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Offline river6109  
#1 Posted : 22 February 2014 08:35:15(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Hi,
I may have missed it but I haven't seen any comments made about the new length Märklin passenger coaches.
has it made a lot of different to buyers what length they are now preferring ? whether 24cm (?), 27cm or 28.2cm

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 22 February 2014 08:48:06(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi, John,

Many posts have been written about the new coaches.

I have coaches of various lengths - and I will keep them, but I do not mix different types of shortened coaches in one train (exception: 27 cm class coaches and 1:100 class coaches will be mixed as they use same principles and length varies by few mm only).

And I won't buy any more shortened coaches.
Others stick to 24 cm coaches as those allow one more coach to fit into their stations.

See also:
https://www.marklin-user...-Mystery.aspx#post301761

Some of the coaches with the 1:93.5 logo in the product database are actually 1:97.5 and too short by 34 mm.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline bygger01  
#3 Posted : 26 February 2014 11:44:24(UTC)
bygger01

Denmark   
Joined: 23/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 181
Location: Herning in Denmark
A model railway layout will always be compromise and particularly when it comes to private layouts, because there is not unlimited space for large radii, long trains, and large distances between the individual stations.

So it fits a little too short passenger coaches nicely in many of ours layouts.

And if you drive E III or earlier, then were the coaches nor so long as they are to day .....
Best regards
Jørgen St. from Herning in DK
H0 / Märklin K track / CS3+ / full digital / Epoke III +/-
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Offline mike c  
#4 Posted : 27 February 2014 05:53:58(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
If somebody has a small oval using R1 and R2 with no straight tracks between quarter curves, I can understand space being an issue. For anybody who has straight tracks on the side or between curved tracks on their layout, there is no reason why you cannot replace your R1 and R2 with larger radius curves and eliminate those straight tracks. This allows you to run the 1/93 or even 1/87 coaches without problem. The only thing that is still needed is for Maerklin and other companies to make curved switches and other switches to match.

My plan is to eventually have a layout with a narrow central area (with Bahnhof) and a parade line, with a larger loop on each end. The extra space that I will be using for the larger curves will be offset by the narrower space occupied by the layout in the middle. On one end of the layout, I will probably have a narrow gauge (Bemo) or rural line with tighter radii, probably with some kind of reversing consist. Underneath the layout, I will have a shadow bahnhof where I can store a number of additional trains/consists.

That is the plan. In the meantime, I set up a layout on the floor ever so often, which also has a narrow middle to allow for passage in the corridor with larger loops at the ends.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline RayF  
#5 Posted : 27 February 2014 09:26:33(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Quote:
Hi,
I may have missed it but I haven't seen any comments made about the new length Märklin passenger coaches.
has it made a lot of different to buyers what length they are now preferring ? whether 24cm (?), 27cm or 28.2cm

John


I have a set of the CFL suburban coaches in the new longer length. I can only fit 3 of these coaches in my station (3 1/2?). Although they look very nice I still prefer the 27cm length as they look better on my small layout and are less likely to hit the catenary masts on curves.

For many years the 1:100 (ish) 27cm coaches were the "compromise of choice" with virtually all the HO manufacturers. We now seem to have a swing to a preference for longer lengths. Are people getting bigger houses?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline hxmiesa  
#6 Posted : 27 February 2014 09:56:07(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
For me, there is nothing really wrong with neither the 24, 27, 28,2 or 30,3cm.
I think I have some of each size.
The main problem is the MIXING of these; As I like to make up my own consists, it looks (to me) terrible when I mix different length coaches in the same train.
Not only that; It doesnt look too good either, when two trains parked side by side have different lengths, if they basically represents the same type of train!!! :-(

Most of my waggons are getting rather old and have accumulated some damages during the years of running, so when I gradually buy new ones, I prefer to stick to the "real" 1:87 (30,3cm) coaches. I prefer these long ones "because I can", but have been equally happy with the 27cm ones, when THOSE were the most suitable for my layout.

