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Offline Jeremy Palmer  
#1 Posted : 04 May 2012 19:32:07(UTC)
Jeremy Palmer

Barbados   
Joined: 14/04/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,453
Location: St. Michael, Barbados
Please oh please...........................



Jeremy.

Edited by moderator 04 May 2012 21:13:25(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Jeremy.

1). If at first you don't succeed, bungee jumping mightn't be for you.
2). The early bird may get the worm, but it's the second rat that gets the cheese.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Jeremy Palmer
Offline GSRR  
#2 Posted : 04 May 2012 23:28:17(UTC)
GSRR

United States   
Joined: 01/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,339
Location: USA
I wish Jeremy. However I think we will have to settle for the AC version from MTH.

r/Thomas


ETE UserPostedImage ECoS iTrain TouchCab C-Gleis German Era Id & IIIb USA Era IIIb SBB Era III SJ Era IV GC Era V
Offline Jeremy Palmer  
#3 Posted : 05 May 2012 00:38:30(UTC)
Jeremy Palmer

Barbados   
Joined: 14/04/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,453
Location: St. Michael, Barbados
Originally Posted by: GSRR Go to Quoted Post
I wish Jeremy. However I think we will have to settle for the AC version from MTH.

r/Thomas




Hi Thomas - Wonder whether anyone here has the Liliput cab fwd BR 05?

Jeremy Palmer attached the following image(s):
BR 05 Cab fwd.gif
Jeremy.

1). If at first you don't succeed, bungee jumping mightn't be for you.
2). The early bird may get the worm, but it's the second rat that gets the cheese.
Offline Ian555  
#4 Posted : 05 May 2012 05:05:20(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 18,670
Location: Scotland
Hi Jeremy,

Very nice Loco's. ThumpUp

Ian.

Offline 3rail4life  
#5 Posted : 05 May 2012 05:27:40(UTC)
3rail4life

United States   
Joined: 23/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 289
Location: Northern California
If they ever do it Jeremy.... I want it to be this one.

SP Cab Forward

Gordon
Offline steventrain  
#6 Posted : 05 May 2012 06:27:28(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 27,306
Location: Northern Ireland
Hi Gordon,

Where location did the photo taken?
Largest Marklinist Layout with Centrail station 2/Mobile station 2/60174 boosters/C-Tracks/K-Tracks/M-tracks/Favorites class BR01, BR23, BR50, E103, E120/Insider Club membership since 2004.
Offline Western Pacific  
#7 Posted : 05 May 2012 08:46:03(UTC)
Western Pacific

Sweden   
Joined: 19/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 770
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
Hi Gordon,

Where location did the photo taken?


I have the same question - where was the photo taken? but I also make a guess - Sacramento, CA?
Offline AshleyH  
#8 Posted : 05 May 2012 10:08:02(UTC)
AshleyH

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 597
Location: Bournemouth, Dorset
I agree it is a lovely looking loco.

It has been said that the cost of tooling the Big Boy was a contributing factor to Marklin's fall into bankruptcy.
So I do not think we will see anything this ambitious from Marklin again, at least in the current economic climate Sad
Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#9 Posted : 05 May 2012 10:44:53(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 875
Originally Posted by: AshleyH Go to Quoted Post
I agree it is a lovely looking loco.

It has been said that the cost of tooling the Big Boy was a contributing factor to Marklin's fall into bankruptcy.
So I do not think we will see anything this ambitious from Marklin again, at least in the current economic climate Sad


Ha!!! The list of contributing factors is probably endless.

Edited by user 05 May 2012 11:03:24(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#10 Posted : 05 May 2012 10:47:26(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 875
Originally Posted by: Jeremy Palmer Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GSRR Go to Quoted Post
I wish Jeremy. However I think we will have to settle for the AC version from MTH.

r/Thomas




Hi Thomas - Wonder whether anyone here has the Liliput cab fwd BR 05?



I don't have it myself but I have handled it and it is a very well made model, I don't know about the running qualities.
Offline 3rail4life  
#11 Posted : 05 May 2012 15:14:36(UTC)
3rail4life

United States   
Joined: 23/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 289
Location: Northern California
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
Hi Gordon,

Where location did the photo taken?


