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Offline LMS800  
#1 Posted : 05 May 2012 17:41:09(UTC)
LMS800

Germany   
Joined: 02/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 135
I dream comes true


For years I looked at catalog 1939 at this very impressive – therefore beloved - picture of a very great layout – made for the LEIPZIG TOY FAIR ( 5 th – 10 th March 1939 )

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I dreamt of building this layout

Finally I saw a picture – showing the full display.

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and I found the track plan

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I figured out the number of all necessary items required ( eg 43 lamps 448…) and started to collect ( buy) them.
In march 2012 I started the project 800/ 220, the biggest pre-war layout ever built!

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Tracks are layed, buildings and cranes in place, now my first light check
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Today I finished work with this display – please see the result:


new pics will be inserted tomorrow
here are new pics without the discussed flag:
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This is my final layout.I keep them all in the attic of my house.
Now you know my attitude to Märklin gauge 00
and this is the end of my introduction to the forum,
for the future I hope for a good cooperation and exchange of knowledge.

Regards
Wolf

Edited by user 05 May 2012 20:23:48(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 7 users liked this useful post by LMS800
Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#2 Posted : 05 May 2012 17:53:11(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,402
Looks really great, Wolf!

The lights must require their own transformer there are so many!

Paul

PS. The middle bruniert SK is from 1947, correct?
Offline H0  
#3 Posted : 05 May 2012 17:59:49(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 9,190
Hi, Wolf,

It looks as if the Hakenkreuz flags are authentic - but I wouldn't show them if it was my layout. IANAL, but I think it conflicts with applicable German laws.

Otherwise it looks like an excellent reproduction of the trade fair layout.
Regards
Tom
---
Happy customer of Roco, Piko, Fleischmann, ESU, Brawa, Liliput, Rivarossi, Lima, ... - and will happily continue to buy locos that run well out of the box. I'm also happy with 95% of my Märklin items, but will avoid a few cost-optimized items made 2011 or later.
Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#4 Posted : 05 May 2012 18:06:32(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,402
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Wolf,

It looks as if the Hakenkreuz flags are authentic - but I wouldn't show them if it was my layout. IANAL, but I think it conflicts with applicable German laws.

Otherwise it looks like an excellent reproduction of the trade fair layout.


I think it depends on the location of the server (which is in Sweden) so Wolf does not have to worry here in this forum (that is why we are allowed to post catalog images, too). I can't speak about the originality of the flags, but I will say the flag stands are different.

Best regards,

Paul

Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 05 May 2012 18:22:37(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 9,190
Originally Posted by: CCS800KrokHunter3 Go to Quoted Post
I think it depends on the location of the server (which is in Sweden) so Wolf does not have to worry here in this forum (that is why we are allowed to post catalog images, too).
If Wolf lives in Germany (as his profile indicates), then he should consider this.

Sweden is not China. Are you sure it's legal to post catalogue images?
German copyright laws allow this to some extent, so if Sweden's laws are similar it may not always be illegal. But it may not always be legal.
Regards
Tom
---
Happy customer of Roco, Piko, Fleischmann, ESU, Brawa, Liliput, Rivarossi, Lima, ... - and will happily continue to buy locos that run well out of the box. I'm also happy with 95% of my Märklin items, but will avoid a few cost-optimized items made 2011 or later.
Offline Western Pacific  
#6 Posted : 05 May 2012 18:34:28(UTC)
Western Pacific

Sweden   
Joined: 19/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 770
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Wolf,

It looks as if the Hakenkreuz flags are authentic - but I wouldn't show them if it was my layout. IANAL, but I think it conflicts with applicable German laws.

Otherwise it looks like an excellent reproduction of the trade fair layout.


From what I've seen on Wikipedia, German version, the swastika is reversed on the layout flag compared to that of NSDAP and the Third Reich.

