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Offline Mark5  
#51 Posted : 25 October 2012 21:44:52(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Originally Posted by: MM-MarkMontreal Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Mark...[...]...
It was very interesting to see how the East Germans came up with many designs as response to West German innovations, how some productions were cancelled and the production equipment moved to other East Bloc countries according to Soviet central planning of manufacture. The DDR versions of the V160 and V200 never went into large scale production and a lot of the equipment used to build the prototypes was taken to Russia and used to build the Lludmilla and Taigatrommel classes which went on to become the Eastern Bloc workhorses.


Thanks so much Mike.

Been ruminating on this. What an amazing story. Any idea where I read more about this or see photos of the DDR versisons of V160 and V200? Books? Photos?


Found a partial answer to my own question here:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/DR-Baureihe_V_200

Is anyone is interesting in checking the translation works or has corrections for me,
Google translator did this:
The series V 200 of the Deutsche Reichsbahn was a series of diesel-electric locomotives. She is built for the DDR version of the Soviet type M62. With the introduction of computer numbers at the Deutsche Reichsbahn 1970 she was re-drawn on the series 120th The last ones were 1992, the pan-German series designation 220th series

Contents

1 History
2 Technology
3 Applications
4 V 200 at industrial railways
5 Literature
6 Web

History

In the 1960s, the conversion of the traction of steam was propagated on diesel. For this purpose not only locomotives in Babelsberg and Hennigsdorf were built, but also locomotives from Luhansk in the Soviet Union (now Ukraine) imported. This was necessary because in the future due to specialization agreements within the Council for Mutual Economic Assistance (CMEA) in the GDR no longer diesels higher power should be built. The first of these series, the V 200 was imported, later BR. 120 to 1,470 kW (2,000 hp) for freight service These were the best type M 62, which was delivered many years of Soviet and foreign cars. From 1966 to 1975 involved the German Reichsbahn total of 378 locomotives of this type.

Technology

The locomotive had a very heavy frame of double-T beams with cover and base plate, two three-axle bogies with skid plates, axles and conducted Drehzapfenanlenkung. The primary suspension is realized by compensating lever, leaf and coil springs.

14D40 a two-stroke V-type diesel engine with two turbochargers and Roots blower is at the heart of this locomotive. The capacity is 1470 kW at a speed of 750 min-1. The traction energy was converted by a separately excited DC generator. The power control was performed by a magnetic flux in the exciter field control the exciter. The traction motors are DC series wound motors. The electric traction power was set to 1250 kW. To the armature currents of the driving motors in the upper speed range again to raise the engine possessed two Shuntierungsstufen that were connected in parallel to the excitation windings of the six nose-traction motors. A similar design is used the locomotive family of DR series 130th

The fans for traction motors and traction generator are mechanically driven by drive shafts from the diesel engine. The cooling fan is driven directly by the diesel engine, for controlling a fluid coupling is connected therebetween. A special component for the Roots blower. It promotes combustion air and produces a pre-compression of 0.2 bar. This is necessary, because a two-stroke engine has to be flushed, it can not simultaneously open inlet and outlet valves draw slots automatically. After the start, the two turbochargers running high boost pressure and increase to around 1.2 bar. The diesel engine was 400 min-1 idle speed, but even at 750 min-1 its maximum speed. The engine has cylinders in V formation. The pistons of the B-side sit with Anlenkpleueln Hauptpleueln on the A side. This changes the piston speeds between the A and B side. The engine produces on both cylinder banks differ much power. The fuel gauge is 3900 liters of diesel oil. A Sifa was present Indusi not.

Since the first 177 locomotives shipped from the factory still had a muffler and thus produced a high noise level, they are also known colloquially as "Taiga Drum" or "Stalin's last revenge" means. For these locomotives were the silencer through the Raw Meiningen rebuilt and installed in part prior to the loss.

Use
DR 120 268, Dresden 1981st
220 355 in the Railway Museum Hermeskeil

The locomotive was designed from the start for heavy freight service. Since they had no train heating, it was only occasionally strained during the summer months before passenger trains. Top speed was in favor of pulling force at 100 km / h

Once up to the reunification of the Federal Railroad locomotives already all series were scrapped 220, the German Reichsbahn 1992 drew more than 200 vehicles in its class 120 "Series 220" by. Until its final shutdown in 1995, these locomotives also contributed to the merger of Deutsche Bahn AG, the series designation 220 in the second assignment.

