of course I had to check mine, sure enough, I have an example of each. Who knew ?

So.... anyone know the variance I'm referring to before I put up a photo?. THIS REMAINS UNANSWERED Wink

Cheers

Cookee

Edited by user 13 July 2018 08:17:35(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline Michael4  
#57 Posted : 09 May 2018 16:35:33(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 637
Location: England, South Coast
Off on a bit of a tangent, something from VB...

UserPostedImageDSC02044 by dralowid, on Flickr
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#58 Posted : 12 May 2018 09:44:56(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: Michael4 Go to Quoted Post
Off on a bit of a tangent, something from VB...


Hi Michael,
I believe member TrainIride purchased one of these about 2 years ago, but could not get it to work on his Marklin track.
I think it was a wheel profile problem.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline Michael4  
#59 Posted : 13 May 2018 09:50:40(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 637
Location: England, South Coast
Kimball, thanks,

This one is 12v DC. I've had it from new and have recently been thinking about getting someone to convert it to 16vAC which would not be too hard.
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Offline kamstutz  
#60 Posted : 12 July 2018 21:29:09(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 192
Location: Orlando, FL
Cookee and forum readers - I have recently become the owner of the #3059 (Koll's V2) locomotive and have come across your Le Capitole thread here in the Forum. Great amount of fantastic information from you and the other contributors to the thread over the past several years. I now must start the arduous and pricey task of locating the coaches to go with the locomotive. Current prices seem to indicate the #4075 fetches around 100 Euros (or 162 New Zealand dollars) with the original box.

I'm wondering if the Marklin police will have me arrested if I pair the "Le Capitole" loc with some other SNCF coaches - perhaps the #4050 (silver) or ??. Suggestions from SNCF aficionados would be appreciated so that my #3059 won't have to run without wagons (at least until I find the #4075's...)

Kurt
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Offline Markus Schild  
#61 Posted : 13 July 2018 08:08:42(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi,

I just found this paper announcing the CAPITOLE. This is not the 1968 new items catalogue for France. It is an announcement that Märklin will show new items at the Nuremberg fair 1968. The main news for 1968 are not shown, but the CAPITOLE is already announced. Printed in January 1968.


1968-1.jpg1968-2.jpg1968-3.jpg1968-4.jpg

Regards

Markus
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Offline cookee_nz  
#62 Posted : 13 July 2018 14:17:43(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: kamstutz Go to Quoted Post
Cookee and forum readers - I have recently become the owner of the #3059 (Koll's V2) locomotive and have come across your Le Capitole thread here in the Forum. Great amount of fantastic information from you and the other contributors to the thread over the past several years. I now must start the arduous and pricey task of locating the coaches to go with the locomotive. Current prices seem to indicate the #4075 fetches around 100 Euros (or 162 New Zealand dollars) with the original box.

I'm wondering if the Marklin police will have me arrested if I pair the "Le Capitole" loc with some other SNCF coaches - perhaps the #4050 (silver) or ??. Suggestions from SNCF aficionados would be appreciated so that my #3059 won't have to run without wagons (at least until I find the #4075's...)

Kurt


Hi Kurt,

Somewhere, sometime I'm sure the Prototype engine might well have pulled something other than the matching consist - finding proof might be quite another matter.

I don't personally have any of the silver ones, they just never grabbed me, but I think it could go quite well with the later grey coaches for the 3165 - in fact, if you look at this video I just found, it's the reverse configuration - 4075 coaches with the 3165 - to just reverse the paint jobs in your mind :-) I think the grey of the coach roof contacts well with the predominant grey of the body.

Mine are packed away otherwise I'd take a photo of how it would look.

Initially I wondered if the release of the new Le Capitole set might kills the 4075 value but it seems not. They are not the exact same coach for one thing, different running numbers, window differences etc, plus, who in their right mind is gong to break up a factory set to part-out the coaches? - sure a few might have been done but not enough to impact the market.

On the other hand, there are a lot more people now with a full instant set which as you will find, trying to get 4 matching 4075's will take some time and money.

In the meantime, run what you can. I actually still have a set of three plastic LIMA Le Capitole coaches which I had for many years before I was able to start getting the 4075. Side by side there quite a difference, but parked up in the yard, or running behind the 3059 Loco they are absolutely fine, and cheap. And there's the ROCO coaches as well if you can find them.

Good luck with the search. The 4075 are actually relatively cheaper now, than when I purchased mine.

Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#63 Posted : 13 July 2018 18:30:15(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,863
Location: CA, USA
Hi Kurt! I have a feeling I know this loco BigGrin

A quick note on the silver 4050/4075's. I would tend to avoid those because the paint over time can crack or peel off on them, and it seems more of an inevitability than a strange occurrence, although I've had good ones that showed no sign of it coming. It is similar to the peeling the old TEE 3053's tend to get if you've seen that before. I suspect it is bad prep (or lack of prep) before paint on Marklin's part.

The 4065's are a sharp alternative though!
SBB Era 2-5
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Offline cookee_nz  
#64 Posted : 14 July 2018 02:21:39(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
Hi Kurt! I have a feeling I know this loco BigGrin

A quick note on the silver 4050/4075's. I would tend to avoid those because the paint over time can crack or peel off on them, and it seems more of an inevitability than a strange occurrence, although I've had good ones that showed no sign of it coming. It is similar to the peeling the old TEE 3053's tend to get if you've seen that before. I suspect it is bad prep (or lack of prep) before paint on Marklin's part.

The 4065's are a sharp alternative though!


I suspect you meant 4050/4076?

I happened to find an old thread which was interesting....

https://www.marklin-user...iginal--Le-Capitole.aspx

In 2009, apparently the 4075 was fetching 800 € each. I find that very hard to believe and hope nobody here got caught up in that frenzy. There have sure been some crazy crazy Märklin prices over the years.

And yes the 4065 are nice, they really compliment the 3038 Turqoise/Aqua ThumpUp
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline analogmike  
#65 Posted : 14 July 2018 02:41:09(UTC)
analogmike

United States   
Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 737
Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
I found it the other way round: Blue Lok with Red coaches.
Mikey

9200+capitole-ph-Dietrich-Seegers2.jpg
I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning .
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Offline Michael4  
#66 Posted : 14 July 2018 09:47:56(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 637
Location: England, South Coast
So 4075 comes from the same world of fantasy prices as 4063 (the FS version not Santa Fe EMD, odd that they both have the same number)?

Is it reasonable to assume that rolling stock for countries other than Germany tends to fetch higher prices simply due to rarity? It seems less so with locos.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#67 Posted : 14 July 2018 10:20:39(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: analogmike Go to Quoted Post
I found it the other way round: Blue Lok with Red coaches.
Mikey

9200+capitole-ph-Dietrich-Seegers2.jpg


Ooh, Marklin never made it in blue that I know of. Odd that there is a blue coach in the middle of the consist ...

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Offline cookee_nz  
#68 Posted : 14 July 2018 12:31:51(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Michael4 Go to Quoted Post
So 4075 comes from the same world of fantasy prices as 4063 (the FS version not Santa Fe EMD, odd that they both have the same number)?

Is it reasonable to assume that rolling stock for countries other than Germany tends to fetch higher prices simply due to rarity? It seems less so with locos.


I'm not sure if they can really be called 'fantasy' prices, yes they are high compared to other items, but that's the free market in play. More people want an item that is in shorter supply than others.

To me, a fantasy price is when someone 'thinks' an item is worth a lot more than is supported by confirmed sales.

In the case of the Le Capitole, it was a model that was supposedly not very popular at the time, so it was withdrawn. Another story has it that the painting sequence was difficult to put the white stripe on the red body to the accuracy required, but whatever the reason, there is no denying that it is an attractive train, and more-so as a full consist.

It's hard to know whether the resulting rarity was actual, or if it was perceived and driven up by speculation. As well as that, I wonder how many people found an item more attractive because Koll (or Greenberg's at the time) valued it highly so a demand was generated in some people who might otherwise not really have considered it.

Because of the attractiveness of the consist, a line of at least four coaches is desirable (hence the repro set), and for those with large enough layouts, even more.

As for the duplicate item numbers, the 4063 is not the only example, there have been a few others, and some numbers were re-used in the Primex range.

My two cents anyway BigGrin

Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline cookee_nz  
#69 Posted : 14 July 2018 12:37:44(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: analogmike Go to Quoted Post
I found it the other way round: Blue Lok with Red coaches.
Mikey

9200+capitole-ph-Dietrich-Seegers2.jpg


Ooh, Marklin never made it in blue that I know of. Odd that there is a blue coach in the middle of the consist ...



I think 'Blue' is subjective. The Loco is Green, and looks green on my monitor, but if I did not already 'know' it was green, might I see it as blue?

Taking into account the original photo, how it was captured, the monitor it is being viewed on, and the eyes of the viewer. Lot's of room for variance there.

