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Offline Bagrym  
#1 Posted : 17 December 2012 09:38:19(UTC)
Bagrym

Belarus   
Joined: 17/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Minsk
Dear marklin community.

Need your advise please as I can't find answer for my issue myself (I have basic knowledges in electronics).

Recently I have bought marklin H0 track, loco BR 89 006 in Germany at flee market. All is in good conditions at first look. Seller didn't have transformer however for it and couldn't get one before I left Germany.

After some surfing in internet I have figured out I have most likely sfcm motor type which uses AC. At local radio market in Minsk I got custom made transformer from 220 V/ 50 Hz to 16 V (16-11 V with 1 V step) and power of 1 A. When I connect it to track (1 pole to wheels and another one to slide) I get lamp lightning and some noise only from reverse relay area. No movement. With tester I can see I have 16 V potential on loco (between lamp and track).

Inside of loco everything looks clean (especially field coil - like new), except 2 wires connected to reverse relay - isolation of both wires look a bit burned, but not fully damaged (there was no smoke when I connected power to the track). Can it be I simply have no enough power to move it?

I really would like to get it run around new year tree for my nephews. But after all the reading in internet - checking layouts etc I am getting addictive and now have idea to get some small layout. I know about advantages of digital marklin but first want to deal with analog.

Thank you for any suggestions!

Edited by user 17 December 2012 09:44:24(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#2 Posted : 17 December 2012 10:14:05(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 875
The engine may have been sitting for too long and the old oil harden up. If you don't want to dissasemble the whole lot first try to rotate the rotor a bit manually. You can do that by pushing the gears with a screw driver. it can be done gently as well byu moving the wheels but I generally avoid this as you could damage the axles. in some engines it can't be done at all.

Unless the loco is very old and has a manual lever you are going to find the issue that to reverse the loco you'll need a pulse of 24V.
Offline Bagrym  
#3 Posted : 17 December 2012 10:51:33(UTC)
Bagrym

Belarus   
Joined: 17/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Minsk
Originally Posted by: Iamnotthecrazyone Go to Quoted Post
The engine may have been sitting for too long and the old oil harden up. If you don't want to dissasemble the whole lot first try to rotate the rotor a bit manually. You can do that by pushing the gears with a screw driver. it can be done gently as well byu moving the wheels but I generally avoid this as you could damage the axles. in some engines it can't be done at all.

Unless the loco is very old and has a manual lever you are going to find the issue that to reverse the loco you'll need a pulse of 24V.


Thanks, Iamnotthecrazyone, for the advise. This is what I have tried already - rotated the rotor manually by rotating one of the gear. I don't really know how easy they should move - but I can say I had to apply some pressure to move it. I couldn't move wheels themselves at all.

Can you advise what kind of special oil (or reasonable replacement) I should use? To exclude motor poor oiling as a factor.

And got it about reverse movement - if I finally move loco forward will think how to change voltage to control speed and then how to reverse it.
Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#4 Posted : 17 December 2012 11:05:47(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 875
Ok, in that case it seems to me you will have to at least take the rotor out and clean the axle and the holes it fits into. It shouldn't be that hard to move when everything is in proper working order, it seems it is not.

Take the brushes away, unscrew the two screws that hold the commutator and see if you can take the rotor. If you can, desolder the cables that are in the way. Take a photo so you know how to put them back again the right way. Without the rotor the gears and wheels should rotate freely. Clean it and re oil. If you can get model railway/hobby oil is best but otherwise any machinery light oil will have to do and should cause you no problem as long as you don't put too much of it. If you can get it Singer sewing maching oil can be a good replacement.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Iamnotthecrazyone
Offline franciscohg  
#5 Posted : 17 December 2012 11:07:13(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,609
Location: Patagonia
hi, welcome to the forum. the noise you described in the reverse unit area, is from a reverse unit working? if you may check the tension of the unit's spring, that may cause the reverse unit to work with less voltage and the loco not to run. you can adjust the tension by bending the little brass section where the spring is attached with a screwdriver.
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by franciscohg
Offline Bagrym  
#6 Posted : 17 December 2012 11:11:43(UTC)
Bagrym

Belarus   
Joined: 17/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Minsk
Thanks guys for quick feedback. First I'll try to adjust spring and then oil the mechanism. Will let know how it works.
Offline Bagrym  
#7 Posted : 18 December 2012 09:10:20(UTC)
Bagrym

Belarus   
Joined: 17/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Minsk
OK, loco is moving - I think the problem was oiling at the end as spring tension was good enough. After dissembling, oiling of moving parts - rotor, gears - all is working. Appreciate all the advices.