The German Bahn AG has seven specimens for museum purposes. In the tradition depot Staßfurt from the last series, the 120 366 has not been maintained in working order. Even the Railway Museum Chemnitz-Hilbersdorf owns the 120,269 a copy. The Dresden Transport Museum has kept its 120,338 long time in his custody at the depot Dresden Altstadt in the neighborhood of Dresden Railway Museum. The depot has Arnstadt with 120,274 also a copy of the 120th series For the railway enthusiasts Thuringia in Weimar is the 120 198 and at the Mecklenburg Railway enthusiasts in the former depot Schwerin 001 and the 120.

Some machines have been sold to Lithuania and North Korea as well as to German private railway. Also from the factory purchased by other countries locomotives (former PKP ST44 series of PKP and 781 ČD), some in German private cars in use.

Scheduled to be in Germany in 2007, the V series locomotives used only 200 of the Leipzig Railway Company (LEG).
V 200 in industrial railways

The M62 was also supplied to industrial lines of the GDR. Initially the plant railway SDAG Wismut received for use on its part of the Deutsche Reichsbahn owned network between Kayna, Raitzhain and Seelingstädt 1972 and 1973 five locomotives, which were classified as V 200 501 to 505.

Subsequently, three machines were delivered to the lignite Combine Geisel for operation in the coal traffic in the Halle / Merseburg, the numbers were V 200506-508.

1976 to 1978 received the bismuth train further ten locomotives that were without regard to the previously supplied through the BKK0 Geiseltal machines numbered V 200506-515. In 1993 the railway was operating at the BKK set Geisel, the V 200 V 200 506 and the 5089, which was acquired in 1996 by the DR, were sold to the railway bismuth. The stakes of the V 200 at the track ended bismuth 1998th

The V 200 of bismuth and train BKK Geisel were not considered working locomotives involved in the renumbering of the DR.

DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
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Offline Timothy  
#52 Posted : 25 October 2012 22:02:55(UTC)
Timothy


Joined: 13/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: France
Good idea to translate the German wikipage. I can take a look at it later. But it seems to need some work. Anyway, once the text is translated, one should generate a new, English wikipage for the V200DR.

Best,

Tim
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Timothy
Offline I_love_Marklin_37538  
#53 Posted : 25 October 2012 23:55:27(UTC)
I_love_Marklin_37538


Joined: 19/09/2008(UTC)
Posts: 951
Location: ,
Can anyone tell me about the Sachsenstolz Steam Locomotive in the DR,I am still hoping M will make the XXHV

UserPostedImage
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Offline Mark5  
#54 Posted : 26 October 2012 02:42:52(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Originally Posted by: Timothy Go to Quoted Post
Good idea to translate the German wikipage. I can take a look at it later. But it seems to need some work. Anyway, once the text is translated, one should generate a new, English wikipage for the V200DR.
Best,
Tim


Great idea, but someone has to find time to do it. I have done edits, but never generated a new page.
You also have to do all the footnoting. The great thing about writing historical fiction rather than being a historian is that you don't need to do footnotes. Having said that, I welcome and encourage anyone to do correct translations of more pages on German and European rail history, for both community and selfish reasons.

- Mark



DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
Offline Timothy  
#55 Posted : 26 October 2012 11:59:36(UTC)
Timothy


Joined: 13/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: France
Originally Posted by: MM-MarkMontreal Go to Quoted Post
The great thing about writing historical fiction rather than being a historian is that you don't need to do footnotes.


:-) Cannot agree more. I propose we start with translating here and later, piece by piece, generate a new wiki page.

Best,

Tim



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Offline Western Pacific  
#56 Posted : 30 October 2012 20:05:13(UTC)
Western Pacific

Sweden   
Joined: 19/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 841
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
Originally Posted by: GlennM Go to Quoted Post



< cut >


Please also see the Berlin to Leipzig express set by Marklin

Berlin to Leipzig Express - Märklin Item 26509

UserPostedImage

and the addition coach set - Märklin Item 43208

UserPostedImage

More pics appear under this thread Show us your locomotive purchase - 2012 (see page 34)

BR

Glenn



Hi Glenn,

Your photos inspired me, so I had a look at ebay.de on Friday (October 26th) and found a set 43208 and a set 26509. The 43208 was mailed on Saturday and I got it yesterday (Monday) and today I got a notification from ebay stating that the 26509 has been shipped.