Hi Steven,

Western Pacific got it, The sole surviving SP Cab forward now resides in the beautiful California State Railroad Museum in Sacramento. The history of 4294 is described here: Southern Pacific 4294

As a young boy I remember seeing this on static display outdoors in Sacramento and it will always be my favorite American Locomotive. We are lucky to still have it, even if like the big boys, it will most likely never run again.

If Märklin should ever offer a model of the cab forward, I sure hope they choose the AC-12 4-8-8-2.

Gordon
Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 05 May 2012 15:38:44(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 9,193
Hi!
Originally Posted by: AshleyH Go to Quoted Post
It has been said that the cost of tooling the Big Boy was a contributing factor to Marklin's fall into bankruptcy.
Is there a source for this information? Who said that?

Regards
Tom
---
Happy customer of Roco, Piko, Fleischmann, ESU, Brawa, Liliput, Rivarossi, Lima, ... - and will happily continue to buy locos that run well out of the box. I'm also happy with 95% of my Märklin items, but will avoid a few cost-optimized items made 2011 or later.
Offline RayF  
#13 Posted : 05 May 2012 17:58:55(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,770
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: AshleyH Go to Quoted Post
It has been said that the cost of tooling the Big Boy was a contributing factor to Marklin's fall into bankruptcy.
Is there a source for this information? Who said that?



Do you have knowledge to the contrary?
Ray

Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline H0  
#14 Posted : 05 May 2012 18:17:26(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 9,193
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Do you have knowledge to the contrary?
No proof. Do I have to proof that a rumour is wrong?
I'd like to see where the information comes from and how substantial it is.

According to Märklin, the development of a new mould can cost up to 1 million Euros. Not sure if they were talking about the Big Boy, but I'm confident the development of the Big Boy did not cost more than 2 million Euros.

The losses of Märklin:
2005: 4.4 million Euros
2006: 3.8 million Euros
2007: 2.9 million Euros
2008: 26.7 million Euros

The Big Boy came in 2001/2 as an Insider model. Other rumours say that Insider models have the largest production runs of all Märklin models, so the new mould should pay back in the first run.

I cannot see how a 2001/2 new model (an investment of 1 million Euros (estimated)) should have broken their back in 2008.
Some say Z gauge killed 'em. Some say LGB killed 'em. Some say Trix killed 'em. Some say the money spent on external advisors killed 'em.
Now we hear it was the Big Boy that killed 'em. I cannot proof this is wrong - but I cannot believe it.
Regards
Tom
---
Happy customer of Roco, Piko, Fleischmann, ESU, Brawa, Liliput, Rivarossi, Lima, ... - and will happily continue to buy locos that run well out of the box. I'm also happy with 95% of my Märklin items, but will avoid a few cost-optimized items made 2011 or later.
Offline Western Pacific  
#15 Posted : 05 May 2012 18:20:55(UTC)
Western Pacific

Sweden   
Joined: 19/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 770
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
Originally Posted by: 3rail4life Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
Hi Gordon,

Where location did the photo taken?


Hi Steven,

Western Pacific got it, The sole surviving SP Cab forward now resides in the beautiful California State Railroad Museum in Sacramento. The history of 4294 is described here: Southern Pacific 4294

As a young boy I remember seeing this on static display outdoors in Sacramento and it will always be my favorite American Locomotive. We are lucky to still have it, even if like the big boys, it will most likely never run again.

If Märklin should ever offer a model of the cab forward, I sure hope they choose the AC-12 4-8-8-2.

Gordon



Thanks Gordon for confirming my guess,

I've been to the California State Railroad museum two or three times, the first most likely in 1984 and the most recent in 1997 with my then nearly six years old son. It is probably time for another visit, but for the time being I cannot say when the next trip to California will be. I can recommend the museum for all tourists going to Northern California and would it be that you have a travel companion who isn't so much into railways, then Old Sacramento is "just around the corner" with small shops and also nice opportunities for taking a walk.
Offline RayF  
#16 Posted : 05 May 2012 19:24:07(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,770
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Do you have knowledge to the contrary?
No proof. Do I have to proof that a rumour is wrong?
I'd like to see where the information comes from and how substantial it is.

According to Märklin, the development of a new mould can cost up to 1 million Euros. Not sure if they were talking about the Big Boy, but I'm confident the development of the Big Boy did not cost more than 2 million Euros.

