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Offline sjlauritsen  
#101 Posted : 26 August 2014 15:28:01(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark

Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Anders, I don't think any company deliberatley introduces bugs I think it has more to do with technicians.


Being a software developer myself, I can assure everyone that neither me or my coworkers deliberately puts bugs into a system that someone else has to buy with their hard earned money. That being said, the work that goes into developing a system like the CS2 is gigantic and the hours put into testing is many. At the end of the day, bugs do slip through to the end user, simply because it is impossible to take every aspect into consideration. We can predict a lot, but we cannot predict everything - we try though.


Eventually updates are released to fix the problems, but it is not always possible to solve every problem. In order to solve a problem, one must be able to reproduce the problem in the lab, and that is not always possible. Why? Because sometimes there is not enough information about the bug. I can only encourage everybody that experience problems with their system to send an e-mail to Märklin including software version, firmware version, hw version and so on. Including as much details as possible on how to reproduce the bug. Perhaps screenshots of the CS2 screen if an error occurs there. Rather too much information than too little. Perhaps it is just that bit of extra information that allows the bug to be reproduced.
Oh and btw.: a positive text tends to get better treatment than a text with "you're an ****" written between the lines - just a friendly advice.


And bugfixing has deadlines too. Even if you are not a software developer, I am sure you have tried having your pushy boss tell you, that whatever you are doing, get it done NOW! So you do the best you can with the insanely little time they have given you, some times that is not enough, you know that, but what can you do. The bugs that get the most attention is often the bugs that have the most complaints. Eventually the system will have fewer bugs.


I am pretty sure that whoever writes the code for the CS2 are proud of their work, and I am sure they are aware of every single bug that have been mentioned, but I am also sure that they suffer from the same problems as everybody else: There is only so and so much time to fix them.


 

Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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Offline MikeR  
#102 Posted : 26 August 2014 16:21:51(UTC)
MikeR

United States   
Joined: 26/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 263
Location: Denver
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post


Program with the bugs makes technician(CS2) not working propably.



Hi Anders

I am a CS2 user and recently updated the software to the latest version - a straightforward and simple operation via my computer. I have been using the CS2 to run my trains and so far I have not identified any 'bugs' in the latest system that I loaded. I find that the additional features (added complexity?!) simplify the operation of my layout. This includes the ability to load track diagrams which assist with ensuring that the correct turnouts are thrown for the route that I have selected. I no longer have to remember the numbers of the turnouts to be thrown and, in addition, the existing turnout position is shown in the diagram. This is a complex part of the CS2 software which has made my train operating sessions more enjoyable. I am not using the S88 feedbacks to automate the running of my trains.

I have not tried mfx+ so there may be issues in that part of the software. Although the complexity has definitely increased, up until now, my experience of the recent software upgrades is that there are relatively few problems. To my mind this indicates that the CS2 technicians have been doing their job and the quality control function is identifying and correcting 'bugs' before the software is released. Of course this could change with the next software update which is due to be released in the next week or two.

I am a relatively recent convert to a CS2 and have never used a MS. I therefore cannot comment on 'bugs' that might have existed when the MS, CS1 and CS2 were initially released. I endorse your issue of not being able to upgrade the MS software without a CS2 and understand why this will add to your frustration and result in you considering the MS/CS controllers to be incomplete. Marklin should remedy this situation as soon as possible as the MS controller, like the CS2, must be easily upgradeable using a computer.

Overall, because of my experience, I consider the CS2 to be a complete and trouble-free system and a significant improvement from both analogue and 6021 operation.
Mike
Digital - C track with CS2 and Railroad&Co TrainController; feedback using LocoIO via a Locobuffer
Analog - M track with solid centre rail (after C track layout is complete)
Collect all Eras - especially Crocodiles
Member of ETE
Previously a member of the Marklin Modellers' Group Johannesburg
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Offline Purellum  
#103 Posted : 26 August 2014 20:36:59(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

No

Per.

Edit: Ups, didn't realise we where on page 3 BigGrin

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline RayF  
#104 Posted : 26 August 2014 20:58:40(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

No

Per.

Edit: Ups, didn't realise we where on page 3 BigGrin

Cool


Is this a No?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Purellum  
#105 Posted : 26 August 2014 21:15:41(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Quote:
Is this a No?


