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Offline DumbGuy  
#1 Posted : 09 March 2014 04:50:03(UTC)
DumbGuy

United States   
Joined: 25/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 194
Location: Tennessee, USA
Hello the Forum . . . . .

I’m considering joining the NMRA (National Model Railroad Association) in the USA. But in my quick look at their site & materials, their focus appears to be pretty much entirely on 2-Rail DC systems.

Any opinions on the value of joining NMRA, and on whether becoming a member would be useful to me as a Marklin user? I’d especially like to hear from current NMRA members.

Thanks & best regards -- Richard
Long-time analog user, collector & tinkerer.
Discovered digital & began conversion a few years ago.
C-Track, CS2 Carpetbahn built, taken-down, rebuilt, etc.
Username reflects how much I still have to learn.
Offline seatrains  
#2 Posted : 09 March 2014 05:54:30(UTC)
seatrains

United States   
Joined: 22/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 669
Location: Shoreline, WA
Richard, I joined the NMRA 8 years ago because I knew very few model railroaders in my area and hobby shops are an "endangered species" LOL Yes, 99.9% model North American 2 rail DC/DCC in O, HO, HOn3, N and G(large scale). They put up with me and my Marklin addiction. I also love the Milwaukee Road. In my area they have monthly clinics that cover scenery, soldering, decoders, and cad track planning software etc. They also have mini conventions with guest speakers, swap meets and layout tours. For I what I pay in dues, I feel I get back in knowledge and camaraderie...BigGrin Sometime the members even find me some European stuff. See the Roco car, I got recently...
Thom
European Train Enthusiast - Pacific Northwest Chapter
4th Division, Pacific Northwest Region, National Model Railroaders Association
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Offline cookee_nz  
#3 Posted : 09 March 2014 06:24:03(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,953
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: DumbGuy Go to Quoted Post
Hello the Forum . . . . .

I’m considering joining the NMRA (National Model Railroad Association) in the USA. But in my quick look at their site & materials, their focus appears to be pretty much entirely on 2-Rail DC systems.

Any opinions on the value of joining NMRA, and on whether becoming a member would be useful to me as a Marklin user? I’d especially like to hear from current NMRA members.

Thanks & best regards -- Richard


A better question may be to ask yourself whether there is any direct benefit to be gained from joining?

Ie; as opposed to joining a local club (if you have one nearby) which may already be a NMRA member

You would be wise to be cautious because many in the 2-rail world take delight in deriding Marklin whenever they can, not always of course but often enough to become tiresome.

What do you see as advantages of belonging to the NMRA?

Cheers

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline seatrains  
#4 Posted : 09 March 2014 07:01:44(UTC)
seatrains

United States   
Joined: 22/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 669
Location: Shoreline, WA
Quote:
A better question may be to ask yourself whether there is any direct benefit to be gained from joining?

Ie; as opposed to joining a local club (if you have one nearby) which may already be a NMRA member

You would be wise to be cautious because many in the 2-rail world take delight in deriding Marklin whenever they can, not always of course but often enough to become tiresome.

What do you see as advantages of belonging to the NMRA?

Cheers

Steve


Steve in order to attend the local (monthly) chapter meetings, one in the Seattle area needs to join the national organization. There are very few model train clubs in my area that are not aligned with the NMRA in some way. Dues are $44.00 US. Cheap.
We have a few ETE members in our area but so far not enough to have any real presence.
When I first started attending I brought my Marklin 3015 crock and there were lots of compliments. The next month one of the members brought his Trix UP Big Boy for show and tell, so I was "in".ThumpUp Not one member has given me any grief if you know what I mean...RollEyes
Also I have some prototypical "cred" as my relatives have worked for the Union Pacific, Burlington Northern, Northern Pacific and the Railway Express Agency (REA) etc. Also at the clinic that I go to members have gone on rail fan trips to Canada, Cuba, Russia, China and Europe. Two members just got back from Scotland and bought model trains!
The advantages are going to the clinics/seminars that I noted where members who are really good at all things model railroad present. Two months back a member at our clinic installed a decoder in front of the group into a N scale lok and then showed a number of other DCC conversions that he had done. Watching him do it in real time, gave me the confidence to attempt one my self.
We have a mini convention coming in June, which I am hoping to attend if my schedule permits, and I will post photos..

