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Poll Question : Preferred protocol for 3R H0 (see first post)?
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Offline H0  
#1 Posted : 22 June 2014 14:11:47(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Which digital protocol would you use for three-rail H0 operation if you'd make a new start?

Vote for the protocol you prefer - even if your current digital controller does not support it, even if your current locos do not support it.

A dream comes true: New layout, new controller, new trains - you have to choose one protocol. All locos you want are available with any protocol you want.

Edit: "mfx" is meant to include "M4". ESU sell their mfx-enabled decoders using the name "M4" for the protocol. ESU do not support mfx+ a.k.a. "Spielewelt" (and probably never will).

Which protocol would this be, based on your current experience?

Edited by user 23 June 2014 08:34:41(UTC)  | Reason: Note about M4.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Danlake  
#2 Posted : 22 June 2014 15:44:25(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
I voted for mfx.

So far been happy with mfx and gives enough flexibility to me and the size of layout I'm using or would build if I started all over.

I would still like the technology to evolve to include more realistic simulation of how the engine behaves, e.g. slipping wheels, prolonged brake distance due to a heavy train consist etc.

Brgds - Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
Offline RayF  
#3 Posted : 22 June 2014 15:55:53(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
As I am primarily a collector of Marklin I have voted for mfx, as this is the protocol which works best with Marklin locos as they come from the factory. The convenience of having them self register on my MS2 makes it much easier than non-self registering protocols, and it would be even better on a CS2 of course.

My recent purchases of analogue Marklin locos have mostly been fitted with 60942 mfx decoders to make the best use of my controller.

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 22 June 2014 23:32:17(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
As I am primarily a collector of Marklin I have voted for mfx, as this is the protocol which works best with Marklin locos as they come from the factory. The convenience of having them self register on my MS2 makes it much easier than non-self registering protocols, and it would be even better on a CS2 of course.


The poll is about this: "Vote for the protocol you prefer - even if your current digital controller does not support it, even if your current locos do not support it."

Automatic registration comes with mfx, but also comes with RailCom+. Maybe the MS3 will support RailCom+, maybe we'll have to wait for MS4 or MS5 or whatever.


This poll was inspired by a poll on Stummi's Forum. (To tell the truth the poll options were guttenberged from Stummi's Forum.)

I had expected to see 90+ % for mfx, but on Stummi's Forum the result is a surprise for me. The poll here is too young to make any judgements.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline RayF  
#5 Posted : 22 June 2014 23:50:51(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
As I am primarily a collector of Marklin I have voted for mfx, as this is the protocol which works best with Marklin locos as they come from the factory. The convenience of having them self register on my MS2 makes it much easier than non-self registering protocols, and it would be even better on a CS2 of course.


The poll is about this: "Vote for the protocol you prefer - even if your current digital controller does not support it, even if your current locos do not support it."

....



That's what I did.

I have tried DCC and found no obvious major advantage for me over MM, so short of swapping a hundred decoders on my Marklin locomotives I have a preference for MM/mfx over DCC/Railcom.

The fact that my locos do not support DCC it is something I can't ignore, but even if I did I still wouldn't prefer a protocol which is alien to me. Even if you try to make me take a route to vote for DCC I reserve the right to vote for Marklin's native system.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 23 June 2014 00:04:31(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
The fact that my locos do not support DCC it is something I can't ignore, but even if I did I still wouldn't prefer a protocol which is alien to me. Even if you try to make me take a route to vote for DCC I reserve the right to vote for Marklin's native system.
That's OK.

I just wanted to make clear (especially for those who didn't vote yet) that anybody can vote for any protocol.
You could have voted for mfx+ even though your MS2 does not support it.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Oliver nagel  
#7 Posted : 23 June 2014 01:16:04(UTC)
Oliver nagel

United States   
Joined: 30/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 121
Location: Allegany
I like DCC, because I find DCC easy to program and you don't have to buy the expensive M stuff. You can use ESU, sprogII, Digitrax Etc.

BigGrin
Offline kimballthurlow  
#8 Posted : 23 June 2014 01:45:33(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Is this a poll for one answer only?