Yes.

I mean No.

I mean, yes, this is a No.

Crying

Damn.

BigGrin

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
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Offline Webmaster  
#106 Posted : 26 August 2014 21:36:24(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Webmaster
Offline river6109  
#107 Posted : 27 August 2014 05:53:21(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
another completely wasted page except Soren actually telling us what is going on with bugs and how to get rid of them and how to help technicians to make it easier for them to give as many information about the bug(s) but laughing about it seem to fix anything these days, I found it to be a cure for almost anything or everything.
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline nevw  
#108 Posted : 10 September 2014 23:25:47(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
No dictionary has ever been able to define the difference between "complete" and "finished." However, in a linguistic conference, held in London England, and attended by some of the best linguistics in the world, Samsundar Balgobin, a Guyanese was the clever winner.

His final challenge was this. Some say there is no difference between "complete" and "finished." Please explain the difference in a way that is easy to understand.

His response was:
When you marry the right woman, you are "complete." If you marry the wrong woman, you are "finished." And if the right one catches you with the wrong one, you are "completely finished."

His answer received a five minute standing ovation.

NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Offline leahcim  
#109 Posted : 11 September 2014 00:20:54(UTC)
leahcim

Australia   
Joined: 12/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 40
Location: QUEENSLAND, BRISBANE
It's human nature to make mistakes, even the best engineering professions have had their disasters.

I'll link you to one of the best known disasters in software engineering

If you start at the beginning you'll see some of the best organisations and companies have had disastrous flaws in their software.
Intel
NASA
Toyota
ESA
just to name a few.

I think it really comes down to personal choices of features you like. Like in any other product field. For example, Apple and Samsung phones both have had bugs and updates and there are many who believe one is better than the other. But neither is perfect or "complete" if by that you mean they are bug free or don't need updating.

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Offline Goofy  
#110 Posted : 11 September 2014 09:22:39(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: nevw Go to Quoted Post
No dictionary has ever been able to define the difference between "complete" and "finished." However, in a linguistic conference, held in London England, and attended by some of the best linguistics in the world, Samsundar Balgobin, a Guyanese was the clever winner.

His final challenge was this. Some say there is no difference between "complete" and "finished." Please explain the difference in a way that is easy to understand.

His response was:
When you marry the right woman, you are "complete." If you marry the wrong woman, you are "finished." And if the right one catches you with the wrong one, you are "completely finished."

His answer received a five minute standing ovation.



And i will say:"Who is perfect...!?"
We use and abuse togehter in the communities.
It happens same way in the free market.
Märklin knows that,by present new digital system as complex system.
So long as there is no complete digital system,you can never been satisfaction with an product.

By the way about Samsundar Balgobin...he support the system by doing the "Game".
To present women like that,says he don´t like them.
"I fool,you fool and we fool ourselves".
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline kiwiAlan  
#111 Posted : 11 September 2014 10:27:20(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
To present women like that,says he don´t like them.


I don't believe that for a moment. The original quote reminds me of something someone else I knew used to say, and it went something like this - If you marry the right woman, there is nothing like it, and if you marry the wrong woman there is nothing like it!

I suspect a major part of the problem Anders, is that the way you are presenting your argument about 'not a complete system' is getting confused because your message is coming across as meaning something which I don't think is what you intend, because your written English is not coming across well. I DO NOT mean this as a criticism. Your English is way better than my Swedish capabilities are ever going to be.
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Offline Goofy  
#112 Posted : 11 September 2014 12:29:02(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
To present women like that,says he don´t like them.


I don't believe that for a moment. The original quote reminds me of something someone else I knew used to say, and it went something like this - If you marry the right woman, there is nothing like it, and if you marry the wrong woman there is nothing like it!

I suspect a major part of the problem Anders, is that the way you are presenting your argument about 'not a complete system' is getting confused because your message is coming across as meaning something which I don't think is what you intend, because your written English is not coming across well. I DO NOT mean this as a criticism. Your English is way better than my Swedish capabilities are ever going to be.


You don´t believe that for a moment...
That is typical by thinking to byself.
I did created topic by present Märklins digital system is not complete system,which is not even critical topic from me.

By the way of marry with right or wrong woman...is up to yourself.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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