Edited by moderator 09 March 2014 18:38:01(UTC)  | Reason: Fixed quote /Webmaster

Thom
European Train Enthusiast - Pacific Northwest Chapter
4th Division, Pacific Northwest Region, National Model Railroaders Association
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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#5 Posted : 09 March 2014 07:48:04(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,865
Location: CA, USA
I'd say the answer to this question lies in the following:

1: Are you going to (or are you currently) do anything more that collect your trains, and maybe run them in a basic format or carpetbahn? if the answer is yes, the NMRA can be an amazing education. Remember Marklin itself is AC, but almost every aspect of the hobby except your track work/electrical is the same whether your trains are AC or DC, and - please don't shoot me- I've found the DC crowd to be a better learning source for me over the years when it comes to the actual modelling of things; meaning structures, scenery, layout design etc..

2: What does your local NMRA offer. The benefits in #1 above aren't much use if you don't have a local group to learn from and share the camaraderie with.
SBB Era 2-5
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Offline river6109  
#6 Posted : 09 March 2014 09:18:58(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,715
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
My experience with NMRA here in Western Australia isn't crash hot. if you're into 2 rail and British designed locos, rolling stock and scenery and you scratch build everything there is room for you, if you're a 3 rail and a person who buys ready made products off the shelve don't think you get too many compliments.
Having been a member for a very short time we took part in a competition which loco can pull the most weight, most 2 rail locos don't have rubber tyres and we took our locos along and beat them with their pants down., unfortunately they've forgot to write restrictions such as rubber tyres into the competition form.
It wasn't what the organizers hoped for and secondly being beaten by 3 rail loco

different countries most probably offer different choices under the NMRA flag and some organizations may be more interested in your membership dollar to keep the club going.
As I said before I'm not keen on clubs but mainly by the administrations how a club is run and organized.

regards.,

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#7 Posted : 09 March 2014 10:11:51(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,668
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: seatrains Go to Quoted Post
.... For I what I pay in dues, I feel I get back in knowledge and camaraderie...BigGrin Sometime the members even find me some European stuff. ......


Hi Richard,

Thom has summed it up very well.

I am a Queensland member of the NMRA Australasian Division, and have got nothing but positives to say about the group.
Admittedly, I live in a city where the local Group is active, so I can attend regular layout running days etc.
Most model railroaders are very tolerant of all types of modelling, and appreciate your own efforts, no matter how odd, or different.
Having said that, when you join, take as much or as little from it as you need.

I happen to have varied interests in railways, so I get a lot out of the NMRA.

regards
Kimball

Edited by user 10 March 2014 04:45:34(UTC)  | Reason: To tone down a criticism.

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline Webmaster  
#8 Posted : 09 March 2014 18:55:46(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
Mainly 2-rail DC - yes
DCC decoders & controllers - yes

But those would be the only real differences... Well, really only 2-rail vs 3-rail nowadays since the newer Märklin controllers can do basic DCC too...

The rest of the model railroad hobby is very similar when it comes to the other practical and interesting stuff.
Trains are run the same way, landscapes are built the same way, digital decoders are mounted the same way and so on...
The differences between doing things the Märklin way or NMRA way are just a few bits on the technical side, but the principles are the same.

Would be a great thing to meet fellow "minds" on conventions, get togethers and such.

So if you think the price is worth it - go for it!

Remember - It's model railroading the whole thing is all about, not just "my brand is best" as it sometimes can be manifested in forums and such.... Wink


Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Offline DumbGuy  
#9 Posted : 10 March 2014 01:41:48(UTC)
DumbGuy

United States   
Joined: 25/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 194
Location: Tennessee, USA
Originally Posted by: DumbGuy Go to Quoted Post


Any opinions on the value of joining NMRA, and on whether becoming a member would be useful to me as a Marklin user? I’d especially like to hear from current NMRA members.


Thanks to all for your VERY cogent and balanced responses about NMRA. I’ll see especially what the potential is for local clubs in my area – that seems to be your overarching recommendation for value.

