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Offline acacio  
#1 Posted : 13 June 2012 20:59:51(UTC)
acacio

Switzerland   
Joined: 04/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Neuchatel
Hi,

I'm new to the hobby and not yet done any conversions. I find that there's a lot of information missing or, at least, not in the same place. ;-)

I have 2 lokos that I would like to convert:

- marklin 3760 - SBB Re 460, my favorite loco, simply beautiful fire red, already AC digital, Delta, iiuc.
- marklin 3451 - SBB Re 460, same design as above, AC digitalm DELTA, as well

I have researched the topics already and looking into ESU LokPIlot and the Marklin parts... BUT it is still not clear to me if I need just the decoder OR if I also need to convert/replace the motor for these locos.

It is not clear to me, for instance, what is the difference between the different Marklin conversion kits like: 60760, 60944, 60943 and 60941.
Also, which ones are adequate for these two locos.

I'd like to get them with the latest mfx + sound + fully controllable motors.

Any help you can provide is most welcome.


--Acacio
My locos:
- 37627 - SBB Cargo
- 37462 - SBB Re 460
- 29483 - SBB Cargo 421
- 3760 - SBB Re 460
- 3451 - SBB Re 460
acacio attached the following image(s):
3460.jpg
eb05319ma-ell-wsd01.jpg
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 13 June 2012 22:16:49(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 9,180
Acacio, salut à Neuchâtel!
Originally Posted by: acacio Go to Quoted Post
It is not clear to me, for instance, what is the difference between the different Marklin conversion kits like: 60760, 60944, 60943 and 60941.
A 60760 is a 60941 plus El Cheapo decoder (fx, not mfx). Both can be used for locos that have the 601460 brushes like your 3451 (so if you can get a cheap 60760, take it (you might even get a few CHF if you sell the decoder on eBay or Ricardo)).
The 3760 already has the new motor, you will need a new decoder only.

Locos with brushes 600300 will need either 60943 or 60944 for conversion.

Do you have a CS2?
Do you have an ESU LokProgrammer?
Regards
Tom
---
Happy customer of Roco, Piko, Fleischmann, ESU, Brawa, Liliput, Rivarossi, Lima, ... - and will happily continue to buy locos that run well out of the box. I'm also happy with 95% of my Märklin items, but will avoid a few cost-optimized items made 2011 or later.
Offline river6109  
#3 Posted : 14 June 2012 02:42:53(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 10,766
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Acacio,

Welcome to the forum,

60901, 60903, 60904, (60941, 60943 and 60944) are new numbers but the same conversion kit.

60901 (60941) is suitable for your loco and this goes for any loco with drum collector
60903 (60943) is suitable for locos with a small flat collector
60904 (60944) is suitable for large collector.

all your locos asre fitted with a drum collector.

ESU sound decoders, lokpilots, the latest version M4V4, comes with mfx and RailComPlus, RailComPLus is an advanced version of mfx and lets you program the whole lot, automatic recognition.

regards.,

John
http://www.youtube.com/river6109
http://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Ian555  
#4 Posted : 14 June 2012 07:51:17(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 18,643
Location: Scotland
Hi acacio,

Welcome to the forum. ThumpUp

Ian.

Offline acacio  
#5 Posted : 14 June 2012 19:24:25(UTC)
acacio

Switzerland   
Joined: 04/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Neuchatel
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Acacio, salut à Neuchâtel!

Do you have a CS2?
Do you have an ESU LokProgrammer?


Thx for the help/details.

I only bought the Mobile Station so far until I learned more.
I saw the ESU system that has more protocols but seems harder to use. I also have only Marklin locos so the CS2 might be a better fit. (And the iPad app is sexy!) ;-)

Which one you recommend for a medium-size setup? (< 12 locos)
From river's reply below it seems like the ESU is better, though. I had read about RailComPlus but was not sure it was compatible with the mfx stuff. If it is, that is very compelling.

Thxfor all the help.
Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 14 June 2012 21:06:35(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 9,180
Originally Posted by: acacio Go to Quoted Post
I also have only Marklin locos so the CS2 might be a better fit. (And the iPad app is sexy!) ;-)
I don't have an iPad - and I think ECoS is more user-friendly than the CS2. Well, it better suits the way I want to use it.
The CS2 may be a better choice for others - especially for those with 30 or less locomotives.