Lastly, IMHO, the move to 28,2cm just to squeeze the last funcional length out of the R1 curves with masts and signals on the side of the track, was really not necessarry. The length difference is minimal, and although they managed to fit in the CORRECT amount of windows on the side of the cars, the size and spacing of them is now WRONG. So they basically went from one compromise to another, instead of saving their effort for "real" scale length coaches (NO comprimises!) and maintaining their exisitng (and huge!) base of excellent 27cm coaches (Cost-effective!).
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline Tex  
#7 Posted : 04 March 2014 00:34:45(UTC)
Tex

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 276
Location: Houston, Texas
To each his own ! I have a large point-to-point layout with R1 and R2 curves ( mostly R2 ). I operate passenger trains with 4 or 5 coaches. My coaches are all green with a maximum length of 22.4 cm. I have had 24 cm coaches in the past but found them too long for my taste

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Offline christos563  
#8 Posted : 06 May 2014 12:30:34(UTC)
christos563

Greece   
Joined: 16/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 108
Location: thessaloniki
Hi from thessaloniki.
The waggons "YB70" with 10 appartments have length : 2.65+17.20+2.65 = 24.50 m
in the real. So they must have 263 mm as model.
The waggons B11 of DR and BDZ are 26.40 m long. 3.70+19.00+3.70 = 26.40 m.
So they have 283 or 282 mm as a model.
The double-decker waggons of DB regio and metronom are 3.40+20.00+3.40 = 26.80 m.
they must be 288 mm long as a model.

Greetings, christos563.
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Offline hxmiesa  
#9 Posted : 06 May 2014 13:00:06(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Hi,
I may have missed it but I haven't seen any comments made about the new length Märklin passenger coaches.
has it made a lot of different to buyers what length they are now preferring ? whether 24cm (?), 27cm or 28.2cm


M´s change to 28,2cm made the difference for me, that I am now looking exclusively at other brands, when shopping for long passenger waggons. (30,3cm)
I would happily consider buying Märklin (after all >90% of my stuff is from them), if they offered what I want.
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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H0
Offline Danlake  
#10 Posted : 06 May 2014 15:27:52(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,571
I prefer the shorter coaches, as even though my layout is modest in size I think it just look better with 3-4 coaches in a consist rather than 2 ultra long coaches...

If you use curves bigger than R1/R2 you will need a baseboard width greater than 110cm. With double track even wider. This is just on the limit to have work access (unless you are very tall with very long arms!) if that part of layout is placed along a wall.

If we could start all over I think the ideal scale would be 1:100ThumpUp

Brgds - Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline RayF  
#11 Posted : 06 May 2014 15:33:48(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
You could always model in TT!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Online Harvey  
#12 Posted : 06 May 2014 20:46:50(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 591
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
I prefer shorter coaches (24 or so) as I like to have 5-6 coaches but limited by space (stations and hidden yards). I use Mtrack and so limited to R1, R2. I don't mind the 'bad appearance' of a long coach on R1. I have coaches of 24 and up. My preference is 24 with interior lighting and current conducting couplers (and not rods).

Harvey
Offline Alsterstreek  
#13 Posted : 06 May 2014 22:44:55(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,666
Location: Hybrid Home
Another solution: Limit yourself to the 22 cm long four axle "Umbauwagen".
Alsterstreek attached the following image(s):
CC.png
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Offline RayF  
#14 Posted : 06 May 2014 23:40:58(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
There's one school of thought that says that you should limit yourself to branch line trains if you have a small space for a layout.

I can see how this allows you to run true to scale trains without compromises, but sooner or later everyone has the urge to model those beautiful express trains.

The compromise solution of having selective shortening of the longer coaches makes it possible for those of us with limited space to run such trains. Who can deny the appeal of those beautiful steam Tender locos like the Br01 or Br03, or the raw power of a main line diesel or electric at the head of a long distance passenger train?

