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Offline 1spur  
#1 Posted : 27 August 2012 18:36:56(UTC)
1spur

Norway   
Joined: 16/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 65
Location: Kristiansand
BigGrin Hello Everyone


It as being quite a while since I was last on this or any other Model Railway Forum come to that?afraid my health is somewhat precariousCrying and I keep ending up with a free trip in a cramped Norwegian ambulance(Joke) I would not be here if it were not for the Norwegian health systemThumpUp

My questions relate mainly to the usage & limitations of the Marklin Mobile Station 2 and here I have to explain a little of the current background and my continued interest in Model railways at all,which to be honest really looked to be going no where!for several reasons;I am now in the last chance saloon and I sincerely hope to finally achieve my life long dream of owning and running a first class layout! fingers & toes crossed.

I am not making it easy for myself as I finally decided Spur1 was for me,never being so sure of anything even allowing for costs,space limitations and building it e.t.c......What`s changed RollEyeswell I have not only being battling serious illness,but also the UK Government!! and to cut a very long story short,it now looks as though I will be finally receiving what is owed to me,after a long and stressful battle,not quite over but nearly.

I have quite specific railway Modeling needs,and living as we do in the backwoods gives me no opportunity to interact with railway Modellers here in Norway.So I have to rely on good folk like yourselves for all my information,guidance e.t.c.I am in the process of planning,what would be relatively speaking a small end to end layout,remote chance of return loop? in SPUR 1It maybe better termed a large diorama(yet to be built for me) anyway it will be a maximum 3mtrs long x deepest bit up to 1.90 MTR?

As the proposed layout will be small[All things being relative of course]I asked around re the Marklin Digital » Mobile Station &CS e.t.c. ? and I received a lot of good feedback to a point? excuse the pun.I am looking at maybe max 6 sets of points/turnouts+ some signalling both mechanical and lighted.The plan is for a Industrial layout if you can imagine warehouse sidings (possible return loop) or end to end?but visually interesting and offering at least some flexibility in operation for me.

I accept that whilst the Mobile Station 60653 is basic,I was hoping it could be utilised with the addition of possibly extras to make up for it`s limitations.I really like the idea of a SHUTTLE both manual & automatic( I am still not sure how all this works even after 40 years of interest!)

I am told the Mobile Station does not offer this possibility of shuttle,but hoped there was someway of adding accessory module`s or similar to it?I really do not wish to revisit the Better DCC control systems but at the same time I would love my cake & eat it!

So to recap Points/Signals/lighting as well as loco commands for Spur 1 marklin e.t.c.including smoke and variety of sounds,Inertia control,Shuttle function,and I feel sure there are things I have missed out,But I am sure that is enough to begin with.

I am now aware I will need to boost the power to the MS2,to run as expected no more than two small tanks Spur 1 loco`s+ accessories,functions e.t.c.and a bit to spare?

Look forward with great interest to hearing from some of you.

many thanks for your Patience

best wishes Steve SylvesterThumpUp

Edited by user 03 September 2012 20:30:04(UTC)  | Reason: To Cut out all my initial Ramblings!

Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 27 August 2012 23:16:40(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Steve,

The MS2 was designed for 1.9 A output current, so the 2 A power supply made for it is the best power source. A PC power supply does not give more track current, it only gives extra risks.
The MS2 can control digital turnouts - but IMHO not user-friendly, so I'd rather go for control boxes.
The MS2 was not made for automatic operation, no input for feedback from the track, no connection for a PC.

Not sure if 1.9 A are enough for two gauge I locos. If not, you can still add a booster later.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline 1spur  
#3 Posted : 28 August 2012 01:49:26(UTC)
1spur

Norway   
Joined: 16/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 65
Location: Kristiansand
Hello Tom
Thank you very much indeed for your kind and helpful reply much appreciated.
I was wondering how user friendly the MS2 was?I new it was limited.I understand about the Pc PS many thanks for that.
Regarding having enough power and some to spare,Which booster would I require to give me this extra power so not having to worry?

Quote:
The MS2 was not made for automatic operation, no input for feedback from the track, no connection for a PC.


I had not realised there was no connection to PC? & No feedback from track either.Could the MS2 be used as a slave or similar?.... but even I can see this would not be the way to go really,and opting for the Central station is really not viable,can not see me buying that seems very expensive!

Not sure which route to follow now,so any additional thoughts very much appreciated,going to have to look at this from a different angle I think?