I would vote for MFX because it is the reason I got involved with Marklin in the first place.
I had prior to 2005, purchased quite a few DCC two rail locos, and there were endless issues with not working as they should, sounds but no motion etc etc.
These were manufacturer problems I believe, and not related to the protocol itself, which seems to be well designed.

Marklin as a manufacturer, never gave me this grief.

I have since used Marklin and other decoders in 2 rail locos for DCC, and find they are now far more reliable.

Overall I do not prefer one protocol over another for running purposes, but I believe Marklin protocol to be superior, simply for the self-registration function at no extra cost.
I believe the Railcom feature costs extra in DCC.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline Hackcell  
#9 Posted : 23 June 2014 06:58:46(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
I still do have to test DCC, this will happen once my couple of MTHs arrive.

In the meantime, I support mfx.
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
Offline river6109  
#10 Posted : 23 June 2014 07:23:39(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,634
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Kimball,
So far ESU decoders are concernd Railcom does not cost extra, it is a permanent feature regarding the Version 4 Lokpilot and Sound decoder.
it has the versatility to program any loco with this decoder which includes, picture of the loco function icons etc etc. another feature is the moment you change the CV's it re-registers itself but to make sure all your data is stored as mentioned before and an other element is RailCom feedback.

with out DCC and Mr Lenz we wouldn't have CV's we wouldn't have mfx so going with time like you upgrade your computer other companies have gone further and enhanced the system whil M♪2rklin had decided to make it a closed protocol and stuck with it and therefore produces locos with this closed protocol, there is nothing wrong with it but time will tell they'll change again the system to an upgraded protocol and we will see how compatible it will be with mfx and we most probably find model train enthusiasts, either upgrade to a new system or stay with mfx or the good old 6021 Märklin motorola system.

it all depends what you need for your layout and what is efficient to run your locos, turnouts, routes, braking sections or computer control.

John



https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
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Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 23 June 2014 08:24:43(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Is this a poll for one answer only?
Yes. The protocol you would use after a move to a new location, starting a new layout from scratch without any legacy stuff.

Those who have a Delta Control may vote for MM because it's the only protocol they have experience with. They may choose one of the other options, deciding on hearsay.


Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
I believe the Railcom feature costs extra in DCC.
I haven't heard of any decoders or controllers where RailCom comes with an extra cost.
And - unlike other self-registering protocol - RailCom can be disabled on a per-loco basis, thus allowing mixed operations. This allows you to register you own locos manually while visitors' locos will register automatically.
Companies spent money to implement RailCom, so this may add a few cents to the retail price of decoders and controllers. But AFAIK any company can sign a licence for RailCom without licence fees.

OTOH we have mfx. Companies like Viessmann tried to obtain licences in order to include mfx with their Viessmann Commander, but so far this licence was not granted.

RailCom is meant to be an open standard.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Moritz-BR365  
#12 Posted : 23 June 2014 09:12:14(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 682
Interesting, up to now DCC in marklin-users.net is more popular than in the Stummiforums identical vote: http://www.stummiforum.d...ic.php?f=31&t=110750

Personally, I like mfx because of its automated features like loco name, F-Button activation and so on. But mfx is not well supported by MS2. Only some default values can be changed but no function mapping and other advanced configurations are possible with the MS2 and mfx decoders.

Therefore, I prefer DCC. With DCC I have full control over the decoder with my MS2. If Märklin would enable the MS2 to configure mfx decoders without limits, I would use mfx.
Offline Shamu  
#13 Posted : 23 June 2014 12:24:19(UTC)
Shamu

Australia   
Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,068
Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
I believe the Railcom feature costs extra in DCC.
I haven't heard of any decoders or controllers where RailCom comes with an extra cost.


I think what Kimball is referring to and certainly from my experience is that in Australia just because something may cost the same O/S doesn't mean the local dealers here aren't gouging us to death. You can double and even triple the prices you pay in Europe or the USA compared to what we pay, and if there is the slightest difference in a produce you can be sure we pay for it. Most stock here can be up to 10 years old and if you find a store that has current products you can be sure they will charge top dollar or more to make the still overpriced "old" stock attractive.

Admittedly I'm referring to the "big" hobby stores, in fact most but a small few do the right thing as best they can.