The 43208 was sent from Erding, near Munich, actually even closer to Munich airport than to the city and it must have been sent by air as Registered mail. The 26509 will most likely take longer since the seller has indicated DHL package, which usually means surface, and it is sent from Erftstadt, near Cologne. With some luck I'll se it on Friday, but more likely early next week. (To reach me this week, the package needs to get to Hamburg on Wednesday and reach Malmö in southern Sweden not later than Thursday and finally arrive in the Stockholm area at the latest very early Friday morning).

EDIT: The 26509 arrived today (Wednesday). It turned out that it was shipped Monday, handled by DHL in Cologne at 19h47, reached Hamburg at 04H25 on Tuesday and reached Malmö at 13h27 on Tuesday. Arrived in the Stockholm area at 06h38 today (with a comment 'delayed') and came to my home town at 08h11, put in a delivery van at 08h46 and arrived at my home just before lunch at 11h31.

This is clearly one of the faster surface deliveries of eBay Märklin purchases from Germay that I've experienced.


Per

Edited by user 31 October 2012 12:39:23(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline Frankenbahner  
#57 Posted : 01 November 2012 16:45:41(UTC)
Frankenbahner


Joined: 15/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 625
Location: Nuremberg, Bavaria
Märklin hasn't released a large number of DR stuff since reunification. However, I don't think it's just because they don't want to. There just aren't enough customers for AC products in Eastern Germany. This area is dominated by two-rail DC and TT gauge. Sure, Märklin could release Trix DC versions - but European two-rail DC modellers will nevertheless prefer the "classic" DC brands like Roco.

Märklin's main market is located in Western Germany (except Bavaria, which is "two-rail DC land"), Switzerland and Benelux. New tooling for a nice SBB loco will turn out as more profitable for Märklin, as new tooling for any DR loco. So, I don't think you should expect any further new tooling of Eastern German stuff from Märklin.

If Märklin will release any new DR stuff, this could be:

- DR versions of previous DRG rolling stock, also used by the DB in postwar Western Germany
- DR rolling stock transferred to Western Germany after reunification

So, if you look for more Eastern German trains, you have to take a look to Eastern German firms like Piko, or Tillig. And Western German manufacturer Brawa has a nice range of DR diesels and electrics for AC. Older Eastern German stuff is often available on swap markets and on Ebay for very good prices.

Regards,
Florian
H0 3-rail AC with DCC, MM and mfx, 2-rail DC streetcars, and N gauge
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Offline RayF  
#58 Posted : 01 November 2012 19:15:55(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I got this DR Br118 made by Piko for AC.

UserPostedImage
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
Offline Mark5  
#59 Posted : 02 November 2012 19:38:35(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I got this DR Br118 made by Piko for AC.

[img....]

Beautiful Ray. Really like that model... I have looking at a lot of DR stuff lately, thanks to everyone's great tips and links.
What will she pull Ray?

- Mark

DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
Offline Mark5  
#60 Posted : 02 November 2012 19:41:30(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Originally Posted by: Western Pacific Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GlennM Go to Quoted Post


Please also see the Berlin to Leipzig express set by Marklin

Berlin to Leipzig Express - Märklin Item 26509

and the addition coach set - Märklin Item 43208

More pics appear under this thread Show us your locomotive purchase - 2012 (see page 34)

BR

Glenn



Hi Glenn,

Your photos inspired me, so I had a look at ebay.de on Friday (October 26th) and found a set 43208 and a set 26509. The 43208 was mailed on Saturday and I got it yesterday (Monday) and today I got a notification from ebay stating that the 26509 has been shipped.

The 43208 was sent from Erding, near Munich, actually even closer to Munich airport than to the city and it must have been sent by air as Registered mail. The 26509 will most likely take longer since the seller has indicated DHL package, which usually means surface, and it is sent from Erftstadt, near Cologne. With some luck I'll se it on Friday, but more likely early next week. (To reach me this week, the package needs to get to Hamburg on Wednesday and reach Malmö in southern Sweden not later than Thursday and finally arrive in the Stockholm area at the latest very early Friday morning).

