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Offline drstapes  
#1 Posted : 04 March 2014 20:36:00(UTC)
drstapes

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 764
Location: Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk
Hi All,
I recently brought a 3003 engine off Ebay. Said to be in working order, which it certainly wasn't when I received it.... A problem I find is becoming more common, do others have the same problem? However the usual TLC of cleaning, new brushes and replacing missing traction tyres and now all is well. In fact I am quite taken with it, the intricate valve gear is fascinating to watch. I was thinking of looking for an earlier version, the FM 800. However does anyone know if the early versions had traction tyres and did the have the single or double click reverser? why I ask is that traction tyres in particular make tremendous difference to the pulling power.
My 3003 without traction tyres could only pull 3 1950's wagons but is happy puling 7 or 8 with the new tyres fitted. similarly a single click reverser is much less hassle than the double click earlier one.
Regards

Geoff (UK)

marklin HO from the 50's and 60's
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Offline Webmaster  
#2 Posted : 04 March 2014 20:38:50(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
Do you have the manual reverser lever too on it?
Then it's just like my first childhood loco... Love
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Offline Paul59  
#3 Posted : 04 March 2014 20:54:47(UTC)
Paul59

United Kingdom   
Joined: 25/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 180
Location: South East
Originally Posted by: drstapes Go to Quoted Post
Hi All,
I recently brought a 3003 engine off Ebay. Said to be in working order, which it certainly wasn't when I received it.... A problem I find is becoming more common, do others have the same problem?


Hi Geoff, I have had a couple of instances when items were advertised as running when they clearly weren't. All have been got working though with a bit of effort.
The worse was a SET800 which needed stripping down, the armature completely cleaned and the commutator skimmed on a lathe. Then I had to strip and rebuild the double click reverser including rewinding the coil (2,000 turns of wire!!). A rewiring and it finally worked well. All in all a lot of effort. Glad I did it though rather than sending it back to the seller as I sort of 'bonded' with it during the operations. It's since been converted to digital and is a reliable locomotive.

I think that sometimes the sellers remember them working ten or twenty years ago and just assume that they still are.

Glad you got your 3003 working. That one was my first Marklin loco and it is now converted to digital (Lokpilot plus ESU magnet) and runs lovely. It's one of my favourites.

Paul
Marklin HO using M track. Now reverted to analogue as I find it has more character - and I understand it!
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Offline BrandonVA  
#4 Posted : 04 March 2014 21:16:29(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Geoff,

I believe 1956 was the only year for the FM 800. Prior to 1956 BR24 had last appeared at RM800 in 1953. The first year for the four digit numbering (3003) was 1957.

In 1956 FM 800 it is listed as having a remote reversing mechanism (does not say single or double), as well as a manual reverse lever and plastic tyres.

In 1957(-1962) it is listed as having a remote reversing mechanism (does not say single or double), as well as a manual reverse lever and plastic tyres.

In 1963(-1968) it is listed as reverse by remote control (no manual lever mentioned), and having "special adhension tyres" which I would assume are rubber, as prior years back to 1957 always describe them as plastic.

In 1969 the language changes to describe them as rubber tyres.

1998 was the last year it was offered as 3003, in 1999 it came back as 30032 (offered until 2001).

I believe it always had tyres, although I have read the plastic tires were brittle and would disappear. My guess is the rubber work much better (perhaps they can be fitted on plastic tyre versions missing their plastic tyres?).

As far as Ebay, at this point I get a whole mix...I pretty mucy strip down every loco I get, clean it and check it out. Occasionally I cheat and run them without doing this though!

-Brandon
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Offline Renato  
#5 Posted : 05 March 2014 00:14:57(UTC)
Renato

Italy   
Joined: 19/03/2004(UTC)
Posts: 976
Location: Gorizia, Italy
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
Do you have the manual reverser lever too on it?
Then it's just like my first childhood loco... Love

Exactly the same for me, Juhan.

Cheers

Renato
Offline Markus Schild  
#6 Posted : 05 March 2014 09:07:38(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi,

Only the 1956 FM800 has the double-switch. The 3003 was among the first locomotives which were changed to single switching in early 1957.

