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Offline sjlauritsen  
#1 Posted : 08 June 2014 15:20:19(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Hello all,

I have several of the Märklin Electric Turnout Mechanisms #74491. Currently 75% of them have failed in operation because of the internals breaking (or whatever happens in there). The dealer is always friendly and always replace them with new ones, but I am getting a bit tired of it because it happens a lot. I have learned that it is by far an unknown problem with these products.

Currently I have stopped getting new ones, I simply "bridge" them instead. It works fine but of course it is not an acceptable solution.

I have heard a rumour that Märklin is working on a replacement product for the #74491. Can anybody confirm if this i true? That would be really great if they could get it right (this time, because the same thing happened with the #74490 as well) :-) As far as I can tell the MyWorld #74492 is the same design, so I do not consider that one a replacement.
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
Offline RayF  
#2 Posted : 09 June 2014 22:07:07(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi Søren,

I've heard that rumour too. I hope it's true. So far the two 74491 I have are a lot more reliable than most of my 74490s, but it could just be coincidence.

Some of my 74490s are more than 10 years old and still work perfectly, but two or three of them always seen to go wrong in one direction. I get them going again by dribbling a little WD40 in from the top, and they then work again for a few weeks until they dry up again.

If they do have a new design I am willing to rip up all my tracks and change them just to get rid of the problem.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline pn  
#3 Posted : 09 June 2014 22:23:58(UTC)
pn

Portugal   
Joined: 13/04/2011(UTC)
Posts: 143
Location: Portugal
Hi,

Viessmann also announced turnout motors for Märklin/Trix C track as part of their 2014 new items.

The item number is 4558.

It will bring a decoder already attached to it.

Perhaps they will become a reliable alternative to the Märklin ones. Only time will tell...

Pedro
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Offline Hackcell  
#4 Posted : 10 June 2014 02:47:30(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
What I would really love to see it is a new curved turnout. Hopefully R3 or R4 compatible.
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 10 June 2014 07:47:16(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Hackcell Go to Quoted Post
What I would really love to see it is a new curved turnout. Hopefully R3 or R4 compatible.
Off topic here and not a rumour (Märklin confirmed them already).

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Hackcell  
#6 Posted : 10 June 2014 08:03:23(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hackcell Go to Quoted Post
What I would really love to see it is a new curved turnout. Hopefully R3 or R4 compatible.
Off topic here and not a rumour (Märklin confirmed them already).



Sorry for the off topic post. And if it's not a rumour, awesome!!!
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Hackcell
Offline sjlauritsen  
#7 Posted : 10 June 2014 18:56:59(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: pn Go to Quoted Post
It will bring a decoder already attached to it.
Perhaps they will become a reliable alternative to the Märklin ones. Only time will tell...

My only problem with the decoder already in the package is that if something breaks it's an all or nothing solution. I prefer to have separate decoders for the job. The Viessmann product sure looks promising though.

Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
Offline RayF  
#8 Posted : 11 June 2014 00:33:19(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: pn Go to Quoted Post
It will bring a decoder already attached to it.
Perhaps they will become a reliable alternative to the Märklin ones. Only time will tell...

My only problem with the decoder already in the package is that if something breaks it's an all or nothing solution. I prefer to have separate decoders for the job. The Viessmann product sure looks promising though.



I agree. Also, I control my turnouts with analogue control boxes, so I would be paying for a decoder I don't need.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline river6109  
#9 Posted : 11 June 2014 03:06:06(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
the problem I've found with these solenoid motors was the micro switch, when soldering them onto the circuit board and who ever does the job he or she uses a too high temperature and the tension is lost hence the turnout or the switching track (same micro switch) doesn't change over), I've bought these micro switches and ruined 2 myself until I found out why.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline hxmiesa  
#10 Posted : 12 June 2014 17:28:29(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hackcell Go to Quoted Post
What I would really love to see it is a new curved turnout. Hopefully R3 or R4 compatible.
Off topic here and not a rumour (Märklin confirmed them already).

