Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline saetta  
#1 Posted : 26 May 2012 22:26:44(UTC)
saetta


Joined: 24/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 42
Location: Davis ca
I have heard that all new digital locomotive from Marklin now have a built capacitor to prevent stalling. With my current digital layuot there are more frequent then desired stalls, unless my tracks are cleaned every day. Does anybody knows if new loco's have these capacitors. Don't see it in new loco specs.Confused
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 27 May 2012 06:13:57(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 9,178
They don't show in the explosion diagrams, they are not mentioned in the manual - but they are present in most locomotives with the new generation of mfx decoders.
Regards
Tom
---
Happy customer of Roco, Piko, Fleischmann, ESU, Brawa, Liliput, Rivarossi, Lima, ... - and will happily continue to buy locos that run well out of the box. I'm also happy with 95% of my Märklin items, but will avoid a few cost-optimized items made 2011 or later.
Offline saetta  
#3 Posted : 20 June 2012 23:48:48(UTC)
saetta


Joined: 24/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 42
Location: Davis ca
It is amazing that I would only get one reply on this subject by the entire forum. Equally amazing that Marklin would keep this issue a "quasi secret".
Either I have terrible luck or the c track combined with new digital technology requires constant cleaning for it to work with out glitches, and capacitors in loco's should be a VERY welcomed addition.
Anyway HO (Tom) thank you for taking the time to reply

Regards
Mike
Offline Marty  
#4 Posted : 21 June 2012 00:41:22(UTC)
Marty

United States   
Joined: 28/05/2008(UTC)
Posts: 254
Location: USA
Hi Mike,

You're not the only one with this problem. Here is a thread on adding a capacitor to the E10/E40 locomotives (39110 &39140).


http://www.marklin-users...g-a-330uF-capacitor.aspx

As far as the new Märklin loks go, I don't know if capacitors are now part of the configuration.

Sorry, I missed your thread first time around. Blushing

Marty
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#5 Posted : 21 June 2012 01:41:59(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 13,863
Location: New Zealand
The ESU Loksound v4 decoders have an option for a capacitor to be added, but I don't know about the Marklin mSD/mLD decoders. Maybe you should send an email to Dr Tom Catherall at Marklin USA - he writes the Marklin Digital newsletter.
Offline river6109  
#6 Posted : 21 June 2012 05:02:32(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 10,766
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Further comments on this topic is, Märklin hasn't been able to produce a middle contact which doesn't give you constant problems, they've improved the sleeves on K-tracks from copper to stainless steel.
I'm trying at the moment to spray WD 40 onto the middle contact and it has been successful with older k-track turnouts and they haven't gone rusty sofar.
Hopefully in future it will put a thin film onto the middle contact but the moment a loco drives over it it may remove it again and the idea behind it is fruitless.
Although, my layout is now over 24 years old I continually cleaned the middle contact and over the years has almost rubbed off the middle contact down to its sleeper, hence trying to find another way of keeping the middle contact clean.

Any improvements even on the c-track wouldn't be applicable for my layout because I have no intention to rip up the total tracks.

I'm also a bit dissapointed and confused why modeltrain manufacturers tell us, running digital locos over the overhead system is not recommended and some locos the panhtos are disconnected from any electrical contact except the motor rising and lowering them.

As we all know, Stainless steel is not a very good electrical conductor but I would rather have stainless steel middle contacts than having constant problems with stalling.

Although the battery helps overcome the stalling we may have a rechargable battery in future to last longer.

John

http://www.youtube.com/river6109
http://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline RayF  
#7 Posted : 21 June 2012 07:20:56(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,730
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi John,

The stalling that I often get on the layout has nothing to do with turnouts, or even the centre studs. It is usually down to poor ground return through the running rails. Cleaning the rails usually eliminates the problems, although sometimes it is a problem with a particular loco having dirty axles, producing the same effect.

The worst affected parts of the layout are in sidings, which sometimes don't see as much use as the main lines.
Ray

Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline saetta  
#8 Posted : 22 June 2012 00:24:27(UTC)
saetta


Joined: 24/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 42
Location: Davis ca
Well it's nice too know we are not alone! Thank you all for your answers. I will try and contact Walters on this issue and maybe Marklin itself!
I don't plan to buy any new loko's until I know that the come with capacitors.
Cheers
Mike
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#9 Posted : 22 June 2012 01:20:29(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 13,863
Location: New Zealand
I hear that the lux cleaning cars are a pretty good investment for cleaning track, and they can be obtained as a double pack for $400 USD.
Offline Chris6382chris  
#10 Posted : 22 June 2012 01:41:15(UTC)
Chris6382chris

United States   
Joined: 11/07/2010(UTC)
Posts: 967
Location: Wine Country, CA
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
I hear that the lux cleaning cars are a pretty good investment for cleaning track, and they can be obtained as a double pack for $400 USD.


Big Daddy I was just about to ask the group about what track cleaners people use and I saw your post. Besides the Lux track cleaners are there any other good cleaning wagons that work reasonably well at a reasonable price?

Thanks and good topic Saetta.

Chris
Offline river6109  
#11 Posted : 22 June 2012 02:02:33(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 10,766
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Hi John,

The stalling that I often get on the layout has nothing to do with turnouts, or even the centre studs. It is usually down to poor ground return through the running rails. Cleaning the rails usually eliminates the problems, although sometimes it is a problem with a particular loco having dirty axles, producing the same effect.

The worst affected parts of the layout are in sidings, which sometimes don't see as much use as the main lines.