Regards

Markus
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Offline Janne75  
#7 Posted : 05 March 2014 09:08:40(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Hi,

Plastic traction tyres are very slippery comparing to the rubber ones. If there is plastic traction tyres they can be changed for rubber ones to get much better traction. I have some older locomotives with the original plastic traction tyres and in my opinion they are very tough and will not break easily. They have a good property as they don´t make the tracks as dirty as rubber tyres if locomotive is pulling (too) long consist and will start to slip it´s driving wheels. I actually like to have the clear plastic traction tyres in these some older locomotives as they look more original with them. Am I nostalgic? BigGrin

I am not sure about the double click reversing unit. I assume that the FM 800 had double click reversing unit as it is made from year 1956 to 1958. Some Märklin locomotives made in 1957 had double click reversing units. Rumours say the very first V200 006 (3021) made in 1957 had this kind of reversing unit and other versions did not have it. Edit: I got some days ago 3021.1 and it does not have double reversing unit, but it is different drum style one and the later versions from 1958 => have different types of reversing units. I have the first version of DA 800 from 1954-1955 and it has this double click reverser.

I found this FM 800.1 eBay auction showing the double click reversing unit in the last photo:

FM 800.1 eBay auction

Edit: Markus, thanks for information. So the first version had this double click reversing unit only in year 1956.

Regards,
Janne

Edited by user 23 March 2014 08:08:17(UTC)  | Reason: Corrected the info about 3021.1 reversing unit

Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline RayF  
#8 Posted : 05 March 2014 12:29:49(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I have one of the latest 3003, bought in the 1990s. At that time it was already looking a little bit dated, but it still looks great on my layout with a few thunderboxes in tow.

This might be slightly off topic, but I'm glad they've perpetuated the Br24 in the Marklin range with an all new model, even if it is Hobby standard.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Ian555  
#9 Posted : 05 March 2014 13:01:47(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,235
Location: Scotland
Hi Janne,

I have 2 of the 1954 DA800 with the plastic body, the metal body ws introduced in 1955.

The 1954 DA800 has the double reverse unit.

I have a FM800, will try it to see if it has the double reverse unit fitted.

Ian.

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Offline Janne75  
#10 Posted : 05 March 2014 13:30:15(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: Ian555 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Janne,

I have 2 of the 1954 DA800 with the plastic body, the metal body ws introduced in 1955.

The 1954 DA800 has the double reverse unit.

I have a FM800, will try it to see if it has the double reverse unit fitted.

Ian.



Hi Ian,

Yes that oldest DA 800 from 1954 has the plastic body and double reverse unit. My sons have the next metal body version 1955 =>? and it has probably not anymore it´s original reversing unit as it has the single reversing unit. It is also otherwise modified (repainted) so it can be what ever really.

If your FM 800 is the very first version and from the year 1956 it should have then the double reverse unit. I have only a newer 1950´s 3003 with manual reverse switch, but it has then single reverse unit. Double reverse unit is actually very nice when using the hand lever to change locomotive direction. Lights can be set on with the analog transformer without loco moving in some locos when only one reversing "command" given. The next "command" then changes the loco running direction Cool . By "command" I mean manual reversing lever movement by hand.

Cheers,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline Ian555  
#11 Posted : 05 March 2014 14:58:49(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,235
Location: Scotland
Hi all,

My FM800 does not have a double reverse switch fitted.

Can this still be a 1956 model.

Ian.


FM800.


FM800.

....
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Offline Janne75  
#12 Posted : 05 March 2014 17:08:47(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
According to Koll´s it should have in the tender type 6 wide coupling if it is 1. version from 1956 and still have it´s original tender. I think the first version should have always that double reverse unit. 2. version have in the tender coupling type 7 (1957+1958). I have myself version 3. and the first where there is "3003" and not "FM 800" in loco body. This version was made only in 1959 with tender "FM 809" and is the first one with three lamps (actually light diffuser and only one lamp inside).

Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline Webmaster  
#13 Posted : 05 March 2014 20:02:48(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
That's the one I have... Love
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline drstapes  
#14 Posted : 07 March 2014 23:37:10(UTC)
drstapes

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 764
Location: Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk
Thanks for everyone's interest. My 3003 must be from the seventies, 3 headlights and flat DB sign on the cab side and single click reverser. I like it a lot!
Regards

Geoff (UK)

marklin HO from the 50's and 60's
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Offline Oliver nagel  
#15 Posted : 11 March 2014 17:23:12(UTC)
Oliver nagel

United States   
Joined: 30/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 121
Location: Allegany
I also have a Br 24 from the seventies, I up graded it with a five pole motor and a ESU lokpilot 4 decoder, boy that little lok can pull.
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Offline drstapes  
#16 Posted : 16 March 2014 00:19:38(UTC)
drstapes

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 764
Location: Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk
well. Letting my heart rule my head , have just received a FM800 off eBay. thankfully it works well but is obviously well used. 2 headlights, reflex couplers, plastic adhesion tyres, single click reverser and manual reversing lever. fm800 on cab side and fm809 on tender. I guess from Brandon's detailed reply that makes in 1957-59 vintage?
Regards

Geoff (UK)

marklin HO from the 50's and 60's
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Offline gnorfen  
#17 Posted : 18 March 2014 10:34:00(UTC)
gnorfen

Sweden   
Joined: 15/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 11
The problem with using Koll is to trust him 100%. True the variants exists, but it is by no means certain that it is not more variants.