Oh, and I voted for MFX, I chose to run Marklin and I have no issues with their own protocol. Mind you MFX+ is ...... well...... I don't see the point. Confused

Sorry getting a bit weary and babbling again, hope you get my point BigGrin Confused
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under .
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Offline RayF  
#14 Posted : 23 June 2014 12:57:10(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post


....

You could have voted for mfx+ even though your MS2 does not support it.



Thanks Tom! Actually I think mfx+ is a good idea and a natural progression from mfx with sound etc, but to me, personally, it has limited appeal. To me, anything which distracts me from watching the actual trains is something I'm not going to use, and I don't really feel I need it.

To be honest even sound is a bit annoying to me when I'm trying to shunt some wagons and the loco takes forever to respond while it's doing it different chugging, puffing, hissing and other assorted noises. When given the choice, I often choose the non-sound version of a new loco, such as for example the 37165 instead of the 37160.

I guess I'm just old fashioned when it comes to my hobby, except that you can't deny the obvious benefits of digital control for multi train operation, and auto-registration makes it easier to do this.

Anyway, thanks Tom for starting this very interesting topic. It's fascinating to see what different members see of interest in the different systems available.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline river6109  
#15 Posted : 23 June 2014 15:33:48(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,634
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Shamu Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
I believe the Railcom feature costs extra in DCC.
I haven't heard of any decoders or controllers where RailCom comes with an extra cost.


I think what Kimball is referring to and certainly from my experience is that in Australia just because something may cost the same O/S doesn't mean the local dealers here aren't gouging us to death. You can double and even triple the prices you pay in Europe or the USA compared to what we pay, and if there is the slightest difference in a produce you can be sure we pay for it. Most stock here can be up to 10 years old and if you find a store that has current products you can be sure they will charge top dollar or more to make the still overpriced "old" stock attractive.

Admittedly I'm referring to the "big" hobby stores, in fact most but a small few do the right thing as best they can.

Oh, and I voted for MFX, I chose to run Marklin and I have no issues with their own protocol. Mind you MFX+ is ...... well...... I don't see the point. Confused

Sorry getting a bit weary and babbling again, hope you get my point BigGrin Confused


what you're saying is true but if you put it into proper context, the prices are the same as everywhere else, except you are engaging a third person or company, an Australian dealer and he or she has to pay Australian taxes and his usual overheads and he or she would like to make a profit as well, by buying it direct you bypass all these essential costs or essential profit margins a dealer includes to make a living, RailCom is mainly used by ESU in their Version 4 decoders, you are not buying an option by having RailCom or not. to give an example ESU Switch pilot servo 2 comes now with RailCom feedback for your information costs the same as Version 1.

the whole issue about protocols is for everyone to have access to and Mr. Lenz said back in 2013 the industry has to simplify the whole programming progress and make decoders smarter, although Märklin offers a simpler version and everything is programmed for you but not everything is to your taste or other options are not freely available.

regards.,

John



https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline river6109  
#16 Posted : 23 June 2014 15:36:17(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,634
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post


....

You could have voted for mfx+ even though your MS2 does not support it.



Thanks Tom! Actually I think mfx+ is a good idea and a natural progression from mfx with sound etc, but to me, personally, it has limited appeal. To me, anything which distracts me from watching the actual trains is something I'm not going to use, and I don't really feel I need it.

To be honest even sound is a bit annoying to me when I'm trying to shunt some wagons and the loco takes forever to respond while it's doing it different chugging, puffing, hissing and other assorted noises. When given the choice, I often choose the non-sound version of a new loco, such as for example the 37165 instead of the 37160.

I guess I'm just old fashioned when it comes to my hobby, except that you can't deny the obvious benefits of digital control for multi train operation, and auto-registration makes it easier to do this.

Anyway, thanks Tom for starting this very interesting topic. It's fascinating to see what different members see of interest in the different systems available.


Ray, I thought when you engage the shunting mode, the delay is turned off as well

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Offline Webmaster  
#17 Posted : 24 June 2014 21:30:26(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
I prefer the simplicity of mfx & auto registration of loks, the added mfx+ stuff is not very interesting for me...