Best wishes SteveThumpUp


Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Steve,

The MS2 was designed for 1.9 A output current, so the 2 A power supply made for it is the best power source. A PC power supply does not give more track current, it only gives extra risks.
The MS2 can control digital turnouts - but IMHO not user-friendly, so I'd rather go for control boxes.
The MS2 was not made for automatic operation, no input for feedback from the track, no connection for a PC.

Not sure if 1.9 A are enough for two gauge I locos. If not, you can still add a booster later.


Offline Rhapsody  
#4 Posted : 01 September 2012 18:18:14(UTC)
Rhapsody


Joined: 22/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: Lykstad, SH
Hello Steve,

as Tom just wrote, the MS2 itself is not able to provide you with the functions you are looking for, but together with some accessories from the CAN-digital-Bahn Project it would do, if the power of the MS2 generally is enough for your gauge 1 diorama.

There is an interface called ‚CC-Schnitte 2.0’ which connects the MS2 (plus Gleisbox) to the pc and there are at least three control programs, Win-Digipet, ModellStellwerk and Rocrail which are free of charge as long as the demo-version will be sufficent. The fourth program that would work well with the CAN-modules is iTrain, but here the small version would cost some Euros.

Naturally feedback is possible if you use ‚StromSniffers’ for detection and if you need a booster, then there is the ‚ModulBooster’ available.

In my opinion there are still more advantages, if you e.g. use turnouts with end position detection then together with the ‚WeichenChef’ one can have a real feedback for the position of the turnouts, too. For easy control of your turnouts you can use the ‚WeichenKeyboard’.

More informations you can find here:

'CAN-digital-Bahn Projekt'

I have found two videos on the internet which can be interesting to look at:

Layoutcontrol with MS2, CC-Schnitte and Win-Digipet

Realtime Feedback of Turnouts with WeichenChef
kind regards,
Rhapsody
Offline 1spur  
#5 Posted : 02 September 2012 04:35:13(UTC)
1spur

Norway   
Joined: 16/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 65
Location: Kristiansand
BigGrin Good morning Rhapsody, it is 03:30 here as I write.

Firstly must thank you very much indeed for introducing me to this whole new world of Model railway control..ThumpUp

Must admit since receiving your message,I have being quite excited by what you wrote,so much so I have spent a fair amount of time looking at the CAN-digital-Bahn Projekt I always at these times wish I could understand and write in GermanBlushing Just to mention long ago,back in 1977-78 I worked in a small place called Sankt Englemar near Straubing, Bayern.My German was never very good i`m afraid.which is maybe one reason it may be difficult to become involved with the project especially as a potential buyer?without someone to help me.

The site is great and I am going to be registering,and I think I can see what it is all about...but not totally?
I watched the two films which again were interesting,and I am assuming all the accessory modules came from the
CAN-digital-Bahn Projekt

Quote:
There is an interface called ‚CC-Schnitte 2.0’ which connects the MS2 (plus Gleisbox) to the pc and there are at least three control programs, Win-Digipet, ModellStellwerk and Rocrail which are free of charge as long as the demo-version will be sufficent. The fourth program that would work well with the CAN-modules is iTrain, but here the small version would cost some Euros.
paying is not a problem if it is felt that it would be useful in the big picture!for me understanding these programmes is the major test.

I can see the thinking behind the project,but for a diorama like the one I envisage,would it be practical?I am not questioning any aspect of the project itself, I am just trying to understand it.

For example I see two small Tank Locomotives,on and end to end layout which will have several sidings possibly? 3mtrs max in length.I would like the possibility to run a shuttle automatically not just on one line but being able to set in a route and reverse this route at the end e.t.c. also would it be possible for automatic setting of the routes and then take over manually?for a change.with the usual prototypical acceleration signal stops e.t.c.

I was trying to work out what all the modules were used for and how they all fit together to make a system? weather it be small or large.I am suspecting but again not sure? that if I use one of the PC Programmes you kindly listed ,would they be used for writing loco CV`s and possibly the whole Layout set up? would love to try and get my head around how all this works together explained simply,if that is possible.

Quote:
Naturally feedback is possible if you use ‚StromSniffers’ for detection and if you need a booster, then there is the ‚ModulBooster’ available.


Unless someone can see a good reason for train detection on my envisaged Small layout then possibly it may not be required?modulbooster sounds fine as long as it is able to power the DCC loco`s /lights/Turnouts e.t.c. with some to spare
Must admit I was always taken by the IRDOT train location system,it looked good..and also added different accessories over the years so I am assuming the above system does something similar ,but in a different way? am I correct Tom.

