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Offline Jeremy Palmer  
#1 Posted : 20 August 2012 17:16:07(UTC)
Jeremy Palmer

Barbados   
Joined: 14/04/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,453
Location: St. Michael, Barbados
I like Marklin Beer wagons. I have seen many photos of beer wagons here from Ian, Piet, Ray and many others too numerous to mention.

So I thought I would get a set - see below. But when I compare my set to all the other beer wagons mine do not have brakemen's cabs. So
now I do not know whether my beer wagons are beer wagons. I don't know what to do and I am depressed. Grateful for help,

Jeremy.

Edited by user 25 September 2012 09:23:12(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Jeremy Palmer attached the following image(s):
Swiss brewery.jpg
Jeremy.

1). If at first you don't succeed, bungee jumping mightn't be for you.
2). The early bird may get the worm, but it's the second rat that gets the cheese.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Jeremy Palmer
Offline Ian555  
#2 Posted : 20 August 2012 17:31:36(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 18,733
Location: Scotland
Hi Jeremy,

Take some comfort from the fact, that you are not alone, there are many forum members here, myself included, that need help. Smile

Ian.

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Offline RayF  
#3 Posted : 20 August 2012 17:45:49(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,858
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Don't worry Jeremy, not all beer wagons had brakeman's cabins.

The modern ones, like yours, never had them, as they had continuous braking systems, and some of the older wagons had the cabins removed.

On the other hand, maybe the only remedy for your depression is to order some new wagons with cabins! BigGrin
Ray

Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Jeremy Palmer  
#4 Posted : 20 August 2012 18:07:58(UTC)
Jeremy Palmer

Barbados   
Joined: 14/04/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,453
Location: St. Michael, Barbados
@ Ray and Ian - is this what you mean?? The important part starts at .35 seconds.

Jeremy.

ps. Dusan and Nev seem to be fairly knowledgeable on the matter, are they depressed? j.

Edited by user 20 August 2012 18:15:12(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Jeremy.

1). If at first you don't succeed, bungee jumping mightn't be for you.
2). The early bird may get the worm, but it's the second rat that gets the cheese.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Jeremy Palmer
Offline dodger0325  
#5 Posted : 21 August 2012 01:17:16(UTC)
dodger0325

United States   
Joined: 06/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 93
Location: ft lauderdale
where that 101 cars? lol
Roger
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Online seatrains  
#6 Posted : 21 August 2012 03:08:14(UTC)
seatrains

United States   
Joined: 22/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 542
Location: Seattle, WA
Jeremey,
ThumpUp I like your beer cars...I have only one beer car, but I like to drink beer. In fact, I think I will have a beer and look at ebay and consider getting more beer cars...
Thom
European Train Enthusiast - Pacific Northwest Chapter
4th Division, Pacific Northwest Region, National Model Railroaders Association
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Offline Jeremy Palmer  
#7 Posted : 21 August 2012 03:52:44(UTC)
Jeremy Palmer

Barbados   
Joined: 14/04/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,453
Location: St. Michael, Barbados
Originally Posted by: seatrains Go to Quoted Post
Jeremey,
ThumpUp I like your beer cars...I have only one beer car, but I like to drink beer. In fact, I think I will have a beer and look at ebay and consider getting more beer cars...


Thank you Thom and Dodger,

@ Thom - I think you are on the right trackThumpUp ThumpUp - Keep it up.

Jeremy.


Jeremy.

1). If at first you don't succeed, bungee jumping mightn't be for you.
2). The early bird may get the worm, but it's the second rat that gets the cheese.
Offline NS1200  
#8 Posted : 21 August 2012 05:05:45(UTC)
NS1200


Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,990
Dear Jeremy,

I hate to tell you this but apart from the odd exception none of these socalled beer wagons have ever carried beer in real life.
There is no reason whatsoever to carry beer in refrigerated transport,it is not being done.
The countless versions of the 4415 wagon serve as a medium for sponsoring.
Well known manufacturers are being invited by Maerklin to borrow their name to Maerklin and Maerklin then creates an appropriate version of the 4415.
The only true version of the refrigerated wagon is 4415 in plain white.
About brakemens cabs: this is typical era 1/II feature,it was stopped after WW2.
Era III freight wagons do not have brakemens cabs.