It's all about how you want to control your locos & layout, and as I see it - mfx + MM accessories is the main option for me right now...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Offline biedmatt  
#18 Posted : 24 June 2014 22:10:17(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Ray, I thought when you engage the shunting mode, the delay is turned off as well



Depends on how the decoder is configured. I have separated shunting mode and acceleration/braking delay between two function buttons. But there is another element. When you have sound on and change the direction of the loko, then you get the sequence of sound the prototype loko goes through for that reverse of direction. Until that sound sequence is complete and the loko has "changed into reverse", the loko will not accelerate in the opposite direction. This is what I believe Ray was referring.

Edit: This can be turned off with ESU V4 sound decoders. It is the tickable window "delay running until sound is ready" or something such in LokProgrammer.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline RayF  
#19 Posted : 24 June 2014 23:05:25(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Ray, I thought when you engage the shunting mode, the delay is turned off as well



Depends on how the decoder is configured. I have separated shunting mode and acceleration/braking delay between two function buttons. But there is another element. When you have sound on and change the direction of the loko, then you get the sequence of sound the prototype loko goes through for that reverse of direction. Until that sound sequence is complete and the loko has "changed into reverse", the loko will not accelerate in the opposite direction. This is what I believe Ray was referring.

Edit: This can be turned off with ESU V4 sound decoders. It is the tickable window "delay running until sound is ready" or something such in LokProgrammer.


Thanks Matt. Yes, this is what I was referring to. I find it a right pain when shunting, so I end up turning the sound off.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline biedmatt  
#20 Posted : 24 June 2014 23:27:29(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Matt. Yes, this is what I was referring to. I find it a right pain when shunting, so I end up turning the sound off.


Agreed. Waiting for the sound each time you change direction in a yard is annoying.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline river6109  
#21 Posted : 25 June 2014 02:09:56(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,634
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Matt. Yes, this is what I was referring to. I find it a right pain when shunting, so I end up turning the sound off.


Agreed. Waiting for the sound each time you change direction in a yard is annoying.


I see, so you can't turn the delay off with mfx locos and as Matt mentioned with ESU decoders you can, yes I see what you mean it would be unrealistic having a loco with sound and its going through its starting stages while the loco is already in motion.

John

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Offline RayF  
#22 Posted : 25 June 2014 09:06:38(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
My apologies to Tom as this has gone rather off-topic.

Just to clarify my earlier statement, when I'm shunting I don't have the patience to wait for the locos to go through all the start-up noises every time I make a shunting move, especially when changing directions. Even when it is possible to remove the delays and make the movements without waiting for the sounds it looks a bit bizarre, as the sounds then have no basis in reality. It all gets very distracting and tedious, and I end up turning off the sound, and usually the acceleration and braking delay too, while I shunt my wagons around the yard.

Back to the topic then, it is interesting to note from the results so far that the DCC camp seem to prefer to stick to the "basic" DCC without the added Railcom extras, while the MM camp seem to prefer the latest version, which is mfx+ (with Spielewelt)

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Goofy  
#23 Posted : 25 June 2014 18:18:49(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
I did voted DCC without railcom.
This is perfect to use it with either 2 or and 3 rail tracks.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline river6109  
#24 Posted : 25 June 2014 18:29:14(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,634
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
DCC with RailComPlus is mainly used for ESU ECoS; your ESU Version 4 decoders which support RailComPlus is useless if you haven't got an ECoS and this is the reason for, secondly it is a Märklin forum and one would expect the poll favour Märklin products.
the other point is starting with a new digital system how many members know how other systems work and what benefits do they have if any. to compare different digital systems you have to have some knowledge what it is all about and thirdly what guarantee do we have the current systems will not change in future.

furthermore if you stuck with a system I can't see any one changing their habits if you are not interested in other systems.
It is also a clear indication the other 4 options Tom added show no interest at all.




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Offline H0  
#25 Posted : 25 June 2014 21:51:27(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Back to the topic then, it is interesting to note from the results so far that the DCC camp seem to prefer to stick to the "basic" DCC without the added Railcom extras, while the MM camp seem to prefer the latest version, which is mfx+ (with Spielewelt)
The MM protocol was AFAIK developed by Motorola - not for Märklin. Märklin just used something that Motorola had developed earlier.

mfx is completely different and has nothing in common with MM. It was developed by ESU for Märklin.