And yes, I noticed the Blue coach as well, pity it's not clear what it is but it just shows, as Cole Porter penned... "Anything Goes"
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline NS1200  
#70 Posted : 14 July 2018 12:48:24(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
Let us call it French Blue.
Not green and not blue.
Overhere we would call it "sea-green".
The NS series 1100/1200/1300 in the early fifties were having a similar color called Turquose.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
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Offline GlennM  
#71 Posted : 14 July 2018 14:29:31(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
The 'Le Capitole' is a beautiful train and sadly I do not own an original 3059, when I was looking some time ago the prices were such that I could get the 150 anniversary reissue 28590 set for the same price as a reasonable 3059 Crying Crying Crying

So I purchased the 28950 and I have to say I am very pleased. IIRC the reissue was using the same molds as the original but with an updated motor and electronics, and runs so very smoothly, and a worthwhile investment to the original 3059. This is a photo of the reissued loco;


Capitol side sloping # 2 adjust small.jpg


Since I have also purchased the ROCO museum loco version of this loco in a wooden box with a wonderful book in the history of the service. This model is more the scale (no pictures yet) than the Marklin model but I will have to get it converted before I can report on how well it runs.

BR
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
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Offline analogmike  
#72 Posted : 14 July 2018 15:05:16(UTC)
analogmike

United States   
Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 737
Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: analogmike Go to Quoted Post
I found it the other way round: Blue Lok with Red coaches.
Mikey


Ooh, Marklin never made it in blue that I know of. Odd that there is a blue coach in the middle of the consist ...



Like so many streamlined "matched consists" after time non matching wagons get shunted into the train either for necessity or due to the railroad management lack of adherence to keep the train looking as it was when it was first conceived.
Having said that, I think I'll have a go with Le Capitole pulling 4050's ....Looks OK to me. Do we need video?
Mikey

capitole 001.JPG
I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning .
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Offline kamstutz  
#73 Posted : 15 July 2018 15:38:15(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 192
Location: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

I just found this paper announcing the CAPITOLE. This is not the 1968 new items catalogue for France. It is an announcement that Märklin will show new items at the Nuremberg fair 1968. The main news for 1968 are not shown, but the CAPITOLE is already announced. Printed in January 1968.


1968-1.jpg1968-2.jpg1968-3.jpg1968-4.jpg

Regards

Markus


Markus - Many thanks for taking the time to upload these scans. They have been added to my personal digital document collection and I also uploaded them to my Wiki. Again much appreciated.

Kurt
Offline kamstutz  
#74 Posted : 15 July 2018 16:02:13(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 192
Location: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kamstutz Go to Quoted Post
Cookee and forum readers - I have recently become the owner of the #3059 (Koll's V2) locomotive and have come across your Le Capitole thread here in the Forum. Great amount of fantastic information from you and the other contributors to the thread over the past several years. I now must start the arduous and pricey task of locating the coaches to go with the locomotive. Current prices seem to indicate the #4075 fetches around 100 Euros (or 162 New Zealand dollars) with the original box.

I'm wondering if the Marklin police will have me arrested if I pair the "Le Capitole" loc with some other SNCF coaches - perhaps the #4050 (silver) or ??. Suggestions from SNCF aficionados would be appreciated so that my #3059 won't have to run without wagons (at least until I find the #4075's...)

Kurt


Hi Kurt,

Somewhere, sometime I'm sure the Prototype engine might well have pulled something other than the matching consist - finding proof might be quite another matter.

I don't personally have any of the silver ones, they just never grabbed me, but I think it could go quite well with the later grey coaches for the 3165 - in fact, if you look at this video I just found, it's the reverse configuration - 4075 coaches with the 3165 - to just reverse the paint jobs in your mind :-) I think the grey of the coach roof contacts well with the predominant grey of the body.

Mine are packed away otherwise I'd take a photo of how it would look.

Initially I wondered if the release of the new Le Capitole set might kills the 4075 value but it seems not. They are not the exact same coach for one thing, different running numbers, window differences etc, plus, who in their right mind is gong to break up a factory set to part-out the coaches? - sure a few might have been done but not enough to impact the market.

On the other hand, there are a lot more people now with a full instant set which as you will find, trying to get 4 matching 4075's will take some time and money.

In the meantime, run what you can. I actually still have a set of three plastic LIMA Le Capitole coaches which I had for many years before I was able to start getting the 4075. Side by side there quite a difference, but parked up in the yard, or running behind the 3059 Loco they are absolutely fine, and cheap. And there's the ROCO coaches as well if you can find them.