EDIT: The 26509 arrived today (Wednesday). It turned out that it was shipped Monday, handled by DHL in Cologne at 19h47, reached Hamburg at 04H25 on Tuesday and reached Malmö at 13h27 on Tuesday. Arrived in the Stockholm area at 06h38 today (with a comment 'delayed') and came to my home town at 08h11, put in a delivery van at 08h46 and arrived at my home just before lunch at 11h31.

This is clearly one of the faster surface deliveries of eBay Märklin purchases from Germay that I've experienced.


Per


That's a beautiful set on my wish list!
Nice work Per. Let me know how she runs.... would love to see a video of it on your set on its way to Leipzig... in what year?

Thanks for sharing,
Mark


DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
Offline RayF  
#61 Posted : 02 November 2012 22:49:58(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: MM-MarkMontreal Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I got this DR Br118 made by Piko for AC.

[img....]

Beautiful Ray. Really like that model... I have looking at a lot of DR stuff lately, thanks to everyone's great tips and links.
What will she pull Ray?

- Mark



Hi Mark,

I don't have any DR coaches, so I thought of maybe getting the Piko double decker coaches to make up this train:

UserPostedImage
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
Offline Mark5  
#62 Posted : 02 November 2012 23:00:47(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MM-MarkMontreal Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I got this DR Br118 made by Piko for AC.

[img....]

Beautiful Ray. Really like that model... I have looking at a lot of DR stuff lately, thanks to everyone's great tips and links.
What will she pull Ray?

- Mark



Hi Mark,

I don't have any DR coaches, so I thought of maybe getting the Piko double decker coaches to make up this train:

[img......img]



Ray,
I'd love to see that in action. Let me know if you do make that work for you.
Any idea when that photo was taken?
- Mark



DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
Offline RayF  
#63 Posted : 03 November 2012 00:41:22(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: MM-MarkMontreal Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MM-MarkMontreal Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I got this DR Br118 made by Piko for AC.

[img....]

Beautiful Ray. Really like that model... I have looking at a lot of DR stuff lately, thanks to everyone's great tips and links.
What will she pull Ray?

- Mark



Hi Mark,

I don't have any DR coaches, so I thought of maybe getting the Piko double decker coaches to make up this train:

[img......img]



Ray,
I'd love to see that in action. Let me know if you do make that work for you.
Any idea when that photo was taken?
- Mark





Hi Mark,

I found the photo on Bahnbilder.de. It was taken in Brandenburg on 24 April 1995
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline GlennM  
#64 Posted : 03 November 2012 02:20:33(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Originally Posted by: Western Pacific Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GlennM Go to Quoted Post



< cut >


Please also see the Berlin to Leipzig express set by Marklin

Berlin to Leipzig Express - Märklin Item 26509

UserPostedImage

and the addition coach set - Märklin Item 43208

UserPostedImage

More pics appear under this thread Show us your locomotive purchase - 2012 (see page 34)

BR

Glenn



Hi Glenn,

Your photos inspired me, so I had a look at ebay.de on Friday (October 26th) and found a set 43208 and a set 26509. The 43208 was mailed on Saturday and I got it yesterday (Monday) and today I got a notification from ebay stating that the 26509 has been shipped.

The 43208 was sent from Erding, near Munich, actually even closer to Munich airport than to the city and it must have been sent by air as Registered mail. The 26509 will most likely take longer since the seller has indicated DHL package, which usually means surface, and it is sent from Erftstadt, near Cologne. With some luck I'll se it on Friday, but more likely early next week. (To reach me this week, the package needs to get to Hamburg on Wednesday and reach Malmö in southern Sweden not later than Thursday and finally arrive in the Stockholm area at the latest very early Friday morning).

EDIT: The 26509 arrived today (Wednesday). It turned out that it was shipped Monday, handled by DHL in Cologne at 19h47, reached Hamburg at 04H25 on Tuesday and reached Malmö at 13h27 on Tuesday. Arrived in the Stockholm area at 06h38 today (with a comment 'delayed') and came to my home town at 08h11, put in a delivery van at 08h46 and arrived at my home just before lunch at 11h31.

This is clearly one of the faster surface deliveries of eBay Märklin purchases from Germay that I've experienced.