The MM camp currently has 1 vote, the mfx camp has 15 votes, the DCC camp has 19 votes.
I already wrote it: I would have expected that the DCC camp would get less than 10% of the votes.

In the beginning MM could not be used for two-rail operation, so Märklin used DCC for I gauge and two-rail H0 gauge.

It's natural that Märklin users will use the native Märklin protocols: MM by Motorola, mfx by ESU, DCC by Lenz. LOL
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline river6109  
#26 Posted : 26 June 2014 07:25:40(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,634
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Tom with due respect but the whole question about what would you use if..., is hypothetical and as I have been with this forum for a while I have not noticed anybody making an announcement some one has changed from a Märklin system to another system. it also lacks the engagement for anyone to either discuss any issues other than Märklin or take notice what other manufacturer produce, so in a nutshell people who use Märklin products it seem to me have gone into a marriage bond and are happy the way things are and one can also assume the poll shows what system members already have and I think this has reflected in the votes.
Märklin is offering a system which for most members is exceptable, usable, fairly simple to engage in and it doesn't need any extra work or programming to run your loco around a circle. 16 functions seem to be ample and the locos themselves seem to fulfill your heart with lots of pleasure. While the sun is shining why would you go outside on a rainy day and look for a change in the weather.







https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline H0  
#27 Posted : 26 June 2014 08:21:19(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
[...] so in a nutshell people who use Märklin products it seem to me have gone into a marriage bond and are happy the way things are and one can also assume the poll shows what system members already have and I think this has reflected in the votes.
That's why I expected that DCC would get less than 10% of the votes.

Anyway it's nice to see that there is more interest in DCC amongst three-rail users than I had expected. We don't have the final results yet and I expect the DCC percent values to go down a bit, but still it is a surprise.
Interesting to see how many votes there are for mfx without Spielewelt.

Some people say that self-registration is important.
Interesting to see how many votes there are for DCC without RailCom/RailCom+.

Polls with only a few dozen votes are not representative. But I think they are more representative than the impression you get from reading forum posts. There are so many threads about mfx (especially about self-registration and how to kick a loco's arse to get it self-registeredFlapper ) and very few threads about DCC.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#28 Posted : 26 June 2014 12:45:00(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
That's why I expected that DCC would get less than 10% of the votes.


50/50 at the moment - 19 votes for All Marklin protocols, 19 for all DCC protocols.

Most of my H0 locos are Marklin so I prefer mfx where a loco has it, and MM where a loco has that only (or MM and DCC only).

For my 1 Gauge locos, I run them with mfx at home and DCC when on our club layout.
Offline kimballthurlow  
#29 Posted : 26 June 2014 23:20:43(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
[...] so in a nutshell people who use Märklin products it seem to me have gone into a marriage bond and are happy the way things are and one can also assume the poll shows what system members already have and I think this has reflected in the votes.
That's why I expected that DCC would get less than 10% of the votes.

Anyway it's nice to see that there is more interest in DCC amongst three-rail users than I had expected. We don't have the final results yet and I expect the DCC percent values to go down a bit, but still it is a surprise.
Interesting to see how many votes there are for mfx without Spielewelt.

Some people say that self-registration is important.
Interesting to see how many votes there are for DCC without RailCom/RailCom+.

Polls with only a few dozen votes are not representative. But I think they are more representative than the impression you get from reading forum posts. There are so many threads about mfx (especially about self-registration and how to kick a loco's arse to get it self-registeredFlapper ) and very few threads about DCC.


Hi Tom,

I doubt if the poll means too much, as you say.

My experience among model railroaders of all persuasions regards gauge, tractive method etc, indicates that "the means to the end" is of little interest.
From Gauge 1 to Z, the end is a more comprehensive experience with sounds and motor behaviour, and the digital method of achieving this is not important.
And as you also point out, the current experience or commitment of the user with one method or another, will dictate any poll result.

We all use a computer, but very few of us have any interest in how or why it works.

