I am waiting for the delivery of the new Roco Re 4/4II models. There are three different models, the famous red/beige TEE livery, the red livery of the period 1984-2012 and the Cargo variant Re 421 for use in Germany and Austria.
I have decided to order the TEE and red models to begin with. I have noticed a few detail issues with the Re 421 model that I will address in detail when the complete review is posted.

The TEE and Cargo models feature roof sections and panels in silver colour. There has been a lot of discussion as to whether this is prototypical or not. I looked through my books "TEE Zuege in der Schweiz" by Peter Willen (Eisenbahn Kurier), "Loki Spezial Re 4/4II/III" by Franz Eberhard (Loki) and my editions of "Die Gotthardbahn" by Marti & Trueb (Orell Fuessli) and could not find any photos of these silver roof sections. I did find a photo of one of the second series of TEE loks (11249-11253) that appears to show this feature. It has been suggested to me that the reason why I do not recall this detail is because the loks were put into service in 1969 and by 1972 when I was in Switzerland, the silver area had been discolored by carbon residue from the catenary and other dirt. The second batch were only manufactured and put into service in 1972 and were therefore "new" when the photo was taken. It was also suggested that this feature was restored on loks that were receiving comprehensive overhauls and would be returned to original status. I don't know whether this is the case, but it would help to explain why I have seen a few photos that have this feature.
Neither the Hag or Maerklin models have this. I do believe that at least one red Ae 6/6 model from Maerklin may have had similar roof colors.

I have also expressed some reserve about the bogie details on the Re 421. The Roco model comes with two different bogie designs, but seems to be missing the German DB Indusi magnet. I don't know if Roco mistook the Indusi magnet for a different type of bogie (from an earlier production of the Re 4/4II). I will provide more information once I have the models and replies to my queries about these details in German forums.

I am very pleased by what I have seen so far in the red and TEE models. The TEE model has the correct positioning of the Swiss crest, which was raised so that it was completely in the beige colored part of the lok. The Maerklin and Hag models had the crest wrongly positioned midway between the red and beige regions. The TEE version also has lowered positions for the SBB CFF and SBB FFS markings, which are entirely in the red part. Both TEE and red loks feature raised letters and numbers.
The red model has the retrofitted rearview mirror that was built into the cab doors on the right side of each cab. The red model also has the modified left side cab window and airconditioning panel.

Here is a video showing the digital and sound effects of the new model (red):

Enjoy this and I will provide a full review and comparison with the Hag and Maerklin models as soon as I have received the Roco models from my dealer.

Regards

Mike C

Charles,

there is some more information here: https://www.marklin-user...EE-and-Re-421-Cargo.aspx

The German price goes between 240 and 280 EUR depending on whether the model has sound or not. Swiss prices are higher. US prices so far are $250 to $320 depending on version and dealer. Customers from outside Europe can request a reduction of the VAT (19%) for Export from EU dealers.

The model numbers are as follows:

72400/72401 Re 4/4II TEE DC/DC Sound 11158
72402/72403 Re 4/4II Red DC/DC Sound 11202
72404/72405 Re 421 Cargo DC/DC Sound 421 387-2

The AC models are the same, but replace the 72 with 78, so 78400/78401 and so on.

Regards

Mike C

I have ordered the AC sound version of the Re 4/4II, so I will be able to confirm once it arrives. Both AC and DC sound models come with Zimo sound decoders, so there should be no reason why they would have different sounds. Based on the demo, it seems more elaborate than the sounds included with the Re 4/4II template included with loksound decoders for the past decade.
The Departure Announcement #1 "Gleis 4 Interregio nach Zug, Arth-Goldau, Bellinzona, Locarno..." unfortunately cannot be used for imaginary stations higher up the alpine route. If they would have sampled it with only Arth-Goldau, it could have been used for a train from Basel (via Luzern) or from Zurich. As it is, the announcement is only valid for trains leaving Zuerich va Thalwil.
As I add more of these models with Zimo decoders, I may look into a programmer for these decoders to go alongside my ESU Lokprogrammer so that I can modify the sounds too.
I am trying to decide whether the red Re 4/4II will be used for one of my EC/Intercity/Interregio trains or for my Regio push-pull with blue/white/yellow NPZ EWI and matching RailTop pilot coach.

Interregio (Basel-Chiasso/Zurich-Locarno)
Re 4/4II - Apm - Apm (Panorama) - B (EWIV) - B (RIC ex-Bm) - B (UIC-Z ex Bpm) - Bpm - Bpm
R78403 - R64368 - R44768 - R45328 - LS47228* - LS47243 - R64366 - R64367 (R=Roco, LS=LS Models) *=from Set

Interregio Push-Pull
Re 4/4II - EWII A - EWIIA** - EWII B - EWII B - EWII B - EWI BDt
R78403 - R44495 - R44495 - R44496 - R64363 - R44496 - RT21401 (RT=RailTop) **EWI A (Lima 309491 or Hag Papagei IR model can be used instead)

Regio Push-Pull
Re 4/4II - EWI AB*** - EWI B - EWI B - EWI BDt
R78403 - LM 309421 - LM309670 - LM309223 - RT21401 (LM=Lima) ***EWI A (LM309483) can be used instead of AB

RailTop models are relatively hard to find and go for above original retail cost. LS Models has announced new pilot coach models that will also be compatible with the Re 4/4II.
If you find a DC model of the RailTop coach, you can easily convert it to AC using parts still available from RailTop.