Quote:
In my opinion there are still more advantages, if you e.g. use turnouts with end position detection then together with the ‚WeichenChef’ one can have a real feedback for the position of the turnouts, too. For easy control of your turnouts you can use the ‚WeichenKeyboard’.


Must admit all this sounds very exciting,was this project started as a way of utilising the Marklin MS2 by adding all these accessories? I would be more than interested in hearing a little about the project,"how & why It began e.t.c"

My final point for the time being, is how strongly would you and others advice me to Use the MS2 as the main DCC controller/ station,when compared to other systems out there,which I know are nearly all so much more expensive
I know I paid over £450 for my NCE DCC system with extra Cab/PS e.t.c.(The one never opened and sold at a lossThumbDown

My Very Final point if I may,l I may have to have the Diorama built in Germany,if I am unable to find anyone here in Norway?
I am in the process of contacting some of the Spur1 Freundegroups in Germany to ascertain if anyone would consider taking on the project for me? of course having it built outside Norway brings it`s own expensive problems of shipping!! which can costa small fortune these days.I may be able to find a courier to deliver but even then it will cost me 35% import VAT (ink Collection Fees!!)as Norway not in EU

I am Afraid due to just some of the reasons outlined in my initial post,that with all the best will in the world and a huge effort on my part would not help in building this diorama/layout,it requires modelling folk with passion,enthusiasm and above all else the skills required to build it correctly,and to a good standard.I am not up to buildingeven if I were in the best of health,I know my limitations!Crying

This project (model railway) as being with me everyday for over 40 years! and in recent years it as being with me almost constantly as my health worsens and time moves on.

I thank you most sincerely for your great encouragement,it means a lot to me
Please keep the good ideas coming

Best wishes SteveMellow




Originally Posted by: Rhapsody Go to Quoted Post
Hello Steve,

as Tom just wrote, the MS2 itself is not able to provide you with the functions you are looking for, but together with some accessories from the CAN-digital-Bahn Project it would do, if the power of the MS2 generally is enough for your gauge 1 diorama.

There is an interface called ‚CC-Schnitte 2.0’ which connects the MS2 (plus Gleisbox) to the pc and there are at least three control programs, Win-Digipet, ModellStellwerk and Rocrail which are free of charge as long as the demo-version will be sufficent. The fourth program that would work well with the CAN-modules is iTrain, but here the small version would cost some Euros.

Naturally feedback is possible if you use ‚StromSniffers’ for detection and if you need a booster, then there is the ‚ModulBooster’ available.

In my opinion there are still more advantages, if you e.g. use turnouts with end position detection then together with the ‚WeichenChef’ one can have a real feedback for the position of the turnouts, too. For easy control of your turnouts you can use the ‚WeichenKeyboard’.

More informations you can find here:

'CAN-digital-Bahn Projekt'

I have found two videos on the internet which can be interesting to look at:

Layoutcontrol with MS2, CC-Schnitte and Win-Digipet

Realtime Feedback of Turnouts with WeichenChef
Offline eroncelli  
#6 Posted : 02 September 2012 06:48:57(UTC)
eroncelli

Italy   
Joined: 16/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 124
Location: Bergamo - italy
My advice is that you take a look at this:
http://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.php

You get SW for free and HW
Many control stations and other HW are supported

And it's in plain English (no German, unless you like the German Forum)
Offline Danlake  
#7 Posted : 02 September 2012 08:04:26(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
Hi Steve,

Welcome to the forum.

I know nothing about Spur 1, but I will look forward to see photos as your layout progressThumpUp

Brgds - Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 02 September 2012 08:46:07(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: 1spur Go to Quoted Post
Unless someone can see a good reason for train detection on my envisaged Small layout then possibly it may not be required?
Automatic operation (even if it's just a simple shuttle train) normally requires feedback from the layout to the controlling "computer" - the controller must know which tracks are free and which tracks are occupied.

That's what the StromSniffer does.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Rhapsody  
#9 Posted : 02 September 2012 18:23:41(UTC)
Rhapsody


Joined: 22/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: Lykstad, SH
Hello Steve,

I know, unfortunately not every module description is yet translated into English, but that is simply caused by lack of time. Generally communication in English is not an issue, every mail will be answered and as I have heard sometimes people, who did not know every vocabulary in English, wrote some essential words in their mother tongue and together with internet translator the questions could be replied to in a satisfactory manner. Where there’s a will, there’s a way... Wink

But I hope, you have seen the little English flag on the right upper side of the main page, so that you could read at least some of the module descriptions in English? I did not linked the CC-Schnitte’s description directly, because I was not sure you would then get to the English version, without choosing the language first.