Wikipedia about the Third Reich
Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#7 Posted : 05 May 2012 19:06:05(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,402
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: CCS800KrokHunter3 Go to Quoted Post
I think it depends on the location of the server (which is in Sweden) so Wolf does not have to worry here in this forum (that is why we are allowed to post catalog images, too).
If Wolf lives in Germany (as his profile indicates), then he should consider this.

Sweden is not China. Are you sure it's legal to post catalogue images?
German copyright laws allow this to some extent, so if Sweden's laws are similar it may not always be illegal. But it may not always be legal.


I'm not exactly sure how those laws work, this was just something I heard from a forum administrator that was dealing with this problem. I know some German forums had problems with it while others outside of Germany did not.

@Per -- you're correct the symbol is inverted and the original 406 flags are not like that. Perhaps it is a safety measure put in by the creator to show the flags are not original.

Best regards,

Paul
Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 05 May 2012 19:17:06(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 9,190
Originally Posted by: Western Pacific Go to Quoted Post
From what I've seen on Wikipedia, German version, the swastika is reversed on the layout flag compared to that of NSDAP and the Third Reich.
Yes, but it's typical for flags that one side shows the image reversed.

See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/...afgesetzbuch_section_86a
In the German version they explicitly say that reversed Hakenkreuze are also illegal since 1994.

Museums may use Hakenkreuze. Historic movies may use Hakenkreuze. I think that private layouts may not use them even if they are exact reproductions of historic layouts.
Regards
Tom
---
Happy customer of Roco, Piko, Fleischmann, ESU, Brawa, Liliput, Rivarossi, Lima, ... - and will happily continue to buy locos that run well out of the box. I'm also happy with 95% of my Märklin items, but will avoid a few cost-optimized items made 2011 or later.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline 20-VOLT-AC  
#9 Posted : 05 May 2012 19:21:50(UTC)
20-VOLT-AC

United Kingdom   
Joined: 27/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 226
Location: united kingdom
Hello Wolf.
How long did it take you to construct this fantastic replica layout of "Leipzig Toy Fair" 1939 ?

Regards Neil.Love
All Metal Marklin Fan .
Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#10 Posted : 05 May 2012 19:22:05(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,402
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Western Pacific Go to Quoted Post
From what I've seen on Wikipedia, German version, the swastika is reversed on the layout flag compared to that of NSDAP and the Third Reich.
Yes, but it's typical for flags that one side shows the image reversed.

See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/...afgesetzbuch_section_86a
In the German version they explicitly say that reversed Hakenkreuze are also illegal since 1994.

Museums may use Hakenkreuze. Historic movies may use Hakenkreuze. I think that private layouts may not use them even if they are exact reproductions of historic layouts.


The image reversed on the back of a flag might be true, but it's not for the 406 flag which shows the same image on both sides. I would provide a picture as proof but .....

Wolf, the layout is absolutely incredible with or without the inclusion of the flags. Overall you have captured the beauty of one of Marklin's greatest toy fair layouts in my opinion. It must have been quite a task to compile all of the necessary materials which were not already in your collection.

Congratulations again!

Best regards,

Paul

Offline steventrain  
#11 Posted : 05 May 2012 20:15:05(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 27,304
Location: Northern Ireland
Look great.Smile
Largest Marklinist Layout with Centrail station 2/Mobile station 2/60174 boosters/C-Tracks/K-Tracks/M-tracks/Favorites class BR01, BR23, BR50, E103, E120/Insider Club membership since 2004.
Offline Webmaster  
#12 Posted : 05 May 2012 20:24:26(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 9,508
An excellent classic layout... Looks great!


Regarding that flag, it is very considerate of you to exclude it in the pictures since there are maybe members who have negative experiences and memories of it from passed times.

However, "The Party" took an old symbol for the sun and mirrored it in the flag so I have a hard time understanding why a mirror back to the original peaceful sun symbol is forbidden by law. I suppose it is the overall flag design concept that is the real disturbing issue. But these are still sensitive matters for some, so maybe it is better to not show them at all.