Regards

Mike C

Edited by user 05 December 2012 09:02:03(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I thought that I would add a photo or two of my new Roco red Re 4/4II (78403) as well as a few comparison shots with Maerklin's 37356:

One of the facets of European trains that fascinated me was the fact that the loks had two cabs. In North America, most locomotives had one cab and the train was always running cab forward. European loks could drive up to a consist, couple, and then drive off in the other direction. Installing the prototype plow and details would prevent me from being able to reproduce this in miniature. Some may choose appearance, but I prefer function (in this regard). I will likely replace the classic coupler with a close coupling head. I have not yet examined the accessories bag, but I am sure that the plow piece is included.

Regards

Mike C

Right off the bat, the first thing you notice is that the Roco model has the crest correctly positioned so that it is entirely within the beige painted area. The Hag and Maerklin models have not accounted for this difference, leaving the crest positioned in the regular position for a green or red Re 4/4 II, which is not prototypical for the TEE livery. This is offset by the fact that the Hag and Maerklin models have a more prototypical rendition of the ventilators on the side of the roof. The Roco model has the design which corresponds to later versions of the Re 4/4II. Ironically, this detail seemed to have been correct on the initial prototype of the production, but was changed after some modellers pointed out to the company that this design was not correct for a model with air conditioning (Era VI).
The Roco and Maerklin loks have LED lights. In my case, the yellow LEDs have been replaced with bright white LEDs. I did this because I thought it was more appropriate to have the model with red taillight available for my 37344 red Re 4/4II that I use for push-pull NPZ regional trains. My 37343 now has the features of the 37342 including long distance headlights as the added function.
The Hag lok has light bulbs and does not have the standard Swiss light reversal. Only the three headlights at the front of the lok are on at a time. One downside for the Hag Re 4/4II and a lot of Hag loks is that when the lok is travelling with the motor bogie in front, the light from the bulb shines through the opening for the motor block, illuminating the rails. I would be interested to hear if anybody has managed to correct this issue.

The Roco lok has a Revision date from 1978: R1 Yv 18.5.78 (Yv=Yverdon). The Hag lok has Rec Ge 8.5.69 (Ge=Geneve). The Maerklin lok has Rec Ge 17.07.69 (Ge=Geneve). All three loks have Basel as depot. The loks were used in rotation from 1969-1971 to pull the TEE Roland from Basel to Luzern and from Luzern to Chiasso. These loks was also used to pull the TEE Arbalete (SNCF Mistral 56 coaches) as well as the TEE Helvetia from Basel to Zurich and back. Starting in 1971, the two trains were combined in Basel and included coaches from the TEE Helvetia for the run from Basel to Zurich and back. Prior to that, the Helvetia had included a few coaches that went on to Amsterdam as part of the TEE Rembrandt (from Mannheim).

With a revision date from 1978, the Roco lok would not be prototypical for the heyday of TEE travel. By 1978, many of the Trans Europ Express services had already been phased out in favour of dual class Intercity services. The TEE Roland was phased out in spring 1979 and the TEE loks were assigned to other duties. The Roland was replaced on the route to Italy by the IC Tiziano.
So, the Roco lok could technically have seen operation for one year with TEE coaches. After that, it might have been used for a few years with the mixed red/beige and blue/beige IC coaches. Most frequently, they could be found pulling normal SBB EWI, EWII, RIC and later EWIV coaches.

The Roco model features silver coloured (Aluminum?) details on the roof. The loks might have appeared this shiny upon delivery, but I don't think that they looked this way any time since. I doubt that they would have been completely polished or repainted after a R1 revision. The Maerklin lok has sliver vents on a dark grey roof. The Hag model has a more shiny grey colour, but is also uniform (roof and vents).
I saw these loks in Luzern, Arth-Goldau and Zurich in 1972. Unfortunately, a 9 year old's point of view prevents any possible view of the roof. Matter of fact, that would be a challenge for pretty much everybody at the time except for maybe one or two basketball players. Somehow I did not remember the roof of the lok (and DB coaches) being as dark as on many models, so maybe the Hag wins here.

As far as sound, the Roco lok has much better sounds than the Hag (ESU) and the Maerklin lok was not available with sound.

I love all three loks and will find consists for each one.

The Maerklin 37343 will pull my 42991 TEE Helvetia consist
The Hag 216 will pull my Trix 23477 TEE Roland consist
The Roco 78401 will pull my 1/87 Roco Eurofima and matching coaches or my Lima (TEE/IC Erasmus) set (as TEE Roland)

Regards

Mike C

The Roco model is a little lighter, but from what I have observed, will have no problem pulling a 5-7 coach train (passenger) or a slightly longer freight train. If the coaches are equipped with sliders, this may add to the drag and pose a potential problem. Current conducting couplers would likely resolve any such issue.