Good luck with the search. The 4075 are actually relatively cheaper now, than when I purchased mine.



Hello Cookee - For those that don't have a 1982 catalog handy the passenger coaches that you are referring to are the #4161's. Those actually might work with the Le Capitole lok and if I ever dive deeper into SNCF then I'll need to find the #3165 eLok as well. I didn't see a link to the video you mentioned that shows the 4075 coaches with the 3165 lok. Please post if you can find the link again.

A friend of mine has the new Le Capitole set (#28590 from 2009/10). It's very nice and if I came across a set for a good price I'd probably pick it up (even though I don't run digial.. yet anyway). Still I prefer the "hunt" as part of my collecting journey and finding every piece in a nice packaged set doesn't give me the satisfaction of hunting down the pieces of a train from multiple sources. Call me crazy, but I think that's kind of what attracted me to collecting in the first place - the research and the hunt... ;)

I have a few Lima wagons (Dutch livery) that I got in a trade with a friend and although the quality is IMHO inferior to Marklin, they do, as you point out, serve just fine when mixed in with other Marklin cars of the same prototype. I don't have too much knowledge of the Roco product line, but that is something else to research.

Thanks for the feedback.

Offline kamstutz  
#75 Posted : 15 July 2018 16:14:51(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 192
Location: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
Hi Kurt! I have a feeling I know this loco BigGrin

A quick note on the silver 4050/4075's. I would tend to avoid those because the paint over time can crack or peel off on them, and it seems more of an inevitability than a strange occurrence, although I've had good ones that showed no sign of it coming. It is similar to the peeling the old TEE 3053's tend to get if you've seen that before. I suspect it is bad prep (or lack of prep) before paint on Marklin's part.

The 4065's are a sharp alternative though!


Hey John! Yep - I think you guessed right and I'm sure the #3059 that you claim to "know" has run very "near" you in the past. Always good to inherit a lok with a pedigree...

I'll be sure to check out a 4050/4075 for any sign of cracking or peeling before adding to my SNCF train(s). I have seen a similar condition that you describe in some of the "Silverfish" coaches (#4042/4043/4046). Not sure if it's the same issue, but thanks for the heads up.

I think pairing the Le Captiole with the 4165 coaches would make for a great Christmas train (red and green) ... ;)

Kurt
Offline kamstutz  
#76 Posted : 15 July 2018 16:19:01(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 192
Location: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by: analogmike Go to Quoted Post
I found it the other way round: Blue Lok with Red coaches.
Mikey

9200+capitole-ph-Dietrich-Seegers2.jpg


Mike - So the moral of the story is... it doesn't matter what you pair the coaches or the locomotive with. I rather doubt that the SNCF railroad company at the time cancelled a trip because they didn't have a "matching" eLok to pull the Le Capitole coaches.

Thanks for sharing the picture.

Kurt
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Offline kamstutz  
#77 Posted : 15 July 2018 16:34:22(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 192
Location: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by: Michael4 Go to Quoted Post
So 4075 comes from the same world of fantasy prices as 4063 (the FS version not Santa Fe EMD, odd that they both have the same number)?

Is it reasonable to assume that rolling stock for countries other than Germany tends to fetch higher prices simply due to rarity? It seems less so with locos.


Michael - As someone who has only really started serious collecting in the past 5 years I too have discovered the "fantasy" prices for non-German rolling stock. After Germany I moved to SBB then to NS and others before starting with SNCF (Le Capitole) - made the transition a bit less painful ($$$) FS is another livery in the fantasy world of prices. What's with the #4036/#4063? (another thread)...

I have a 2006 edition of Koll's and it shows the price of the #4075 Le Capitole coach as 300 Euros. My 2018 edition lists it at 150 Euros. Definitely a drop in price over the past decade. I doubt that I would buy the coaches purely as an investment, but if you want to build the Le Capitole train then you have to make the jump sometime and "pay to play". There is another option too - wait another 20 years and the price will probably be 25 Euros.

(Can you run trains in heaven....)

