Mike you always welcome to try them out on my layout,

My suspicion is, modellers who have a smaller or medium layout do not bother going for the prototypical consists and even 7 carriages (1:87) = you need 2.4 meters incl. loco.
but it isn't for me to say this is the case.
on a slight off topic, on another forum I was reminded my Austrian consists are not prototypical. having a car carriage right next to the loco, well I just watched a video showing exactly that.

John

I like to run what I consider to be representative trains, and I'm not too bothered about what was or is prototypical as long as it looks plausible.

I start by working out the maximum number of coaches that will fit in my station. For local trains that's usually two bogie coaches or three short coaches, and for expresses it can be four or five bogie coaches. If it seems appropriate I will then have one 1st class, two 2nd class, one baggage and one restaurant, leaving out one of these if it doesn't fit.

I follow much the same rule as Ray, but limiting it to seven coaches. This means a German IC-train would be A+A+WR+B+B+B+B and the engine could be at either end.

Another train that I sometimes use as a prototype for my trains is the EN Alfred Nobel that ran between Hamburg Altona and Stockholm C/Oslo S with German coaches. I then focus on the segment for the southbound Stockholm to Hamburg consist which some years ran as a train of its own and some years with Swedish coaches at the end of the train. The composition of the train was an SJ class Rc engine followed by, depending on the season, one or two TEN WLAB and then two to four DB BC coaches. However, given the difficulty finding BC-coaches I normally use just ordinary DB B-coaches.

Here is a picture I found on the Internet of the southbound train at Norrköping C (note the time 19h34):


The train some years had Swedish coaches that were included from Stockholm C to Nässjö C. In the official timetable the train ran non-stop from there to Lübeck Hbf I believe it was, but in practice it had to stop at Helsingborg F to be ferried over to Helsingør (Denmark) on ferries that could only take three coaches at the time (a 20 minute crossing). It was in Helsingør that the consist from Stockholm and that from Oslo were joined to one train that continued to Rødby Færge (engine: a DSB Mx, My or Mz) where the train was put on a ferry to Puttgarden (Germany) for a 50 minute crossing. These ferries could take up to twelve coaches. From Puttgarden the train was headed by for instance a DB 218 to Hamburg. The two ferry crossings meant that this train was never longer than twelve coaches and never more than six to Stockholm and six for Göteborg and Oslo. My recollection of the timetable was that it left Stockholm around 18h00 and arrived at Hamburg Hbf between 8h00 and 9h00. Today there are no night trains and the fastest connection on weekdays is from Stockholm at 5h21 arriving at Hamburg Hbf at 16h16 with a change of trains at København H (arriving at 10h32 and departing at 11h44) and there is no ferry between Sweden and Denmark only that between Denmark and Germany. (On Saturdays the time table shows a 6h21 departure and only 12 minutes to change trains in København H [compared to the 1h12 on weekdays] and I wouldn't trust such a short time for a train travelling a distance of more than 600 km between Stockholm C and København H).

Edited by user 07 February 2013 14:36:18(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Hi,

Some people just model N gauge, where a 14 car consist is more plausible.

But for us in HO, the 'representative' train as Ray puts it, is about all we can cope with.

Luckily for me, the early part of era III in Germany, had some expresses with 3 coaches, and quite common too.

regards
Kimball

Hi, I usually do not have passenger trains with more than six coaches though 5 + Lok fit my
main station best.

E.G. Circa 1990 DB IC with Lok BR103 + 4292 2nd cl. compartment + 4225 2nd cl. open seating +
4294 DB Restaurant coach + 4224 1st cl. open seating + 4298 1st cl. compartment with tail lights.

Peter

Hi all,
In someway we are misusing the term 'consist', In NA terms this means a consist of locomotives,not a train.

In German railways a train can be anything.

Dr D

Respecting what some members have said about having limited space, I can identify with that. I get to enjoy my long consists when I have the opportunity to lay out the tracks on the floor. Most of the time, I can run maybe 6 1:100 coaches, 5 28cm or 4 1:87 coaches on my little test oval. I prefer not to use the 30cm coaches on the test oval because they hang over the curves.

There is something special about a full length exact scale consist running the length of the room with larger (R4 or R5) curves.

For a shorter train on the test oval, I usually would have one or two first class, a restaurant or baggage and then three or four second class.
To use the passing siding and have two trains, the max length would be 5 1:100 coaches.

Regards

Mike C

I've got 3 types of German IC / IR coaches - White with Red stripes, White with Red and Pink stripes, and White with light Blue stripes.

For each of the sets, I have about 7 or 8 cars per train, but my layout can accommodate 6. Generally I would have 2 first class cars, a Restaurant car, 2 second class cars and an end cab control car, along with a Br 101 / 120 / 103 / 185 loco.

Like Ray, I try to keep the consist representative of the real thing.