As an aside, I had the opportunity to attend their 2013 National Train Show in Atlanta few moths ago -- it was the genesis of my interest. Any thoughts on the contributions of their seminars, events, displays, etc. to the hobby?

Thanks again -- Richard
Long-time analog user, collector & tinkerer.
Discovered digital & began conversion a few years ago.
C-Track, CS2 Carpetbahn built, taken-down, rebuilt, etc.
Username reflects how much I still have to learn.
Offline mrmarklin  
#10 Posted : 11 March 2014 00:03:54(UTC)
mrmarklin

United States   
Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 894
Location: Burney, CA
Originally Posted by: DumbGuy Go to Quoted Post
Hello the Forum . . . . .

I’m considering joining the NMRA (National Model Railroad Association) in the USA. But in my quick look at their site & materials, their focus appears to be pretty much entirely on 2-Rail DC systems.

Any opinions on the value of joining NMRA, and on whether becoming a member would be useful to me as a Marklin user? I’d especially like to hear from current NMRA members.

Thanks & best regards -- Richard


I used to be a member, but in reality there was not much there, there.

Aside from the 3 rail difference, American operating style from a prototype andd layout viewpoint is completely different than European. I'm sure exceptions could be found!

I've found that even DCC is about 10 years behind current Marklin and European standards. There is nothing comparable to the CS2 for Americans for example.

All the measurements standards are different as well. European trains whether DC or AC use differing wheel, flange, weight, and loading gauge standards as well.

Where the NMRA is strong IMHO are weathering, and scenery emphases. The basic ideas are good, but scenery is different than Europe too!

For all the self righteousness of the American set about prototype prototype prototype, they still don't have close coupling for their passenger rolling stock--pretty lame. Mention it when they criticize your ugly couplers.BigGrin

On the other had ETE has a SIG attached to the NMRA, and if there is a dearth of Euro modellers in your neighborhood, you should be able to development cameraderie. They are pretty good people.Cool
From the People's Republik of Kalifornia
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Offline hxmiesa  
#11 Posted : 11 March 2014 10:40:44(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,520
Location: Spain
I wouldnt worry too much. It´s not like you´re going to MARRY the NMRA.
Join them. Pay the annual fee, and if in the end you dont like it, simply un-join them!

As to potential grief about other people belittleing your brand and system; Well, it´s totally THEIR problem, isnt it? -What do YOU care what THEY think? Xenofobia (against different model railroad brands) does not deserve any respect!
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline DumbGuy  
#12 Posted : 12 March 2014 17:22:21(UTC)
DumbGuy

United States   
Joined: 25/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 194
Location: Tennessee, USA
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
I wouldnt worry too much. It´s not like you´re going to MARRY the NMRA.
Join them. Pay the annual fee, and if in the end you dont like it, simply un-join them!

As to potential grief about other people belittleing your brand and system; Well, it´s totally THEIR problem, isnt it? -What do YOU care what THEY think? Xenofobia (against different model railroad brands) does not deserve any respect!


Henrik -- Great comments & I agree entirely. I'll fill out the papers, send them a bit of money, and look for a local club. Since xenophobia always limits personal growth, I'm sure the membership will be a nicely broadening experience.

Regards -- Richard
Long-time analog user, collector & tinkerer.
Discovered digital & began conversion a few years ago.
C-Track, CS2 Carpetbahn built, taken-down, rebuilt, etc.
Username reflects how much I still have to learn.
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Offline seatrains  
#13 Posted : 13 March 2014 04:02:31(UTC)
seatrains

United States   
Joined: 22/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 669
Location: Shoreline, WA
DumbGuy, it looks like you would fall into the "Southeastern Region".
web address here: http://www.ser-nmra.org/
I would email one of the "Officials" to hook up with the closest group to your home. In our division, they let you attend a few clinic meetings before they hit you up for membership. Your experience may vary and I hope it works out for you.