Please do not worry,they are still nice wagons to collect,at afoordable prices!

Paul.
Maerklin:the dream will live on!
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Offline kariosls37  
#9 Posted : 21 August 2012 05:22:17(UTC)
kariosls37

New Zealand   
Joined: 02/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,066
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Brakeman's cabs were only fitted to a small portion of wagons before air brakes were present on every train, and a brakeman would sit in the cab of each wagon so equipped and would apply or release his brake in response from whistle commands from the enginedriver. From memory(so don't quote me on this, I'm probably off) about 1 in 6 wagons on a train had to be equipped with a brake on most trains. For steep grades the minimum number of braked wagons increased, the opposite happened in flat areas.

Most European countries fitted air brakes or "piped" the air to every wagon somewhere during the 1920's and 1930's which allowed all the brakes to be under the direct control of the enginedriver. ("piped" wagons didn't actually have air brakes of their own, but they did have connections so braked wagons further along the train could be connected). Once this happened, the brakeman's cabs became surplus to requirements and were gradually removed if their condition was poor. Many brakeman's cabs lasted a while, because they were rather handy for parking a wagon in a siding.

The real wagons of the set you pictured were built long after brakeman's cabs lost their purpose, and none ever got any. If you want to "elevate" your beer wagon collection you will have to go for an earlier wagon I'm afraid...

Cheers,
Rick
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Offline Angus  
#10 Posted : 21 August 2012 09:40:43(UTC)
Angus

South Africa   
Joined: 27/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 96
Location: Kensington
Originally Posted by: Jeremy Palmer Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: seatrains Go to Quoted Post
Jeremey,
ThumpUp I like your beer cars...I have only one beer car, but I like to drink beer. In fact, I think I will have a beer and look at ebay and consider getting more beer cars...


Thank you Thom and Dodger,

@ Thom - I think you are on the right trackThumpUp ThumpUp - Keep it up.

Jeremy.




Jeremy, don't be too depressed, I have no beer wagons in my small collection (does a Martini branded Lima wagon count?).

And not being a great fan of beer, I can't join Thom either but anyone want to join me for a rum while perusing beer wagons or rather all things Marklin for that matter?
Offline nevw  
#11 Posted : 21 August 2012 09:56:29(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,632
Location: Strathpine QLD
Originally Posted by: Jeremy Palmer Go to Quoted Post
@ Ray and Ian - is this what you mean?? The important part starts at .35 seconds.

Jeremy.

ps. Dusan and Nev seem to be fairly knowledgeable on the matter, are they depressed? j.



AS far as Beer cars go NO I am not depressed.

OGNLOL BigGrin Flapper RollEyes RollEyes
wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now have a new shiny tin Hip that is badly in Need of Repair
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline NZMarklinist  
#12 Posted : 21 August 2012 10:22:35(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Auckland NZ
HI Jeremy, here you go Smile ;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/...&hash=item43a2f5d43f

And he will deduct the Mwst if you ask nicely Wink
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline Ian555  
#13 Posted : 21 August 2012 10:47:30(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 18,733
Location: Scotland
Hi Glen,

Very nice Set.

Ian.


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Offline Jeremy Palmer  
#14 Posted : 21 August 2012 10:58:43(UTC)
Jeremy Palmer

Barbados   
Joined: 14/04/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,453
Location: St. Michael, Barbados
Glenn - you are a splendid fellow and I am not sure how much longer I can beer it.

@Ian - hopefully you still need help?
@Nev - Do beer wagons help SIGNALLaugh LOL depression??

Jeremy.
Jeremy.