Concerning the story behind the project I know as much about it that the developer of the modules first had had major problems with the feedback via s88 which couldn’t be solved at that time. He then got ill and, as you maybe can imagine, engineering some solution by using the CAN-bus helped him to recover again. He choosed the CAN-bus because it’s more reliable and offers more opportunities with its bi-directionality. Messages can not only be sent, but they can provoke answers as well and that helps the security of the whole layout. In addition to that in future time the sent messages can be equipped with special details so that e.g. the signalling becomes more prototype-like. (Normally the signal turns from green to red and vice versa and that’s all. With more information in the message it would be possible that the signals got a particular dimmed change of light, but this function momentarily is still not implemented, how I just mentioned above: one needs a certain time to prepare everything.)

In my opinion the CAN-modules are suited for every gauge regardless if the layout is small or rather big, because the cabling is easily made: with normal network cable connected through the modules, or if need be, divided by ‚Sternpunkts’ (= star points), one simply ‚click’ them together, there is no ‚left’ or ‚right’ side to be observed.

Your shuttle (and the whole layout set up) would be programmed with the help of a pc control-program. I would suggest that you first get the demo-versions of the mentioned ones and try if you like them. Rome wasn’t built in a day, so take your time before you make a decision. As there is already a link to Rocrail I have added the other links, too:

Win-Digipet

Unfortunately ModellStellwerk is only in German or Dutch, but it's very like the prototype.

iTrain

Programming of the loco CV’s are effected via MS2 – it has full DCC support. The CAN-digital-Bahn Projekt wasn’t only started for enabling a connection to the computer for the MS2, but it works well with the CS2 (and under circumstances with other control units), too. For your purposes I assume, the MS2 could be sufficient and a bigger control unit <maybe> would be overdone.

Anyway, you wrote about limitations concerning the ability of building your layout by yourself and that you are trying to get assistance for that at your place in Norway. I would propose that you contact the CAN-digital-Bahn Project directly via mail, they surely can give you further ideas and help you with some support.
kind regards,
Rhapsody
Offline kbvrod  
#10 Posted : 02 September 2012 21:48:31(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,597
Location: Beverly, MA
Hi all,

>My final point for the time being, is how strongly would you and others advice me to Use the MS2 as the main DCC controller/ station,when compared to other systems out there,which I know are nearly all so much more expensive
I know I paid over £450 for my NCE DCC system with extra Cab/PS e.t.c.(The one never opened and sold at a lossThumbDown<

Excuse me but how can you give a thumbs down to a system you never even usedConfused

Dr Dirt
Offline 1spur  
#11 Posted : 03 September 2012 12:37:24(UTC)
1spur

Norway   
Joined: 16/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 65
Location: Kristiansand
Hello kbvrod
Good to hear from you

Quote:
Excuse me but how can you give a thumbs down to a system you never even usedConfused

Dr Dirt


Blinksimple I was not giving thumbs down to NCE (which is brilliant I understand) if you look closely it was supposed to be thums down for the fact I sold it at a big lossThumpUp

all the best SteveBigGrin

Offline 1spur  
#12 Posted : 03 September 2012 13:09:45(UTC)
1spur

Norway   
Joined: 16/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 65
Location: Kristiansand
eroncelli

Many thanks for your reply ,along with everyone elses,so very much appreciated.
Re your link to http://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.php I thank you for that.

#In my particular case and I say this most humbly, I need it to be simple? now I know it is not at all easy for you guys out there to know what is easy and what is not,that would be a little difficult,but if you could possibly hang in there with me,hopefully we can reach a good balance as to which programme to run and which system to use?

what I need as Rhapsody so kindly pointed out:-

Quote:
Anyway, you wrote about limitations concerning the ability of building your layout by yourself and that you are trying to get assistance for that at your place in Norway. I would propose that you contact the CAN-digital-Bahn Project directly via mail, they surely can give you further ideas and help you with some support.
I will certainly email CAN-digital-Bahn Project and ask if they can help me.
I do not pretend to even begin to understand the project,suppose it will take time,as you said Rome was not built in a day!

This would apply to which ever software programme/System I finally went with?

Quote:
In my opinion the CAN-modules are suited for every gauge regardless if the layout is small or rather big, because the cabling is easily made: with normal network cable connected through the modules, or if need be, divided by ‚Sternpunkts’ (= star points), one simply ‚click’ them together, there is no ‚left’ or ‚right’ side to be observed.

