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Offline Tiki734  
#1 Posted : 16 August 2014 04:48:08(UTC)
Tiki734

Australia   
Joined: 13/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 227
Location: Perth
Hi
I don't want to spoil the party for the seller on EBay US but I sure there are a few of us looking at the 352 and 353 LMS passenger wagons currently up for auction. I do not have a copy of the special catalogue which was produced for the 1938 market which detailed the LMS and LNER items but looking at Koll's the 353LMS was never made and lo and behold here is one. To me it looks a counterfeit. Anyone got a real one that can compare. If you have a look at German EBay there is one which is even stranger which has LMS on one side and the hand stamped MITROPA on the other. The seller is asking 1000 Euros. You would have to be pretty keen to take that chance.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/...eName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Roger
Offline Dangermouse  
#2 Posted : 16 August 2014 17:05:58(UTC)
Dangermouse

United Kingdom   
Joined: 01/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 115
Location: Wales
They look just a bit too perfect. I'd be happy to get a finish that good on a new paint job now, let alone 70 years after it was applied! I notice that one of the solebars has a bit of flaking paint while the bodywork is unblemished, which seems odd. There also seems to be some paint bleed around the slots in the floor that the tabs holding the sides fit into, I can't see Marklin being happy to let anything leave the factory like that.

Also note "No returns" in the listing, which isn't what I'd expect on a valuable item and rings alarm bells. Not sure why people put that in, as if the item isn't as described then ebay will refund the buyer and take the money from the seller's account anyway.
You can never have too many Silberlinge
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Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#3 Posted : 16 August 2014 17:06:06(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,605
Hi Roger,

Although the 1938 British catalog doesn't have the 353 LMS listed, I believe it was originally sold by Marklin. I saw the two cars you linked as well and have my doubts about originality. The on on eBay-DE is a supposed "back stamped" version of the LMS car. After the war broke out, Marklin had many LMS/LNER products that were converted back to regular German-market trains so the LMS stamps were removed. Whether this car is original or not is hard to say because these cars are easily faked.

Best,

Paul
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Offline jvuye  
#4 Posted : 17 August 2014 07:39:36(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
This cries "forgery" loud and clear.
The golden "LMS" print has a different color from the horizontal stripes.
The good condition of the bodies are in such contrast with the desolate state of the chassis...
No way JoséLaugh !
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline Tiki734  
#5 Posted : 17 August 2014 11:05:49(UTC)
Tiki734

Australia   
Joined: 13/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 227
Location: Perth
I contacted the seller on some other items he has for sale and he comes over as very honest and does not know their potential rarety. He has advertised them as junk so it is not right that he should be out of pocket due to ebay taking any sale amount. The new buyer may well think they are real and of some value. Unfortunately I would only risk about $50 each purely for a novelty. I bet they will go over $400. Some of the other items the seller had were quite unusual like the red crane 366 and once again nothing in Koll's. They occasionally come up for sale so they appear genuine
Roger
Offline igf2  
#6 Posted : 20 August 2014 19:44:30(UTC)
igf2


Joined: 29/04/2010(UTC)
Posts: 268
Location: France
Well they were sold for 1500 USD, which is a pretty amount just for fakes...but I am not so sure that they really were fakes...
Offline Tiki734  
#7 Posted : 21 August 2014 01:50:05(UTC)
Tiki734

Australia   
Joined: 13/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 227
Location: Perth
That was an amasing result for the seller. There were 2 bidders that took it to $1000 and then a new bidder took over and knocked the other bidder over at $1500 and finally got them for $1525. Can someone who has a latest Koll's see if the 353LMS is listed now as my last Koll's is 1996. The seller also sold his 4 PX 35 series wagons and the boxed SK for $2200 which I thought was also a high value.
Offline igf2  
#8 Posted : 21 August 2014 14:38:06(UTC)
igf2


Joined: 29/04/2010(UTC)
Posts: 268
Location: France
Hi
I confirm that you may find 353 LMS cars.
Offline cookee_nz  
#9 Posted : 22 August 2014 21:37:48(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,948
Location: Paremata, Wellington
ebay listing and images disappear after a few weeks which will make this interesting thread rather 'empty' so I've added some of the auction images below to preserve the context of this thread for future reference.