The losses of Märklin:
2005: 4.4 million Euros
2006: 3.8 million Euros
2007: 2.9 million Euros
2008: 26.7 million Euros

The Big Boy came in 2001/2 as an Insider model. Other rumours say that Insider models have the largest production runs of all Märklin models, so the new mould should pay back in the first run.

I cannot see how a 2001/2 new model (an investment of 1 million Euros (estimated)) should have broken their back in 2008.
Some say Z gauge killed 'em. Some say LGB killed 'em. Some say Trix killed 'em. Some say the money spent on external advisors killed 'em.
Now we hear it was the Big Boy that killed 'em. I cannot proof this is wrong - but I cannot believe it.


Thanks Tom,

It just sounded like you were very sure that the statement was wrong. I wondered if you would tell us what you know.
Ray

Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline EMD_GP7  
#17 Posted : 05 May 2012 20:01:54(UTC)
EMD_GP7


Joined: 22/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 106
Location: U.K. Midlands
Hi all,
Yesterday I ordered AC-12 #4294 from my usual supplier in the States.
This is by Broadway Limited not MTH and is a Brass Hybrid model with sound and synchro smoke and includes the sound of the directly exhausting air pumps which were a distinctive feature of the later locos.
Unfortunatley they are only available for DCC 2-rail RP25 wheel standards.
The downside is that delivery will not be until next year as Broadway deliveries can be long for these brass models.
I am still waiting for a Union Pacific 4-12-2 brass hybrid which is due next January.
Regards, Colin.
Offline 3rail4life  
#18 Posted : 06 May 2012 19:46:31(UTC)
3rail4life

United States   
Joined: 23/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 289
Location: Northern California
Those are some pretty awesome locomotives, you will be receiving Colin, be sure to post some pics when they are delivered.

Gordon
Offline jeehring  
#19 Posted : 06 May 2012 22:07:38(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,748
Location: ,
Originally Posted by: AshleyH Go to Quoted Post
I agree it is a lovely looking loco.

It has been said that the cost of tooling the Big Boy was a contributing factor to Marklin's fall into bankruptcy.
Sad


oh no , Excuses me Ashley , it's exactly the opposite : the Big Boy has been a great success , and very profitable for Marklin . I'm sure about it, I knew it from a serious source of info....

It's time now to know the real thing : it was not a "full" bankruptcy...but a classical situation.
As you know banks have access to the accounts of a company. There was a long term open credit line for Marklin, as they were watching the" strange" management of kingsbridge the banks agreed to extend the use of the overdraft provided Kingsbridge stands surety for a part of the sum .....and Kingsbridge refused.
When I say" strange" ,it's not only because of my poor English : I'm just polite.....

Edited by user 06 May 2012 23:31:55(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline AshleyH  
#20 Posted : 06 May 2012 22:25:30(UTC)
AshleyH

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 597
Location: Bournemouth, Dorset
I was not wishing to be controversial or start an argument. I was merely told, a few years ago now and well before the insolvency, that the Big Boy tooling had cost over one million euros, and it was unlikely that such an investment would be made again. I think I asked about the likelihood of a Union Pacific Challenger, kind of Big Boy's little brother.

Given that, currently, Marklin have abandoned Sinus motors and piezo pantographs etc, it seems that it is unlikely that such a project would be undertaken in the next few years surely? And that is all I was trying to say.
Offline jeehring  
#21 Posted : 06 May 2012 22:37:56(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,748
Location: ,
...please read my message, I completed it after your posting...

Yes, today Marklin must repay their debts , so they have to be a profitable Cie...

( I'm not wishing controversy or any argument or any discussion , me too.I realize my messages may look abrupt : it's only because of my basic English....and the final results of the French elections has unnerved me , for sure Wink ..Cursing ...).

Edited by user 06 May 2012 23:21:11(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline H0  
#22 Posted : 07 May 2012 09:59:22(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 9,193
Originally Posted by: AshleyH Go to Quoted Post
I was merely told, a few years ago now and well before the insolvency, that the Big Boy tooling had cost over one million euros, and it was unlikely that such an investment would be made again.
That sounds much different than your earlier statement.
In their current situation they can only develop new molds that amortize within few years.

A UP Challenger won't be much cheaper than a Big Boy, but will sell fewer units (half as much as the Big Boy or less IMHO).
That cab forward loco could be even less attractive.