Your shuttle (and the whole layout set up) would be programmed with the help of a pc control-program. I would suggest that you first get the demo-versions of the mentioned ones and try if you like them. Rome wasn’t built in a day, so take your time before you make a decision. As there is already a link to Rocrail I have added the other links, too:


The above I beleive offers great opportunity for me,I am very excited reading the above and I hope it can all be integrated in to the final layout which obviously will take a fair bit of planning.will look at the Pc-Control programmes you list and hopefully will be able to understandBlushing

HO
Thank you for pointing that out to me,much obliged so if I am correct StromSniffer would interact with for example

'CAN-digital-Bahn Projekt'? Hope you guys have patience it can be hard work with me,i did have full brain fuction onceWoot but even then it was not great!

Quote:
Automatic operation (even if it's just a simple shuttle train) normally requires feedback from the layout to the controlling "computer" - the controller must know which tracks are free and which tracks are occupied.

That's what the StromSniffer does.


DANLAKE

Thank you for your kind welcome much appreciated.

Quote:
I know nothing about Spur 1, but I will look forward to see photos as your layout progressThumpUp

Brgds - Lasse
I most certainly will do that...Fingers toes and everything crossed.

all the best SteveThumpUp
Offline 1spur  
#13 Posted : 03 September 2012 20:21:13(UTC)
1spur

Norway   
Joined: 16/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 65
Location: Kristiansand
Update 03/09 19:50

As you will have seen I replied earlier today to the several replies received.
Since then I have spent all day looking at all the suggested Pc Programmes,and especially the CAN-digital-Bahn Project!

I am well aware that many things that are new can be daunting at first glance and take time to get used to?having looked very closely at the above,I am still trying to comprehend how more = less? if you follow me.The PC programmes I can just about understand,and basically see what there function is.

and I am 100% sure that the CAN-digital-Bahn Project must be brilliant as Rhapsody so enthusiastically explained it.but as I looked at all the add on Module`s I could not help but think is there not a simpler way of achieving what i envisage? or am I really missing the point?

If for example: I buy the MS2; I then require something which connects, so i can run a shuttle,which offers the ability to programme in a variety (if Possible?) different shuttle options.Given the limited parameters of my intended layout.I do admit to never fully understanding how block sections.and lights/points all work in unison..just can not seem to get my head around it,but I would like the option to control signals,or should that be Signal (singular) maybe some ground signals/lights/buffer lights/ Yard lamps/building lights.
I just need to be able to understand how it all works ....

I have one observation regarding the Marklin Central Station 2,it seems mighty expensive for what it is and in comparison to other DCC Control set ups? or once again am I missing something here?

I was ort of thinking if I am going down the route of MS2 which is very good value,but then I have to add on modules from either CAN-digital-Bahn Project,or other accessory modules.then would it not be simpler to go for say the Uhlenbrock/Km1 system,but I suspect it to will require a few accessory modules to ?

anyway I think I have overdone the concentration today so will take a break

all the best Steve
Offline Rhapsody  
#14 Posted : 04 September 2012 22:20:51(UTC)
Rhapsody


Joined: 22/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: Lykstad, SH
Hello Steve,

please don’t worry, I admit, it is a lot of digital stuff that you need to relate together, but I’m sure, in the end you will see through it all. Just take your time for sorting it out. I now would like to try to explain some general points.

The MS2 steers your trains, the signals for your trains come from the Gleisbox (=trackbox), at which the MS2 is connected to. So, for simply running up and down your tracks the trains need the MS2 with trackbox only, but then this is without any automation and I guess you knew that already.

Now there is your end to end layout with possible return loop. If I understand it well then you wish to run it partly by automatic support. For this purpose you need a computer and a control program (e.g. Win-digipet, Rocrail, iTrain, Modellstellwerk etc.) plus some detectors (e.g. the ‚StromSniffers’ from CAN-digital-Bahn) in the tracks for feedback that will tell your computer where the trains are and where they are not. This way the program can calculate the possible routes your trains could take to shuttle. The computer gets the data from the StromSniffers via the interface called ‚CC-Schnitte’, that is also a module from CAN-digital-Bahn.

Instead of always going simply up and down your straight tracks, somewhere you will put some turnouts to create sidings. Here beside the detectors in the tracks you need a turnout-decoder that will move the turnouts. Again you can use a module from CAN-digital-Bahn, it is called ‚WeichenChef’ (= turnout chef ) and as an extra you will get the advantage that there will be a feedback from the turnout, too. (As you can see in the second video that I linked previously.) The control program reacts to this feedback and if need be, stops the trains when a turnout has not fully switched.

