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Offline Dangermouse  
#1 Posted : 16 August 2014 18:37:51(UTC)
Dangermouse

United Kingdom   
Joined: 01/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 115
Location: Wales
I keep being tempted by a 60212 for £150. It looks as though it had very little use, is boxed with all the cables and so on.

Is that a good deal or am I likely to end up with a £150 brick after it has a meltdown? I remember a lot of people having trouble with the CS1 at release, which is why I bought a 6021 instead. I previously had an MS1 which worked perfectly, until I switched it off one evening, went for dinner, came back, turned the power on...and it was dead.

Are updates still available for the CS1? I've researched the ESU route but that seems to have dried up now.
You can never have too many Silberlinge
Offline steventrain  
#2 Posted : 16 August 2014 20:24:46(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,606
Location: United Kingdom
What is the software version?
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline H0  
#3 Posted : 16 August 2014 20:26:38(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
It depends a lot which version the CS1 already has.

Version 2.0.3 can be installed by Märklin only if it still has version 1.x.x (I think they still do it for free, but you'll have to pay postage).
If it has 2.0.3 already, then you can download version 2.0.4 from Märklin and install it yourself.

If it has version 3.0.0 or higher from ESU then you can download the latest version from ESU and install it yourself.

Is it worth it? With version 3.0.0 or higher I'd say Yes.
With version 2.0.x it depends on your expectations.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline Dangermouse  
#4 Posted : 16 August 2014 20:54:33(UTC)
Dangermouse

United Kingdom   
Joined: 01/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 115
Location: Wales
That's the part I don't know. The only clue in the images is the manual half-hidden behind the box, which has the word "update" on the front. Are V2.0 versions more reliable than V1.0?


TBH I'm more inclined to go after a nice V200 that they're also selling, if they still have it in a week or two!
You can never have too many Silberlinge
Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 16 August 2014 21:11:00(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
Version 2.0 has more connectors and a firmware with more capabilities.

My CS1 came with software 2.0.3, so I don't know that the improvements over 1.6.x are.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#6 Posted : 16 August 2014 23:12:13(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,663
Location: New Zealand
Matt, v2 CS1's should have a red sticker on the bottom of the unit to signify that it has the v2 hardware and software upgrades.

ESU in Europe no longer supply the CS1 Reloaded update pack (which updates a v2 CS1 to v3), but you may be able to obtain it through ESU USA via a US / North American dealer (which is what I did this time last year).

Personally, I would not buy a CS1 that was anything less than v2.
Offline Oliver nagel  
#7 Posted : 17 August 2014 04:10:20(UTC)
Oliver nagel

United States   
Joined: 30/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 121
Location: Allegany
The Cs1 is now about 10 years old which is old for a computer. Marklin dosen't support it anymore, ESU dosen't sell the 3.0 update anymore. ESU and Marklin both don't repair then anymore. Leave it.
Offline Johnvr  
#8 Posted : 17 August 2014 08:00:30(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,269
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Originally Posted by: Dangermouse Go to Quoted Post
... which is why I bought a 6021 instead...


Hi,

I also have a 6021 and Keyboards and Memory and s88 as my main controllers.

I recently purchased a CS1 and I am delighted with the purchase.

It allows me to programme my digital locos with Braking Delays and Acceleration on a visual screen which you can't do with a 6021.
It also allows me to connect my 6021 Output to the CS1 Input, and operate with with both controllers simultaneously, in order words, there is full compatibility between 6021 and associated hardware with the CS1.
It continues to let me use the Keyboards and Memory and s88 connections connected to my 6021 just as I did before, in addition to being able to switch items on the CS1 keyboard.
I can see the full range of sound functions on the CS1, which is something you can only do on the 6021 if you programme the CV functions.
You can also connect a MS1 later if you want a hand held controller.
It's much cheaper than a CS2 !

Ok, there seem to be some things you may not like, for example the orange screen, a sometimes slow reaction from the CS1 dials, some software issues, etc.

But at $150 it will be fun to play with, and if you later decide to go CS2, well you are likely to get your $150 investment back when you sell it.

Regards,BigGrin
John



thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Johnvr
Offline kiwiAlan  
#9 Posted : 17 August 2014 16:58:38(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,101
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Dangermouse Go to Quoted Post
That's the part I don't know. The only clue in the images is the manual half-hidden behind the box, which has the word "update" on the front. Are V2.0 versions more reliable than V1.0?


TBH I'm more inclined to go after a nice V200 that they're also selling, if they still have it in a week or two!