If you look at the tenders f.e. the 800 marks often remained on locomotives years afterwards, as on some locomotives via the molds.

I suspect that this was partly made gradually as stocks of parts ran out, so it is reasonable to assume a more fluid transition, probably also on other things f.e. reverse units.

If they are later replaced/repaired the double-switch unit often becomes the newer single-type.

The change from FM800 to 3003 (on paper) may not be immediately followed by relabeling all the boxes.

If you have looked in the renumbering catalogue with crossreferences you can see numbers like TT800 ->3006, ST800 MT ->4019, DB800 -> 3023 (railcar set) not the later E18.
My experience is also that Koll has added Little variants during the years (My first is from 1981) , have not bought any new for years as it is often better to follow end results on ebay auctions, especially as Koll only specifies mint and my wallet is better suited to used examples of the rarer items. Especially when used examples seems to have a larger discount today.

At least in earlier Kolls this renumbering catalogues numbers was not mentioned, but at least some in Mikado.

However I have never seen a original box with 3006, 4019 or 3023 (for railcar) so I do not know if anyone was made.

This is what I think and there are certainly lots of you who knows more than me.
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Offline Markus Schild  
#18 Posted : 18 March 2014 11:00:42(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Originally Posted by: gnorfen Go to Quoted Post

However I have never seen a original box with 3006, 4019 or 3023 (for railcar) so I do not know if anyone was made.



Hi,

4019 - boxes are known, also 3006 boxes, but I have never seen a 3023 box for the railcar. You always must remember that the 1956 catalogue was valid until autumn 1957, the new numbers from January, 1st 1957.
The 3023 was published for the railcar with trailer (same content than DB 800 K), 3016 is the railcar without trailer.
From January 1st 1957 Märklin delivered all items with the new number. From that period a number of items are known in relabeld boxes with the new number stuck on the old one.

Regards

Markus
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Offline gnorfen  
#19 Posted : 30 March 2014 00:02:33(UTC)
gnorfen

Sweden   
Joined: 15/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 11
Thanks Markus for your answer regarding 3006, 3023 and 4019 boxes.
Most interesting.

Offline mikemasey  
#20 Posted : 03 August 2014 02:56:53(UTC)
mikemasey

Australia   
Joined: 03/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 83
Hi guys,
a short while ago I had bought a box of "bits" and in it was a not very well Class 24 loco without a tender.
I had a quick look and put it to one side to keep for spares for my running 3003.
After reading this article I managed to find it again and to my delight not only did it actually run(slowly) it is an FM 800.
Mine has metal smoke deflectors and a reversing lever, I don't know the difference between the double or single action type!. Only one rubber tyre fitted but I have more somewhere.
The front head lights are two individual lamps and not the single lamp and light defuse used ion the 3003 model.
I have to agree with Geoff(uk) that the valve gear is quite remarkable when you see this engine as part of a starter set or at least as a "second" engine!
As far as I can tell the FM 800 were last seen in the 1956 catalogue, and this makes this my oldest Marklin locomotive.


PS, unfortunately I do not know how to put pictures on to this site , can anyone assist me?

thanks,

Mike.
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#21 Posted : 03 August 2014 03:50:35(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: mikemasey Go to Quoted Post
...unfortunately I do not know how to put pictures on to this site , can anyone assist me?


Use the 'Attach' button you see at the top of your post to attach your .jpg picture files. Keep the file size to under 200kb, and you should be good to go.
Offline Dangermouse  
#22 Posted : 05 August 2014 22:02:37(UTC)
Dangermouse

United Kingdom   
Joined: 01/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 115
Location: Wales
If I get a non-runner it tends to get converted to digital pretty rapidly. With classic locos I can usually do this without it being obvious from the outside, apart from the headlamps being on at full intensity rather than varying with speed. Judging by Youtube videos of unmodified examples the two I've done so far now run better than ever, with their original 3-pole armatures and brushes but an ESU magnet and Lokpilot. I've not seen a standard 3031 which can crawl like mine, for example.

I find an ultrasonic cleaning bath very good for seriously gunked-up mechanisms, just warm water and a squirt of washing up liquid.
You can never have too many Silberlinge
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