To recapitulate: for your end-to-end layout you would need...

MS2 and a trackbox from Märklin,

computer and a control program,

CC-Schnitte, Startpunkt, StromSniffer and WeichenChef from the CAN-digital-Bahn Project

I hope that this compilation makes everything a bit more clearly to you.


kind regards,
Rhapsody
Offline 1spur  
#15 Posted : 05 September 2012 06:43:43(UTC)
1spur

Norway   
Joined: 16/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 65
Location: Kristiansand
ThumpUp Rhapsody A Very Good Morning from Norway.

I really do not know how to thank you enough,for taking the time and trouble to explain things to me,yet again.
As we English say the pennies dropped!well almost and now I see what is required and how it is intended to work collectively.

Please can I ask a further related question if I may?As you know I am looking for someone to build this layout/Diorama?
Ideally it would be some one with the nessercary skills here in Norway,familiar with Spur1?Not sure at this stage if this will be possible.

I believe the best builders of what I envisage are more likely to be in Germany?and I will be asking folk if anyone can help.
Now knowing what I would like IE the shuttle and other aspects of control,would most builders use the Can Projekt modules or would they be more likely to suggest an alternative which still uses the MS" as the hub of control operations?Just thought I would ask.

once again a million thanks,it means a lot to me.

best wishes Steve
BigGrin

Offline 1spur  
#16 Posted : 05 September 2012 09:35:35(UTC)
1spur

Norway   
Joined: 16/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 65
Location: Kristiansand
UPDATE: 05/09 09:30

I meant to ask is the http JMRI syatem similar to the above PC programmes or does this serve a different function?

://jmri.sourceforge.net/

Alll The Best Steve
Offline Rhapsody  
#17 Posted : 05 September 2012 20:53:38(UTC)
Rhapsody


Joined: 22/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: Lykstad, SH
Hi Steve,

there’s no problem at all, don’t hesitate to pose your questions! It’s the only way to find out what you like to know! Wink

To be honest, I don’t know what most builders would suggest, because there are many ways to get your spur1 layout going and there are as many opinions as there are fellow railroaders.

Just have a look at this thread here... there are not many proposals regarding the connection of a MS2 to a computer. In fact, as much as I know, there is no other ready made interface than the CC-Schnitte for the MS2. And because your layout will be <relatively> small I assumed that the MS2 would be suited for your purpose.

You mentioned JMRI – I’m sorry, but I don’t know enough about this open source project, I only had a short look on the main page – to me it seems it might be a good choice if you are a skilled computer user and you pick a control unit but not one from Märklin. (Pls. have a look at the list of supported hardware.)
kind regards,
Rhapsody
Offline 1spur  
#18 Posted : 06 September 2012 00:00:07(UTC)
1spur

Norway   
Joined: 16/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 65
Location: Kristiansand
Good day Rhapsody
Very good to hear from you,much appreciated.

The only reason I asked the following question ,was because I was unaware if there were any alternatives to CC-Schitte? I am actually very encouraged by your reply and that the Can Projekt Modules could be the only real option to use with the MS2..Hope it did not look as though I was actively seeking an alternative? because I would be more than happy to use the the MS2.
I suppose in my clumsy way I was asking if there was a non PC programme way to achieve what I am looking for? and how that might work?


Quote:
To be honest, I don’t know what most builders would suggest, because there are many ways to get your spur1 layout going and there are as many opinions as there are fellow railroaders.

Just have a look at this thread here... there are not many proposals regarding the connection of a MS2 to a computer. In fact, as much as I know, there is no other ready made interface than the CC-Schnitte for the MS2. And because your layout will be <relatively> small I assumed that the MS2 would be suited for your purpose.


I have no objections to using the Moduals from can projekt and of course I can speak to prospective layout builder about it,and see what they feel,

Re the JIMRI Programme I was advised some time back to look at this,but I do not know how good it is or how user friendly it is or how it compares to the ones listed in this thread? although I seem to recall that people told me it is quite hard to learn and a bit nurdy,with no disrepect intended.

I have continyed today looking at the PC software and whilst it may take a while ato understand,if I am ablke to find someone to advice me from the Can Projeckt that would be superb

so once again many thanks indeed

Regards SteveBigGrin
Offline 1spur  
#19 Posted : 10 January 2013 12:37:37(UTC)
1spur

Norway   
Joined: 16/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 65
Location: Kristiansand
BigGrin To Rhapsody and other Fellow members;

I have now moved to my original thread re MS2 & how simply to achieve dual running of two small SPUR1 Tank Loco`s at the same time utilizing all there functions:IE SOUND/SMOKE/LIGHTS/ Point changing e.t.c.

