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Offline kweekalot  
#1 Posted : 17 July 2012 14:12:52(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,231
Location: Holland
Today I saw a super lovely 1947 "T800 version 4" for sale.
I had this very nice loco in my hands for one hour and almost bought it.....
I had the opportunity to make some pictures of the beauty....

Edited by user 17 July 2012 19:18:04(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

kweekalot attached the following image(s):
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100_9262.JPG
100_9264.JPG
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100_9266.JPG
100_9261.JPG
Offline kweekalot  
#2 Posted : 17 July 2012 14:19:34(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,231
Location: Holland
I told Ian about the T800(4) I saw for sale, but he don't want her.

I called a Dutch collector 15 minutes ago, to check if the asking price (€ 450) is reasonable.

He told me that this 1947 T800 (version 4) Steamloco were sold 3 years ago for € 800 - € 1000, but now the market for 800 series Marklin has dramatically collapsed for different reasons, and prices dropped about 25% and even more.
He told me that the value off a T800(4) without the original carton box is nowadays € 500 - € 600, so the asking price seems super reasonable.

Edited by user 17 July 2012 14:25:51(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline LMS800  
#3 Posted : 17 July 2012 16:52:59(UTC)
LMS800

Germany   
Joined: 02/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 134
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Today I saw a super lovely 1947 "T800 version 4" for sale.
I had this very nice loco in my hands for one hour and almost bought it.....
I had the opportunity to make some pictures of the beauty....


Hi Marco,
sorry, that is not a T 800 version 4, that is the T 790 (black) from 1950 !!!!!

Wolf
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Offline LMS800  
#4 Posted : 17 July 2012 17:13:18(UTC)
LMS800

Germany   
Joined: 02/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 134
Originally Posted by: LMS800 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Today I saw a super lovely 1947 "T800 version 4" for sale.
I had this very nice loco in my hands for one hour and almost bought it.....
I had the opportunity to make some pictures of the beauty....


Hi Marco,
sorry, that is not a T 800 version 4, that is the T 790 (black) from 1950 !!!!!

Wolf


Marco,
the pictures show the difference between

T 800

UserPostedImage

and T 790 with the handle for the reserve switch

UserPostedImage


Wolf
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Offline Ian555  
#5 Posted : 17 July 2012 17:43:34(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 18,162
Location: Scotland
Hi Wolf,

Thanks for the information on the Loco.

Ian.

Offline kweekalot  
#6 Posted : 17 July 2012 17:47:36(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,231
Location: Holland
Wolf,

Thanks for this superb information !!
Did not know that.
Is the asking price € 450 reasonable??

Marco
Offline LMS800  
#7 Posted : 17 July 2012 18:25:42(UTC)
LMS800

Germany   
Joined: 02/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 134
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Wolf,

Thanks for this superb information !!
Did not know that.
Is the asking price € 450 reasonable??

Marco


Hi Marco,
the price is too high !! I have some doubts with the loco - as far as I can see that from the pics:
I marked with yellow circle where previous cracks ( zinkpest ?) could be repaired (with special glue) and overpainted.
You can see two different red paints - dark red at the frame - yellow arrow - (original paint) and bright red.
In my opinion is this a sign of "renovation".
Wolf

UserPostedImage
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Offline kweekalot  
#8 Posted : 17 July 2012 18:37:25(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,231
Location: Holland
Wolf,
On the left side of the loco is an inscription T800 !! (see my pictures).
So, people like me think it is a T800.
I have no doubt that the shop owner also believes it is a T800.

But you are 100% right that it is a T790.
A T790 seems to have an T800 inscription.....quit strange.

I Think the value is almost the same as a T800, and the asking price € 450 is reasonable.
I also told Ian that I think the price is maybe a little bit negotiable, and the shop is maybe OK with € 400,00 (not sure about that).

Marco
Offline kweekalot  
#9 Posted : 17 July 2012 18:53:04(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,231
Location: Holland
Wolf,

You are the best!!
Now I see it to. But I didn't see these things without your help and pictures !!
A good lesson learn today, thanks a lot, really I mean that.

