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Offline Goofy  
#1 Posted : 14 August 2014 20:42:50(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Last saterday i did upgrade my MS2 to version 2.3 at a hobby shop here in my hometown.
I did bought my MS2 in an danish hobby shop for three years ago.
This time i was forcement to pay 6€ to upgrade MS2 in the hobby shop in my hometown.
Is this normally to get paid by doing service like to upgrade system?
Are you paying too when you shall upgrade MS2 in a hobby shop?

Confused
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline RayF  
#2 Posted : 14 August 2014 20:59:57(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi Anders,

I guess they only charge you because you bought the MS2 from someone else. I would think if you bought it from them they would do it for free?

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline waorb  
#3 Posted : 14 August 2014 21:08:49(UTC)
waorb

Brazil   
Joined: 31/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 868
Location: Brazil
Fair or not, seems that they are charging you for their work... not for the upgrade itself. (since the code is freely available)

Maybe if the upgrade it's made on the same hobby shop that you bought, it'll be for free just to be kind with the customer.

Cheers,

Walter
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User is suspended until 21/07/4752 11:48:10(UTC) Barguest  
#4 Posted : 14 August 2014 22:32:16(UTC)
Barguest


Joined: 24/06/2014(UTC)
Posts: 41
I think ok to pay. You get MS2 upgrade and to work. If not work, take back with ticket and ask do again or money back.
Marklin should make way possible for MS2 owner update from internet free. Maybe make cable for connection to PC?
This way then system are complete or finish or what word you like. Then MS2 owner know marklin support them before make choice to CS2.
Alias for Mulldog Lemmon
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Offline sjlauritsen  
#5 Posted : 15 August 2014 06:08:20(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
If I was a store owner, I would not charge for an upgrade. I consider an upgrade a small effort for me, but great value to the customer. In the customer's mind they have a fairly complicated problem on their hand. I can solve it by pushing a button. The customer's problems is solved, and they did not even have to pay. I think the impression I make on the customer will be worth more than 6€. It falls in the category "you give some, you will get something back". The customer will have no problem coming back to the store, because of the service they get. They will buy more stuff, tell their friends and so on.

Of course, some customers might exploit that fact, but that would certainly not be the majority of customers. You win some, you loose some. At the end of the day it pays to be fair - at least that's how I like to think about it.

Store owners are free to do whatever they want. In Denmark some stores charge a whoppin' 14€ (~USD 18) to upgrade a Mobile Station to the newest software. What effort can it possibly be: You plug the thing in the CS2 and push "OK" to upgrade. Done!
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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Offline RayF  
#6 Posted : 15 August 2014 09:04:14(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I think it depends if the person is a regular customer.

Too many people today walk around a model shop, seeing all the goodies, maybe asking the shop keeper all kinds of questions, and then they go home and order from the internet. These customers should be charged for service of any kind, and for these I think €6 is actually dirt cheap, seeing as they spend nothing else in the shop typically.

On the other hand there is the regular customer who pre-orders from you, drops in regularly and buys on impulse, and probably leaves thousands of Euros of his money in your shop every year. This customer is entitled to receive excellent service from the shop, and would expect free upgrades and more!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Goofy  
#7 Posted : 15 August 2014 09:17:01(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
If I was a store owner, I would not charge for an upgrade. I consider an upgrade a small effort for me, but great value to the customer. In the customer's mind they have a fairly complicated problem on their hand. I can solve it by pushing a button. The customer's problems is solved, and they did not even have to pay. I think the impression I make on the customer will be worth more than 6€. It falls in the category "you give some, you will get something back". The customer will have no problem coming back to the store, because of the service they get. They will buy more stuff, tell their friends and so on.

Of course, some customers might exploit that fact, but that would certainly not be the majority of customers. You win some, you loose some. At the end of the day it pays to be fair - at least that's how I like to think about it.

Store owners are free to do whatever they want. In Denmark some stores charge a whoppin' 14€ (~USD 18) to upgrade a Mobile Station to the newest software. What effort can it possibly be: You plug the thing in the CS2 and push "OK" to upgrade. Done!


Last time i did upgrade MS2,it was free charge in same hobby shop,but now it was at prices of 6€...!
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline sjlauritsen  
#8 Posted : 15 August 2014 10:33:31(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
On the other hand there is the regular customer who pre-orders from you, drops in regularly and buys on impulse, and probably leaves thousands of Euros of his money in your shop every year. This customer is entitled to receive excellent service from the shop, and would expect free upgrades and more!

IMO potential new customers should get the same treatment. I would always choose the naive approach and treat every customer as a regular even if its their first time at the store. If afterwards that customer only comes back to ask questions and never buy anything, the service level may perhaps become different for that particular customer. Eventually that customer will go somewhere else.

Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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Offline Jay  
#9 Posted : 15 August 2014 10:47:40(UTC)
Jay

South Africa   
Joined: 01/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 303
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Sorry Soren, but that kind of person is not a costomer but a freeloader.
Jay
Offline sjlauritsen  
#10 Posted : 15 August 2014 11:00:25(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: Jay Go to Quoted Post
Sorry Soren, but that kind of person is not a costomer but a freeloader.

True, but you cannot know that from the beginning. My point is: Until proven otherwise, I would treat every customer as a regular customer - and of course that includes free upgrades.

Freeloaders come because they get struff for free - but only a small fraction of your customers would be freeloaders. You win some, you loose some, but in the end you would have gained more than you lost. If you become aware that a customer is a freeloader just change the service level for that particular person. Hey, you could even say to him: "I will charge you because you never buy anything". My bet is that he would either start buying stuff - or simply just stop coming. Either way you would have lost nothing.

Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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Jay
Offline RayF  
#11 Posted : 15 August 2014 12:12:03(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
My feeling is that a customer who comes into your shop for the first time to get something for free is not going to be a good customer, especially if he doesn't, while he's there, buy a whole lot of other stuff.

It's difficult to generalise, but I think the experienced shop owner will be able to tell the good from the bad as soon as they come in the door.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
User is suspended until 21/07/4752 11:48:10(UTC) Barguest  
#12 Posted : 15 August 2014 13:31:03(UTC)
Barguest


Joined: 24/06/2014(UTC)
Posts: 41
Mr Lauritsen is think right. I buy little order from local dealer. He treat me like he not care for me to come back.
I not come back. spend much money on internet instead. Dealer not get money for be not careful to say come back
Mr Goofy maybe pay 6e for problem to be fix. is worth worry to be happy?

Alias for Mulldog Lemmon
Offline RayF  
#13 Posted : 15 August 2014 13:36:38(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Of course, there's good and bad dealers as well as good and bad customers!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
User is suspended until 21/07/4752 11:48:10(UTC) Barguest  
#14 Posted : 15 August 2014 13:48:53(UTC)
Barguest


Joined: 24/06/2014(UTC)
Posts: 41
Dear Mr Rayf. You not very funny.
Alias for Mulldog Lemmon
User is suspended until 21/07/4752 11:48:10(UTC) Barguest  
#15 Posted : 15 August 2014 13:56:14(UTC)
Barguest


Joined: 24/06/2014(UTC)
Posts: 41
I wait for response
Alias for Mulldog Lemmon
Offline RayF  
#16 Posted : 15 August 2014 14:02:08(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Barguest Go to Quoted Post
Dear Mr Rayf. You not very funny.


I'm sorry. Did you take my comment badly? I did not mean to offend.

My last post was meant to say that there are bad dealers who put off good customers. I thought I was supporting what you had last said.

In a previous post I had been saying that good dealers should be able to tell who are the good customers who are going to spend money in their shops, from the bad customers who don't intend to spend any money.

It's very easy to be misunderstood on a forum where many don't have English as their first language. I apologise if I did not state clearly what I meant.

Please call me Ray, by the way. The "f" doesn't mean anything.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Webmaster  
#17 Posted : 15 August 2014 20:12:46(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
Anders, it's up to the shop keeper to charge for a service and it's up to you if you want to pay for it or not - or do the work by yourself...

It is not stated anywhere that upgrading at a shop is free, even if the updated software is free by itself.
If a shop cannot cannot charge for the software (ie manufacturer provides it for free), they can charge for
the service they provide in that shop... Just like the "free" Linux computer operating system consultants do...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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User is suspended until 21/07/4752 11:48:10(UTC) Barguest  
#18 Posted : 15 August 2014 23:30:49(UTC)
Barguest


Joined: 24/06/2014(UTC)
Posts: 41
dear mrRayf, thank for apologize.
You are ms2 owner yes? you say other place here you buy from store in Luxemburg and to buy from ebay also.
what then you do on upgrade you ms2? You pay shop in Luxemburg? Some other shop? Maybe friend has cs2?
MRGoofy did ask if others do this, but have he get no answer. Answers all about support local shop, not about support MRgoofy.
I say soon not to be offend. I do walk through world not with one eye closed. Please be understand.
Alias for Mulldog Lemmon
Offline RayF  
#19 Posted : 16 August 2014 00:29:01(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Barguest Go to Quoted Post
dear mrRayf, thank for apologize.
You are ms2 owner yes? you say other place here you buy from store in Luxemburg and to buy from ebay also.
what then you do on upgrade you ms2? You pay shop in Luxemburg? Some other shop? Maybe friend has cs2?
MRGoofy did ask if others do this, but have he get no answer. Answers all about support local shop, not about support MRgoofy.
I say soon not to be offend. I do walk through world not with one eye closed. Please be understand.