I still need to find someone who maybe willing to help me out by building what in fact will be a large Spur1 Diorama (end to End?)
A UK dealer suggested using the BACHMANN DCC sytem does anyone know much about this and could it do what the MS2 alone can not?They suggested Bachmann as it was an inexpensive DCC system.

Rhapsody gave me much food for thought, when I first posted this thread last year.I have looked at and read (sometimes translated)most of the links given to me for PC control e.t.c.

The CAN-digital-Bahn Project! looks okay, but to my eyes at least maybe a bit to complex?Blushingthen I suppose most of these systems seem that way to folk like me?

Revisiting the Marklin CS2? how does this compare to the Uhlenbrock system both cost the same almost...just wondered if in my case at least it maybe better to go with a compact formula rather than losts of extra bits and cables e.t.c. just a thought

Please keep your suggestions coming

Many thanks SteveThumpUp
Offline 1spur  
#20 Posted : 10 January 2013 13:24:47(UTC)
1spur

Norway   
Joined: 16/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 65
Location: Kristiansand
RAPTOR REVISITED!RollEyes



I have just revisted the RAPTOR DIGITAL web site, luckily it was available in English I know I am not very good when it comes to DCC & Electronics in general but having read most of the information from Raptor it seems to offer more than I am looking for at a good price with lots of possible Train control upgrades?or am I missing something.

I intend to write to them to ask for further assistance but if anyone else as up to date feedback on the Raptor system please let me know

best wishes SteveBigGrin
Offline manos.g.darkadakis  
#21 Posted : 15 September 2014 16:31:15(UTC)
manos.g.darkadakis


Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: Athens, Greece
Originally Posted by: Rhapsody Go to Quoted Post
Hello Steve,

There is an interface called ‚CC-Schnitte 2.0’ which connects the MS2 (plus Gleisbox) to the pc and there are at least three control programs, Win-Digipet, ModellStellwerk and Rocrail which are free of charge as long as the demo-version will be sufficent. The fourth program that would work well with the CAN-modules is iTrain, but here the small version would cost some Euros.

[/url]


Hi
Trying to find the best way to connect my MS2 to a computer came by this post. I have checked also Rocrail and found no option for MS2 interface. But I guess since the connection goes from Gleisbox to CC-Schnitte then Rocrail treats the above as CS interface. Can you please confirm that?

Regards Blink
Offline RayF  
#22 Posted : 15 September 2014 19:41:06(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi Manos,

I have always beleived that the MS2 (and MS1) are incapable of being used with computer control. I think for a computer interface you need a CS or CS2.

Maybe someone with more knowledge can jump in here?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline manos.g.darkadakis  
#23 Posted : 17 September 2014 02:23:45(UTC)
manos.g.darkadakis


Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: Athens, Greece
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Hi Manos,

I have always beleived that the MS2 (and MS1) are incapable of being used with computer control. I think for a computer interface you need a CS or CS2.

Maybe someone with more knowledge can jump in here?


Ok Ray
thank for the input. It looks like it can be done though. All you need is the Gleisbox (control box) that comes with MS2 or CS2 and 2 pcs of hardware named "CC-Schnitte" and "Startpunkt" which are available here
http://www.can-digital-bahn.com/news.php, finally a usb cable will take you to a pc with proper software (these people have also 2 software packages to go with the set). I have also read that RR and iTrain can work with this setup. Of course this is all theory until w have someone who has actually did this.

I will report if I have any actual confirmation on this or I will try it myself, hi!
Regards Manos
manos.g.darkadakis attached the following image(s):
cc.JPG
Offline RayF  
#24 Posted : 17 September 2014 09:49:45(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Thanks Manos, I look forward to seeing how this works. I might try it myself if it's not too complicated.

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Moritz-BR365  
#25 Posted : 17 September 2014 11:33:08(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 682
Hello,
there is no doubt, that the CAN digital Bahn components work. I have only the StartPunkt to be able to connect a third MS2 to the Gleisbox. There is in meantime also an SpielPunkt to connect 4 additional MS2 to the Gleisbox.

Up to now, I don't need the PC connection, but it is the cheapest way to connect the railway to the PC.