There was a good chance that I was going to buy the loco tomorrow morning !!
But now I go back to the shop and tell him your story !!!!

The shop owner is very experienced, he has two large and famous modelrailroad shops for many years.
So I don´t know what to think of him now.

Thanks for your help !!

Marco
Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#10 Posted : 17 July 2012 20:36:41(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,396
Hi Marco,

I agree the price for this T 790 is too high and it was definitely restored (not correctly). In addition to the possible filling of holes from Zincpest the pick-up shoe was replaced (should be spoon type I think? Although in 1950 I guess a slider would be okay?) and some of the wheels don't look correct or were re-attached.

It is a good loco to start with but a good / fair price would be in the 200 - 300 EUR range. T 790 / T 800 locos are pretty common. The earliest T 800 and the gray T 790 are a little bit more rare but I couldn't ever see them selling in the 800 - 100 EUR range unless it was at some crazy auction house.

25% drop in 800-series locos? I don't see much basis for that. The EUR / USD conversion rate has changed things up a bit but the market in Europe is stable (the market for trains that is!). The introduction of many replicas / reproductions has brought prices down a bit, but hardly noticeable. The key is to know what is original and what is not

Best,

Paul
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Offline LMS800  
#11 Posted : 17 July 2012 20:52:47(UTC)
LMS800

Germany   
Joined: 02/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 134
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Wolf,
On the left side of the loco is an inscription T800 !! (see my pictures).
So, people like me think it is a T800.
I have no doubt that the shop owner also believes it is a T800.

But you are 100% right that it is a T790.
A T790 seems to have an T800 inscription.....quit strange.

I Think the value is almost the same as a T800, and the asking price € 450 is reasonable.
I also told Ian that I think the price is maybe a little bit negotiable, and the shop is maybe OK with € 400,00 (not sure about that).

Marco


Marco,
there are more examples for confusing inscriptions on Märklin locos,
you find the inscription ES 800 on different E-locos:
1. loco ES 800 (green), produced 1947--1949, with ES 800 inscription
UserPostedImage

2. RS 790 , produced 1948-1949, in two different colours with ES 800 inscription
UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage

3. RS 800, produced 1938-1946 with RS 800 inscription, but from 1947-1949 with ES 800
UserPostedImage
greyblue RS 800 (left) with RS 800, right one with ES 800

Wolf
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Offline kweekalot  
#12 Posted : 17 July 2012 21:28:32(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,231
Location: Holland
Paul,

Thanks a lot for the excellent info on the so called T800.
Maybe I show the shop owner this topic tomorrow.

As you know I just starting to collect Marklin 1950s-1960s 5 weeks ago.

About 2 months ago I found your fantastic Marklin Stop Website.
I really like that site and spent the hole day on it !
After that, I found this forum and the topic of Wolf about the 1939 Leipzig Toyfaire layout, and became a member.

It is great that now your both helping me, for example why not to buy this not so good and not so lovely T790 for € 450.

T H A N K S !!!

ThumpUp ThumpUp ThumpUp

marco

Edited by user 17 July 2012 21:47:49(UTC)  | Reason: correction/spelling

Offline kweekalot  
#13 Posted : 17 July 2012 21:44:36(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,231
Location: Holland
Wolf,

WOW !! That are really pretty Loco's and pictures !!
This is almost too much for me, I see only sweet things.....16 sleeper track...and these ES800 and RS790 loco's are so perfect and wonderful. Better to have one of those beauties, than 25 modern digital loco's, that is how I think about it..

Thanks for these pictures and your help and advise about the T800 / T790.