Regarding your question about Conventions. I have only attended one national NMRA Convention in Seattle in 2004. I did not attend the organized convention activities, but went to the trade show.
I met up with a small gaggle of local ETE members and the national ETE had a table and a small module display. The ETE has had display layouts at quite a few national NMRA conventions. Yes the ETE and the NMRA are now affiliated, but they are two separate groups. This relationship gives the ETE exposure at NMRA events. We have even had Portland ETE modules at Seattle NMRA events...BigGrin
Thom
European Train Enthusiast - Pacific Northwest Chapter
4th Division, Pacific Northwest Region, National Model Railroaders Association
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Offline river6109  
#14 Posted : 13 March 2014 04:56:11(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,715
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Just to say without the NMRA, we wouldn't be enjoying our decoders, sound decoders as much if the NMRA didn't call for a unified system and in the early days Lenz decoders introduced open protocols and all loco decoders producers today except Märklin have an open protocol, this alone I would think would be a no no for NMRA, organizers or officials who have helped the decoder industry where it is today.
but joining a group like this is not just about decoders and I think other NMRA clubs or subsidiaries could take notice of it and may change or improve their acceptance either with other groups as Thom has mentioned (ETE).

Realizing the hobby itself is not an expanding but rather a shrinking phenomena and it is the public who still support such organizations and to be quite honest they (the public) don't care if your loco has sound is from ERA 1 or 2, or represents a certain country, so by adjusting their terms and conditions by allowing other interest groups or individuals to be part of a greater organization and therefore the survival of model trains will have a better future and I think a better understanding for young people to take note what is available and which way if any, will they take up the hobby hopefully in future.
I also think forum members who live in America or the United States of America could in due course play an important role a.) by joining groups like this, b.) be active in their presentation, c.) and may play an administrative role to include or adapt a more wider field of ready made model trains such as Märklin's and other brands.

Unless you work harder and get deeper into a survival mode your participation will always be on the fringes of such organizations and maybe form a Märklin sub group like the one in Scotland which Ian is the host.
the disadvantage most likely be the distance from one city or one state to another but everything starts small, it is mainly the dedication and vision, for people like this to succeed.
Me may also have to change our way of expressing ourselves when joining big organizations, such as playing with trains, under NMRA rules it is: operating trains.

Richard, good luck with it all and let us know how you get on.

regards.,

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline DumbGuy  
#15 Posted : 13 March 2014 14:11:07(UTC)
DumbGuy

United States   
Joined: 25/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 194
Location: Tennessee, USA
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post

Realizing the hobby itself is not an expanding but rather a shrinking phenomena and it is the public who still support such organizations and to be quite honest they (the public) don't care if your loco has sound is from ERA 1 or 2, or represents a certain country, so by adjusting their terms and conditions by allowing other interest groups or individuals to be part of a greater organization and therefore the survival of model trains will have a better future and I think a better understanding for young people to take note what is available and which way if any, will they take up the hobby hopefully in future.


John & Thom – Thanks for your very cogent comments. Additionally, the expense, fixed-space needs and delayed gratification of MRR competes against the relatively cheap, portable & instant gratification provided by Playstations, “Apple-Apps” and their ilk. Especially among younger folks, that competition will continue to grow and may well be the primary cause of MRR’s dwindling reach.

Since I don’t like to see the hobby dwindle, the question I posed in starting this thread could well be extended -- from merely “Will NMRA be of value to me?” to: “and what actions with them can aid MRR’s continuing vitality?” Thom broadly addressed some of those actions.

My extension obviously changes the scope & nature of this Topic. Answers to it will also obviously require participants well beyond Forum members already in the MRR Choir. Any value in continuing the discussion here?

Regards – Richard
Long-time analog user, collector & tinkerer.
Discovered digital & began conversion a few years ago.
C-Track, CS2 Carpetbahn built, taken-down, rebuilt, etc.
Username reflects how much I still have to learn.
Offline seatrains  
#16 Posted : 13 March 2014 14:52:10(UTC)
seatrains

United States   
Joined: 22/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 669
Location: Shoreline, WA
Richard, if you get hooked up with some NMRA folks or other Euro-centric train addicts like us, report back to the group.ThumpUp
Thom
European Train Enthusiast - Pacific Northwest Chapter
4th Division, Pacific Northwest Region, National Model Railroaders Association
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