Märklin are strong in the Netherlands, Germany, and Switzerland.
American models will work only if they appeal to European customers, too.

I don't have inside information, I don't know if the VT 10.5 Senator was a success. German era III, Märklin's main stream, but only a few years in service and only two different liveries possible.
Similar situation for this year's class 403/404 train. They try it again, so I presume the Senator paid back its investment.
Did the V 300 pay back? Will a V 320 or an E 95 pay back? I don't know.
We'll see if they'll come ...
Regards
Tom
---
Happy customer of Roco, Piko, Fleischmann, ESU, Brawa, Liliput, Rivarossi, Lima, ... - and will happily continue to buy locos that run well out of the box. I'm also happy with 95% of my Märklin items, but will avoid a few cost-optimized items made 2011 or later.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline jvuye  
#23 Posted : 07 May 2012 15:58:37(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,755
Location: South Western France
I agree with Tom.

Right now Märklin is seemingly handling the whole investment situation wisely: a reasonable amount of new molds and re-use and re-paint of items produced with older tooling.
An example for the latter: the re-issuance of the tin-plate coaches and locos from the 1950's and 60's is IMHO a pretty smart move and I heard that it sells very well!

On the other hand I have noticed that the equipment (locos especially) is showing (details but important nonetheless..) improvements in quality.
I took the time to analyze my E17 Insider loco, measured the mechanism and assembly tolerance, gears' surface finish and accuracy and I must say I am *very* impressed.

Same for my two RE 4/4 I of recent purchase....with a 3rd one on the way!Wub

I also had a chance to scrutinize one of my friends' ET 491 Triebwagen, with the same observations, but there I was even more impressed with the quality of the body assembly.
For example the body itself has filigrane pillars, that match perfectly level with the transparent plastic windows insert.
Not a flaw, not a bend.
Everything is level...perfect!ThumpUp

Even the "nostalgia" tin-plate coaches of last look better and have much sharper edges and markings than the "originals"

Are we seeing the best build Märklin locos/ cars/ coaches/ ever?

To me that is even more important than "pure innovation"

That has definitely been an incentive to open my wallet again for Märklin purchases.

If everyone sees that as I do, it may be Märklin's best way to insure long-term survival...no?

And yes...incidentally, I'd love to see a streamlined 05 003 cab forward made with the same quality: I'll buy one right away!!BigGrin

Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learning to be better and had great success!
Offline Webmaster  
#24 Posted : 07 May 2012 18:41:03(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 9,511
I too would buy a 05 0003 cab forward immediately...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Webmaster
Offline kbvrod  
#25 Posted : 07 May 2012 19:05:02(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,596
Location: Beverly, MA
Hi all,
If I may comment?Smile
Märklin and Fleischmann have a long history of producing US prototypes.That said,when Märklin came out with the BB as an Insider/exclusive model,my first thought is that they would(and have) introduced other BB models.Even if or they did recoup that investment it would make sense to continue to do so.There are certain locomotives that capture the hearts of model railroaders all over the world,.........
It also didn't hurt that the few BB's on the market,as far as running qualities,stunk!Tongue
Even the Trix version was gobbled up by US modelers who wanted a highly detailed model that ran well and pulled a freight train worthy of it's name.

As side note: on this weekend layout tour,a M BB pulled 115 coal wagens with ease ThumpUp Woot

Dr D
Offline steventrain  
#26 Posted : 07 May 2012 19:10:29(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 27,306
Location: Northern Ireland
Originally Posted by: 3rail4life Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
Hi Gordon,

Where location did the photo taken?


Hi Steven,

Western Pacific got it, The sole surviving SP Cab forward now resides in the beautiful California State Railroad Museum in Sacramento. The history of 4294 is described here: Southern Pacific 4294

As a young boy I remember seeing this on static display outdoors in Sacramento and it will always be my favorite American Locomotive. We are lucky to still have it, even if like the big boys, it will most likely never run again.

If Märklin should ever offer a model of the cab forward, I sure hope they choose the AC-12 4-8-8-2.