Interresting!!! I am very sorry for the continuing off-topic, but; Where can I find more information on this???
(I´ve already looked through the forums "News From Märklin", but didnt find anything. TIA)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline JKJ  
#11 Posted : 16 June 2014 14:49:08(UTC)
JKJ

Norway   
Joined: 12/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 126
Location: Bergen, Norway
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hackcell Go to Quoted Post
What I would really love to see it is a new curved turnout. Hopefully R3 or R4 compatible.
Off topic here and not a rumour (Märklin confirmed them already).

Interresting!!! I am very sorry for the continuing off-topic, but; Where can I find more information on this???
(I´ve already looked through the forums "News From Märklin", but didnt find anything. TIA)


I believe this comes from the following statements by product manager Grässle: (only in German)

Dem C-Gleis dürfte dagegen ein langes Leben beschieden sein. Noch sind "ein paar Dinge offen", sagt Karl-Heinz Gräßle,
Märklin-Produktmanager H0. "Zu nennen wären die schlanke Doppelkreuzungsweiche oder schlanke Bogenweichen für größere Radien."
Er bittet aber um Geduld, weil ein Projekt wie die schlanke DKW "sechsstellige Investitionen" erfordere.
"Ich bin aber zuversichtlich, dass das mittelfristig realisiert werden kann", sagt er. Weniger Hoffnung macht Gräßle auf ein C-Flexgleis.
"Es gibt Denkansätze, aber das ist nicht serienreif."
Aber für die weitere Zukunft ist ein größeres Projekt in der Pipeline: "Eine Drehscheibe für das C-Gleis-System." Mit Punktkontakten, versteht sich.

Brg
John Kristian


Offline Hackcell  
#12 Posted : 16 June 2014 15:01:58(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by: JKJ Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hackcell Go to Quoted Post
What I would really love to see it is a new curved turnout. Hopefully R3 or R4 compatible.
Off topic here and not a rumour (Märklin confirmed them already).

Interresting!!! I am very sorry for the continuing off-topic, but; Where can I find more information on this???
(I´ve already looked through the forums "News From Märklin", but didnt find anything. TIA)


I believe this comes from the following statements by product manager Grässle: (only in German)

Dem C-Gleis dürfte dagegen ein langes Leben beschieden sein. Noch sind "ein paar Dinge offen", sagt Karl-Heinz Gräßle,
Märklin-Produktmanager H0. "Zu nennen wären die schlanke Doppelkreuzungsweiche oder schlanke Bogenweichen für größere Radien."
Er bittet aber um Geduld, weil ein Projekt wie die schlanke DKW "sechsstellige Investitionen" erfordere.
"Ich bin aber zuversichtlich, dass das mittelfristig realisiert werden kann", sagt er. Weniger Hoffnung macht Gräßle auf ein C-Flexgleis.
"Es gibt Denkansätze, aber das ist nicht serienreif."
Aber für die weitere Zukunft ist ein größeres Projekt in der Pipeline: "Eine Drehscheibe für das C-Gleis-System." Mit Punktkontakten, versteht sich.

Brg
John Kristian




It would be great if this happened within the next 6 months ^.^
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 16 June 2014 16:09:50(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Herr Wolfrad Bächle spake about the new C track pieces on Märklin TV.
IIRC the larger curved turnouts were planned for 2015 and the slim double crossing for the year after.

So not much will happen in the next six months, I'm afraid. Maybe the curved turnouts will be announced with the 2015 Toy Fair new items.

A Märklin turntable could be more profitable than a Fleischmann turntable in a Märklin box. But I haven't heard an ETA for that.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline MalinAC  
#14 Posted : 16 June 2014 17:56:24(UTC)
MalinAC

Ireland   
Joined: 29/05/2014(UTC)
Posts: 839
Location: DONEGAL, CARNDONAGH
Heres my two bits worth. So far I am happy with the 74491 turnout motors I have . I did have a problem with one sticking but that was down to my being a bit too enthusiastic with the glue and ground cover. I tried to unglue it and it worked for a while but then stopped again so I just replaced it. Eddie
Offline Drongo  
#15 Posted : 14 July 2014 02:06:10(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,221
Location: Sydney, NSW
Here's my 2 cents.