The layout looks fantastic, flags or no flags... Smile

Edited by user 05 May 2012 20:38:29(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline kimballthurlow  
#13 Posted : 05 May 2012 20:33:25(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 4,183
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: 20-VOLT-AC Go to Quoted Post
Hello Wolf.
How long did it take you to construct this fantastic replica layout of "Leipzig Toy Fair" 1939 ?

Regards Neil.Love


Hi Wolf,

A very impressive effort, in so many respects, and thanks for showing.

Hi Neil,

Wolf says he started building in March 2012.

regards
Kimball

HO Scale - Märklin (ep III, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kimballthurlow
Offline igf2  
#14 Posted : 05 May 2012 20:34:47(UTC)
igf2


Joined: 29/04/2010(UTC)
Posts: 249
Location: France
Hi Wolf

It is the third time I see this layout reproduced since the war. It is a beautiful and marvellous achievement. I must admit that it is also my dream to, once, build this layout.
How many transformer do you use ? Quite a few I guess...
Would it be possible to have more pictures ?

MfG

Jean-Pierre
Offline petestra  
#15 Posted : 05 May 2012 21:11:00(UTC)
petestra

United States   
Joined: 26/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 4,208
Location: washington,dc
Just super, Wolf. The photos really are superb, especially the nighttime shots. I love the Stuttgart Bahnhof. Thanks,Peter
ThumpUp ThumpUp ThumpUp
Offline 3rail4life  
#16 Posted : 05 May 2012 21:31:37(UTC)
3rail4life

United States   
Joined: 23/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 289
Location: Northern California
Absolutely Fantastic Wolf,

Thank you so much for sharing your collection and layouts with the forum, with your attitude and dedication, to me, you are the Märkin gauge 00 König.

Gordon
Offline jeehring  
#17 Posted : 05 May 2012 21:38:54(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,748
Location: ,
Woww....super, marvellous, so beautiful,... thank you Wolf for sharing !

Edited by user 05 May 2012 21:48:01(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline river6109  
#18 Posted : 05 May 2012 23:11:51(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 10,766
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Wolf,

This is very special, unique and in my opinion fantastic and what a good idea of re-creating a layout from that era, collecting or as you said buying all the stuff and than building it.
It could be the worlds only layout still in existence and the other part I like, you are using your locos to complete the picture.
I really appreciate this for you to take the time to share this creation, thank you

regards.,

John

Edited by user 04 June 2012 00:19:21(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

http://www.youtube.com/river6109
http://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Online Ian555  
#19 Posted : 06 May 2012 05:22:15(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: Scotland
Hi Wolf,

What a fantastic way to introduce yourself to the forum. ThumpUp

Wonderful layouts.

Ian.



Offline BrandonVA  
#20 Posted : 08 May 2012 17:24:42(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,045
Location: VA
There is a lot of magic in this pre-war Marklin. There was certainly a great feeling in the products and catalogs back then, hard to describe. Of course it's great!

A note to the images: The imagines themselves are not hosted on the forum servers, but are linked from another server with a .de registration. I do not know or claim to know anything about the laws, this is just the technical side.
Offline eberhardt  
#21 Posted : 02 June 2012 18:11:57(UTC)
eberhardt


Joined: 06/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 22
Location: Newcastle under Lyme
You're right Brandon, it is magic. As a child in the late forties early fifties I saw pictures of layouts like this and just dreamed. Wolf's attic must be where we all go when we die, paradise.
Offline Johnvr  
#22 Posted : 02 June 2012 21:52:45(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 815
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Absolutely wonderful layout and an inspiration for everyone !
Thank you so much for sharing these pictures with us.
We love to see Marklin from these older layout sets.

Regards,BigGrin
John
Offline Loadmaster  
#23 Posted : 02 June 2012 23:12:50(UTC)
Loadmaster

United States   
Joined: 03/02/2010(UTC)
Posts: 868
Location: So Cal
I like that style catenary.