My longest trains for my new Re 4/4IIs will be the EC Transalpin (RailTop), The EN Wienerwalzer (RailTop, LSM, ACME) and the City Night Line Train (LSM. RailTop).

Regards

Mike C

Review ?

Mike have you got any photos from your layout ? would be nice to see these locos running

John

Well, AFAIK all 421 with Cargo livery are not automatically equipped to get on the DB networks.
Only those that travel North of the (Swiss) border will have the Indusi.
Those are also equipped with two different pantographs, the narrow whip one for the SBB catenary, the wider one for the DB.
Märklin's RE 421 397 has both the Indusis under the bogies and the different pantos.
Cheers

Jacques,

Tom is correct. The Re 421 (421 371 - 421 397) (originally Re 4/4II 11371-11397) were all rebuilt with German pantograph and train security system for the Cargo Division. As a result, the loks were renumbered Re 421.
The only other SBB loks that are capable of operation in Germany are the Re 482 and the leased BR 186 (Railpool). I do not know if the Re 484 and Re 474 are equipped for operation in Germany or whether they are at present equipped only for operation in Switzerland and Italy.

Regards

Mike C

The Re 460s are used in Switzerland only. They are not equipped with the safety equipment and pantographs for use in Germany and Austria. A number of the BLS Re 465 were equipped with DB Pantographs and are used north of Basel as far as Freiburg, where the terminal for the RAlpin ROLA service is located. Other Swiss loks can operate as far as Weil am Rhein using a special track from Basel to the container terminal there.

The Swiss loks that can be seen on German rails are as follows:

Re 421
Re 482
BR 186 (leased from Railpool)
Am843 (some loks)
RBDe 560 (a number of NPZ trainsets around Basel)
RAe 1053 TEE
SBB TGV POS Trainset

The Re 474 and 484 may still have the equipment for Germany, but may also have been adapted for use only in CH/I only as SBB Cargo has enough tractive stock for German operations. Where SBB Cargo had a need for additional loks was for traffic in Benelux. This was solved by leasing a number of BR 186 from Railpool and in return, making some Re 482 available to Railpool to lease to other operators in Germany. A number of Re 421 are also currently being operated by German operators under rental/lease agreements.
The full list can be found at www.elektrolok.de

Regards

Mike C

The Re 481 were originally delivered for the MThB (Mittelthurgaubahn) and SOB through their Lokoop venture. They were used on the MThB network as well as on some sections of the SOB and SBB. With the bankruptcy of the MThB, the loks were acquired by the SBB, who assigned them to the Cargo Division. At that point, rather than having six unique loks in the fleet, it was decided to restore the loks to their original condition and operate them in Germany, as the Re 482 had not yet been delivered in sufficient numbers, nor had the Re 421 conversions yielded adequate loks for foreseen operations in Germany.
The loks were basically the equivalent of the DB class 145, so when sufficient Re 482 and Re 421 were available to handle the traffic, the Re 481 were traded to Bombardier in return for credits against the Re 482 purchases and were then leased by Bombardier's leasing division to various German operators, where they continue to operate to this day.

As far as I know, there are two Re 4/4I in use in Germany (Centralbahn) and one more which is currently stabled in Austria. I think that there are also one or two Crocodiles out there too.

Regards

Mike C

There is a German class 110 at the other end of the train.

Here's another picture:
http://www.bahnbilder.de...br-110-kasten-311419.jpg

The Re 460 seems to have a wiper for German catenary, with red horns at the sides of the wiper.
Märklin livery and a picture taken at Göppingen?

BTW: The Ae 6/6 was constructed for a maximum speed of 125 km/h. One of them ran in Germany and reached a speed of 200 km/h. It also had red horns at the wipers:
http://www.drehscheibe-f...oren/read.php?17,3415186
Without German INDUSI, these speed tests were probably made in "all green" mode (whole track reserved for the Swiss loco exclusively).

The Re 460, if it ran by itself, may have been limited to 100 km/h and requiring two drivers in the cab to compensate the lack of INDUSI.

It's out. My Bourret should be on it's way soon. Don't tell me you don't want one too…

http://www.memoba.at/bilder/roco_ro72410.htm

Regards

Mike C

This ebay auction is the first one for the Re 4/4II in the Bourret livery in AC and likely shows the improved version of the loco shell (paintjob) from Roco:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/R...-H0-Sound-/201065672241?
Check with your dealer for more details if you are waiting for this model.

My dealer just informed me that my "Bourret" is ready to ship. I am looking forward to it and this will look amazing in front of a typical early 1980s SBB Schnellzug.

Regards

Mike C

Edited by user 04 April 2014 11:16:56(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Mike, I am happy to hear that Roco is so responsive! Wouldn't it be great if more companies were like this!