Per



Per,

I am so glad I was able to inspire you. I first came across the set in an old catalogue whilst looking for something else and though that would look nice on my (as yet unbuilt BigGrin) layout.

I must say that reading through the threads in this Forum has introduced me to many items that I was unaware of, and in some cases I have gone on to buy them, and I think this is one of the great aspects to this great diverse Forum.

I hope you enjoy your set, and maybe post a few pics of it running around your layout.

Best Wishes

Glenn
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
Offline GlennM  
#65 Posted : 03 November 2012 02:23:00(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I got this DR Br118 made by Piko for AC.

UserPostedImage


Ray,

Don't Marklin make a set with a similar loco to this and some carriages?

BR

Glenn
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
Offline GlennM  
#66 Posted : 03 November 2012 02:27:05(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MM-MarkMontreal Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I got this DR Br118 made by Piko for AC.

[img....]

Beautiful Ray. Really like that model... I have looking at a lot of DR stuff lately, thanks to everyone's great tips and links.
What will she pull Ray?

- Mark



Hi Mark,

I don't have any DR coaches, so I thought of maybe getting the Piko double decker coaches to make up this train:

UserPostedImage


Ray and Mark,

Trix also make these double decker coaches but not in this livery, they are West German.

Here are a couple of photos of mine;

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

BR

Glenn

Don't look back, your not heading that way.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by GlennM
Offline H0  
#67 Posted : 03 November 2012 09:44:03(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Glenn!
Originally Posted by: GlennM Go to Quoted Post
Trix also make these double decker coaches but not in this livery, they are West German.
Yes, they are West German. And since both types of double stock coaches are post-war, they are completely different.
The West German type was experimental in era III and only six have been made (three short ones, three long ones; the Trix coaches (the long ones) will come in a Märklin version 43597 (it's 2011 Summer New Item and should be delivered any year soon), 303 mm length, AFAIK the longest Märklin H0 coaches ever).

East Germany made many double stock coaches in eras III and IV. Since era V double stock coaches (mostly newly built) are used all over Germany.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline RayF  
#68 Posted : 03 November 2012 09:59:22(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: GlennM Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I got this DR Br118 made by Piko for AC.

UserPostedImage


Ray,

Don't Marklin make a set with a similar loco to this and some carriages?

BR

Glenn


Hi Glenn,

As far as I'm aware Marklin have never made this loco.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline RayF  
#69 Posted : 03 November 2012 12:53:02(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I was looking at the Piko DR coaches, and I've noticed that the double decker coaches are 308mm long! I'd better think again, as these will hit all the catenary masts on my R1 curves.

http://www.piko.de/produ...;child_id=0&id=57622

Maybe I'll go for the "Modernisation" coaches: They are only 244mm long, and I quite like the green and cream colour!

http://www.piko.de/produ...;child_id=3&id=53042

UserPostedImage
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by RayF
Offline GlennM  
#70 Posted : 03 November 2012 17:21:08(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Glenn!
Originally Posted by: GlennM Go to Quoted Post
Trix also make these double decker coaches but not in this livery, they are West German.
Yes, they are West German. And since both types of double stock coaches are post-war, they are completely different.
The West German type was experimental in era III and only six have been made (three short ones, three long ones; the Trix coaches (the long ones) will come in a Märklin version 43597 (it's 2011 Summer New Item and should be delivered any year soon), 303 mm length, AFAIK the longest Märklin H0 coaches ever).

East Germany made many double stock coaches in eras III and IV. Since era V double stock coaches (mostly newly built) are used all over Germany.



Thanks Tom.

I have seen some coaches that are very similar on some old pre-war movie film, showing trains pulling into stations ???

Thanks for the information, as I was wondering what loco I should be using to pull them.

BR

Glenn
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
Offline GlennM  
#71 Posted : 03 November 2012 17:29:29(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,877
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GlennM Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I got this DR Br118 made by Piko for AC.

UserPostedImage


Ray,

Don't Marklin make a set with a similar loco to this and some carriages?

BR

Glenn


Hi Glenn,

As far as I'm aware Marklin have never made this loco.


Ray

My apologies it was this set I had in mind Link

BR

Glenn
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
Offline RayF  
#72 Posted : 03 November 2012 18:53:36(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi Glenn,

Yes, a very different loco, but similar at first glance.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Mark5  
#73 Posted : 04 November 2012 05:11:28(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Originally Posted by: GlennM Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MM-MarkMontreal Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I got this DR Br118 made by Piko for AC.