Moritz
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Moritz-BR365
Offline manos.g.darkadakis  
#26 Posted : 17 September 2014 12:51:09(UTC)
manos.g.darkadakis


Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: Athens, Greece
Thank for the input Moritz, This is my opinion too...
Now on the quest of the best software...
Regards Manos
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by manos.g.darkadakis
Offline manos.g.darkadakis  
#27 Posted : 17 September 2014 12:53:53(UTC)
manos.g.darkadakis


Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: Athens, Greece
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Manos, I look forward to seeing how this works. I might try it myself if it's not too complicated.



Ray it seems quite straightforward and they even supply the proper cables. I will give it a try as it is the best choice for computer control and do have many around doing nothing, hi!
Regards Manos SV1IW
Offline RayF  
#28 Posted : 17 September 2014 13:05:24(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
How do you do train detection? does one of these units connect to S88 decoders?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline manos.g.darkadakis  
#29 Posted : 17 September 2014 13:29:08(UTC)
manos.g.darkadakis


Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: Athens, Greece
Hi again Ray
As you nay have understand I am an absolute rookie so all I know is by reading and not from actually doing things. I know of one way to detect trains by using sensors (or contact generators) which actually send feedback to s88 decoders (60880 Marklin's today number), The decoder negotiates with the rail in which itis actually connected. All signals then are passed through the canbus (Rail->Gleisbox->start punkt->cc schnitte->pc) to the software to finally manage the trains. -If someone sees an error here, please correct for the benefit of all reading this.-
This is all I can tell for now. I would suggest to have a look ar RockRail program. The tutorial is very informative and it has also a demo set to check your understanding of doing things. Of course there are other software options which I will investigate in due time...Last but not least there may be other ways to detect trains as well. I am still investigating alternative ways frm the s88 decoder.
Regards Manos Sv1IW
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by manos.g.darkadakis
Offline RayF  
#30 Posted : 17 September 2014 13:44:00(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Thanks Manos,

The link above is not accessible from my work PC (Access Denied) so I'll have to wait until I get home to read about these units.

Although I'm not likely to want to run my layout from a PC yet I wouldn't mind experimenting a bit. I look forward to finding out a bit more about a system which is potentially much cheaper than buying a CS2, ECOS or the like.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline manos.g.darkadakis  
#31 Posted : 17 September 2014 13:55:44(UTC)
manos.g.darkadakis


Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: Athens, Greece
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Manos,

The link above is not accessible from my work PC (Access Denied) so I'll have to wait until I get home to read about these units.

Although I'm not likely to want to run my layout from a PC yet I wouldn't mind experimenting a bit. I look forward to finding out a bit more about a system which is potentially much cheaper than buying a CS2, ECOS or the like.


Ray perhaps the security of the browser is set too tight. The site has active components and java. If it is ie try to lower the security by one level or use firefox. From here I can even see it from my raspberry pi linux machines. Or try to google it and see if this change things.

Regards Manos SV1IW
Offline RayF  
#32 Posted : 17 September 2014 14:17:32(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: manos.g.darkadakis Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Manos,

The link above is not accessible from my work PC (Access Denied) so I'll have to wait until I get home to read about these units.

Although I'm not likely to want to run my layout from a PC yet I wouldn't mind experimenting a bit. I look forward to finding out a bit more about a system which is potentially much cheaper than buying a CS2, ECOS or the like.


Ray perhaps the security of the browser is set too tight. The site has active components and java. If it is ie try to lower the security by one level or use firefox. From here I can even see it from my raspberry pi linux machines. Or try to google it and see if this change things.

Regards Manos SV1IW


I don't have permission to change settings on my work computers. Security is very tight in my business. I'll be home in a couple of hours and I can check there.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline manos.g.darkadakis  
#33 Posted : 18 September 2014 14:59:32(UTC)
manos.g.darkadakis


Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: Athens, Greece
Ok Ray, check it out as it has everything for a complete comouter control at logic prices and most information are in English as well...
One last question. I think that you are only using a MS2 for control. If so do you use sensing in the rails with s88's (or similar) and if so how you connect them to the MS2 with a 6050 controller, other?

Regards Manos SV1IW?
Offline RayF  
#34 Posted : 18 September 2014 18:02:32(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: manos.g.darkadakis Go to Quoted Post
Ok Ray, check it out as it has everything for a complete comouter control at logic prices and most information are in English as well...
One last question. I think that you are only using a MS2 for control. If so do you use sensing in the rails with s88's (or similar) and if so how you connect them to the MS2 with a 6050 controller, other?

Regards Manos SV1IW?


Hi Manos,

I only use manual control as my layout is small and I can only run two trains at a time. My reference to using s88s was as a possibility for a test of automation, in case I get a chance to build a bigger layout in the future.

Thanks for your interest!

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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