Kurt
Offline kamstutz  
#78 Posted : 15 July 2018 16:43:22(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 192
Location: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by: GlennM Go to Quoted Post
The 'Le Capitole' is a beautiful train and sadly I do not own an original 3059, when I was looking some time ago the prices were such that I could get the 150 anniversary reissue 28590 set for the same price as a reasonable 3059 Crying Crying Crying

So I purchased the 28950 and I have to say I am very pleased. IIRC the reissue was using the same molds as the original but with an updated motor and electronics, and runs so very smoothly, and a worthwhile investment to the original 3059. This is a photo of the reissued loco;


Capitol side sloping # 2 adjust small.jpg


Since I have also purchased the ROCO museum loco version of this loco in a wooden box with a wonderful book in the history of the service. This model is more the scale (no pictures yet) than the Marklin model but I will have to get it converted before I can report on how well it runs.

BR


Glenn - In my opinion there is no denying the fact that the complete Le Capitole train is very attractive - and a welcome variation from the sometimes monotonous drab green color that I seem to have too many of in my collection. All of the videos that I have seen showing the M model with coaches makes me want the train for my collection and layout. The hunt is on...
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Offline kamstutz  
#79 Posted : 15 July 2018 16:49:03(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 192
Location: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by: analogmike Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: analogmike Go to Quoted Post
I found it the other way round: Blue Lok with Red coaches.
Mikey


Ooh, Marklin never made it in blue that I know of. Odd that there is a blue coach in the middle of the consist ...



Like so many streamlined "matched consists" after time non matching wagons get shunted into the train either for necessity or due to the railroad management lack of adherence to keep the train looking as it was when it was first conceived.
Having said that, I think I'll have a go with Le Capitole pulling 4050's ....Looks OK to me. Do we need video?
Mikey

capitole 001.JPG


Mikey - I think that the #4050's look acceptable with the Le Capitole lok. Of course a video would provide a better presentation of the consist. ;) If I can get a set of them for a decent price (taking into consideration the caveats that 5HorizonsRR mentions with possible paint peeling) then I might go for it.

I'll still keep hunting for the #4075's though....

K
Offline GlennM  
#80 Posted : 15 July 2018 17:08:15(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Originally Posted by: kamstutz Go to Quoted Post
I don't have too much knowledge of the Roco product line, but that is something else to research.

Thanks for the feedback.



Kurt,

I have the Roco Le Capitole coach sets 44080 and 44087, which I am very pleased with as I think the overall construction is good and the level of detailing is also good. I have run them with my Marklin loco from the 28950 [which can be seen at minute 15:29, of this Youtube Video Marklin UK Club Meeting Video], and deploy a Marklin coupling on the first coach and then Roco close couplers for the remainder, and I like the 'close' running effect generated by these couplers.

Things to note, in my experience the Roco close couplers do not like K track turnouts and switches nor do the wheel sets occasionally. They run without issue on C-track, but sadly I have never tested them on M-Track so cannot advise. I know the wheel sets can be replaced, and some people have commented that the Roco coaches stay on better with some added weight.

The big thing to note with the Roco coaches is that they are to a different scale than the Marklin ones and so mix and match coaches would not look too realistic, even the coaches in the 28950 are tin plate coaches made to the original spec and so are short in terms of scale length.

All the best
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
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Offline GlennM  
#81 Posted : 15 July 2018 17:13:21(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Originally Posted by: kamstutz Go to Quoted Post


Glenn - In my opinion there is no denying the fact that the complete Le Capitole train is very attractive - and a welcome variation from the sometimes monotonous drab green colore that I seem to have too many of in my collection. All of the videos that I have seen showing the M model with coaches makes me want the train for my collection and layout. The hunt is on...


Good luck in your hunt...................I am sure you will not be disappointed ThumpUp ThumpUp
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
Offline Michael4  
#82 Posted : 15 July 2018 19:42:59(UTC)
Michael4

United Kingdom   
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 637
Location: England, South Coast
Originally Posted by: kamstutz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Michael4 Go to Quoted Post



(Can you run trains in heaven....)

Kurt


Analogue trains run in heaven (as does live steam), digital is forbidden past the pearly gates. I am also told that St Peter only allows the entry of film cameras and the occasional valve radio.

Edited by moderator 16 July 2018 06:13:55(UTC)  | Reason: Fixed nested quoting - cookee

Offline kamstutz  
#83 Posted : 15 July 2018 20:44:04(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 192
Location: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by: Michael4 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kamstutz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Michael4 Go to Quoted Post


(Can you run trains in heaven ?....)

Kurt


Analogue trains run in heaven (as does live steam), digital is forbidden past the pearly gates. I am also told that St Peter only allows the entry of film cameras and the occasional valve radio.