One more observation: when I put 16 Volts on track the loco is twitching only 1 cm toward or 1 cm backward. When I put 11 Volts - smooth move.

Can anyone suggest please Marklin transformer # which definitely fits 3000 BR 89 0006 analog? Just to see transformer output parameters in internet. And now I guess I need to find potentiometer powerful enough to change the speed ( I have 1 A current). When it works - will figure out how to change direction then.
Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#8 Posted : 18 December 2012 09:44:20(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 875
Originally Posted by: Bagrym Go to Quoted Post
OK, loco is moving - I think the problem was oiling at the end as spring tension was good enough. After dissembling, oiling of moving parts - rotor, gears - all is working. Appreciate all the advices.

One more observation: when I put 16 Volts on track the loco is twitching only 1 cm toward or 1 cm backward. When I put 11 Volts - smooth move.

Can anyone suggest please Marklin transformer # which definitely fits 3000 BR 89 0006 analog? Just to see transformer output parameters in internet. And now I guess I need to find potentiometer powerful enough to change the speed ( I have 1 A current). When it works - will figure out how to change direction then.


Good to hear is working, the thing about moving forth or back 1cm will have to do with the spring tension. It is the way they change direction, unless you have measured the voltage with a good tester I would not touch that for the moment just use a lower voltage. The transformer, I assume you use 220V in Minsk. If you can't get them localy may be through ebay germany you can get a good deal for a 220V trafo. Just about any "marklin" labeled transformer -with a control knob of course- would do. Your engine is small so any small one would do. Here I put the link to one of the more modern ones. I have not checked prices for second hand so I don't know how good this is.
www.ebay.de/itm/Marklin-...&hash=item337e8397ca You'll probably find that the old classic blue transformers are cheaper.

Edited by user 18 December 2012 09:53:17(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline steventrain  
#9 Posted : 18 December 2012 16:21:02(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 27,295
Location: Northern Ireland
Hi Bagrym,

Welcome to the forum.
Largest Marklinist Layout with Centrail station 2/Mobile station 2/60174 boosters/C-Tracks/K-Tracks/M-tracks/Favorites class BR01, BR23, BR50, E103, E120/Insider Club membership since 2004.
Offline intruder  
#10 Posted : 18 December 2012 17:31:58(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,532
Location: Akershus, Norway
Hello Bagrym, and welcome from Norway, too

The analogue Märklin transformers for train control outputs a variable AC current, from approx 4 to approx 16 volts.
Some smaller transformers, and maybe some older ones, outputs from 7 to 16 volts.

The spring on top of the reversing unit should be stronger than the magnetic force from the coil even at 16 volts, so the shifting arm should not move.

When turning the speed knob on the tranformer, against a spring force, to the left of zero, the transformer outputs approx 24 volts shifting voltage.
24 volts gives a stronger magnetic field around the coil in the reversing unit, pulling the shifter arm. The shifter arm flips the mechanical shifting rocker contact from one side to the other, changing the ground connection of the motor's double magnetic field coil from one to the other.

As the two coils are wound opposite directions, the magnetic north and south pole swaps place. As both the coils are connected in series with the rotor, which always gets the same phase; the rotation direction reverses.

It is a good wiring diagram of the 3000 here:
http://www.traindoctor.co.nz/ma...e-care.htm#wiringcolours
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by intruder
Offline Ian555  
#11 Posted : 18 December 2012 18:03:01(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 18,645
Location: Scotland
Hi Bagrym,

Welcome to the forum. ThumpUp

Ian.

Offline Bagrym  
#12 Posted : 19 December 2012 09:11:19(UTC)
Bagrym

Belarus   
Joined: 17/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Minsk
Thanks, guys, for welcoming and all the advices. I'm really glad I could receive all the feedbacks so quick. Marklin is not popular in our country at all, so to get all the artifacts is not easy locally. So, will be using ebay and my regular trips to Germany.

Yesterday I got 15 Wt potentiometer for 0-15 Ohm. Now loco is accelerating and slowing down. My cat is going crazy of new toy. Today going to assemble some track under new year-tree and give some pleasure to nephews on WE.

Will learn then how to get 24V pulse on relay.

Got some turnouts with manual lever - going to use arduino these days to switch it remotely. Have to use step motors for that...
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#13 Posted : 19 December 2012 09:46:56(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 13,868
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Iamnotthecrazyone Go to Quoted Post
Singer sewing maching oil can be a good replacement.


Welcome to the forum Bagrym.

Singer sewing machine oil is probably too thin for use on MRR locomotives, I'd recommend a proper oil for MRR such as the Labelle series of oils (I use 102), or the Marklin oil, or maybe clean 30/40 engine oil.
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