Eventually the market-place will sort out what stays around, and what goes.
Remember VHS and Beta formats in video tape?
In 20 years time, our view of the model train digital landscape will appear inconsequential.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline foumaro  
#30 Posted : 27 June 2014 07:39:14(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,420
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
I am running my locos with the perfect 6021 so Mfx is enough for me.I am waiting for a USA starter set with CS2 to make my next digital step.BigGrin
Offline H0  
#31 Posted : 27 June 2014 08:02:24(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: foumaro Go to Quoted Post
I am running my locos with the perfect 6021 so Mfx is enough for me.
No mfx with CU 6021, only MM. Not all locos with mfx can be used with a CU 6021.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline river6109  
#32 Posted : 28 June 2014 03:54:44(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,634
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
[...] so in a nutshell people who use Märklin products it seem to me have gone into a marriage bond and are happy the way things are and one can also assume the poll shows what system members already have and I think this has reflected in the votes.
That's why I expected that DCC would get less than 10% of the votes.

Anyway it's nice to see that there is more interest in DCC amongst three-rail users than I had expected. We don't have the final results yet and I expect the DCC percent values to go down a bit, but still it is a surprise.
Interesting to see how many votes there are for mfx without Spielewelt.

Some people say that self-registration is important.
Interesting to see how many votes there are for DCC without RailCom/RailCom+.

Polls with only a few dozen votes are not representative. But I think they are more representative than the impression you get from reading forum posts. There are so many threads about mfx (especially about self-registration and how to kick a loco's arse to get it self-registeredFlapper ) and very few threads about DCC.


Hi Tom,

I doubt if the poll means too much, as you say.

My experience among model railroaders of all persuasions regards gauge, tractive method etc, indicates that "the means to the end" is of little interest.
From Gauge 1 to Z, the end is a more comprehensive experience with sounds and motor behaviour, and the digital method of achieving this is not important.
And as you also point out, the current experience or commitment of the user with one method or another, will dictate any poll result.

We all use a computer, but very few of us have any interest in how or why it works.

Eventually the market-place will sort out what stays around, and what goes.
Remember VHS and Beta formats in video tape?

regards
Kimball


Kimball, I like to see that: In 20 years time, our view of the model train digital landscape will appear inconsequential. Smile
I'll be 90 but I'll keep my email address, just in case it doesn't change in time or my digital heart got hacked and is suffering from a severe virus LOL
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
Offline foumaro  
#33 Posted : 28 June 2014 04:28:33(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,420
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: foumaro Go to Quoted Post
I am running my locos with the perfect 6021 so Mfx is enough for me.
No mfx with CU 6021, only MM. Not all locos with mfx can be used with a CU 6021.


I know that my 6021 does not support mfx,but this is not a reason not to buy mfx locos and trains.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by foumaro
Offline Goofy  
#34 Posted : 28 June 2014 07:14:41(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: foumaro Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: foumaro Go to Quoted Post
I am running my locos with the perfect 6021 so Mfx is enough for me.
No mfx with CU 6021, only MM. Not all locos with mfx can be used with a CU 6021.


I know that my 6021 does not support mfx,but this is not a reason not to buy mfx locos and trains.


But you are forcement to buy CS2 by control mfx protocols and swapping functions etc...
I use only MS2 and can use all CV adresses with DCC protocol.
That´s way i did choised DCC.
Mfx is crap!

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline H0  
#35 Posted : 28 June 2014 09:28:32(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: foumaro Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: foumaro Go to Quoted Post
I am running my locos with the perfect 6021 so Mfx is enough for me.
No mfx with CU 6021, only MM. Not all locos with mfx can be used with a CU 6021.
I know that my 6021 does not support mfx,but this is not a reason not to buy mfx locos and trains.
As long as you buy locos that support MM and mfx. Locos with mfx but without MM will not run with a CU 6021. So actually MM is enough for you and there is no reason for you not to buy MM+mfx locos (that allow to use up to 16 functions with a CU 6021), but OTOH you do not have practical experience with mfx when using a CU 6021.

In the old time while I was using my Intellibox and the MM protocol, I was very disappointed by the locos with mfx decoders in general, especially by those with Compact C Sine motors, because the speed curve of the loco was not linear and with mfx decoders there was no way to change it (using an Intellibox or CU 6021).
Roco locos and earlier Märklin locos (with ESU fx decoders) allowed adjusting the speed curve with an Intellibox or CU 6021.

I understand that not everybody wants decoders that can be adjusted.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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thanks 3 users liked this useful post by H0
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