I'm grateful that Märklin and others still think that there's room in the hobby for compromise.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline H0  
#15 Posted : 07 May 2014 08:07:14(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Who can deny the appeal of those beautiful steam Tender locos like the Br01 or Br03, or the raw power of a main line diesel or electric at the head of a long distance passenger train?
When modelling era III and earlier, there are many 1:87 coaches from Märklin (and others) that can be used. And coaches of those types were even used in era IV, so there are also some nice 1:87 short coaches for this era.

Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I'm grateful that Märklin and others still think that there's room in the hobby for compromise.
Märklin's 282 mm coaches are one step forward and two or three steps back.
When comparing coaches from Roco, Piko, and Märklin I found that Roco coaches are nice but expensive while Piko coaches are half as nice at half the price.
Märklin 282 mm coaches are close to Roco coaches (price-wise) but are not close to Piko coaches (detail-wise).
I will keep my shortened coaches (264 mm, 270 mm, 282 mm) but I will buy only 1:87 full length coaches in the future.

Length is not the only important aspect. The 303 mm coaches from Märklin have the same detail level as the 282 mm coaches. So while they are 1:87, I still won't buy more of those. Premium prices for over-compromised models won't do for me.

I'm grateful that different manufacturers offer models for different tastes.
I'm happy with my Märklin/Trix Schürzenwagen train I bought last year. Like Henrik I have to say that Märklin will not sell many coaches to me because their compromises are not my compromises.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline H0  
#16 Posted : 07 May 2014 08:09:23(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Another solution: Limit yourself to the 22 cm long four axle "Umbauwagen".
Or get some Schürzenwagen and other pre-war coaches.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline hxmiesa  
#17 Posted : 07 May 2014 09:45:58(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Length is not the only important aspect. The 303 mm coaches from Märklin have the same detail level as the 282 mm coaches. So while they are 1:87, I still won't buy more of those. Premium prices for over-compromised models won't do for me.

They do 30,3cm coaches? I was not aware of that. Can you help me with photo and/or reference numbers? (TIA)


Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline H0  
#18 Posted : 07 May 2014 12:11:35(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
They do 30,3cm coaches?
Märklin 43597.
Shortly before the insolvency, Trix aimed at the two-rail market with a lot of 1:87 announcements. These coaches are some of the items that were actually made.

Three coaches is all they have in 303 mm length now. I meant to say I wouldn't buy other, similar coaches at the same price and quality level if they should ever make more.
Before the insolvency they used the term "kompromissloser Längenmaßstab" (incompromised length scale), but the insolvency wiped that term and the related ambitions away.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline RayF  
#19 Posted : 07 May 2014 13:41:26(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
There's one school of thought that says that you should limit yourself to branch line trains if you have a small space for a layout.

I can see how this allows you to run true to scale trains without compromises, but sooner or later everyone has the urge to model those beautiful express trains.

The compromise solution of having selective shortening of the longer coaches makes it possible for those of us with limited space to run such trains. Who can deny the appeal of those beautiful steam Tender locos like the Br01 or Br03, or the raw power of a main line diesel or electric at the head of a long distance passenger train?

I'm grateful that Märklin and others still think that there's room in the hobby for compromise.


I stand by my statements. If I want to run Era IV (and more recent) coaches I am happy that there are manufacturers who will accomodate my needs.

The 1:93 coaches offered by marklin as the most recent compromise are still a bit long for my taste, by at least they will go round my R1 curves without hitting the catenary masts.

I'd like to see more of the 27cm (1:100) coaches in the "Hobby" series, and the 1:93 in the standard range. Marklin might then consider making 1:87 coaches under the Trix label for the more fastiduous 2 rail modellers and those others who like that sort of thing.

I am surprised actually by how many people here say they prefer the old 24cm (and shorter) coaches. I like them too, but they go best really with the classic 1960s Marklin locos as a "retro" look. Still, it shows that there is a broad range of interest in this hobby.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 5 users liked this useful post by RayF
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