ThumpUp ThumpUp ThumpUp

Marco
Offline river6109  
#14 Posted : 18 July 2012 00:05:27(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 10,426
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Marco,

We can thank members for the knowledge and more importantly having models on hand to compare them with anybody thinking of purchasing older type locos and you have found the right place and have done the right thing of telling us of your proposed purchase.
I find it so many times and sometimes for different reasons, whereas members buy locos or accessories at a blown up price or buying parts they don't need.
I hope more members will read this and ask the panlel of experts first (hopefully with some pictures attached) for advice, it will save you al lot of unpleasant memories.

another hint of advice: buying older models either pre war or after that period, make sure the item you buy is original and don't think your purchase is just an investment, it doesn't give you a return for your money. if you think you are investing into trains and you are happy to make 50 dollars after 10 years, i rather buy a fruit tree and sell the fruit after 3 years at a considerable higher price than buying a loco, let it sit for 10 years and most probably you want sell it after this period because you've got attached to it and owning a model like this its always nice to have but in my book its not an investment.

John
http://www.youtube.com/river6109
http://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline river6109  
#15 Posted : 18 July 2012 00:07:24(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 10,426
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Wolf,

could I say your green loco has been renovated ?

John
http://www.youtube.com/river6109
http://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline NZMarklinist  
#16 Posted : 18 July 2012 01:56:42(UTC)
NZMarklinist


Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,254
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Wolf,

. Better to have one of those beauties, than 25 modern digital loco's, that is how I think about it..

Marco


ThumbDown ThumbDown ThumbDown ThumbDown ThumbDown ThumbDown Confused Confused
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#17 Posted : 18 July 2012 04:51:09(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,396
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Wolf,

could I say your green loco has been renovated ?

John


Hi John,

Thanks for your insightful posts and especially bringing up the question of restoration and/or reproductions. I think it is very important to provide reference images as Wolf has dutifully done (thank you, Wolf! ThumpUp ) but perhaps equally important to mention the restoration done to the pieces -- this way other members don't view the replicas as originals.

I will let Wolf decide if he wants to discuss the restoration (if any) done to his pieces and the boxes that go with them.

Best regards,

Paul

Offline Ian555  
#18 Posted : 18 July 2012 07:02:26(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 18,162
Location: Scotland
Hi Wolf,

Thanks for the photo's of those wonderful Loco's. ThumpUp

Ian.

Offline LMS800  
#19 Posted : 18 July 2012 08:36:51(UTC)
LMS800

Germany   
Joined: 02/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 134
Originally Posted by: CCS800KrokHunter3 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Wolf,

could I say your green loco has been renovated ?

John


Hi John,

Thanks for your insightful posts and especially bringing up the question of restoration and/or reproductions. I think it is very important to provide reference images as Wolf has dutifully done (thank you, Wolf! ThumpUp ) but perhaps equally important to mention the restoration done to the pieces -- this way other members don't view the replicas as originals.

I will let Wolf decide if he wants to discuss the restoration (if any) done to his pieces and the boxes that go with them.

Best regards,

Paul



Hi all,

of course - the green ES 800 is renovated in many aspects.
First of all, I am a "Player" for more than 65 years (got my first train set 1943) and in second place a collector for about 20 years. That means, I take renovated / restored locos (coaches and wagons as well) for runs over my different layouts (presently 6 layouts ), whereas first class items are displayed only.
One comment to the question "what is an original loco?". Whenever pick-up shoes or wheels are exchanged, the loco is in my opinion still an original loco. When a toy (or a private car) runs over years / decades, wheels must be exchanged !!
Now let us have a look at the renovated green ES 800:
UserPostedImage


1. Pantographs are replika (Ritter)
2. roof is repainted, original colour is more darkgrey
3. green body is still with original colour. The golden inscriptions are still there but very weak... The green colour is so shiny, as I clean the locos with a special oil (Balistol).
3. The wheels as well as the frame are replika from Ritter

Regards from a "Märklinist", who likes original as well as restored Märklin locos !