1). If at first you don't succeed, bungee jumping mightn't be for you.
2). The early bird may get the worm, but it's the second rat that gets the cheese.
Offline NS1200  
#15 Posted : 21 August 2012 11:05:14(UTC)
NS1200


Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,990
Apart from countless versions of the 4415,Maerklin used other cars for sponsoring as well.
In the book Wertanlage Marklin ISBN 3-8043-0361-7they are called Werbemodelle=advertising models.
The dry ice refrigerated car 4415 (note the dry ice hatch at the top of the stairs) has been used to promote Dutch coffee brand Douwe Egberts,and also for Bison tobacco and Remy Martin Cognac.
Standard tank cars and standard 40ft container cars have been "misused" in similar fashion.
There is nothing wrong with that,nothing is forbidden in our hobby,these cars are nice to collect and rather inexpensive.

The era 1 and era II pre WW2 cars at times have very detailed printing,and spoked wheels as well.

For other sets made out of the 4415 please see for example 84400 4 x Schweppes,84418 various candy,84680 4 x Kulmbacher beer.
For a set of containercars see 84422 4 x International airlines.
I think there must have be many more of these sets over the years.

Happy hunting!

Paul.
Maerklin:the dream will live on!
Offline Jeremy Palmer  
#16 Posted : 21 August 2012 11:08:36(UTC)
Jeremy Palmer

Barbados   
Joined: 14/04/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,453
Location: St. Michael, Barbados
Originally Posted by: NS1200 Go to Quoted Post
Dear Jeremy,

I hate to tell you this but apart from the odd exception none of these socalled beer wagons have ever carried beer in real life.


Paul.


Dear Paul,

My beer wagons with or without brakeman's cabs, didn't carry beerCrying Crying ? Now I am really depressedBigGrin BigGrin.

Jeremy.
Jeremy.

1). If at first you don't succeed, bungee jumping mightn't be for you.
2). The early bird may get the worm, but it's the second rat that gets the cheese.
Offline Jeremy Palmer  
#17 Posted : 21 August 2012 11:17:38(UTC)
Jeremy Palmer

Barbados   
Joined: 14/04/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,453
Location: St. Michael, Barbados
@ Angus - Partridges - 5 X ThumpUp has a plentiful supply of Rum?
Jeremy.

1). If at first you don't succeed, bungee jumping mightn't be for you.
2). The early bird may get the worm, but it's the second rat that gets the cheese.
Offline NS1200  
#18 Posted : 21 August 2012 11:19:47(UTC)
NS1200


Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,990
Herewith an example from my own collection,think it was issued around the millennium change in 2000,was included in a set called Raum und Zeit (Space and time).
The box contained a special CD Rom containing some simple train simulation games,for that time rather advanced.
As can be seen,the construction of the 4415 is very basic,easy and cheap to produce,hence for Maerklin this is perfect for promotion.
NS1200 attached the following image(s):
IMG_2467.jpg
Maerklin:the dream will live on!
Offline rmsailor  
#19 Posted : 21 August 2012 12:03:46(UTC)
rmsailor

Scotland   
Joined: 20/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 332
Location: Kirkcaldy, Fife
Hi Jeremy,

There have probably been more than 5,000 advertising and other special cars produced since they first started to be produced around 1979. Kolls Special claims more than 4,000 and probably lists about 4,500 but it should be remembered that there are numerous cars that have never appeared in Kolls because examples were never been sent to them. It would probably be safe to say that a majority of the total are of the 4415 type and also a majority are beer wagons. A bit vague but I do not intend to try and do an exact count. It would also be safe to assume that most of them are fantasy items. Trying to collect the lot would appear to be a good way to get yourself really depressed as well as very poor and out of house room.
You will also find numerous examples listed on ebay based on Roco production. If you are looking for examples based on real prototypes, wagons listed in the main catalogues of Roco and Liliput are probably fairly safe.

A photo gallery of prototype beer wagons can be found on www.spurn-bierwagen.de but it should be noted that it includes cars that have been painted up as advertising items by the brewing companies and are or have not been in revenue service. Thought, if an imaginary livery is applied to a real car, what does that make a model of one.