Gordon


Thanks, Gordon.
Largest Marklinist Layout with Centrail station 2/Mobile station 2/60174 boosters/C-Tracks/K-Tracks/M-tracks/Favorites class BR01, BR23, BR50, E103, E120/Insider Club membership since 2004.
Offline EMD_GP7  
#27 Posted : 15 May 2012 10:21:36(UTC)
EMD_GP7


Joined: 22/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 106
Location: U.K. Midlands
I just found this on an American Forum that I use.
It may be interesting for Cab Forward fans.

http://youtu.be/n_ErZ5SgkVw

An easy way for M to produce an American locomotive at minimum cost would be to produce a GP9 loco.
These are developments of the F7 already produced but have the "Road Switcher" style body using the F7 bogies and engines.
There were 3,444 locos produced for many roads and lasted a very long time and are still in use in some areas.

UserPostedImage

These are a pair that I own and are by Athearn.
For Marklin users they would compliment the other locos as they were used in conjunction with F7s on many roads and even Big Boys on UP. !
The loco on the right is a "B" unit which was only used by UP and Pennsylvania railroads and 165 were built.
This loco is a modified Athearn with a resin kit for the "cabless" section.
A Trix version would be nice but may have trouble selling in the States where many models of GP9 and the earlier GP7 exist, many with sound.

BUT a Trix DCC RP25 "B" unit would sell because no manufacturer makes a RTR version and UP and Pennsy are very popular roads to model.

Regards, Colin..
Offline drbob01  
#28 Posted : 21 June 2012 18:25:35(UTC)
drbob01


Joined: 26/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 60
Location: USA
I'm happy to see that I'm not the only one who loves Marklin HO but would like more US type Locos and rolling stock!
Thanks for this great forum!
Offline nevw  
#29 Posted : 22 June 2012 02:38:04(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,617
Location: Strathpine QLD
Originally Posted by: drbob01 Go to Quoted Post
I'm happy to see that I'm not the only one who loves Marklin HO but would like more US type Locos and rolling stock!
Thanks for this great forum!


Have a look at the MTH WEb Site or AJCkids Site.

LOts of Marklin Suitable US Steamers and Diesels.

Nev
wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now have a new shiny tin Hip that is badly in Need of Repair
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline river6109  
#30 Posted : 22 June 2012 03:19:52(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 10,766
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
I've looked at this loco before but I can't see Märklin ever producing it, it is already all metal so what can Märklin do to improve the impossible, add a slider.

Roco did the Y3 for lifeline only because they had a fixed order.

Liliput cab forward would be nice, so Märklin may have a chassis already for it and it only needs a different housing but the current loco production is as Ray mentioned a revamping of older or existing molds and classes.

While the orders are coming in and the profits are rising, it will create confidence in the toy market for Märklin enthusiasts, collectors and fans who can't say no.
Having said that, any fall or wrong economic forecast or a drop in the international market economic growth could result in abandoning any new models being produced and the current climat is to fragile to go forward.
For instance I've looked recently at older Austrian Steam and electric locos from a vast selections of classes and this most probably goes into other countries which haven't been produced by Märklin or other manufacturers,
mentioned the Y3 from Roco, this loco is now being produced by another manufacturer with rubbertyres and a full metal construction including sound.
timing would be another factor as the trend shifts from one loco to another, so by the time is actually coming onto the market the francy attack "must have" may has passed the usebuy date and this is current in England with property developers can't sell new house developments.

This forum should establish a "rent a loco" account whereas members can rent a favoured loco for a period of time and some of the proceedings go to the website's webmaster, "webmaster account" to keep this forum going.
to give you some indications my locos are available for a 3 month rental contract asking A$ 25.00/hour with a A$ 500.00 security deposit and most of you would say this is ridiculous but it may give you an inside what the costs are a.) to protect your investment, b.) to earn from your investment, c.) and to look ahead to be able to afford more locos without going over the budget and all of this is based on wishful thinking.BigGrin



John

Edited by user 22 June 2012 03:38:36(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

http://www.youtube.com/river6109
http://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline SINCrazee  
#31 Posted : 25 June 2012 03:37:55(UTC)
SINCrazee


Joined: 21/07/2010(UTC)
Posts: 309
Location: SIN , ICAO: WSSS
No Jeremy.. I rather see Märklin producing the Rocky Mountaineer set instead.
UserPostedImage
Or Maybe
UserPostedImage
C-track carpetbahn, R1 ,R2,R3 with MS2 and a CS2 plus Marklin and HAG trains..
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