[img....]

Beautiful Ray. Really like that model... I have looking at a lot of DR stuff lately, thanks to everyone's great tips and links.
What will she pull Ray?

- Mark



Hi Mark,

I don't have any DR coaches, so I thought of maybe getting the Piko double decker coaches to make up this train:

[img.....img]


Ray and Mark,

Trix also make these double decker coaches but not in this livery, they are West German.

Here are a couple of photos of mine;

UserPostedImage

[img....img]

BR

Glenn



Ray and Glenn,

They are really gorgeous and more in line with "Marklin scale" (1:90) it seems.

I am wondering how much effort is would be to remove the decals and put appropriate DR decals, if one could find them somewhere
.... or do they you think they deviate too much from the prototype?

- Mark
DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
Offline H0  
#74 Posted : 04 November 2012 08:44:11(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Mark!
Originally Posted by: MM-MarkMontreal Go to Quoted Post
.... or do they you think they deviate too much from the prototype?
IMHO they are clearly different (doors in the middle of the coach are unusual for DR double stock coaches).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Western Pacific  
#75 Posted : 04 November 2012 15:18:28(UTC)
Western Pacific

Sweden   
Joined: 19/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 841
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
Originally Posted by: GlennM Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Western Pacific Go to Quoted Post



< cut >


Hi Glenn,

Your photos inspired me, so I had a look at ebay.de on Friday (October 26th) and found a set 43208 and a set 26509. The 43208 was mailed on Saturday and I got it yesterday (Monday) and today I got a notification from ebay stating that the 26509 has been shipped.

< cut >

Per



Per,

I am so glad I was able to inspire you. I first came across the set in an old catalogue whilst looking for something else and though that would look nice on my (as yet unbuilt BigGrin) layout.

I must say that reading through the threads in this Forum has introduced me to many items that I was unaware of, and in some cases I have gone on to buy them, and I think this is one of the great aspects to this great diverse Forum.

I hope you enjoy your set, and maybe post a few pics of it running around your layout.

Best Wishes

Glenn



Hi Glenn,

My current layout is just a test set-up - no landscape - and on top of that, it is partly covered to protect it from paint drops from renovation work being done close to it. I am painting doors and there are two more to be done before all fifteen in my house are done.
Why protect a layout without landscape?
The answer is simple; the C-track that I am using will be re-used on my "proper layout" in the future and I've learned from experience that if paint would drip, then it wouldn't fall on the plywood, but instead on the track; all in line with "Murphy's law". Cursing

However I managed to make a test run of the E18 locomotive 2 metres in one direction and then 2 metres back on the remote side of this test layout. If things go well, then there might be a chance that I can remove the protective covers and take some pictures at Christmas or New Year.

Per


Offline Western Pacific  
#76 Posted : 04 November 2012 16:00:54(UTC)
Western Pacific

Sweden   
Joined: 19/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 841
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
Mark,

Have you taken a look at PIKO DR bi-level trains?

I've tried to find an Internet page that describe it in English, but this in German may perhaps do.

This articulated train is listed in PIKO America's price list.

An alternative could perhaps be Rivarossi's DR era IV bi-level train. They also have two coach units era IV livery and era III. There is also a version of the four coach train in era IV livery of the Rostocker S-Bahn.


Per


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Offline Frankenbahner  
#77 Posted : 07 November 2012 13:54:09(UTC)
Frankenbahner


Joined: 15/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 625
Location: Nuremberg, Bavaria
A model of the articulated bi-level cars now made by Rivarossi, was once made by an Eastern German manufacturer called Schicht. Schicht released these nicely detailed cars somewhere in the mid-1960s, when Märklin still presented tin-plate coaches which had no interior furnishings as new tooling.

Eventually, Schicht has been nationalized in the early 1970s (like many other small and middle-sized private firms in Eastern Germany in those days) and became part of a state-owned company called Prefo. The bi-level cars came in Prefo boxes then, and eventually in Piko boxes. After reunification, the different departments of Prefo have been re-privatized, and the toolings for the bi-level cars came to a new firm called Sachsenmodelle.

Sachsenmodelle continued these cars until the mid-1990s.