If it has the word 'update' then it sounds like it has had the hardware+software update that allows user updates. The hardware update is also important as an additional PCB is fitted that allows s88 devices and 6015 boosters to be attached. Note that to attach a 6015 booster there is a special cable that goes between the cs1 and the booster that mangles the pin connections. Subsequent boosters can then be daisy chained off the first one.

I would ask for a demonstration of the cs1 working with a loco. I have one that I bought on ebay which will not detect mfx locos and doesn't seem to drive any loco. I believe that although it came with the most recent update (at the time I bought it) it had been fried with an earlier update which disabled the output current limit on the output stage, and an attempt had been made to 'fix' this by updating the software, when it needs a hardware repair. So get it demonstrated to make sure you are buying a device that operates.

One day I will get around to digging inside and fixing it.
Offline Dangermouse  
#10 Posted : 18 August 2014 12:36:25(UTC)
Dangermouse

United Kingdom   
Joined: 01/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 115
Location: Wales
Here's the listing

The cable with the green plug does indeed look like a connector to go between the CS1 and a booster. However, there's no sign of the transformer and the unit isn't shown working. The seller is excellent about refunds (I bought a shunter from them a few months ago which was DOA, a return had been accepted within an hour of my emailing about it), but obviously it's a hassle having to post it back if it doesn't work. Plus I'd have to rebuild my 49960 measuring coach as the CS1 can't address the original Motorola format, which looks like a lot of precision soldering and opportunity to bork it terminally. I think I'll leave this one, if anyone else is interested then I can heartily recommend the seller, he has a load of other Marklin stuff in his shop at very sane prices.
You can never have too many Silberlinge
Offline Renato  
#11 Posted : 18 August 2014 13:04:23(UTC)
Renato

Italy   
Joined: 19/03/2004(UTC)
Posts: 976
Location: Gorizia, Italy
Originally Posted by: Dangermouse Go to Quoted Post
I think I'll leave this one, if anyone else is interested then I can heartily recommend the seller, he has a load of other Marklin stuff in his shop at very sane prices.

But he charges £50.00 (or even more) for delivery to Italy. Confused

Cheers

Renato
Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 18 August 2014 13:13:10(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Dangermouse Go to Quoted Post
However, there's no sign of the transformer and the unit isn't shown working.
They write "Transformer Condition: 99.9% Mint - very little use comes with a British plug", but it can't harm to ask them if a transformer (and which one) is really included.

Originally Posted by: Dangermouse Go to Quoted Post
Plus I'd have to rebuild my 49960 measuring coach as the CS1 can't address the original Motorola format
According to the manual the 60212 can control the 49960 coach (I don't have such a coach, therefore I cannot verify this).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Dangermouse  
#13 Posted : 18 August 2014 13:22:25(UTC)
Dangermouse

United Kingdom   
Joined: 01/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 115
Location: Wales
Originally Posted by: Renato Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dangermouse Go to Quoted Post
I think I'll leave this one, if anyone else is interested then I can heartily recommend the seller, he has a load of other Marklin stuff in his shop at very sane prices.

But he charges £50.00 (or even more) for delivery to Italy. Confused

Cheers

Renato


Yep, should probably have said that was a recommendation for UK buyers!

I think you're seeing the opposite end of what we see with mainland European ebay sellers, where some of them charge £15 or so to post a single coach.
You can never have too many Silberlinge
Offline kiwiAlan  
#14 Posted : 18 August 2014 16:56:49(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,101
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Dangermouse Go to Quoted Post
Here's the listing

The cable with the green plug does indeed look like a connector to go between the CS1 and a booster. However, there's no sign of the transformer and the unit isn't shown working. The seller is excellent about refunds (I bought a shunter from them a few months ago which was DOA, a return had been accepted within an hour of my emailing about it), but obviously it's a hassle having to post it back if it doesn't work. Plus I'd have to rebuild my 49960 measuring coach as the CS1 can't address the original Motorola format, which looks like a lot of precision soldering and opportunity to bork it terminally. I think I'll leave this one, if anyone else is interested then I can heartily recommend the seller, he has a load of other Marklin stuff in his shop at very sane prices.


It certainly looks like a complete set of cables. There is also a cable to connect to the C-Track connection where you would plug in an MS1, and I think the figure-8 cable is the cable to go to the power supply.