Wolf
Offline kweekalot  
#20 Posted : 18 July 2012 19:48:00(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,231
Location: Holland
Hi all,

I went to the shop again this morning, spoke with somebody who's working there (not the owner) and sent a very polite email with a small list what is wrong with the loco (Not T800, Zincpest, repainted etc).
Also wrote that I'm not happy that they want to sell that horror loco to me for € 450, because I'm a good returning client of the shop (who spend > € 3000 last year on lots of C tracks, turnouts, loco's, Faller, books, magazines).

Told them in the email that I think the value of the loco is € 150 because of the zincpest and repainting.

I'm a bit mad because the owner told me yesterday several times that € 450 was a really good deal.

I hope to receive the answer that I can buy the Loco for € 150,00.
Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#21 Posted : 18 July 2012 20:03:41(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,396
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

I went to the shop again this morning, spoke with somebody who's working there (not the owner) and sent a very polite email with a small list what is wrong with the loco (Not T800, Zincpest, repainted etc).
Also wrote that I'm not happy that they want to sell that horror loco to me for € 450, because I'm a good returning client of the shop (who spend > € 3000 last year on lots of C tracks, turnouts, loco's, Faller, books, magazines).

Told them in the email that I think the value of the loco is € 150 because of the zincpest and repainting.

I'm a bit mad because the owner told me yesterday several times that € 450 was a really good deal.

I hope to receive the answer that I can buy the Loco for € 150,00.


Hi Marco,

I wouldn't feel too sad that they told you 450 EUR was a good deal....in their opinion it might have been if they thought the locomotive was valued in the 1000 EUR range.

In the end everyone has a certain price in their mind -- each person buys at different prices and sells at different prices. The point at which they agree is the best BigGrin

Best regards,

Paul

PS. It is a great skill to learn to spot the different versions, restorations (if any), and be able to price locomotives and trains. It takes a lot of time and experience and we are lucky to have this great forum to discuss this so we all can learn.
Offline kweekalot  
#22 Posted : 18 July 2012 20:40:36(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,231
Location: Holland
That are nicely spoken wise words Paul.

And maybe you are right and was the owner really thinking it was a good deal, but I'm not quit sure of that now.

I had my own shop in Holland for many years and did a lot of buying and selling, not model railroad, but live tropical fish.
But now I know buying old Marklin is something completely different, and I have a lot to learn.

Thanks again for your help and advise. ThumpUp

Marco
Offline cookee_nz  
#23 Posted : 18 July 2012 23:34:08(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,751
Location: Wellington
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
That are nicely spoken wise words Paul.

And maybe you are right and was the owner really thinking it was a good deal, but I'm not quit sure of that now.

I had my own shop in Holland for many years and did a lot of buying and selling, not model railroad, but live tropical fish.
But now I know buying old Marklin is something completely different, and I have a lot to learn.

Thanks again for your help and advise. ThumpUp

Marco


"Tropical fish"?, you were halfway there already and didn't even know it.

Perhaps you already know this and no doubt you sold EHEIM Aquarium / Fish Tank accessories, and EHEIM were a good manufacturer of Model Railway accessories for a long time before the business changed direction and became BRAWA. They even made a little VW Draisine in the 1950's modified for solid 3-rail and is a real gem. See this link for an article to the Eheim/Lesney/Matchbox connection (this was news to me).

And they also made the well-known Trolley Bus including a modified Diesel version to run in the slot on the FALLER AMS roadway.

See, we can make even the slightest of connections to link back to our hobby!! Laugh Laugh Sorry for hi-jacking the topic but I'm sure you won't mind.

Cheers

Cookee
NZ

Edited by user 19 July 2012 04:33:58(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
thanks 1 user liked this great post by cookee_nz
Offline river6109  
#24 Posted : 19 July 2012 03:23:04(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 10,426
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

I went to the shop again this morning, spoke with somebody who's working there (not the owner) and sent a very polite email with a small list what is wrong with the loco (Not T800, Zincpest, repainted etc).
Also wrote that I'm not happy that they want to sell that horror loco to me for € 450, because I'm a good returning client of the shop (who spend > € 3000 last year on lots of C tracks, turnouts, loco's, Faller, books, magazines).