In fact, I had one of the trains on a friend's layout just this week, where I could run 7 coaches plus loco. In this case, I had an extra second class car in the train. The loco is a Br101.

Hi David,
I have that same IC Train and several 101's in different liveries, very nice thanks for the pic

However because of space constraints and for the reasoning used by Ray, I have just the end car and one other on my "layout" at the moment headed by my 182 Taurus, for consist testing purposes. (I have a function decoder in the end car)
Considering the wise and practical words of Tom and Ray above, I believe the other ingrediant we must use is our IMAGINATION. My IC train usually only gets to run on our Modular SIG layout, same with my ICEIII in full 8 car consist.
Even my new layout will not accomodate them, but it will be an era 2-3/4 continuum

Hi Dr D,

The word 'consist' does mean 2 or more locos coupled together in North America, but the word lash-up is as far as I know, more commonly used for the same thing.

A train is a 'consist' of whatever it takes to make up a line of vehicles coupled together. The word 'train' was originally a military term to denote the movement of artillery, being made up of a gun carriage, and ancillary carriages carrying shot and powder, and other artillery hardware.

In the use of English, the word 'consist' is therefore entirely appropriate to denote a railway train.

regards
Kimball

That's right, a consist of locomotives, as in a train of locomotives.

Hi Dr D,

Yes, I also have an NCE Power Cab, and the word consist has been coined by DCC manufacturers to denote a lash-up of locos. As a result, it has come into common use for that purpose. However, that of itself, should never limit the use of the word generally.

On the Railways of Germany Forum, they also use the word 'composition' in describing a train, but I personally use 'consist'. As in, what is the consist for a Long Henry ore train? Answer: 20 or more ore cars of type ....

I apologize for this OT dissertation on the use of English (a bit of a hobby-horse I'm afraid.)

regards
Kimball

In Germany a train can be as short as 1 Lok and 0 Wagen (called a Leerzug (Lz), meaning "empty train").
All those locos where you cannot turn off the red tail lights are candidates for such Leerzüge.

While this does not help with the topic of this thread (short model consists of long prototype trains), it provides a nice excuse to run locos without coaches.

Mike C,

Great trains you run ^^ !


LOL John,

I recognize your penchant for freight "consistency" ... ^^

Yum

PS: "Representative" consists for my available linear straight line space are 5 x 24cm cars in these combos :

Long distance :
- Passenger 1st / Diner / Passenger 2nd / Sleeper or Lounge / Baggage
- Passenger 1st / Diner or Lounge / Passenger 2nd (x2) / Baggage or Mixed

Night trains:
- Baggage / Sleeper 1st / Diner or Lounge / Sleeper 2nd (x 2)
- Baggage / Sleeper 1st / Diner or Lounge / Sleeper 2nd / Auto transport

Work trains :
...

From my own memory of physically traveling on these trips, seems to work for both EU and US trains, so far ... (can even be pushed to 7 cars in the same proportions, your call on more 1st or 2nd class ... )

... Pix, someday ^^ ;)

Edited by user 09 February 2013 21:54:09(UTC)  | Reason: extra stuff ...

Hi again everyone,

Whether a rake of railway wagons is a consist or a train is merely choosing between the American or English terms for it, since both are correct, since the two word's have the same
meaning and the Americans chose consist simply to be different, so as they say each too his own.

In Australia most consists are based on the needs , IE If it is a peak hour train you have more, off peak you have less so most suburban trains have eight car's and most outer suburban
trains have eight cars and are rarely broken down into smaller units.

However there was a Workers train that ran to Clyde and Carlingford that was only four car's long during peak hour's but at night was only two car's

In Queensland most peak hour services have six and off peak have three since they are EMU's

And as far as I know basic commuter services from the region's in Germany could have as little as two cars so
a three to four car train would not be unusual.

Winterberg is a very popular tourism spot due to skiing and the train service to there was only three car's for
most of the 1970's and is now two car's but it is a two hour service, so because it is a reasonably regular service
it has only two.

So a consist is any number of carriages that are sufficient to provide the service no more no less

And consist also includes the locomotives and an engine running singularly as a light engine run is also a consist albeit not a very big one.

Edited by user 12 May 2013 22:03:54(UTC)  | Reason: Additional Info

Hi again

Also a lot of our country services were provided by diesel rail car's similar to the small engined bus like things that were the main stay of regional services in Germany through the 50's
and 60's ours were the 600 and 900 class sets.

I traveled on these things with my father out to Mudgee a few times.

The only trains that exceed 8 or more carriages is the Indian Pacific and The Ghan.

The Spirit Of Progress and Southern Aurora did on occasions but the XPT's that replaced them rarely exceed 7

Hi again everybody

I also remember seeing in American literature about trains that a lot of the branch line trains at the start of the railway's and into the 19th century would have as little a one passenger car and
caboose or maybe one box as well so three vehicles in a train.