I have over 100 turnouts on my layout and all are fitted with decoders and motors. They all take it in turn to fail Cursing Cursing Cursing I just simply cannot rely on them to operate correctly. I'm using Railroad & Co's TrainContoller and when a turnout fails, the program loses the location of the train and anything can happen, which usually results in a crash. I really need a product that is reliable, so that the program can run successfully. If anyone knows of such a product I would be most appreciative.

Regards
Greg
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
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Offline Janne75  
#16 Posted : 14 July 2014 02:39:31(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Hi,

I have all my 74490 and 74491 turnout motors micro switches shorted by soldering them. Until yesterday they have worked since this modification. Yesterday one of these modified ones failed Cursing . Fortunately it is not yet ballasted so it is easy to fix or replace by another shorted one. This is frustrating indeed ThumbDown . They should really make a new one (74492?) with much better and more reliable operation.

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline H0  
#17 Posted : 14 July 2014 08:52:14(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
The 74492 (a 2011 new item) is the same as the 74491.

On Stummi's Forum is a thread about new K track turnout motors. Some say it will come soon, some say it came 2 years ago (75491).

74493 would be a free number for a reliable turnout mechanism ...
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Danlake  
#18 Posted : 14 July 2014 11:17:17(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
What I don’t understand is that no one have cracked the nut and come up with a fool proof solutionConfused

You energize a coil and it becomes magnetic and the steel bar should plunge towards it? Not really rocket science and working well (with regular maintenance) on the M track solenoidsThumpUp

So I am still waiting for some smart engineers on this or other forum to tell me what I need to do for a reliable “fool proof solution” (shortening, DC or AC supply, use of capacitors etc.)Confused

Brgds - Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline Janne75  
#19 Posted : 14 July 2014 11:38:22(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Shortening the micro switches is the way to go. I really don't know why one of my modified ones failed. Otherwise they have been very reliable after this modification. I didn't know that there is already Märklin product number 74492 reserved. Thanks to Tom for let me know of this.

Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline cookee_nz  
#20 Posted : 14 July 2014 11:44:56(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,949
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Hi Søren,
(snip)
Some of my 74490s are more than 10 years old and still work perfectly, but two or three of them always seen to go wrong in one direction. I get them going again by dribbling a little WD40 in from the top, and they then work again for a few weeks until they dry up again.


Hi Ray,

I'm intrigued by your comment that you get some relief by using some WD-40. We've had many discussions over the years about the perils of WD-40, drying up etc and generally not recommended for use as a long-term solution in our hobby.

You may be aware of the problems I was having with K-track contact switches sticking on my layout, in which I covered my success using a Teflon spray lubricant.

In that article I wondered also about the Faller Teflon Lubricant, (I could not get that at the time) and I wonder if this might assist with these turnout mechanisms?

Teflon of course is a 'dry' lubricant and I have to say, it's now been nearly three years since I applied Teflon to my circuit tracks and they are ALL still working reliably.

If the problem with these mechanisms is due to a bind or excess friction, Teflon might just do the trick. Of course if it's something else then it probably won't help, but in this instance I'd have to suggest it's maybe worth a try?

Just a thought

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline Janne75  
#21 Posted : 14 July 2014 16:27:11(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
I just replaced that failed turnout motor with another shorted one. I also shorted three unused turnout motors. One of these are 74490 without those small components between microswitch terminals. Two other are 74491 with these components, but I removed them when shorting the terminals. I figured out one other improvement today to these. I put a small piece of electric insulating tape on the microswitch soldering to avoid any short circuits between this and the metal cover. The terminals are very close to metal cover when they have been soldered. I have also 5 turnout motors having some problems and one of them has very stuck plunger. Maybe Teflon could help to this one, but normally they should move freely.