Told them in the email that I think the value of the loco is € 150 because of the zincpest and repainting.

I'm a bit mad because the owner told me yesterday several times that € 450 was a really good deal.

I hope to receive the answer that I can buy the Loco for € 150,00.


Marco,

Lets put it this way.

Dealers are running a business to buy and sell trains, for instance there is a seller in the US who sells a single k-track for $ 195.00 obvious it is a mistake but you never know one may buy it for this price and there are also numerous posts on this forum about weird prices, a Mobile station with 9999 addresses for $ 379.00.

Another advice or suggestion I would make, you can't trust anybody with prices these days and as I said before you've done the right thing and checked with the forum first.
You have to find out if this seller or dealer is as honest as you think or as commited to trains as you are and there are buyers they only want hear what they've already got in their mind, I have to have it and the logic and sensible decision making is out the door.

Take stock of your situation and even re-calculate your purchases from this dealer (tracks etc. etc.) with other dealers.
I know there are members who support their local shop but if it is a money matter ( I don't think this cancelled purchase was) you may look somewhere else for your hobby purchases.

This is why I've stated in my earlier posts, investing in trains is not always the answer and especially when the price is already out of proportions.

regards.,

John
http://www.youtube.com/river6109
http://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline river6109  
#25 Posted : 19 July 2012 03:27:37(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 10,426
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Wolf,

thanks for the reply,

I had the suspicion it was restored but another point you've made you operate or play with your trains and I like this idea and the good stuff (original) is gathering momentum.

regards.,

John
http://www.youtube.com/river6109
http://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Ian555  
#26 Posted : 19 July 2012 05:52:31(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 18,162
Location: Scotland
Originally Posted by: CCS800KrokHunter3 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

I went to the shop again this morning, spoke with somebody who's working there (not the owner) and sent a very polite email with a small list what is wrong with the loco (Not T800, Zincpest, repainted etc).
Also wrote that I'm not happy that they want to sell that horror loco to me for € 450, because I'm a good returning client of the shop (who spend > € 3000 last year on lots of C tracks, turnouts, loco's, Faller, books, magazines).

Told them in the email that I think the value of the loco is € 150 because of the zincpest and repainting.

I'm a bit mad because the owner told me yesterday several times that € 450 was a really good deal.

I hope to receive the answer that I can buy the Loco for € 150,00.


Hi Marco,

I wouldn't feel too sad that they told you 450 EUR was a good deal....in their opinion it might have been if they thought the locomotive was valued in the 1000 EUR range.

In the end everyone has a certain price in their mind -- each person buys at different prices and sells at different prices. The point at which they agree is the best BigGrin

Best regards,

Paul

PS. It is a great skill to learn to spot the different versions, restorations (if any), and be able to price locomotives and trains. It takes a lot of time and experience and we are lucky to have this great forum to discuss this so we all can learn.



Hi all,

As a "newbie" to buying the early 1930's to 50's Märklin, I'd like to take this oppurtunity to thank the forum members that are keeping me on the right track, and sharing their wealth of knowledge with us all.

Thankyou.

Ian.

Offline kweekalot  
#27 Posted : 19 July 2012 09:39:25(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,231
Location: Holland
Hi Cookee,
Yes, I sold 10.000s Eheim aquarium items in my life !
I love it that you know about Eheim (aquarium).

I'm 46, but I worked 30 years in the tropical fish business as a breeder and seller, before I had my own shop, I worked in different fish shops as an employee. Eheim is the best brand there is (in the aquarium business).
3 times more expensive than other brands, but also 3 times better and reliable !! (just like Marklin).
Eheim Filters and pumps still do there job after 25 years in 24/7 service (just like Marklin).
And the older Eheim looks really sweet, for me the classic Eheim looks better than the more modern Eheim (just like Marklin).
And one can still buy original parts of the older models, that is amazing (not just like Marklin).
Other old good brands are Sera (also German) and Rena (France) (but not as good as Eheim).

