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Offline dpetersen  
#1 Posted : 04 September 2014 19:11:15(UTC)
dpetersen

United States   
Joined: 11/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 110
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Question about the length of time it takes to switch a turnout...I use Railroad & Co software to control my Marklin turnouts with 74491 mechanisms. I have already soldered across the micro-switch of all the mechanisms.

I still have an occasional issue when I run programs in the software that switch multiple turnouts at the same time. Sometimes the software shows a turnout has been switched, but in reality it has not. If I switch them individually in the software, they work fine.

I found that if I increase the switch time to 250ms it seems to help, fewer misfires.

My question is, what is the longest time that can be safely set without risk of burning out the mechanisms? I'm nervous about having the time set too high.

Thanks!

Dave Petersen
Offline Renato  
#2 Posted : 04 September 2014 19:35:59(UTC)
Renato

Italy   
Joined: 19/03/2004(UTC)
Posts: 976
Location: Gorizia, Italy
Hi Dave,

Only my thought: have you tried to put a pause between the commands in a row?

Maybe if several turnout solenoids are energized at the same time, the current could not be sufficient to move all the mechanisms (some are more current sensitive, whilst others are less) and you could have a voltage drop that reduces the current flowing through the turnout solenoids.

The current consumption of one turnout solenoid is not small, thus if you send the command to more solenoids, not all the turnouts are able to switch.

During the old analog times, I remember it was impossible to change the direction of more than 2 locomotives (sometimes it was impossible for 2 locomotives too...).

Cheers

Renato
Offline dpetersen  
#3 Posted : 04 September 2014 20:39:45(UTC)
dpetersen

United States   
Joined: 11/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 110
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Originally Posted by: Renato Go to Quoted Post

Only my thought: have you tried to put a pause between the commands in a row?


Renato,

Good idea! Sometimes it quickly tries to change 3 or more turnouts at the same time, which I think could cause a voltage drop. I will see I there is a "pause" option in the software.

I did notice that after setting the time to 250ms they seem to switch in order, rather than at the same time. If there is no "pause" option then this might be sufficient.

Thanks
Dave

P.S. I'm still curious about how long I can safely set the switch time, is it OK to go up to 500ms? Don't want a meltdown!!Crying
Dave Petersen
Offline MikeR  
#4 Posted : 04 September 2014 22:19:01(UTC)
MikeR

United States   
Joined: 26/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 263
Location: Denver
Hi Dave

I also run RR&Co TrainController and had a similar problem a few months back. My turnouts also have the micro-switches shorted out.

I tried extending the pulse time as well as lengthening the pause between turnouts being thrown in TC. My problem was especially noticeable when the TC software activated a route containing 5 turnouts when the last, or second to last, turnout didn't throw. I set the same turnout sequence for a specific route in the CS2 and testing with various timings on the pulse length and pause between pulses never had a problem. In fact the default CS2 pulse (I have forgotten the length) with no interval between pulses worked every time.

I therefore replaced my 8 year old PC and since then have not had the problem again. My old PC obviously didn't have the processing power required by TC and missed sending the command to the CS2 through overwork.

Perhaps you can try a similar approach, as my tests clearly pointed to a problem with my PC.
Mike
Digital - C track with CS2 and Railroad&Co TrainController; feedback using LocoIO via a Locobuffer
Analog - M track with solid centre rail (after C track layout is complete)
Collect all Eras - especially Crocodiles
Member of ETE
Previously a member of the Marklin Modellers' Group Johannesburg
Offline dpetersen  
#5 Posted : 04 September 2014 23:45:40(UTC)
dpetersen

United States   
Joined: 11/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 110
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Originally Posted by: MikeR Go to Quoted Post
I therefore replaced my 8 year old PC and since then have not had the problem again. My old PC obviously didn't have the processing power required by TC and missed sending the command to the CS2 through overwork.

Perhaps you can try a similar approach, as my tests clearly pointed to a problem with my PC.


Mike,

My laptop is quite old and in fact the internal CMOS battery died, so it's no longer tracking time accurately. It does struggle running the software and so no doubt is due to be replaced.

Maybe it's time to go shopping for a new one...

Dave

Dave Petersen
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by dpetersen
Offline Renato  
#6 Posted : 05 September 2014 00:32:51(UTC)
Renato

Italy   
Joined: 19/03/2004(UTC)
Posts: 976
Location: Gorizia, Italy
Hi Dave,

The CMOS battery is intended only for backup the configuration parameters and the date/time of your PC, it is not used for the timing of all the operations performed by the microprocessor of your PC.

It could be possible to change the battery, but maybe the PC is not suitable to run Railroad & Co software (have a look at the software producer anyway).

Cheers

Renato
Offline dpetersen  
#7 Posted : 05 September 2014 06:11:47(UTC)
dpetersen

United States   
Joined: 11/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 110
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Originally Posted by: Renato Go to Quoted Post

The CMOS battery is intended only for backup the configuration parameters and the date/time of your PC, it is not used for the timing of all the operations performed by the microprocessor of your PC.


Sorry, I meant to say the RTC battery

I'm not sure if I'm going to bother, there are other problems with it and it's time to upgrade.

Dave
Dave Petersen
Offline cookee_nz  
#8 Posted : 05 September 2014 07:10:18(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,949
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: dpetersen Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Renato Go to Quoted Post

Only my thought: have you tried to put a pause between the commands in a row?


Renato,

Good idea! Sometimes it quickly tries to change 3 or more turnouts at the same time, which I think could cause a voltage drop. I will see I there is a "pause" option in the software.

I did notice that after setting the time to 250ms they seem to switch in order, rather than at the same time. If there is no "pause" option then this might be sufficient.

Thanks
Dave

P.S. I'm still curious about how long I can safely set the switch time, is it OK to go up to 500ms? Don't want a meltdown!!Crying


If I can add my 2c worth, I would suggest that knowing the generally rugged state of Marklin products I would be safe with full seconds rather than ms.

Remember that these are still anticipated to be used regularly by direct control and by children. Ever watched a kid (or an adult for that matter) operate a marklin pushbutton? You will find the button held for a good 1-2 seconds and no damage.

Personally I think it could take 5-10 seconds or more to burn one out but you'd want to take your source into account.

ie a 52va trafo would warm it up quicker but I think you would be safe with a pulse up to at least 1 sec / 1000ms :-)
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by cookee_nz
Offline pederbc  
#9 Posted : 05 September 2014 08:20:38(UTC)
pederbc

Sweden   
Joined: 11/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 180
Location: Eslöv, Sweden
Hi,

According to the manual of Märklin m83 turnout decoder (60831) the recommended switch times are:

C: 250ms
K: 500ms
M: 1000ms

These settings are normally controlled by the decoder itself or from the command station. The setting in Traincontroller is the pause between each switch. Traincontroller will switch one turnout at the time. Even if you set the Traincontroller to 10 seconds, the actual switching time is still controlled by the decoder/CS.

/Peder
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by pederbc
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