Rob
HOac and Z scale running SBB/BLS Era IV-VUserPostedImage
Offline GTSE800  
#24 Posted : 03 June 2012 00:38:26(UTC)
GTSE800


Joined: 07/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 74
Location: RI
Very nice layout Wolf,
It may be an old design, but it looks more like something from the future. (I think it's great)
A true classic for sure......

Darryl / GTSE800
GTSE800
Offline franciscohg  
#25 Posted : 03 June 2012 20:32:01(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,614
Location: Patagonia
WOOOOWWWW, simply great............
You should be awarded for this!!!!!!!!!!!
Espectacular...
Simply no words to say how impress am i
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD
Offline TrainIride  
#26 Posted : 03 June 2012 21:15:53(UTC)
TrainIride

France   
Joined: 22/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,044
Location: FRANCE
Unbelievable and wonderful ThumpUp ThumpUp ThumpUp
Regards
Joël


Marklin HO - M track & C track - Analog mode - DC locos conversion to AC - http://www.marklin-users.net/TrainIride - my channel : http://www.youtube.com/user/2mes2mains
Offline drstapes  
#27 Posted : 03 June 2012 21:40:45(UTC)
drstapes

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 743
Location: Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk
By far the best vintage layout I have seen,well done Wolf.
Regards

Geoff (UK)

marklin HO from the 50's and 60's
Offline petestra  
#28 Posted : 03 June 2012 21:54:14(UTC)
petestra

United States   
Joined: 26/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 4,208
Location: washington,dc
Hi Guys, you know it's a great track plan too. It has a-lot of play value. PeterThumpUp Smile
Offline NZMarklinist  
#29 Posted : 10 June 2012 13:31:42(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,332
Location: Auckland NZ
Hello Wolf,
Very nice pictures of your lovely layout, thanks for sharing your dream. BigGrin I didn't notice any hakencruze flags Wink
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline NZMarklinist  
#30 Posted : 10 June 2012 13:33:30(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,332
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: Loadmaster Go to Quoted Post
I like that style catenary.

Rob


Yeah but having the correct Catenary would be an improvement for the future Smile
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline LMS800  
#31 Posted : 10 June 2012 14:08:49(UTC)
LMS800

Germany   
Joined: 02/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 135
Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Loadmaster Go to Quoted Post
I like that style catenary.

Rob


Yeah but having the correct Catenary would be an improvement for the future Smile


Hello Glen,
what do you mean with correct catenary ?
Regards Wolf
Offline river6109  
#32 Posted : 10 June 2012 16:41:20(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 10,766
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Glen, this is the correct catanary for this period, I think the idea behind the layout it is from as specific era and the catanary supplements this era.

If you use todays catanary it wouldn't be a layout form the 1940's, I think this was the whole idea behind it.

John

Edited by user 11 June 2012 12:42:32(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

http://www.youtube.com/river6109
http://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
Offline NZMarklinist  
#33 Posted : 11 June 2012 01:53:00(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,332
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: LMS800 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Loadmaster Go to Quoted Post
I like that style catenary.

Rob


Yeah but having the correct Catenary would be an improvement for the future Smile


Hello Glen,
what do you mean with correct catenary ?
Regards Wolf


Hello Wolf,
Humble apologies, it was a bit late and I obviously didn't notice that either Blushing
A gap in my Marklin historical knowledge, that I wasn't aware of and don't ever recall seeing for sale, the earlier and obviously correct Catenary type for your layout, sorry about that.
The earliest Marklin Catenary I was aware of was the plastic mast, stamped wire type, as I had on my childhood layout in the early 60's.
Thanks for more knowledge. ThumpUp Smile
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline intruder  
#34 Posted : 11 June 2012 06:56:04(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,532
Location: Akershus, Norway
Hi Wolf.