Bob M.
Offline RayF  
#20 Posted : 21 August 2012 12:18:27(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,858
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I remember being very disappointed when I first read, some years ago, that the Tank wagons we see in those bright colours were mostly pure fantasy. Shell, BP, Avia, Esso, Aral, etc, generally transport their liquids in grey or silver coloured tank cars belonging to leasing firms.

However, as has been said for the beer wagons, you can run whatever you like on your railway, and they really do look colourful and add interest to a layout.

I like to run the wagons labelled for sweets and chocolates, alongside my beer wagons. So far I have the Milka, Mars and Haribo wagons, and this year I also got the Bionade wagon.
Ray

Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline FMS  
#21 Posted : 21 August 2012 12:27:08(UTC)
FMS


Joined: 01/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 832
Location: PT
Jeremy,

No stress! Your set is very nice.
If you need beer wagons with brakeman's cab, go for it, look also among some other brands...why not, right!

Highlights:

Enlarge your collection of beer wagons
Get what you want
Be happy
Fight that depression
Regards
FMS
Offline NS1200  
#22 Posted : 21 August 2012 19:10:43(UTC)
NS1200


Joined: 10/08/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,990
Another one which never carried beer in real life.
Issued for the Dutch Maerklin Club.

The typecode for this passive refrigerated car in real life was ICHQS-U 377,but it is very hard to find relevant photographs.
NS1200 attached the following image(s):
IMG_2468.jpg
Maerklin:the dream will live on!
Offline Ian555  
#23 Posted : 21 August 2012 19:17:07(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 18,733
Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: Jeremy Palmer Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NS1200 Go to Quoted Post
Dear Jeremy,

I hate to tell you this but apart from the odd exception none of these socalled beer wagons have ever carried beer in real life.


Paul.


Dear Paul,

My beer wagons with or without brakeman's cabs, didn't carry beerCrying Crying ? Now I am really depressedBigGrin BigGrin.

Jeremy.



Hi Jeremy,

Maybe a few Banana vans would help, at least you know where you are with them.....LOL

Ian and B1.
Offline Yumgui  
#24 Posted : 21 August 2012 19:25:20(UTC)
Yumgui

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,644
Location: Paris, France
Jeremy,

Originally Posted by: kariosls37 Go to Quoted Post
... and a brakeman would sit in the cab of each wagon so equipped and would apply or release his brake in response from whistle commands from the enginedriver.


From what I've heard, these brakemen usually froze their b*lls off (at least in cold countries) and therefore drank large quantities of beer if not far harsher liquids to keep warm ...

Problem was that they got so trashed that they ended up not braking at all LOL ... I believe this, in addition to technical reasons, was the reason they did away with those cabs ^^ ThumpUp

Yum Cool

If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out !
Working on : http://www.arep.fr/en/#/welcome
Inspired by : http://www.nakedmarklin.com/ ... I am not alone in this universe, phew.
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Offline petestra  
#25 Posted : 21 August 2012 20:34:07(UTC)
petestra

United States   
Joined: 26/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 4,240
Location: washington,dc
Originally Posted by: Ian555 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Jeremy Palmer Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NS1200 Go to Quoted Post
Dear Jeremy,

I hate to tell you this but apart from the odd exception none of these socalled beer wagons have ever carried beer in real life.


Paul.


Dear Paul,

My beer wagons with or without brakeman's cabs, didn't carry beerCrying Crying ? Now I am really depressedBigGrin BigGrin.

Jeremy.



Hi Jeremy,

Maybe a few Banana vans would help, at least you know where you are with them.....LOL

Ian and B1.





Yeah,Ian. But not if someone put banana skins onto the rails! YIKES! Scared Peter
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Offline cookee_nz  
#26 Posted : 21 August 2012 21:10:19(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,992
Location: Wellington
Originally Posted by: Ian555 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Jeremy Palmer Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NS1200 Go to Quoted Post
Dear Jeremy,

I hate to tell you this but apart from the odd exception none of these socalled beer wagons have ever carried beer in real life.