Michael - It is good to know then that St. Peter was brought up by a family that taught the basic values of right and wrong and knowing the difference between good and evil. Don't want to hijack this thread, but do digital owners even ascend to the Pearly Gates or do they instead descend to .... ? LOL Flapper OhMyGod

Edited by moderator 16 July 2018 06:13:20(UTC)  | Reason: Fixed nested quoting

Offline cookee_nz  
#84 Posted : 16 July 2018 06:10:04(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: kamstutz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kamstutz Go to Quoted Post
Cookee and forum readers - I have recently become the owner of the #3059 (Koll's V2) locomotive and have come across your Le Capitole thread here in the Forum. Great amount of fantastic information from you and the other contributors to the thread over the past several years. I now must start the arduous and pricey task of locating the coaches to go with the locomotive. Current prices seem to indicate the #4075 fetches around 100 Euros (or 162 New Zealand dollars) with the original box.

I'm wondering if the Marklin police will have me arrested if I pair the "Le Capitole" loc with some other SNCF coaches - perhaps the #4050 (silver) or ??. Suggestions from SNCF aficionados would be appreciated so that my #3059 won't have to run without wagons (at least until I find the #4075's...)

Kurt


Hi Kurt,

Somewhere, sometime I'm sure the Prototype engine might well have pulled something other than the matching consist - finding proof might be quite another matter.

I don't personally have any of the silver ones, they just never grabbed me, but I think it could go quite well with the later grey coaches for the 3165 - in fact, if you look at this video I just found, it's the reverse configuration - 4075 coaches with the 3165 - to just reverse the paint jobs in your mind :-) I think the grey of the coach roof contacts well with the predominant grey of the body.

Mine are packed away otherwise I'd take a photo of how it would look.

Initially I wondered if the release of the new Le Capitole set might kills the 4075 value but it seems not. They are not the exact same coach for one thing, different running numbers, window differences etc, plus, who in their right mind is gong to break up a factory set to part-out the coaches? - sure a few might have been done but not enough to impact the market.

On the other hand, there are a lot more people now with a full instant set which as you will find, trying to get 4 matching 4075's will take some time and money.

In the meantime, run what you can. I actually still have a set of three plastic LIMA Le Capitole coaches which I had for many years before I was able to start getting the 4075. Side by side there quite a difference, but parked up in the yard, or running behind the 3059 Loco they are absolutely fine, and cheap. And there's the ROCO coaches as well if you can find them.

Good luck with the search. The 4075 are actually relatively cheaper now, than when I purchased mine.



Hello Cookee - For those that don't have a 1982 catalog handy the passenger coaches that you are referring to are the #4161's. Those actually might work with the Le Capitole lok and if I ever dive deeper into SNCF then I'll need to find the #3165 eLok as well. I didn't see a link to the video you mentioned that shows the 4075 coaches with the 3165 lok. Please post if you can find the link again.

A friend of mine has the new Le Capitole set (#28590 from 2009/10). It's very nice and if I came across a set for a good price I'd probably pick it up (even though I don't run digial.. yet anyway). Still I prefer the "hunt" as part of my collecting journey and finding every piece in a nice packaged set doesn't give me the satisfaction of hunting down the pieces of a train from multiple sources. Call me crazy, but I think that's kind of what attracted me to collecting in the first place - the research and the hunt... ;)

I have a few Lima wagons (Dutch livery) that I got in a trade with a friend and although the quality is IMHO inferior to Marklin, they do, as you point out, serve just fine when mixed in with other Marklin cars of the same prototype. I don't have too much knowledge of the Roco product line, but that is something else to research.

Thanks for the feedback.



Sorry Kurt, my bad.... here's the video - 3165 with 4075



And I have to say, it's neat to see some more chit-chat on this topic again ThumpUp
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline kamstutz  
#85 Posted : 16 July 2018 22:36:19(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 192
Location: Orlando, FL
Cookee - Thanks for the video. While the #3165 "kind of" marries with the "Le Capitole" coaches, I still prefer the original #3159 over the #3165... Of course in either situation you NEED the #4075 coaches which is the challenge ($$). If I had four or five #4075 coaches then the locomotive would be an easy addition. I, like probably all of my MRR friends, continue to keep a watch out for these coveted coaches on a "Buy It Now" eBay offer from an estate liquidator that has absolutely no clue about model trains ....
Offline kimballthurlow  
#86 Posted : 17 July 2018 04:59:58(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: kamstutz Go to Quoted Post
.....

I'll be sure to check out a 4050/4075 for any sign of cracking or peeling before adding to my SNCF train(s). I have seen a similar condition that you describe in some of the "Silverfish" coaches (#4042/4043/4046). Not sure if it's the same issue, but thanks for the heads up.