Marco
kweekalot attached the following image(s):
6013_1.jpg
Offline LMS800  
#28 Posted : 19 July 2012 10:21:05(UTC)
LMS800

Germany   
Joined: 02/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 134
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Hi Cookee,
Yes, I sold 10.000s Eheim aquarium items in my life !
I love it that you know about Eheim (aquarium).

.........
3 times more expensive than other brands, but also 3 times better and reliable !! (just like Marklin).
Eheim Filters and pumps still do there job after 25 years in 24/7 service (just like Marklin).
And the older Eheim looks really sweet, for me the classic Eheim looks better than the more modern Eheim (just like Marklin).
.......
Marco


Hi Marco,
I appreciate very much your (underlined) statements !!!

Wolf
Offline kweekalot  
#29 Posted : 19 July 2012 10:55:34(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,231
Location: Holland
Thanks Wolf !!

By the way, I can read and understand perfectly German, just as good as Dutch and English.
I learned German as a child in the 1970s looking in Faller, Trix and Marklin Magazines and also in School.
But when I try to write German I make lots of mistakes because German it isn't so easy to write.
Otherwise I also became a member of "Alte Modelbahnen".
Wow, I really love that forum, one can see so much super sweet pictures and stories of original older layouts.

I also love the word "Moba" (= Modelbahn = Layout).
Think we can use the Moba word also on this forum, or isn't it that common and international ??

marco

Offline kweekalot  
#30 Posted : 19 July 2012 19:57:30(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,231
Location: Holland
The last 5 weeks a bought 350 pieces of 1947-1953 solid centre rail track for my new 1950 layout.
And now this afternoon I bought a proper Loco that belongs on this 1950s track.

YES !! I bought the super sweet and lovely 1950 T790 (2) !!

It took me 3 days and several phone calls and some visits and emails with Frank, the owner of the Dutch shop "De Houtloods".

The loco was there for sale for 5 years, but Frank never found a buyer (because his asking price was not OK).

I really wanted this sweet 62 years old loco, but I also don't wanted to pay € 450 for it.

This afternoon Frank and me opened the T790 in his shop, because no matter what we did, the T790 didn't want to ride 1cm today. Two days ago the loc ride, but not today.
We give her some new brushes and a proper oil job, and now the loco runs just fine.
And really no zincpest at all, only the red is a little bit repainted.

And I think you all want to know... I paid € 220,00 for her.

I found out that Frank is a fantastic nice person (and an ex-tropical fish breeder, just like me).

Edited by user 19 July 2012 21:15:15(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

kweekalot attached the following image(s):
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Offline kweekalot  
#31 Posted : 19 July 2012 21:12:13(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,231
Location: Holland
Steamloco T790 on Page 15 in the Marklin catalogue 1950...

kweekalot attached the following image(s):
T790(2).jpg
Offline river6109  
#32 Posted : 20 July 2012 01:30:58(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 10,426
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Marco wrote:

I'm 46, but I worked 30 years in the tropical fish business as a breeder and seller, before I had my own shop, I worked in different fish shops as an employee.

What machine did you use to make chips ?LOL

John
http://www.youtube.com/river6109
http://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Ian555  
#33 Posted : 20 July 2012 06:19:33(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 18,162
Location: Scotland
Hi Marco,

What a good buy, she looks great on your solid center rail track. ThumpUp

Ian.

Offline LMS800  
#34 Posted : 20 July 2012 06:48:42(UTC)
LMS800

Germany   
Joined: 02/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 134
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Steamloco T790 on Page 15 in the Marklin catalogue 1950...



Hi Marco,
congratulations for an excellent deal !!!
Very nice and reliable loco with the old 700-technique !!
Your black loco is version 2 , built 1950, now look for version 1 from 1949 (bit more expensive) BigGrin
To show you the difference in colour I attach a picture.
Regards Wolf

UserPostedImage
Offline kweekalot  
#35 Posted : 20 July 2012 07:52:43(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,231
Location: Holland
Ian,

Thanks !