Paul.


Dear Paul,

My beer wagons with or without brakeman's cabs, didn't carry beerCrying Crying ? Now I am really depressedBigGrin BigGrin.

Jeremy.



Hi Jeremy,

Maybe a few Banana vans would help, at least you know where you are with them.....LOL

Ian and B1.


Actually, this raises a whole new topic in itself.

How many of the advertising or product wagons actually regularly carried what they depicted?

Beer
Wine
Bananas
Oil
Confectionary
... there must be a heap of others

But if you enjoy 'collecting to a theme', you can have a lot of fun acquiring them all (and an empty wallet)

Cheers

Cookee
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline river6109  
#27 Posted : 22 August 2012 00:55:03(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 10,777
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
My beerwagons are permanently parked at the brewery since they've started up a restaurant, there is never enough beer produced to have the beer transported to anywhere else, I hope this solves the depression cycle.

John
http://www.youtube.com/river6109
http://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Angus  
#28 Posted : 22 August 2012 10:46:44(UTC)
Angus

South Africa   
Joined: 27/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 96
Location: Kensington
Originally Posted by: Jeremy Palmer Go to Quoted Post
@ Angus - Partridges - 5 X ThumpUp has a plentiful supply of Rum?


I am due for a business trip to Trinidad early next year, maybe a plan can be made...

Cookee - I am with you on the theme collecting thing, HO railway items is my themeThumpUp Those guys, Bank Balance and his scary cousin Overdraft, don't always support my theme though.
Offline Jeremy Palmer  
#29 Posted : 24 September 2012 11:29:25(UTC)
Jeremy Palmer

Barbados   
Joined: 14/04/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,453
Location: St. Michael, Barbados
I am not depressed any moreThumpUp ThumpUp ....but now I need a nice Era 1 steamerScared Scared LOL LOL
Jeremy Palmer attached the following image(s):
45251.jpg
Jeremy.

1). If at first you don't succeed, bungee jumping mightn't be for you.
2). The early bird may get the worm, but it's the second rat that gets the cheese.
Offline Ian555  
#30 Posted : 24 September 2012 11:53:40(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 18,733
Location: Scotland
Hi Jeremy,

That will help, very nice Set....it's in my watch list.Smile

What about Loco 37977. Wink

Ian.

Offline Jeremy Palmer  
#31 Posted : 25 September 2012 09:21:31(UTC)
Jeremy Palmer

Barbados   
Joined: 14/04/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,453
Location: St. Michael, Barbados
Hi Ian - That is a nice steamer, thanks for tip.

Et al., here is piccy from net, courtesy Frits and Alberto - thanks gents.
Jeremy Palmer attached the following image(s):
M37977.jpg
Jeremy.

1). If at first you don't succeed, bungee jumping mightn't be for you.
2). The early bird may get the worm, but it's the second rat that gets the cheese.
Offline Ian555  
#32 Posted : 25 September 2012 10:06:16(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 18,733
Location: Scotland
Hi Jeremy,

Very nice Loco. ThumpUp

Ian.

Offline Jeremy Palmer  
#33 Posted : 25 September 2012 23:12:52(UTC)
Jeremy Palmer

Barbados   
Joined: 14/04/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,453
Location: St. Michael, Barbados
ta muchly Ian,

Set 45251 now fortified by set 45250, now I have modern and old beer wagons.

Thanks for the support guysThumpUp ThumpUp , you were all very helpfulBigGrin LOL Blink
Jeremy Palmer attached the following image(s):
45250.jpg
Jeremy.

1). If at first you don't succeed, bungee jumping mightn't be for you.
2). The early bird may get the worm, but it's the second rat that gets the cheese.
Offline Ian555  
#34 Posted : 26 September 2012 05:48:56(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 18,733
Location: Scotland
Hi Jeremy,

Glad we could help....LOL

Very nice wagons. ThumpUp

Ian.

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