Ray,

I can assure you it has something to do in my case odd enough my tracks are not dirty although the layout is not in an dust free environment and furthermore, my locos receive very little oil because of my locos having ballbearings in the motor and this partly eliminates oil finishing up on wheels or tracks.
I still find locos, when converting them for clients, there is a lot of oil underneath the slider.
Another reason is also by applying more oil than needed most of the time, the rubbertyres will expand anda 100% grip has gone.

Some older locos of mine, e.g. TM 800, Rm 800 and others I have had problems with dirty axles and cleaned them and it solved the problem.
Other issues such as oxidized copper part of the slider (stock items lying for years in boxes) has also prevented the loco receiving proper contact and even the slider itself received a film of somesort of oxididation and it needed a swipe with very fine sandpaper.

I'm somewhat surprised, anyone has problems with their locos, as I mentioned my layout is over 20 years old and had exposure to acidity and my locos are also exposed to humidity and I must say have survived over the many years.

Another reason could also be, having converted them over the years, they had a makeover and while converting them a maintenance check was done.

So in hindsight, looking at all the problems, it isn't just the centre stud.

regards.,

John












http://www.youtube.com/river6109
http://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline eroncelli  
#12 Posted : 23 June 2012 07:18:00(UTC)
eroncelli

Italy   
Joined: 16/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 91
Location: Bergamo - italy
And don't forget to clean the wheels too !
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#13 Posted : 23 June 2012 11:28:25(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 13,863
Location: New Zealand
Hi Chris, here's a link to a description of the Lux cars on Mike's Euromodeltrains site: http://www.euromodeltrai...pany=LUX&tag1=luxssf


Roco produce a non motorised cleaning car - http://www.roco.com/products/Roco/46400.aspx - as do Marklin - http://www.eurorailhobbi...mp;sc=HO&stock=46042


And here's a previous forum thread on track cleaning cars: http://www.marklin-users..._Track-Cleaning-Car.aspx
Offline mvd71  
#14 Posted : 24 June 2012 05:31:05(UTC)
mvd71


Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 888
Location: Auckland,
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Further comments on this topic is, Märklin hasn't been able to produce a middle contact which doesn't give you constant problems, they've improved the sleeves on K-tracks from copper to stainless steel.
I'm trying at the moment to spray WD 40 onto the middle contact and it has been successful with older k-track turnouts and they haven't gone rusty sofar.
Hopefully in future it will put a thin film onto the middle contact but the moment a loco drives over it it may remove it again and the idea behind it is fruitless.
Although, my layout is now over 24 years old I continually cleaned the middle contact and over the years has almost rubbed off the middle contact down to its sleeper, hence trying to find another way of keeping the middle contact clean.

Any improvements even on the c-track wouldn't be applicable for my layout because I have no intention to rip up the total tracks.

I'm also a bit dissapointed and confused why modeltrain manufacturers tell us, running digital locos over the overhead system is not recommended and some locos the panhtos are disconnected from any electrical contact except the motor rising and lowering them.

As we all know, Stainless steel is not a very good electrical conductor but I would rather have stainless steel middle contacts than having constant problems with stalling.

Although the battery helps overcome the stalling we may have a rechargable battery in future to last longer.

John



Hi John,

One of the guys in our club runs all his digital electric loco's from the catenary, and has done so for many years without any trouble at all.

Cheers.....

Mike.
Offline jeehring  
#15 Posted : 25 June 2012 08:51:43(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,745
Location: ,
....have a look here :
http://ringengineering.c...lProToDccComparision.htm

Of course, there is some exageration because they want to promote their product, but, some of the statements about digital DCC are not false...( few other statements are somewhat... dubious.)

Yes, electrical contact between rails and wheels always was the Achille's heel of miniature trains and Digital decoders of today with a lot of firmware inside, are sensitive to electrical micro cuts....

I spent many years with Marklin analog layout, I never have the need to clean rails or so rarely and no more than any object in my home .....(at this time I had half a dozen machines rolling on this layout)...

Older Marklin decoders were a mix of analog logical circuits with a little bit of firmware, they were less sensitive than current decoders...(well... I'm not very sure about the reason why they were less sensitive, but it's a fact.)

PS :
Marklin is MFX, on the advertising mentionned above they don't talk about MFX. As a global principle it's similar to DCC, despite that electrical specifications of the MFX protocole are different , it's also digital....I just wonder if some wheel profiles are better than others

Edited by user 25 June 2012 10:14:21(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline RayF  
#16 Posted : 25 June 2012 09:10:40(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,730
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: jeehring Go to Quoted Post


....

Older Marklin decoders were a mix of analog logical circuits with a little bit of firmware, they were less sensitive than current decoders...(well... I'm not very sure about the reason why they were less sensitive, but it's a fact.)



I agree with this statement. My earlier digital locomotives, up to those with 60902 decoders, are far less sensitive to dirty track. In fact, my favourite decoder of all time so far is the 60902, in terms of smoothness of running.

The worst I've ever seen is the Lokpilot V2. I have two locos with these fitted and I'm lucky if I can get a whole lap of my layout without them stalling somewhere!
Ray

Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline mvd71  
#17 Posted : 25 June 2012 09:30:38(UTC)
mvd71


Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 888
Location: Auckland,
I would have to agree, the 60902 is still a firm favourite as a decoder. I was extremely happy with the first generation C-sine loco's too. After that, the decoders got technically better, but somehow they were not.Huh

Nevermind, that progress for you!Flapper

Cheers....

Mike.
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2014, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 1.108 seconds.