These will drive a 49960 or any of the other original Motorola format accessory devices. They always could do, it was just that with the v1 software they didn't have them set up in the menu. I remember running the 4999 Restaurant car when Gaugemaster first had the seminar when the Cs1 was first introduced. It did have problems as I don't think they had the mfx properly sorted so it didn't interfere with the original Motorola format, but later on these devices were included in the menu selection.
Offline steventrain  
#15 Posted : 18 August 2014 17:49:25(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,606
Location: United Kingdom
CS1 with update manual download in PDF 6MB

>Germany/English< Turn to page 24 to 44 for English.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline Dangermouse  
#16 Posted : 18 August 2014 21:56:50(UTC)
Dangermouse

United Kingdom   
Joined: 01/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 115
Location: Wales
You chaps want me to buy this, don't you! [/joke]

I no longer have the "ugly box" from my MS1 (converted it to a conventional wired connection to use with the 6021 by pulling the box off and soldering a long two-core cable to the terminals under the track), so would have to obtain another. Unless the CS1 has terminals for plain wires?
You can never have too many Silberlinge
Offline H0  
#17 Posted : 18 August 2014 22:07:10(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
The CS1 should come with two plugs (one for main track, one for programming track) that can be used along with plain wires or e.g. the 74040 set to feed current to C track. You do not have to use the cable that connects to the ugly box.
In starter sets they either included one plug and the cable for the ugly box or two plugs without the cable for the ugly box.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Dangermouse  
#18 Posted : 18 August 2014 22:25:57(UTC)
Dangermouse

United Kingdom   
Joined: 01/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 115
Location: Wales
Ok, I'm now onto "think about it for a couple of days before buying"!

I can't see any sign of those plugs, but there were part numbers in the manual Steven posted so they shouldn't be hard to find. I'll send the seller a message asking what cables are present and whether they've had it powered up, as it doesn't say anything about having tested it

Are the V2 versions a lot more reliable than the V1? Only I'm not willing to buy if they're as failure-prone as I remember them being at launch. This is a hefty chunk of my train budget so it needs to work.
You can never have too many Silberlinge
Offline kiwiAlan  
#19 Posted : 18 August 2014 22:50:40(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,101
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
The plugs are green ones similar to the booster one, but two pins instead of 5 or 6.

You can always mount the 'ugly box' under the layout.

The other trick, if you do get this, and at some point in the future get a CS2, the CS1 will act as a twin MS1 for the CS2 - if the CS1 has the most recent Marklin software in it. So it is not a case of toss out the cs1 if you get a cs2, just make sure you update it to the last Marklin software. It then needs an Ethernet connection between the two boxes to complete the system.
Offline Dangermouse  
#20 Posted : 18 August 2014 23:07:36(UTC)
Dangermouse

United Kingdom   
Joined: 01/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 115
Location: Wales
Guessing these are the plugs? £10 or so isn't as bad as I was expecting.

I'll send them a message and ask if they've had it powered up/run a loco with it. Like I said, they were excellent when I bought a loco from them a few months ago which was DOA, so I wouldn't expect any problems but it's still much less hassle if I don't have to send it back.
You can never have too many Silberlinge
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#21 Posted : 19 August 2014 00:39:01(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,663
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Dangermouse Go to Quoted Post
Guessing these are the plugs? £10 or so isn't as bad as I was expecting.


Those are the correct plugs, but seem rather expensive at around $10.50 NZD plus postage for two. I can get them from local electronics retailers for about $2 each.
Offline Dangermouse  
#22 Posted : 19 August 2014 09:12:19(UTC)
Dangermouse

United Kingdom   
Joined: 01/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 115
Location: Wales
I thought it might be a case of "If you buy the same item not in a Marklin bag it's cheaper".

Do the plugs have a technical name? Obviously typing "plugs" into Maplin or ebay produces an enormous pile of results!
You can never have too many Silberlinge
Offline AshleyH  
#23 Posted : 19 August 2014 13:02:21(UTC)
AshleyH

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 693
Location: Bournemouth, Dorset
The connection plugs for the track are the same as those used by ZTC on the 511 controller and ESU as well.

ZTC usually have them in stock, I think you may have to snip a plastic latch off to fit the CS1, but it's been a few years since I sold mine now.

For £150 I don't think you can go wrong, I was tempted to get it as a backup for my CS2 to be honest. Plug it in to a router and you can use TouchCab on your mobile phone as well.

Ashley
Offline AshleyH  
#24 Posted : 25 August 2014 10:13:50(UTC)
AshleyH

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 693
Location: Bournemouth, Dorset
So did you buy it, because I see it has now sold on eBay?
Offline Dangermouse  
#25 Posted : 26 August 2014 20:31:52(UTC)
Dangermouse

United Kingdom   
Joined: 01/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 115
Location: Wales
Nope, it got away!

I emailed the seller with the questions above but they're on holiday, so was waiting for an answer. Evidently someone else was braver (or possibly more foolhardy) than me!
You can never have too many Silberlinge
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