These Schicht/Prefo/Piko/Sachsenmodelle models of the articulated bi-level cars can still be found on swap markets and on Ebay. Okay, they are not as nicely detailed as the ones from Rivarossi. But nevertheless they still can be considered as wll-done models. If you regard the price, they are in fact a good alternative to the high-priced Rivarossi trains.

The only disadvantage: the Eastern German manufacturer only made the version which didn't have a cab, so push-and-pull operation is not possible (the current Rivarossi models do have a cab).

Regards,
Florian
H0 3-rail AC with DCC, MM and mfx, 2-rail DC streetcars, and N gauge
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Offline NS1200  
#78 Posted : 14 November 2012 21:12:35(UTC)
NS1200

Netherlands   
Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 3,443
Mark,

This is an award winning German movie called Goodbye Lenin,with English subtitles.
It tells the story of a son who does not dare to tell his mother that the wall between the DDR where they live and the West has been opened up all of a sudden,he fears that her weak heart will not be able to cope with the shock.
As such he pretents the DDR is still there,even including an imitation of a DDR TV news broadcast.
He finds it increasingly difficult to keep up the facades.
Interesting movie for your project perhaps.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJb4efZcFUM

Cheers,
Paul.
Have more than you show,speak less than you know (Shakespeare).
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Offline Roman  
#79 Posted : 15 November 2012 06:12:10(UTC)
Roman

United States   
Joined: 19/09/2002(UTC)
Posts: 869
Hello all,
When searching for the DDR bi-level coaches, I would suggest an Ebay search for Schicht Doppelstockwagen. The two double car sets have either the DR marked end cars or the Deutsche Reichsbahn marked intermediate cars for a longer consist. Remember to check for diaphragms included between the cars. They aren't perfect for some but you have some real DDR relics to play with. I have the end cars displayed with a 3443.
Roman

Schicht Doppelstockwagen Pics
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Offline RetroTrains  
#80 Posted : 20 November 2012 04:14:33(UTC)
RetroTrains


Joined: 28/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: MOUNT BARKER, South Australia 5251
Hi guys, Thanks for all the info.
I have 2 rakes of DR coaches all of which are made by Schicht (I think).
They are excellent quality - the blue and cream ones having detailed interiors - and are also fitted with Marklin type axle sets made by ROCO (04464S).
The other set have suffered some cosmetic damage sadly, but they are very impressive coaches.
My question is: Can anyone suggest which Marklin loks would be most appropriate to haul these trains - ignoring any DB logos?
I have a collection which includes most Marklin Steam and Diesel Loks prior to 1986 or so.
I thought maybe the 03 - and I think I saw a 44 hauling some passenger coaches in one of the vids?
Was the V200 used for express trains in the DR? If so what colour(s) were they?
Also interested in the CSD logo on one coach if someone can help.
RetroTrains attached the following image(s):
P1120020.JPG
P1120021.JPG
P1120022.JPG
P1120019.JPG
RetroTrains, Mount Barker, Aust
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Offline Mark5  
#81 Posted : 23 November 2012 22:36:34(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Originally Posted by: RetroTrains Go to Quoted Post
Hi guys, Thanks for all the info.
I have 2 rakes of DR coaches all of which are made by Schicht (I think).
They are excellent quality - the blue and cream ones having detailed interiors - and are also fitted with Marklin type axle sets made by ROCO (04464S).
The other set have suffered some cosmetic damage sadly, but they are very impressive coaches.
[...?...]


Hello Retro,
Those are beautiful coaches. Thanks for sharing them and this all continues to inspire me with the project and research.
Do you know what years those coaches were used?

Unfortunately I have lots to learn yet and can't answer the question on the V200 with authority, but I think the DR version of the V200 was quite different in appearance. I seem to remember a link somewhere and will post if I find it again.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Thank you,
Mark
DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
Offline mike c  
#82 Posted : 24 November 2012 00:50:50(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
Here is the DR V200 (Taigatrommel). After reunification, it was renumbered Class 120: http://www.railfaneurope.../historic/DR120/pix.html

The DB V 200 is here:
http://www.railfaneurope...toric/DB_V200_0/pix.html
http://www.railfaneurope...toric/DB_V200_1/pix.html

This page lists the changes in class assignation: http://www.railfaneurope...diesel/historic/pix.html

For more info on coaches, check here: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/UIC-Y-Wagen_(DR)

or here: http://www.amazon.ca/Int...sezugwagen/dp/3882557206

Mike C
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Offline Mark5  
#83 Posted : 16 December 2012 11:46:22(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Hello all,

I'm still looking for more actual histories of railway companies and people who worked for those companies in East and West Germany during Era III.