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline RayF  
#22 Posted : 14 July 2014 18:09:37(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Hi Søren,
(snip)
Some of my 74490s are more than 10 years old and still work perfectly, but two or three of them always seen to go wrong in one direction. I get them going again by dribbling a little WD40 in from the top, and they then work again for a few weeks until they dry up again.


Hi Ray,

I'm intrigued by your comment that you get some relief by using some WD-40. We've had many discussions over the years about the perils of WD-40, drying up etc and generally not recommended for use as a long-term solution in our hobby.

You may be aware of the problems I was having with K-track contact switches sticking on my layout, in which I covered my success using a Teflon spray lubricant.

In that article I wondered also about the Faller Teflon Lubricant, (I could not get that at the time) and I wonder if this might assist with these turnout mechanisms?

Teflon of course is a 'dry' lubricant and I have to say, it's now been nearly three years since I applied Teflon to my circuit tracks and they are ALL still working reliably.

If the problem with these mechanisms is due to a bind or excess friction, Teflon might just do the trick. Of course if it's something else then it probably won't help, but in this instance I'd have to suggest it's maybe worth a try?

Just a thought

Steve


Hi Steve,

WD40 seems to work and has not caused any damage so far. WD 40 works very well as a water repellent and electrical contact cleaner, and it also has short term lubrication effects.

In the case of my solenoid motors I believe the WD40 is penetrating to the microswitch contacts and cleaning them enough to get them to work. None of my solenoids are giving me friction problems, except for my double slip, and so it's not the lubrication effect of the WD 40 that I'm using. I might try Teflon spray on my double slip.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline cookee_nz  
#23 Posted : 14 July 2014 21:33:00(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,949
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Hi Søren,
(snip)
Some of my 74490s are more than 10 years old and still work perfectly, but two or three of them always seen to go wrong in one direction. I get them going again by dribbling a little WD40 in from the top, and they then work again for a few weeks until they dry up again.


Hi Ray,

I'm intrigued by your comment that you get some relief by using some WD-40. We've had many discussions over the years about the perils of WD-40, drying up etc and generally not recommended for use as a long-term solution in our hobby.

You may be aware of the problems I was having with K-track contact switches sticking on my layout, in which I covered my success using a Teflon spray lubricant.

In that article I wondered also about the Faller Teflon Lubricant, (I could not get that at the time) and I wonder if this might assist with these turnout mechanisms?

Teflon of course is a 'dry' lubricant and I have to say, it's now been nearly three years since I applied Teflon to my circuit tracks and they are ALL still working reliably.

If the problem with these mechanisms is due to a bind or excess friction, Teflon might just do the trick. Of course if it's something else then it probably won't help, but in this instance I'd have to suggest it's maybe worth a try?

Just a thought

Steve


Hi Steve,

WD40 seems to work and has not caused any damage so far. WD 40 works very well as a water repellent and electrical contact cleaner, and it also has short term lubrication effects.

In the case of my solenoid motors I believe the WD40 is penetrating to the microswitch contacts and cleaning them enough to get them to work. None of my solenoids are giving me friction problems, except for my double slip, and so it's not the lubrication effect of the WD 40 that I'm using. I might try Teflon spray on my double slip.


Hi Ray, ok understood. I'd personally be a little concerned about any possible build-up of residue from WD-40, I have a CRC product here called "Switch Cleaner Lubricant", in a blue Aerosol can, had it for years. It is designed specifically to clean switches, contacts etc while leaving a very fine conductive film behind to aid the contacts.

It might be worth looking for that at an electronics supply store just to give yourself another option?

But at the end of the day, we are all skirting around the actual problem and dealing with the symptom rather than the cause. You would hope that after all these years and technical expertise, Marklin would get items like this right Confused

Steve

Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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