Looking at your photos and seeing what you have made, I have just one word:

Fantastic!
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline kweekalot  
#35 Posted : 27 June 2012 11:33:00(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,565
Location: Holland
Wolf, my humble compliments, this is where our Marklin hobby is all about !!
Through your beautiful post, I (today) joined this super forum.
What a great idea to rebuild this 1939 "anlage", and let it rise from the ashes.
(A pity that your tube post is a bit low quality (blur)).
Offline figmo84  
#36 Posted : 22 July 2012 10:08:30(UTC)
figmo84


Joined: 03/06/2011(UTC)
Posts: 10
Location: atlanta
You are to be contratulated...your layout is a true work of art !

What is the smooth table top material you used ?
Offline kumarvartak  
#37 Posted : 09 August 2012 03:40:10(UTC)
kumarvartak


Joined: 25/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 86
Location: India
Dear Wolf,
I have seen the incredible photos of the Leipzig Fair 1939 layout they are fantastic and it will take a lot of skill and effort, to duplicate this quality and detail. I am from India and we have a word " Guru" , meaning great teacher.
You are truly my Guru for creating Marklin authentic layouts. Never take this one apart, keep it for posterity and for generations of the future. Hope one day that I will create, a layout a little like this.
Great Going,
Kumar
Offline LMS800  
#38 Posted : 09 August 2012 06:41:11(UTC)
LMS800

Germany   
Joined: 02/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 135
Originally Posted by: kumarvartak Go to Quoted Post
Dear Wolf,
I have seen the incredible photos of the Leipzig Fair 1939 layout they are fantastic and it will take a lot of skill and effort, to duplicate this quality and detail. I am from India and we have a word " Guru" , meaning great teacher.
You are truly my Guru for creating Marklin authentic layouts. Never take this one apart, keep it for posterity and for generations of the future. Hope one day that I will create, a layout a little like this.
Great Going,
Kumar


Dear Kumar,
many thanks for your kind words.
But building such a layout is just a copy of old plans . I like these types of layout as the focus the view on Märklin articles.
But I must admit - this is very "cost intensive"....
Regards
Wolf
Offline GlennM  
#39 Posted : 09 August 2012 12:01:46(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,468
Location: Somewhere Near Manchester, England

Wolf,

I would like to say what a wonderful layout. I love to see the old photographs of some of the great layouts that were built in the past, and it is fantastic to see one fully recreated like yours. I cannot begin to imagine how long it must have taken to source original parts for such a large layout but it looks great.

I would also like to say in response to the discussions concerning the flags at the beginning of this post, that this replica layout has been done to honor the layout that was actually produced for the Leipzig Fair, and not as a political statement. Therefore I do not see anything offensive or wrong in having the correct flag that was displayed in the original layout, as this is historical fact. It is unnecessary to politicise a model rail layout purely for the purposes of political correctness.

I hope this layout gives you great joy, and thanks for sharing it with us.

Best Regards

Glenn
Offline Marklin in Oz  
#40 Posted : 02 October 2012 02:43:07(UTC)
Marklin in Oz

United States   
Joined: 24/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 221
Location: Lawrence Kansas
Absolutely amazing. I’ve got a 1940 catalog with a picture of the original (The dreaded Swastikas are black out with an ink pen). To see the whole thing reproduced is just astounding. Fantastic work.
-Fred
Offline Alberto Pedrini  
#41 Posted : 03 October 2012 15:24:49(UTC)
Alberto Pedrini

Italy   
Joined: 02/07/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,360
Location: Italy
Great work Wolf, I just read this topic today, I too have dreamed of this layout, it is a piece of story, thanks for sharing it
Alberto

Marklinfan Club Italia
www.marklinfan.net
Offline Breitenfurt  
#42 Posted : 03 November 2012 18:42:18(UTC)
Breitenfurt


Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 872
Location: Scotland
Wow, what can I say? Just wish I had both the skills and patience to build such a wonderful layout!

With best wishes,
Chris.
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