I think pairing the Le Captiole with the 4165 coaches would make for a great Christmas train (red and green) ... ;)

Kurt


Hi Kurt,
For the stainless steel coaches, it is possible to find the Horny Acho equivalent of the 4050. These are 28cm long.
Model numbers #737, 7370, 745, 7450 etc
In reviews they seem to have the edge on the Marklin, and the models came from the same era.
The wheelsets of my other Acho carriages run fine on the Marklin track.

Try this listing number on ebay.uk. 142278051084
There are others like 362363977058 (but this one has different couplings not compatible with Marklin. Easily changed with a screw, but sourcing the alternative can be difficult.)

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline Markus Schild  
#87 Posted : 17 July 2018 20:22:52(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post


For the stainless steel coaches, it is possible to find the Horny Acho equivalent of the 4050. These are 28cm long.
Model numbers #737, 7370, 745, 7450 etc


Hi,

another alternative are the coaches from VB and SMCF. They are both full metal, so the length of a train is limited. But very nice models for the 1950s.

The VB-version:

mistral1.jpg

mistral2.jpg

mistral3.jpg

The SMCF-coach:

mistralA8_2.jpg

mistralA8_1.jpg

I suspect that no other coach was made by more different manufacturers than the SNCF-Inox types.

Regards

Markus
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Offline jvuye  
#88 Posted : 17 July 2018 21:59:33(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: kamstutz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: analogmike Go to Quoted Post
I found it the other way round: Blue Lok with Red coaches.
Mikey

9200+capitole-ph-Dietrich-Seegers2.jpg


Mike - So the moral of the story is... it doesn't matter what you pair the coaches or the locomotive with. I rather doubt that the SNCF railroad company at the time cancelled a trip because they didn't have a "matching" eLok to pull the Le Capitole coaches.

Thanks for sharing the picture.

Kurt


This picture is clearly from a replacement/reinforcement Capitole consist.
There were only 6 BB 9200 converted for 200 kph Capitole duties (Motors, gear ratios, in cab signalling , red bodywork)
The picture here is clearly taken of a southbound train taken between Paris and Orléans, as shown by the Aero train test tracks seen in the background.

This consist is pulled by a regular 160 kph 9200 and made of a set of reserve Capitole UIC coaches, but with a CIWL old Restaurant car. There were only 3 Capitole restaurant cars.
So it's a clear case of a CIWL coach being used to replace a shortage of original Capitole equipment.

There was also a time when the Cisalpin TEE Paris Milano equipment was converted from the SBB/CFF RAe railcars to SNCF Budd Inox coaches. The Swiss did not like the idea of the pneumatic suspension on those restaurant coaches (because of loading gauge restriction concerns that would likely be violated in case of a pneumatic suspension defect)
Therefore, the SNCF incorporated Capitole restaurant coaches in the Cisalpin TEE consist for a while, until the SBB/CFF got convinced that there would be no problem.
I suppose that in those days , older pre WWII CIWL coaches were called back into service for domestic Capitole service.

Hope this helps!

Cheers

Jacques
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#89 Posted : 17 July 2018 22:52:29(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
..
... a southbound train taken between Paris and Orléans, as shown by the Aero train test tracks seen in the background.
.... Cheers

Jacques


Oh I never understood what that was about.
I travelled on the Orleans trains a few times, and the derelict structures were a bit of a mystery.
Thanks Jaques.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline jvuye  
#90 Posted : 17 July 2018 23:08:42(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
..
... a southbound train taken between Paris and Orléans, as shown by the Aero train test tracks seen in the background.
.... Cheers

Jacques


Oh I never understood what that was about.
I travelled on the Orleans trains a few times, and the derelict structures were a bit of a mystery.
Thanks Jaques.