This T790 is something completely different than your (also very nice) BR52/53K Condensor Tender Loco's.

marco

Offline Ian555  
#36 Posted : 20 July 2012 08:00:54(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 18,162
Location: Scotland
Hi Marco,

Yes, they are so different, and yet the same, they are both Märklin.

My oldest Loco is a 1954 BR23 DA800, so I will have to start looking for something to run on my late 1930's layout.

I do have one loco that is older, an (approx.) 1927 O gauge clockwork R950.

Ian.

Offline Ian555  
#37 Posted : 20 July 2012 08:02:26(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 18,162
Location: Scotland
Hi Wolf,

Very nice pair of Loco's. ThumpUp

Ian.

Offline kweekalot  
#38 Posted : 20 July 2012 08:03:00(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,231
Location: Holland
Wolf,

Thanks !!

Again that I a really lovely photo of your 16 sleeper moba.
Your T790 (2) looks in a bit better condition than mine.
I don't think I'm going to buy a 790 (1), because I prefer the black color, and not so much the grey.

Finding a T800 that I can afford would be nice , or even better a RS790

I fell in love on this Eloc after your previous pictures of those super sweet machines.

Thanks again for your lessons and your help with buying this loco.

Schöne Grüße aus Holland!
marco

Edited by user 20 July 2012 08:15:16(UTC)  | Reason: correction / spelling

Offline kweekalot  
#39 Posted : 20 July 2012 08:14:22(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,231
Location: Holland
Originally Posted by: Ian555 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Marco,

Yes, they are so different, and yet the same, they are both Märklin.

My oldest Loco is a 1954 BR23 DA800, so I will have to start looking for something to run on my late 1930's layout.

I do have one loco that is older, an (approx.) 1927 O gauge clockwork R950.

Ian.




Ian, have you ever thought of buying in Holland??

You know I'm not an expert on this, but it seems to me that the prices in Holland of used Marklin are somewhat low and much better than in UK and US.

marco
Offline kweekalot  
#40 Posted : 21 July 2012 09:09:56(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,231
Location: Holland
I did the first temporally repair on the T790.
The ski pick up shoe that was on it, was bended and I replaced it for a small one

The wheels are in poor condition, and one wheel is not original and really ugly.
The wheels spins badly, they don't have any grip on the tracks.
The loco can't pull anything and cannot clime.
This is not caused by thy pick up shoe and is also not caused by dirty slippery wheels or track.
I Cleaned the wheels and track with alcohol to find out.
The wheels are not designed for anti slip rubbers, so anti slip tires can't be mounted.

I'm going to restore the loco in a proper way.
All the parts are for sale at Ritter, also new wheels and the original tongue sliders, that belongs on this loco. And even the original color paint !! Wow !!!

http://www.ritter-restaurationen.de/

In the past I restored a few Kreidler 50cc motorcycles, so a restoration project is not completely new for me.

Edited by user 21 July 2012 09:17:55(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

kweekalot attached the following image(s):
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Offline LMS800  
#41 Posted : 21 July 2012 10:19:45(UTC)
LMS800

Germany   
Joined: 02/05/2012(UTC)
Posts: 134
Hi Marco,
be careful with the wheels !! You need proper tools to exchange them, the most complex work is to get the axes out !!!!
Ask Ritter how much this work will cost as you are going to buy the wheels from Ritter.
Regards Wolf
Offline kweekalot  
#42 Posted : 21 July 2012 16:50:59(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,231
Location: Holland
Thanks Wolf, I think that can be done with a "poelie trekker" or "Abziehvorrichtung".
I only now the Dutch and German words for that tool.

I have got quit a few, but only big heavy duty ones, now I need a really small one.

But I will ask Ritter if they can do it for me.

This afternoon me and my son Stefan did a little test ride with the T790 on our temporally layout "Schönblick".