Anyone have anymore ideas? Would also like something comprehensive, but guessing that is unlikely to find in English.

- Mark
DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
Offline Mark5  
#84 Posted : 05 February 2013 09:59:44(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Still cross-referencing all the great info in this thread.
If anyone has more to add, I would love to hear it.

Thanks All once again for all the useful info!
Mark
DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
Offline Andrey  
#85 Posted : 05 February 2013 11:10:15(UTC)
Andrey

Russian Federation   
Joined: 03/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 641
Location: Moscow
Originally Posted by: Timothy Go to Quoted Post

The BR 120 DR has been called Taigatrommel (Taiga drum) because it was delivered from Russia without exhaust silencer. In the vast and less populated landscape of Russia, you do not really need that. That's why some love these locos because of their special sound. However, people living close to shunting yards or near railway lines started to complain and the DR started to order the locos with a silencer. The first (I think) 200 locos got a silencer later.


178 locos were delivered without silencers, they got silencers later. Those were silencers designed in GDR, later East German design silencers were introduced on other export versions of the M 62. Totally 378 engines were delivered for DR, 18 - for GDR industry.

Early engines, intended for the Soviet railways, were produced without silencers even after East German silencers became available. Some of them are still in use, run not only in the less populated landscapes, but also in the European part of the country, and they sound like hell! Scared

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Offline Mark5  
#86 Posted : 06 February 2013 20:43:48(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Thanks Andrey,

I'd love to hear that! Seen any youtube videos that capture the sound?

Do you know in what year the locos without silencers (mufflers) were delivered?

It would be fabulous if someone could program a sound decoder to reproduce the original sound.

- Mark

Originally Posted by: Andrey Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Timothy Go to Quoted Post

The BR 120 DR has been called Taigatrommel (Taiga drum) because it was delivered from Russia without exhaust silencer. In the vast and less populated landscape of Russia, you do not really need that. That's why some love these locos because of their special sound. However, people living close to shunting yards or near railway lines started to complain and the DR started to order the locos with a silencer. The first (I think) 200 locos got a silencer later.


178 locos were delivered without silencers, they got silencers later. Those were silencers designed in GDR, later East German design silencers were introduced on other export versions of the M 62. Totally 378 engines were delivered for DR, 18 - for GDR industry.

Early engines, intended for the Soviet railways, were produced without silencers even after East German silencers became available. Some of them are still in use, run not only in the less populated landscapes, but also in the European part of the country, and they sound like hell! Scared




DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
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Offline Andrey  
#87 Posted : 06 February 2013 21:45:47(UTC)
Andrey

Russian Federation   
Joined: 03/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 641
Location: Moscow
Hi Mark,

I'm happy that you liked. Smile

M 62s (Taigatrommel) were delivered to DR in 1966-1975. I guess at least locos delivered in 1960s were without mufflers.

Yes, M 62s have very special diesel sound. Didn't find the off-muffler version sounds on video, but I think even standard current version's sound is enough to understand.

DR BR 220 sound:



And also walk around the nice looking DR BR 220:


M 62s are still in active use in Russia:

RZD M 62 in Karelia, pulling neglected passenger trains from nowhere to nowhere...



2 part units 2M 62s nowadays pulling heavy trains even inside Moscow!



Sorry, two last links are OT.

EDIT. Mark, I found what you were looking for.

Here is M 62 without muffler (currently Lithuanian loco):



How to recognize engine equipped with muffler or not?

Loco with muffler has a sort of superstructure on the roof, see the video of the DR BR 220 I attached.

Non-muffler locos have no superstructure, on some pictures 2 exhaust pipes can be visible.

For example, Roco TT model, representing early non-muffler version of the Sowiet railways:


Nowadays Roco produces DR BR 120 in HO with full sound. And it sounds very good! By the way, this is muffler version, see the roof.

Edited by user 07 February 2013 14:54:18(UTC)  | Reason: More info added

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