ESU implemented mfx for Märklin and made the first mfx decoders for Märklin. If you want mfx, there's only ESU or Märklin - the choice is yours.

Back to decoders: ESU has a long list of sounds you can get pre-installed on their decoders. If you have an ESU LokProgrammer, you can upload any ESU sound to any ESU sound decoder. If you order a decoder with the correct sound, then you don't need the LokProgrammer.
Märklin has three sounds you can get pre-installed (standard steamer, standard diesel, standard electric) and you need a CS2 to update the sounds.

Märklin announced a programmer for their decoders, but no details are known yet. Presumably this will be a cheaper way to update Märklin sound decoders.

You can convert your two locos with either mSD or ESU decoders while you still have the Mobile Station only - just order decoders with a fitting pre-installed sound.
Regards
Tom
---
Happy customer of Roco, Piko, Fleischmann, ESU, Brawa, Liliput, Rivarossi, Lima, ... - and will happily continue to buy locos that run well out of the box. I'm also happy with 95% of my Märklin items, but will avoid a few cost-optimized items made 2011 or later.
Offline acacio  
#7 Posted : 14 June 2012 22:49:06(UTC)
acacio

Switzerland   
Joined: 04/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Neuchatel
So, after thinking about it, I'll try the ESU decoder and upgrade both locos.

Motor upgrade: Marklin 60941
Decoder: ESU 54614 - ESU Lok Pilot v4.0 MM/DCC/SX 21 Pin MTC

Sound:
54468    LokSound V4.0 Electric loco "Universal Neubau - Electric loco (Prototype: Re 460)", Gauge 0,H0
This part is hard to find. :-(

I'm delaying my CS2/ESU LokProgrammer choice a bit until I see a working LokProgrammer to get a feel for it.

Thx, everyone.
Offline mmervine  
#8 Posted : 14 June 2012 23:17:19(UTC)
mmervine

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,590
Location: Spofford, NH
I have converted several Marklin Re460's, so let me try to lend some advice here:

For the 3760:

This one will already have a 5* DC motor, so there is no need to upgrade it. I would recommend installing an ESU 51968 MTC 21-pin adapter board. This will mount in the holder where the current Marklin decoder is. It already has the wires attached, so it will save you a little work. Once it is all connected, a 21 pin ESU LP 4.0 will be able to be installed easily.

For the 3451:

This one has a 3* AC motor, so the 60941 kit will be required to convert it to a 5*DC motor. In addition to the 51968 adapter board and the LP 4.0, you will need to change the bulbs to the 22V .7VA '610080'.

I have had good luck in re-using the Swiss light board that Marklin has installed in these loks (to give the Swiss lighting effect). My only advice is to replace the metal screw that holds this board with a nylon one. On your 3451, the lights will be grounded to the frame and if you don't replace this screw, you can short out the decoder.
Märklin C-track, Digital, ECoS, multi-era French & Swiss
http://www.ete-ene.org/MMLayout.htm
Offline river6109  
#9 Posted : 14 June 2012 23:22:35(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 10,766
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Acacio,

I wouldn't use anything else than a lokprogrammer, a matter of fact without it I would be lost how to program decoders.

I'm surprised you go for a CS2 and lokprogrammer.
I'm pleased you use ESU decoders/Sounddecoders.
As mentioned in my previous post, you have a choice now with ESU decoders to get a M4 V4 decoder, this includes the mfx system + RailComPlus which is a selfrecognized system but with more advantages than the mfx.

Buying a CS2 doesn't allow you to use this feature.
So in your case I would think again before making the final decision.

regards.,

John

Edited by user 14 June 2012 23:36:20(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

http://www.youtube.com/river6109
http://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline acacio  
#10 Posted : 15 June 2012 13:07:40(UTC)
acacio

Switzerland   
Joined: 04/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Neuchatel
After looking at the manuals, I've bought a LokProgrammer and a 51900 "ProfStand".

It's just a pity there isn't software for Mac or Linux :-(
I'll have to setup a mini-PC with Windows just for this.
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