I cleaned the wheels again and agian, and the slipping is now reduced a little bit.

We made a little video. (Our (5) cats are normally not allowed in our train room).

Edited by user 21 July 2012 17:11:48(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline steventrain  
#43 Posted : 21 July 2012 18:11:36(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 26,406
Location: Northern Ireland
Excellent video, Marco.ThumpUp
Largest marklinist Layout with Centrail station 2/Mobile station 2/60174 boosters/C-Tracks/K-Tracks/Favorites class BR01, BR23, BR50/Insider Club membership since 2004.
Offline kweekalot  
#44 Posted : 21 July 2012 20:39:19(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,231
Location: Holland
Thanks Steven !!
It is my first video here.

Offline jvuye  
#45 Posted : 22 July 2012 07:42:17(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,663
Location: South Western France
Hi , read the whole story...nice move and happy to see you've got the bug and willing to do things "right"!
For wheel pullers, wheel press and quartering tools see here: http://www.fohrmann.com/...ug-fur-modellbahner.html
I have been doing business with them for over 20 years, never had to complain once...to the contrary.
Good luck with the restoration...don't hesitate to come back with questions: rather "stop and ask"Confused than "rushing to disaster"Crying
Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learning to be better and had great success!
Offline jvuye  
#46 Posted : 22 July 2012 07:53:33(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,663
Location: South Western France
Just another comment I forgot in my previous reply: in theory one can cut the grooves in the wheels to install adherence tires (I have the lathe special attachments to perform it, and done many time) but I would advise against doing this an a 4 wheeled loco, as your power pick up may be (and will be!) negatively impacted.

However, attaching an old style, 1950's all metal coach or car behind it , would greatly enhance performance....but not so obviously with a plastic chassis and couplers like on today's vehicles!RollEyes BigGrin

Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learning to be better and had great success!
Offline kweekalot  
#47 Posted : 22 July 2012 08:28:12(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,231
Location: Holland
Hi Jacques,

Thanks a lot for reading my T790 post.
It is nice to get some reactions.

I''m very interested in the tools you mentioned in the link. Thanks for that !!
I love (all) tools, a man is nothing without his tools.
Think that I'm going to repair or restore lots of loco's the coming years, so I can used those tools.

About the anti slip tires, you are quit right.
Two wheels don't pick up good enough current, causing a lots of sparkes (with is not so good for the condition of the track and wheels). Thanks for warning me !!

And Yes, you are right about the two plastic coaches, shame on me!
I know just what you mean. But my son Stefan (11) like that coaches a lot.
2 days ago I bought my first all metal coach (in total mint condition) for only € 10,=

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Offline Bayer  
#48 Posted : 25 July 2012 15:42:05(UTC)
Bayer


Joined: 15/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: Helsingør, Denmark
Originally Posted by: kweekalot Go to Quoted Post
Wolf,

Finding a T800 that I can afford would be nice , or even better a RS790

I fell in love on this Eloc after your previous pictures of those super sweet machines.



Hello Marco

The RS 790 is a super loco just like the RS 800 N and the ES 800. They are great runners and very simple, both on the inside and on the outside.

For your T 790 I would go for some old freight tinplate wagons, just like the ones from the starter set T 790/3. Here is my RS 790/3 starter set:

UserPostedImage

Very simple and yet very beautiful.

Regards,
Thor

Offline foumaro  
#49 Posted : 25 July 2012 16:06:54(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 3,345
Location: ATHENS-GREECE
First time i see this masterpiece,wonderfull.LOL Love
Offline kweekalot  
#50 Posted : 25 July 2012 16:38:35(UTC)
kweekalot

Netherlands   
Joined: 27/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,231
Location: Holland
Hi Thor,

Your set is indeed a masterpiece.
Thanks for the info and and photo

I have a few things on my (loco)wish list.
And the RS790 is at the top, followed by T800 on number 2 and number 3 is a 3025.
Maybe it takes me a few years, but one day they will ride on my layout.

Marco
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