I have not yet upgraded my MS2. I will take it with me next time I go to Luxembourg on business and get it done there, but I think I might get another one as a spare first. I will expect that the shop may possibly charge me for the upgrade, but if I buy a locomotive from them at the same visit they might do it for free.

I personally think Anders (Goofy) was a bit too quick to get offended when he was asked €6 for the upgrade. €6 is nothing today. I've paid more for a cup of coffee. The shop was providing a service for which they are entitled to charge. Because I believe this I am supporting the shop in this case, and not Anders. Others may of course think differently. We don't all have to agree.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline H0  
#20 Posted : 16 August 2014 08:44:09(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Are you paying too when you shall upgrade MS2 in a hobby shop?
I never upgraded an MS2 in a Hobby Shop, so I never paid.

On Stummi's Forum they compiled a list of free upgrade opportunities for the MS2. Mostly these are private owners of either an MS2 or CS2 who are willing to share the upgrades with others.
List includes a few hobby shops who think like Søren and see this as a chance to invest a little free service into a potential future customer.

Obviously such a list works better for a site that has many German users.

This forum is international and the nearest user willing to help may still be very far away.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Goofy  
#21 Posted : 16 August 2014 09:47:27(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post


I personally think Anders (Goofy) was a bit too quick to get offended when he was asked €6 for the upgrade.


Nope...it was after upgrade hobby shop told to me it cost 6€.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline 3rail4life  
#22 Posted : 16 August 2014 10:00:42(UTC)
3rail4life

United States   
Joined: 23/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 426
Location: Northern California
I have to agree with all, who stated that shops should use the upgrade as an opportunity to enhance their relationship with their customers by offering it as a free service, but it is their business, if they feel the need to charge for it I am OK with that as well.

Should anyone in the US wish to get an upgrade for their MS2, no matter if you bought it from me Cool or not, I will do it for free, just pay the postage, which btw, will cost about $13 round trip, which makes that €6 sound not so bad.

The problem for most of us here in the states and in many other countries as well, is we have no local dealer to visit Sad.

Gordon


ps. pm for MS2 Ver2.3
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Offline franciscohg  
#23 Posted : 19 August 2014 06:10:26(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,265
Location: Patagonia
Originally Posted by: 3rail4life Go to Quoted Post


The problem for most of us here in the states and in many other countries as well, is we have no local dealer to visit Sad.

Gordon


ps. pm for MS2 Ver2.3



And that is so true.....i remember when i need to upgrade my MS1's to use them with my CS2, they had to travel to Sweden to a helpful member of the forum......so at the time 6 euro would be a great deal for me. On the other hand i think that is a good practice to do such upgrades for free, with a good and friendly service the chances to take something else from the store during the wait are high.
Regards
Francisco
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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Offline Emil  
#24 Posted : 22 August 2014 16:30:00(UTC)
Emil


Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: Sweden
I see that Anders is in Helsingborg. Of course I'm not sure, but I think that we've been to the same shop. Eurohobby.

www.eurohobby.se

I was passing Helsingborg on a trip to Denmark earlier this year and phoned the shop some days in advance to see if it was possible to get an update for my MS2.

H0 and some other users on here had suggested it would solve my problem with the MS not being able to use 126 speedsteps in DCC mode.

I got to speak with what I think was the shopkeepers wife. She was very sweet and said that I was more than welcome to bring my MS by. She also told me to bring the connecting box because it might have to be updated as well.

Said and done, on my way south through Sweden I of course got delayed by traffic (friday afternoon). The shop closes at 17.30. I roll up at 17.45.

To my surprise the shop was still open. They knew I was coming so they had stuck around in case I was delayed. The update took about ten minutes and I spent the time browsing the inventory. They have alot of landscape material in stock and also alot of (quite rare) N-gauge models.

When the update was done I asked how much I owed? (like I've been raised to do, I don't expect anything in any shop to be free. These people need to make a living like all of us)

The shopkeeper replied: Well, ( long thinking pause) ...50 kronor. (5.4€)

I actually felt bad it was so cheap and since they'd been so nice to me, keeping the store open until I arrived. I bought some other things just to make the amount a bit bigger so it would be worth their while.

They also offer to update mobile stations that you send to them. So if you don't have anywhere to get an update. Give them a call or send them an e-mail to see if you can arrange for an update.

I think 5.4€ /update is cheap if it saves you the 699€ that a CS2 cost if you don't need one. I will probably soon buy one anyway though. :)

Highly recommended shop!


Emil
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Offline Goofy  
#25 Posted : 23 August 2014 20:31:14(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Hi Emil!
Yes...Eurohobby are very nice hobby store and Claes with his lovely wife Carina are very nice people.
Claes are very good to fix Märklin locomotivs and he rebuild sound decoder,if you like so.
Today i did visit them and did bought K-tracks.
To upgrade MS2 at Eurohobby are very quick and gently.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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