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Offline Janne75  
#1 Posted : 05 July 2014 22:25:24(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Hi all,

I would like to ask what is the absolute limit for incline in % for most Märklin locomotives? I have now a steep ramp with a combination of R2 and R3 curves and found out that many (but not all) of my locomotives are capable to climb this ramp succesfully and pull wagons there too. The track section ends must be in very same % as otherwise many larger steam locomotives are only slipping their wheels = not capable to climb this ramp/hill up. I have to measure and calculate the incline % tomorrow.

PS. This was the 10000th posting under General MRR RollEyes .

Cheers,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline Lollo  
#2 Posted : 06 July 2014 00:49:59(UTC)
Lollo

New Zealand   
Joined: 22/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 365
Hi Janne,

I have a spiral of R1 curves in a mountain section that has a incline of about 4.5% All my loco's can climb this with out wheel spin.
I have a BR50, BR41 & 85's that do this with ease. Even my BR 86 that only has one axle powered climbs this easily.
All my V160 & V200 loco's have no trouble either. All are able to pull a good rake of wagons up this incline.
Any wheel slip has been atributed to worn/loose tyres.
I think I am close to the limit, but it is really what you can get away with, and some loco's just have better traction than others.
May be 5% incline could be the max.

Cheers,
Brian.
Brian
Yaasan's Desktop Station/Railuino & Marklin MS2, DB Era III/IV Diesel & Steam, ESU Loksound/Lokpilot & Lokprogrammer, Marklin mSD, Tam Valley Depot Octopus III Servo Controller.
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#3 Posted : 06 July 2014 00:53:29(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
Yes, I would agree, 5% is your maximum.
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Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 06 July 2014 08:40:47(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,266
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
I would like to ask what is the absolute limit for incline in % for most Märklin locomotives?
I think the answer depends a lot on how we define "most Märklin locomotives".
Some coaches are more demanding than other coaches (e.g. tin-plate vs. plastic) and it depends on the configuration (I remember a club meeting when someone brought Märklin IC coaches - each with light, each with centre rail slider, resulting in a very demanding train).

In real life, the maximum a loco can haul depends on the incline. Same for model trains.
You cannot have prototypical trains with 12+ four-axle coaches if you have an incline of 7 % (even though 2 or 3 coaches will work with many locos).

A new Märklin DHG 500 with only one powered axle may give little fun on a layout with 7 % inclines, an older DHG 500 with three powered axles and two traction tires should be able to handle one or two freight cars.

Knowing loco weight and tractive effort, it is possible to calculate how many axles it can haul at which incline.

I like long trains. I'm afraid 5 % will be way too steep for the trains I would like to run.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Janne75  
#5 Posted : 06 July 2014 10:05:34(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Hi,

Thank you for all good answers ThumpUp . I agree 5 % may be the realistic limit with shorter trains. In my example those little wider radius R2 and R3 curves help locomotives job. For me it is important that the most of my locomotives can climb this ramp I have. For example my 37450 BR 45 has some troubles if the track ends are not absolutely in the same level.

If I run very long or otherwise demanding trains I will then just run them either only on upper or lower level. It is even possible to run them (once) from upper level to lower level... Another option is to use a helping pusher locomotive to get the train uphill like in real life. Mallet Gt 2 x 4/4 would be good choice for this. But in practise I think I will just run trains which are able to go uphill with their own locomotive.

Regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline Dreadnought  
#6 Posted : 06 July 2014 15:18:31(UTC)
Dreadnought

Canada   
Joined: 24/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 418
Location: Niagara, Ontario
"The grade is 5%"

This quote is from the Marklin catalogue from 1987/88. At page 156 and 157 there are diagrams for M track for steam and diesel locomotives, M track for electric locomotives with catenary, K track for steam and diesel, and K track for electric locomotives with catenary.

For M track they suggest a minimum clearance of 104.5 mm. To allow for the masts I went to 115 mm clearance. To reach the 104.5 clearance they suggest using 15 of the 18 cm long track sections. Please do not ask me to do the maths to see if this amounts to a 5% grade. (For good reason I am not an accountant).

The Italian Marklin Club on their M track display at the treff have a brilliant solution to lowering the bridge clearance. They mount the first mast on about 1 cm of wood. The pantograph is lower and picks up the catenary. The next mast is attached to the track, normal fashion. There is no snagging by the pantograph.

Some additional factors. The catalogue suggests you start with 2.5 mm for the first section of track, 5.5 mm for the second, 11.5 for the third, and 20.5 mm for the fourth. The grade must be decreased at the beginning and end of the climb. The first pillar should be on a strait section of track. Starting a climb on a curve apparently is too much of a challenge. (No, I did not check the maths, see above for reason)

I found most locomotives have no trouble. The old analogues slow down going up, and race going down. New digital locomotives have a constant speed.

I usually pull five to six passenger coaches, one old tin plate consist has four pick up shoes for lighting. That does not present a problem.

The problem locomotives are the Kittle, and the new 24 class. They tend to slip. The 24 needs a good run, and sometimes a helping hand with four coaches.

Hope this helps.
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Offline Yumgui  
#7 Posted : 06 July 2014 17:41:37(UTC)
Yumgui

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,660
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: Dreadnought Go to Quoted Post
"The grade is 5%"

This quote is from the Marklin catalogue from 1987/88. At page 156 and 157 there are diagrams for M track for steam and diesel locomotives, M track for electric locomotives with catenary, K track for steam and diesel, and K track for electric locomotives with catenary ...


Yep, diagrams here : https://www.marklin-user...-Diesels.aspx#post376952

Y Wink
If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out !
Working on: https://studiogang.com/projects/all
My heavy train station renovation: https://youtu.be/QQlyNiq416A
Inspired by: http://www.nakedmarklin.com/... Am not alone in this universe, phew.
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