If anyone is posting links to sites or auctions containing images it would help a great deal to consider that the link may not be long-lasting and if possible, please save the image/s to your PC and add them to the topic.

ThumpUp

Cookee
cookee_nz attached the following image(s):
353LMS-1.JPG
353LMS-2.JPG
353LMS-3.JPG
353LMS-4.JPG
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline igf2  
#10 Posted : 22 August 2014 22:15:07(UTC)
igf2


Joined: 29/04/2010(UTC)
Posts: 268
Location: France
Excellent initiative !
Offline 20-VOLT-AC  
#11 Posted : 31 October 2014 17:37:05(UTC)
20-VOLT-AC

United Kingdom   
Joined: 27/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 250
Location: united kingdom
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
This cries "forgery" loud and clear.
The golden "LMS" print has a different color from the horizontal stripes.
The good condition of the bodies are in such contrast with the desolate state of the chassis...
No way JoséLaugh !


I agree with Jvuye.

It is such a grey area , and dealing with just images to judge with is not easy.

They just don't feel right and genuine.

Neil.
1950's Marklin Fan .
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Offline Tiki734  
#12 Posted : 11 May 2015 07:11:50(UTC)
Tiki734

Australia   
Joined: 13/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 227
Location: Perth
In the last few days the same seller who offered the 2 LMS coaches listed and another small collection of 35 series coaches. This time as spares which was the right description but lo and behold another 353LMS this time with stop light added. How could someone be so luck to get 3 of these rare coaches. I was going to go up to $50 and $30 postage and they sold for $217. So I did not get a look in. I think this new one looks very suspicious as the colour of the paint is not even close plus the hand stamp looks like it was done by a child. Surely Marklin would not let something of this quality leave the factory especially export.
Roger
Tiki734 attached the following image(s):
LMS_1.jpg
LMS_2.jpg
LMS_3.jpg
LMS_4.jpg
LMS_5.jpg
LMS_6.jpg
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Offline Tiki734  
#13 Posted : 20 January 2016 06:54:12(UTC)
Tiki734

Australia   
Joined: 13/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 227
Location: Perth
Hi
There are some more LMS wagons that have come up. This time they are the 342 and 343 series. They have been clearly over painted which I believe that what happened and then hand stamped. Can anyone hazard a guess if they are real or fake. I'm going towards them being real.LMS_8.jpg
RogerLMS_7.jpg

LMS_7r.jpgLMS_8r.jpg

Edited by moderator 21 January 2016 07:12:26(UTC)  | Reason: Added resized images - mod

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Offline Tiki734  
#14 Posted : 21 January 2016 05:44:17(UTC)
Tiki734

Australia   
Joined: 13/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 227
Location: Perth
They went on sale yesterday and I was ready to bid but did not get a chance as they went well past my limit which was based on the risk of them being fake. There was 2 off 342E, 2 off 343E, 1 off 349 plus about 15 other bit of rolling stock which were mostly spare parts due to the coupling being cut off. There was few things not quite right with the LMS wagons as one had type 2.2 couplings at one end and 2 at the other end. The three others had either type 1 or 2 couplings which is too early for this model. As per Koll's they should have 2.2. Plus the paint colours did not match up. The 349 was in nice condition but was missing one coupling. The lot went for 1000 pounds plus add another 250 plus for costs and postage. I placed very little value in the rest of the lot so they ended up about US$350 for each of the rarer wagons. Each to their own but they created a lot of interest and there seemed like there were quite a few internet bidders. I love the way the auction house was unable to place an estimate and missed the LMS wagons. Sometime I wish Marklin had not bitten me as all the Hornby etc was going for under 40 pounds and not much interest.
Roger
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Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#15 Posted : 23 January 2016 20:39:57(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,605
HI Roger,

These look real to me, I'm almost 100% sure. At least the ones in the top row, the others have a glare so it's hard to see the stamps. The LMS coaches did come with black claw couplers or silver claw couplers.

Best wishes,

Paul
Offline Tiki734  
#16 Posted : 26 January 2016 11:12:52(UTC)
Tiki734

Australia   
Joined: 13/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 227
Location: Perth
Hi
The latest 342LMS sold on German eBay for 136 Euros. It's not in quite as good condition as the ones sold in the UK but went for a lot less.
RogerLMS_4.jpgLMS_3.jpgLMS_1.jpgLMS_2.jpgLMS_5.jpg
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