Kimball


Aerotrain Bertin

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline Markus Schild  
#91 Posted : 17 July 2018 23:10:39(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi Kimball,

The structures are mostly still existing. If you ride on the A19 you can see this:

https://www.google.de/maps/@48.0456723,1.884846,3a,84.2y,202.22h,72.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shTsxDZ3nXV4_KyxuwBd4VQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Regards

Markus
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Offline jvuye  
#92 Posted : 17 July 2018 23:20:23(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post
Hi Kimball,

The structures are mostly still existing. If you ride on the A19 you can see this:

https://www.google.de/maps/@48.0456723,1.884846,3a,84.2y,202.22h,72.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shTsxDZ3nXV4_KyxuwBd4VQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Regards

Markus


yes correct!
Part of the track was removed to build the freeway; (Iuse this A19 regularly to go visit the kids!)
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline cookee_nz  
#93 Posted : 19 July 2018 12:25:27(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
The things you find... I have no idea what this is about, but that doesn't really matter, because someone else will and then we'll all know ThumpUp

terre-alexandre-billet-de-2000-dollars-locomotive-bb9291-2017.jpg
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline kamstutz  
#94 Posted : 19 July 2018 12:45:46(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 192
Location: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
The things you find... I have no idea what this is about, but that doesn't really matter, because someone else will and then we'll all know ThumpUp


Of course that is an "Antarctica" dollar ??? Confused Why not get the full history of railroad "set" ? The $1000 note looks pretty slick too. Still one available here from an eBay seller in Thailand. - Antarctica currency set

AntarticaDollars.jpg

Kurt

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Offline cookee_nz  
#95 Posted : 19 October 2018 00:51:47(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Well I'll be darned.

Tonight I was reading through some old issues of the MEA "handelspost" when an article caught my eye regarding THREE versions of the 4075 coach.

Now, I was aware of the different tone of Red used which Koll (2013) refers to as "karmine" (crimson) and "dunkel weinrot" (dark burgundy) and with a slight pink tinge to the white stripes.

BUT..... unless there's been an update, Koll does not refer to one other very noticeable (if you know what to look for) variation.

I did not know of this so I of course I had to check mine, sure enough, I have an example of each. Who knew ?

So.... anyone know the variance I'm referring to before I put up a photo?. THIS REMAINS UNANSWERED Wink

Cheers

Cookee


I just realised this question regarding the three reported variants of the 4075 coach remained unanswered.

Apart from the the differences in the Red shade and the Grey roof, has anyone who has any of these coaches checked the inside door of the vestibule?

The variation does not appear to be covered by Koll's, but when I checked I was surprised to find I have one of the alternative vestibule doors, not fully grey, the lower portion is black.

So to the obvious question, why might this be?, is it an intentional change, or an error from incomplete painting? - and if a painting error, would it be considered a "print/paint error" (fehldruk)?

And of course, who else might have any 4075 or other coaches with this two-tone vestibule door? it's an easily overlooked detail.

PS - for those who note printing codes, I cannot guarantee that the boxes below are the original matching boxes these coaches came in because I acquired all my coaches second-hand. Anyone who has had their 4075 from new, and absolutely knows 100% that the coach is still with the original shipped box might be able to confirm.

4075-Vestibule.jpg

Edited by user 19 October 2018 21:26:27(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline cookee_nz  
#96 Posted : 18 January 2019 00:35:35(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
HOW COULD THEY!!!!

A (very badly) repainted HAMO Le Capitole Sad

https://www.trademe.co.nz/1915319346

Words fail me. Well, I had to comment on the auction, as politely as I could manage. This seller normally has reasonably good items so I have to assume it was acquired by him like this.

One only hopes that it was in such poor condition pre-repaint that nothing was really lost but honestly?, surely even a battered example would be infinitely better than this Confused

Makes me want to cry Crying Crying Crying

8359repaint-947619255.jpg

8359repaint-947620004.jpg

Edited by user 20 June 2019 02:23:51(UTC)  | Reason: added images, edit title

Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline river6109  
#97 Posted : 18 January 2019 06:05:18(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Hi, Roco has announced new item for 2019: Le Capitole with coaches.

the recommended retail price is: Euro 629.70.
Includes: sound and 8 coaches (6 coaches, 1 coach/baggage, 1 restaurant car,

there are cheaper prices on offer: 1 loco with sound & 8 cars = Euro 478.89 or without sound Euro 414.24, 4 car set Euro 133.01

here is a video of "a" Le Capitole





John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#98 Posted : 18 January 2019 07:53:52(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Roco has announced new item for 2019: Le Capitole with coaches.


I saw those, am wondering about getting a set of coaches to go with my 3059 Marklin loco Blink Mellow

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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#99 Posted : 18 January 2019 08:56:10(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
......surely even a battered example would be infinitely better than this Confused


Seller says it has been repainted from the original brown.....

Don't think they were ever brown........were they?

Offline Markus Schild  
#100 Posted : 18 January 2019 09:37:09(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post


Don't think they were ever brown........were they?



Hi,

I see more than one indicator that the seller suffers from Achromatopsia. Blink

Regards

Markus
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